Classical references to writing: 2nd vs. 3rd

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Alex:

 

Thanks for pulling up those BPHS references. I'll check them out. 5th eh?

 

Here are a few I found while thumbing through at random.

 

Phaladeepika 17-19 (p. 109) states that " should Venus occupy the 2nd at

birth, the native will be a poet and will enjoy riches of various kinds.

If Venus be in the 3rd house at birth, the native will be miserly,

unpopular, devoid of wealth, happiness and wife." This seems like an

endorsement of the 2nd house hypothesis although one cannot rule out the

notion that the karaka spoils the house it governs, in the manner of

Jupiter being bad for children in the 5th.

 

11-13 p 106 "If Mercury happens to occupy the 2nd house at birth the

person his livelihood by his intelligence. He will compose poems and will

be cultured in speech. If Mercury be in the 3rd house, the person born

will be brave but will have a medium span of life. He will have good

brothers and sisters, but he will suffer from fatigue nad be dejected."

Another vote for the 2nd house ruling writing here.

 

16-6 p 180 "If the lord of the 2nd is connected with the Moon, the person

concerned will be clever in some kinds of arts." That is the only

reference of any planet with the second lord. There are relevant

references to arts of any kind with the 3rd house.

 

 

The BPHS exposition of "Effects of the 2nd house" (Sharma) contains no

references to writing or the arts at all. It's mostly about wealth.

"Effects of the 3rd house" also contains no references.

 

"Effects of the Bhava lords" 26-29 p 290 discusses the 3rd lord in the 5th

house. The translation makes no mention of anything significant "blessed

with sons and be worthy" however, Sharma, in his commentary makes the link

between the 3rd and the 5th: "if the 3rd house is related the 5th house,

the native is accomplished in Physics and Engineering education because

these branches of learning are performed by hands and mind and in this

combination these two very things have conjunction at one place. Drawing,

painting, and education in arms and weapons are also the result in this

combination." No writing, and even these references aren't really

references; they're Sharma's opinions, not Parashara's.

 

So not a lot here. Maybe the classics are not where it's at on this

question. Maybe we should look at a few charts of writers and artists and

have it out.

 

Chris

 

At 07:44 PM 1/25/01 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello,

>

>>From what I've read in the classics the second house rules the speech

>and truthfullness, whereas the third rules the throat and sound of

>voice.

>

>As for writing the 5th house is that of scholarship. I have only

>found two references to authorship in BPHS.

>

>Chapter 26 slokas 57 and 59

>

>It says that if the 5th lord is in the 9th or 11th the person will be

>a great author. Other than that I have found nothing. Also for

>musical ability I only found one reference to the 4th house. Chapter

>17 sloka 3.

>

>However I know that musical instruments skill as well as singing

>voice is also realted to the third.

>

>The third is the house of communication, such as books, and is

>related to the performing arts. I am also interested in this topic,

>and would be very eager to read any of the classics that deal with

>the communicative aspect of the third. Whether they are Eastern or

>Western classics. I would be glad to receive some direction.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Alex

>

>

>

>gjlist , Christopher Kevill <ckevill@i...> wrote:

>> Andrew:

>>

>> >> I thought speaking was always attributed to the 2nd house (eg.

>afflicted

>> >> 2nd houses indicate bad language and telling falsehoods). Many

>jyotishis

>> >> also put writing in the 2nd as well as it is another form of

>speaking.

>> >The

>> >> 3rd as a writing house seems more connected with western

>astrology.

>> >> Myself, I am agnostic on the question and often take both houses

>into

>> >> consideration. So much for precise analyses!

>> >>

>> > Yes this is all true about speech as the second house rules

>the mouth

>> >and throat but the 3rd house rules the nervous system and the

>mental

>> >inclination. The 3rd house also governs writing through the

>movement of the

>> >arms. I think the 3rd house governs the mode or nature of

>expression of the

>> >speech. For example, my speech has the nature of Mars in

>expression in that

>> >it is sharp, cutting and often cynical. I can literally wound and

>cut with

>> >my speech as shown by Mars the 3rd lord. Jupiter as lord of the

>2nd house

>> >would show my speaking organs are well formed and I have a clear

>and healthy

>> >voice.

>>

>> Could be true, but it's just as likely that 2L Jupiter is conjunct

>Mars and

>> THAT is the source of your harsh speech. The fact that Jupiter is

>you 2L

>> is not that important; since that's tantamount to sayin that

>Aquarius

>> rising people are incapable of harsh speech. As if! The other

>important

>> -- probably most important thing -- is that Rahu aspects (9H!) your

>2nd

>> house cusp within a degree, irrespective of whether you use equal

>house

>> cusps or sripati cusps. Also if we take chandra lagna, then

>Mercury is

>> your 2L, then we have the Mars influence all over again, only way

>more

>> strongly since it is less than one degree from exact conjunction.

