OUTER PLANETS

[Guest guest]

Dear Andrew

 

<<The ancient astrologer had to erect charts by hand which took considerable

skill and time. We are lucky in the fact we have computers and access to

tremendous amounts of birth data and events that can be verified. This puts

us at a big advantage and we should endevour to put up new ideas and

concepts for scrutiny without fear of being ridiculed or attacked. We must

not become "fundamentalist astrologers" who attack anybody whose views

differ from ours or the ancient texts.

 

I think conservative thinking in some areas of Vedic astrology has led to a

denial of the outer planets and their usefulness in interpreting a chart

also. In the ancient texts there was no mention of electricity, computers or

aeroplanes but none of us would deny their use or effectiveness. Having

never been a western astrologer I have no interest in hijacking any part of

Vedic astrology or adding parts of one system to the other, but the effects

of the outer planets are one thing I think we all should look at more

carefully. I have already mentioned in other postings my thoughts about

Uranus being the planet of astrology and the third eye chakra and Neptune

relating to mystics and the crown chakra. This is very evident if you look

at the charts of people like Yogaswami, Gurudeva and the Dalai Lama. The

very position of their Neptune in particular would indicate it's importance.

 

I'm not suggesting you can't do a reading without these planets but you

either ignore them or try to interpret them and I prefer to look at them

objectively. My old teacher has decades of experience in astrology and is a

very traditional Hindu. He insists the outer planets are very important and

should never be ignored. He came to this conclusion after observing their

effects over many years simply by seeing them in charts. I would think we

should all embrace his open mindedness as well.

 

As a last comment on the nodes it would seem there has always been two camps

with some saying they are "shadow" grahas and therefore cannot cast aspects

and others who think they cast a trine aspect. My advice to everybody is to

find out yourself which is right.>>

 

I agree with you in almost evrything you mention in this quotation. One of my

jyotish gurus is very old and have lived in caves in the Himalayas for many

years in austerities, meditation & devotion to the Lord. Before i met him about

7 years ago & too was not taking the outer planets into consideration "cos they

are not mentioned in the books on vedic astrology that so far i had read". Once

i saw his talents, i did not argue with him, i just followed. He was amused by

my fundamentalist attitude towards certain areas & he destroyed that illusion.

He was amused as well by the fact that people in the West pay to be frightened

(horror movies, amusement ? places). He told me that he can frighten people for

free. Regarding the outer planets he told me that they are very important and

he gave me examples of their influence in transits over natal planets and on

whole generations. Once i studied his guidance it made a lot of sense to me.

We know that we only have in Engish about 1% of the books ever written about

vedic astrology, i will not be surprised if in the near future we find vedic

astrology books giving the importance of the outer planets. BTW, he is in his

90's now and he is more fit than me both physical or mental. I am just waiting

for the next conjunction of mars with Pluto in a few weeks time to confirm

certain of my observations. Also, this year Uranus will go into Aquarius for

few months before going retro into Capricorn but later on it will transit its

own sign for many years. Then, when Uranus is in Pisces and Neptune is in

Aquarius, i guess that they will make a kind of Parivarthana yoga. Also, we

have Pluto in Scorpio now but going into Sagittarius in about 5 years time.

Pluto is the residence of Lord Yamaraj, the superintendent of death just like

Osiris in Egypt. In India, Yamaraj is known as the lord of Yama (death) but

also as Dharmaraj, lord of dharma (virtue, duty, religion). In traditional

astrology, Scorpio is the sign of death (the 8th sign) and Sagittarius is the

sign of dharma (9th house/sign). In traditional astrology, Scorpio is the sign

of Pluto. So we can say that Pluto in Scorpio is strong enough to bring drastic

changes into humanity by destroying mental conditionmenst and habits. Also, we

can say that Pluto in transit from Scorpio into Sagittarius, suffers a

transformation (Pluto is the planet of transformation) and from being Yamaraja

becomes Dharmaraja. I ask myself if Pluto in Sagittarius is going to clean up

the corruption in present religions. And Egyptians used to consider the passage

of the soul across the Milky Way, between Scorpio & Sagittarius.

