more gem stuff

February 12, 2001

Dear Pranavji,

We all have different perspectives. I consider things in this way.... we should

not deny the unique, mystic beauty and utility of every aspect of the creation

by constantly trying to change it . Nature gives us citrine and nature gives us

amethyst. They are different. That's how they were made. So why try to make one

into the other? Do we actually have that power? Have we "made" citrine by

burning amethyst? I don't think so.

Why is it, do you think, we are unhappy with natures gifts and relentlessly

want to modify them and, "make them better"? If you want citrine, get one, wear

it, be happy. Why burn an amethyst and CALL it a citrine? Does it have anything

to do with monetary gain, or do you think human beings can make a more potent

gem and infuse it with more power, and do a better job than God?

And do you think they can really be the same? Is the water I drink the same as

the urine I excrete? Do they have the same characterisics? Urine is only water

transformed, but I doubt you will want to drink it.

Every mineral, plant, drop of water, planet, and bit of dust has it's own

innate qualities. Mankinds' disease is that, as we are not happy with the life

we have recieved as a result of our own past acts and want to change it, we want

to change the fabric of everything around us to suit our whimsical likes and

dislikes. Better to let go, surrender to the destiny that we have created and

depend exclusively on the causeless grace of the divine to carry what we lack

and be happy with that.

Burning stones in a vain attempt to make them something they are not, or were

ever intended to be, is not the solution. Such stones have power only in the

imagination of the wearer.

With regards,

Sarva

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February 12, 2001

Try analysing this :

Ahmedabad has india's most prosperous jewellers and gem-stone dealers and

experts. They built houses, had all kinds of gems, but could not survive the

quake.

A person has all the money. He can buy anything in the world. Wears number

of gems on both hands, but cant escape deeds of his karma and still suffers

and all his money cannot off-balance his times of trouble.

Hindujas, leading indian businessman, settled in London, has all the money

at his command, and wears gems too, you can notice in T.V. videos on him.

But still he is undergoing troubles with law agencies since the Bofors

scandal in India broke out.

Chandraswami, the leading God man (atleast thats how many recognise him,

including high and mighty) had to face troubles despite wearing number of

gems and rudrakshas on his body.

IF KARMAS CAN BE BOUGHT OR SUBVERTED WITH THE HELP OF GEMS AND KAVACHAS AND

OTHER REMEDIAL MEASURES, THEN WHAT LORD SAYS IN GITA IS FALSE AND UNTRUE,

WHICH UNFORTUNATELY IS NOT.

PS : And friends, I am not trying to preach anyone on the list, I am not

trying to show off my knowledge, I am not trying to be arrogant, I am not

trying to say that if anyone uses these gems then he is not spiritual, I am

not trying to say that Gems are of no use (they do have their therapeutic

and medicinal use in ayurveda and other systems), I am only trying to put

the matters straight, according to my limited knowledge.

Further, if anyone on the list does not like my above post, I request him to

just forget it, and the ones who like it may just try and think and start

acting on this.

with best wishes to all,

Manoj

_______________________

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February 14, 2001

Hi Manoj:

Very well said. I agree 101% of what you have written. I totally,

totally agree with you. You cannot escape Karma, gems or no gems.

Shamim

>>> "Manoj Pathak" <manojpathak 02/13/01 12:53AM >>>

Try analysing this :

Ahmedabad has india's most prosperous jewellers and gem-stone dealers

and

experts. They built houses, had all kinds of gems, but could not

survive the

quake.

A person has all the money. He can buy anything in the world. Wears

number

of gems on both hands, but cant escape deeds of his karma and still

suffers

and all his money cannot off-balance his times of trouble.

Hindujas, leading indian businessman, settled in London, has all the

money

at his command, and wears gems too, you can notice in T.V. videos on

him.

But still he is undergoing troubles with law agencies since the Bofors

scandal in India broke out.

Chandraswami, the leading God man (atleast thats how many recognise

him,

including high and mighty) had to face troubles despite wearing number

of

gems and rudrakshas on his body.