>If

>> speech was governed by the 3H, then its lord Mars wouldn't

>influence it,

>> Mercury would -- the planet it conjuncts. You would not be harsh in

>> speech, you would be more purely analytical.

>>

>> It is a bit like the 4th and 5th house ruling the heart. The 4th

>> >rules the emotional and watery aspect and the 5th the muscular and

>fiery

>> >aspect. This shows why the 5th is concerned with love affairs and

>other

>> >things that make the heart pump faster. The 9th and 10th reveal

>the father

>> >and status given by him. If you look at George Bush Jnrs chart,

>his 10th

>> >lord, or lord of the house of the face of the father is Mars. Mars

>is in his

>> >2nd house showing he has the same crusty face as the father. My

>5th lord of

>> >the house of speech of the mother is Mercury. The affliction of

>Mars on

>> >Mercury show why my Mother has very fierce speech and swears like a

>> >shearer.Your point about Jupiter with Mars is relevent to my

>speech also.

>> >All houses are interelated in these ways. We must also look to

>Mercury and

>> >its placement as well. I think basically the 2nd house does show

>your

>> >ability to speak and the 3rd shows the nature of the expression of

>this

>> >speech. Make sense??

>>

>> Well, no, it doesn't to me. It ought to be all contained within

>one house,

>> the 2nd. Now please be clear that I could care less about agreeing

>with

>> the classics for its own sake. My only point is that until and

>unless you

>> can clearly show a reason to deviate from them, then we should

>stick with

>> them. And they say that the 2nd has to do with speech, both

>ability and

>> style. (No chapter and verse here) Writing may well be shared

>with the

>> 3rd or just the 3rd. I haven't satisfied my own curiosity on the

>subject.

>> Many writers (Frawley, Houck, Braha) have linked writing with the

>2nd, so

>> that's the default for me until i can find something that shows

>otherwise.

>> I have sometimes, but I haven't seen enough charts yet to make it

>stick.

>>

>>

>>

>> >

>> >>What role does Cancer play here? I gather the fact that it is

>Rahu is

>> >> immaterial; the point is that it is your yogi planet.

>> >

>> >Well firstly Cancer is the sign of the emotions and feelings of

>the heart. I

>> >speak from the heart. Planets in the birth yogi's nakshatra are

>boosted for

>> >the good. This Rahu is is the nakshatra of Ashleesha a sharp and

>dreadful

>> >star which is symbolised by the coiled serpent of the Kundalini.

>This gives

>> >the potency to the speech and expression. Ashleesha is ruled by

>Mercury the

>> >karaka of speech and my 5th and 8th lords. Mars and Mercury fall

>in the

>> >nakshatra of Rahu who is in the sign of the Moon and both aspect

>the Moon in

>> >the 7th house. The Moon as the dispositor of Rahu is in the

>nakshatra of

>> >Magha ruled by Ketu. Ketu is in the 12th house with Saturn who is

>dispositor

>> >of all three planets in the lagna. Both Saturn and Ketu fall in

>the nakshara

>> >of the Moon, Shravana. Shravana is said to give knowledge of the

>Vedas and

>> >the ability and inclination to disregard the material world. It is

>a

>> >nakshatra of service to humanity.

>>

>> How lovely for you! :-)

>>

>> My Saturn is final dispositor of all the

>> >planets in the12th house and also aspects my atmakaraka of Venus

>to within 1

>> >degree. Gurudeva has his Moon in Shravana as does David Frawley

>who is also

>> >a devotee of Gurudeva like me. I'm actually getting to the stage

>where I

>> >couldn't give a toss about anything and I really look forward to

>going to

>> >sleep at night where I have no connection with the physical world

>anymore.

>>

>>

>> >

>> >What I find very interesting also is the connection between charts

>of people

>> >who connect together like us on the net. Your chart and my chart

>are well

>> >matched as is mine with Robert Koch's. My Pundit has Moon, Sun and

>Jupiter

>> >in Aquarius in my lagna and he has exalted Venus like me also.

