Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Hi! Not long ago Robert referred to Brahmashapa and said it was a curse uttered by Brahmins to punish one who followed a foreign religion. I do not know how this interpretation arose, but venture to question its validity on various grounds. But please, Robert, this is not a personal "attack"! 1. Religion as we understand it today did not exist during vedic days. The belief in God and Devas etc. was practically universal at least on the Eurasian continent, the same deity had sometimes another name. 2. sanatana dharma was considered the mother of all religions and universal. 3. In the Gita Sri Krishna says, "All roads lead to me...... in whatever way one adores me he will come to me "etc. The question of following a "foreign" religion seems, therefore, to be irrelevant. Those who did not observe all the vedic rites according to the eastern group were called mlecchas, not chandalas. The term chandala means "outcast", later "outcaste". The original outcasts were those who were "outlawed" by the society for abominable crimes - or those who, according to "aryan" opinion, prayed to animistic or demonic spirits and refused to accept the more civilized Gods. In general Chandala means "Godless". Here it must be remembered that atheists of the Charvaka school, Jains and Buddhists etc. who did not accept the Supreme Deity still acknowledged the truly Gods like indra and performed rites. They were not referred to generally as chandalas. A later meaning came in, after the caste system had become rigid: the child of a brahmin woman by a sudra father was also called chandala, a person without caste! So the shapa meant "becoming Godless". But it is strange that a curse of that nature should have been spoken at all! A curse was meant as a punishment for some sin. It can be meant to bring suffering to teach a lesson. But to curse one to commit a sin in the next life which will probably again bring a punishment is the limit of meanness! It is against the spirit of Brahminhood! In my opinion the curse should boomerang and punish the brahmin who uttered it as well! Perhaps it was this non-forgiving attitude, this practice of uttering cruel curses, that deprived brahmins of their powers and status, that prevented all except a chosen few from becoming rishis. Playing God means spreading love, not distributing wrath and disaster! regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Namaste Mani, At 06:28 PM 1/17/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! > >Not long ago Robert referred to Brahmashapa and said it was a curse >uttered by >Brahmins to punish one who followed a foreign religion. I do not know how >this >interpretation arose, but venture to question its validity on various >grounds. >But please, Robert, this is not a personal "attack"! I think what has come out of all this discussion, is that the often piercing language of the classics, has to be interpreted according to what is currently digestible. "Curses of Brahmanas" is harsh, yes, but have you noticed that some people just do not "get" certain things? The affliction of Jupiter causes this, and, even though the language of curses and so forth are hard to wrap our minds around, the astrological event of Rahu afflicting Jupiter is going to have its repercussions. If a persons with such in their chart "gets it", then other maladies exist such as problems through defiance of gurus, saints, or learned persons. There are many possibilities, but you can get the idea if you think of what Rahu represents, and see that Jupiter represents the exact opposite things. The trick is, to get them to work together: logic, science, and analysis (Rahu); joining with Satvva guna, guru traditions, and intuition (Jupiter). This combination is thus good for astrologers, provided other reinforcing factors exist in the chart. They will work together, if there is a Chaya Graha Raja-yoga in this chart, namely: Jupiter ruling a kendra, and joining Rahu in a trikona; Jupiter ruling a trikona, and joining Rahu in a kendra. But basically, Guru-chandala yoga represents a departure from the traditions of guru-varga, and thus one is on his own to figure things out, if Rahu is stronger than Jupiter. If Jupiter is stronger than Rahu, then the person will be guided correctly and come to the correct understanding in time. With regards, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Om Krishnaaya Namah Namaskar Robert, > reinforcing factors exist in the chart. They will work together, if there > is a Chaya Graha Raja-yoga in this chart, namely: Jupiter ruling a kendra, > and joining Rahu in a trikona; Jupiter ruling a trikona, and joining Rahu > in a kendra. Because it is called a Chaya Graha Raja Yoga, am I correct in assuming that it applies not only in the case of Rahu, but also in that of Ketu? And if this is so, is this what you meant when you stated "Ketu enhances the veracity of the Raja-yoga; it does not detract from it." in our discussion of Srila Prabhupada's chart? Thanks a lot, Hare Krishna, Pursottam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Namaste Purushottam, At 11:10 AM 1/18/01 +0000, you wrote: >Om Krishnaaya Namah > >Namaskar Robert, > > > reinforcing factors exist in the chart. They will work together, if there > > is a Chaya Graha Raja-yoga in this chart, namely: Jupiter ruling a kendra, > > and joining Rahu in a trikona; Jupiter ruling a trikona, and joining Rahu > > in a kendra. > >Because it is called a Chaya Graha Raja Yoga, am I correct in assuming >that it applies not only in the case of Rahu, but also in that of Ketu? >And if this is so, is this what you meant when you stated "Ketu enhances >the veracity of the Raja-yoga; it does not detract from it." in our >discussion of Srila Prabhupada's chart? Yes, absolutely the Chaya graha Raja yoga is formed with Ketu also. That was indeed the point I was making with the chart of Srila Prabhupada. Ketu is the moksha karaka, and will be found with Jupiter, Atmakaraka, or the Sun most often in charts of saints, Sannyasis, and those pursuing final emancipation. As Das pointed out, Ketu makes the world of form (Maya) very tasteless, and strips away all illusions about the prospects of happiness in the mundane world. They have this realization, as a result of tapasya (penance and austerity) performed over countless previous births. Thus Ketu opens the doors of Moksha, which one can walk through only when the mundane karmas have been relinquished. Rahu received the nectar, and thus continues on a path toward material involvement or the hopes of achieving success on some ego-centered ways. Ketu, is the dead body of Rahu, discarded after he was beheaded. Thus, for those coming under solar or Jupiterian conjunctions of Ketu, the last remnants of karma are burned up in the fire of ordeal, and thus they become fit to ascend to a higher dimension in the next lifetimes. Anyway, this was clearly the case with Prabhupada, and you can easily see it if you use the Sg lagna for his chart. Note that Rahu can also lead the path to liberation, if he becomes the Atmakaraka in the chart, or the planet attaining the highest degrees. With Rahu, count from the end of the sign to determine his temporary karaka status, as he is always retrograde. In my studies with charts of persons with the Atmakaraka as Rahu, much suffering had to be done by the native in order to pursue the spiritual path, as Rahu in such situations is forced to carry roles that are different from his inherent nature. The person will thus have to dispense with some very stigmatic karmas, before the event of Moksha can be achieved. A similar situation occurs, if Rahu joins Jupiter (guru chandala yoga). In that situation, one has to see which is stronger: Rahu or Jupiter. If Jupiter is stronger, one gets a guru to guide him/her properly so as to wade through the maze of different and conflicting philosophies regarding spirituality and the highest attainments. One starts out confused, but gets it right in the end. If Rahu is stronger than Jupiter, then the path is blocked, as reason or empirical thought take precedence over faith and the blessings of the guru and predecessors. More on all this later! With regards, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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