 

Also, now that we can talk about the outer planets, i am observing the

association of Saturn and jupiter in Taurus opposite to Pluto. This

configuration does not happen in the past 2000 years & i feel that it is very

important. To me what is happening in America, the present most powerful nation

on earth, is related mainly to this unique configuration which we are not going

to see for perhaps another 2 or 3,000 years from now. Then we have the last

conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in Aries (May 2000) which we will not see it

again for another 800 or 900 years. We as astrologers are supposed to study

the sky for planetary configurations and to give guidance to people in general.

If the medicine works, who cares for the rules? Jesus Christ was condemned for

healing on Saturdays but he did not care. I love to use my intuition. BTW, i

use the mean Rahu as instructed by the great Parasara but everyone is free to

learn by their mistakes.

 

Best wishes

 

Natabara Das

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

natabara wrote:

> Dear Andrew

>

> Also, now that we can talk about the outer planets, i am observing the

> association of Saturn and jupiter in Taurus opposite to Pluto. This

> configuration does not happen in the past 2000 years & i feel that it is

> very important. To me what is happening in America, the present most

> powerful nation on earth, is related mainly to this unique configuration

> which we are not going to see for perhaps another 2 or 3,000 years from now.

 

 

Dear Natabara, amigo,

 

I too am reluctant to neglect the "outers" - a wrong term, for Mars, jupiter and

saturn are outers by astronomy! "Outer outers" would be better, but the term

"trans.saturnian" TS would suit best.

 

The conjunction of jupiter and saturn was in aries 28/29, whereas pluto was in

scorpio 21/22. No opposition. The boad quincunx is weak. The effect should be

studied, bur I do not think that any concrete conclusions can be arrived at:

both planets retrograded and become direct, one in aries, the other in taurus!

 

IMHO the TS planets influence the whole world and overall trends, but affect

individuals and selected nations only if there are planets or angles closely

conjunct, at least less than 5 degrees. Even then, only Sun, Moon, Mercury.

venus and perhaps Mars (but certainly less) in "exact" aspect to the TS planets

are of individual interest, jupiter and saturn not at all: their effects can

only be global and apply to millions and millions!

 

Integrating TS planets into the jyothish frame is welcome: the present era has

reached a stage when their influences can be felt. But it has to be done very

very gently and carefully! Western astrologers have considered the TS planets

for quite some time, BUT THEIR INTERPRETATION IS MOSTLY BS! Firebrace, my

western sidereal "guru", said: Pluto is important only if the orb is within 1

degree; all aspects except conjunctions are weak!. He guided Winston Churchill

astrologically to success during the war and warned him against his later loss

of position. WC did not take heed, remained "imperialistic" - failed to follow

the trends of the TS planets - and became a political relique!

 

The question is always: am I adding to knowledge or refuting what was taught?

Refuting is also legitimate, if one does so with enough evidence. What applied

once may not apply today!

 

regards

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Natabara, and everyone.

 

Outer planets do affect us- and that's the fact. I do share your opinion

Natabara- why should we deprive ourselves from recognizing that which has been

proven so convincingly. Even than, there is always something "transcendental" in

every chart-and life, that defies prediction. (bodies not yet known, forces not

yet registered,etc).. We all have to take that into account- and talk about

possibities, rather than certainties..

 

having that in mind- I cannot understand the reason why we should exclude things

that we KNOW exist, and are rather powerful... There are already so many things

that we don't know about anything, or not enugh.

 

We've seen the interest on the list for Roberts post on MB points- and OUTER

plannets are even longer researched...and we know quite a lot about them. Das?

I've read your post on the Internet and I can feel your disagreement?

 

Regards,

Anna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Donna,

 

The fact that outer planets are "generational" -due to their slow motion, and

undoubtedly important for world events,

doesn't make them less powerful in a personal chart-life- just look at the

charts having them prominent (Gaugelin zone/ angular placement), or with lots of

contacts- you'll see that yourself.

Anna

-

Donna M

gjlist

Saturday, January 20, 2001 7:07 PM

Re: [gjlist] OUTER PLANETS

 

 

 

 

I have always thought that the outer planets were more for long term movements

and changes in humanity as a whole. And related to the individual in the way

that they fit into those changes. Does anyone else see this this way. What are

everyone else's thoughts on this?

donna

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I have always thought that the outer planets were more for long term movements

and changes in humanity as a whole. And related to the individual in the way

that they fit into those changes. Does anyone else see this this way. What are

everyone else's thoughts on this?

donna

 

 

 

 

 

 

Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.