>>

>> This is good stuff and I agree -- it's hugely important as far as

>relating

>> to others, learning from others, and it even goes down to what

>writers you

>> like. My favourite writer right now is Jack Kerouac (never read

>him as a

>> kid), and when I cast his chart, I found his Asc-Moon conjunction(@

>21Leo)

>> were less than one degree from my Venus! Amazing stuff, I'm sure

>it's like

>> that with all of our favourite artists. I'd like to look at this

>more,

>> however, and see which planets are key for say, the teacher-student

>> relationship (ie. who can we learn from). My early sense is if we

>are to

>> learn from someone, their Jupiter, 5L and 9L should make contact

>with key

>> points in your horoscope, esp 5L, 9L, Asc and Sun. If it is a

>pleasant

>> exchange of ideas and questions, then the more contacts the better

>with

>> Sun, Moon and Venus, lagnesh. Jupiter seems key to me, as it

>represents

>> jnana/wisdom. Also Jupiter's navamsha positions should be

>included, as it

>> is a slow moving planet.

>>

>> Yogaswami was

>> >born with the Moon in Aquarius and he is my Pundits Guru.

>Subramuniyaswami

>> >or Gurudeva who is the disciple of Yogaswami was born with Jupiter

>in

>> >Aquarius within 1 degree of my Jupiter and his Moon falls on the

>same degree

>> >as my lagna lord. My lagna lord falls in his lagna of Capricorn and

>> >Gurudeva's lagna lord falls in the lagna of Pundits in Scorpio. If

>I

>> >remember correctly David Frawley also has Jupiter in Aquarius and

>the Moon

>> >in Capricorn. Are all these aspects coincidence or not.

>>

>> No way. You're lucky you've found a link in the chain that fits

>you.

>>

>> I do know I've read

>> >everything Gurudeva has written and everything David has written

>also.

>> >Pundit claims he converses with both Yogaswami and Gurudeva

>everynight when

>> >he is asleep. All I know is I feel connected to all these people

>and the

>> >knowlege they have. I also believe this has been going on long

>before the

>> >19th of March 1962 when I was born. A rational man like yourself

>may well

>> >think I'm insane...

>>

>> Nayh, you're just "blessed" with enlightement. I however remain

>stubbornly

>> fixed in the mundane world.

>>

>> >> >

>> >>

>> > This is an interesting take on things, but I don't know if I

>agree. Lack

>> >> of ambition should be seen through stilted Mars and a weak 3rd

>house.

>> >

>> >For ambition you also need a well placed and prominent Sun

>indicating strong

>> >self belief and the need to be shine in life. My Sun is in the

>12th sign in

>> >the nakshatra of Saturn and also aspected by Saturn. I have no

>real sense of

>> >self and couldn't give a rats arse anymore about what others think

>about me.

>>

>> I doubt things are that simple. My Sun is in Leo in the 8th and

>exalted in

>> Aries in navamsha. There are a few afflictions here and there but

>they're

>> not superclose. And I have little sense of self as well, no

>ambition, and

>> no "will to power" at all. I'm meek and mild, retiring by nature,

>and find

>> people with egos repugnant. I'm really a wimp so you'd have no

>problem

>> ripping my arms off! This whole ambition sounds more like a

>composite

>> picture of a variety of factors, rather than just one or two. See,

>my 3L

>> is Jupiter which is in the 12th conjunct Saturn (ahem!). Sounds

>better

>> than the weak Sun argument.

>>

>> > I

>> >> know it's hard to say your Mars is weak, but it is seriously

>afflicted

>> >> because of the near-exact conjunction of 8L Mercury.

>> >

>> >No planet in the lagna is weak! Mars is 10th lord in the lagna.

>>

>> That's good for your profile and possible career success, that's not

>> specifically about ambition per se, nor other Martian matters.

>>

>> In navamsha

>> >Mars is lagna lord exalted in the 10th house with Rahu. Jupiter

>and Mercury

>> >have directional strength in the lagna. Any more cracks about my

>weak Mars

>> >and I'll reach through cyberspace and rip your F***** arms

>off..........

>> >(only kidding). Make no mistake I'm a red hot Mars man. Mercury is

>> >afflicted. Mercury has taken on the energy of this strong Mars.

>>

>> But Mars' strength must be judged by looking at what contacts it

>has, not

>> just where it is. How do you explain all the trouble you've had

>with the

>> cops, the fights, the temper, and all that great Andrew stuff?

>It's not

>> typical Mars behaviour. It sounds like Mars run haywire a bit, an

>> afflicted Mars in other words. The most glaring affliction is its

>> supertight conjunction with the most malefic lord of he bunch, the

>8th. It

>> may well give you great strength and sexual prowess, but it

>overloads

>> sometimes too. Blame it on Mercury, man! Sure Mercury's damaged

>by Mars'

>> natural qualities but Mercury more than returns the favour by

>virtue of its

>> nasty house rulership.

>>

>> your Sun-Venus in Leo buddy,

>>

>> Chris

>

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>gjlist-

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