IF KARMAS CAN BE BOUGHT OR SUBVERTED WITH THE HELP OF GEMS AND KAVACHAS

AND

OTHER REMEDIAL MEASURES, THEN WHAT LORD SAYS IN GITA IS FALSE AND

UNTRUE,

WHICH UNFORTUNATELY IS NOT.

PS : And friends, I am not trying to preach anyone on the list, I am

not

trying to show off my knowledge, I am not trying to be arrogant, I am

not

trying to say that if anyone uses these gems then he is not spiritual,

I am

not trying to say that Gems are of no use (they do have their

therapeutic

and medicinal use in ayurveda and other systems), I am only trying to

put

the matters straight, according to my limited knowledge.

Further, if anyone on the list does not like my above post, I request

him to

just forget it, and the ones who like it may just try and think and

start

acting on this.

with best wishes to all,

Manoj

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com.

gjlist-

February 14, 2001

Om Krishnaaya Namah

Hi Wendy,

> inference is that you and other Krishna devotees (alone) are engaged in

> worship of the "Divine"...this is not only untrue, but somewhat arrogant

> don't you think.

>

Sorry for hurting your feelings! I don't know where I give this impression

though. What I said after making my point about mantras was that I worship

"my Lord, Sri Krishna". By "My", I wasn't saying "mine, mine and only mine,

so there!" I was trying to say that for me personally Lord Krishna is my

Ishta, and therefore it is His form as Krishna that I particularly have a

close link with. The point I was making was that while we often advise

people to spend lots and lots of time worshipping demigods for material

benefits, an astrologers duty is also to gently guide the native to the path

on the way to God ("By all the Vedas I am to be known" - Sri Krishna in the

Bhagavad Gita). Chanting planetary mantras or tantrik mantras for material

benefits and siddhi's ignores this side, and the results are lost at death.

On the other hand, there are more spiritual remedies which worship God

directly, which even when chanted with material motivations may eventually

guide the worshipper to God (e.g. Vishnu Sahastranaam, Narayana Kavacha,

Narasimha Kavacha etc. all of which are powerful and worship God directly.)

So I have no problem with whether you worship Christ or Krishna. Sincerely

following Jesus also will lead one to Divinity. All I'm saying is that when

I say "my Krishna", don't take me as saying you don't worship anything

genuinely divine, and only I do. All I mean is that FOR ME, Krishna is the

original, Supreme Lord, based on my study of Vedic scripture. If, however

the problem was more directly that fact that Krishna worshippers take

Krishna to be God, well then you're gonna have to tell Him yourself that

it's arrogant, 'cos He says it very clearly in the Bhagavad Gita, that book

that we both love so much :-)

>

> Most astrologers (on this list) are "doing their duty" as laid down by

> Krishna himself and are (compassionately) offering astrological advice and

> Yes! remedies (when necessary) to ease the suffering of their fellow men.

> This, to my mind, is righteous service/action and certainly in accord with

> the teachings of Krishna.

It's good that astrologers offer remedies to clients. Parashara himself

offers lots towards to end of BPHS, and lots throughout the Dasha results

chapters. Whether or not spending hours chanting materially beneficial

mantras is in accordance with Krishna's teachnings or not is debatable

however. IMHO, he says it works, but it's better to approach Him directly.

So let's just agree to disagree.

>

> I personally have a copy of the Gita close at hand always (it's the joy of

> my soul)...a great comfort that guides me gently back to meditation when I

> find myself getting too caught up in outer activity...it's there always to

> remind me of my Self!

Again, apologies for any offence caused,

Pursottam

February 14, 2001

All is well Pursottam :-)

Unfortunately religion can become overly partisan (sectarian)...this is what

I see as undesirable as this is when we start arguing about the difference

instead of rejoicing in the sameness.

Best Wishes

Wendy

Pursottam [pursottam_dabasia]

Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:34 AM

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RE: [gjlist] more gem stuff