Guest guest Posted January 14, 2001 Report Share Posted January 14, 2001 Dear List Members, Yet another Guru Chandala Yoga. Can anybody comment on this chart since Jupiter will be with Rahu in Gemini in transit very soon. DOB 18-2-1958 TOB 03-45 hrs POB Kanchipuram Lat 12N50, Long 79E43 ASC Sagittarius 20-53 Sat Sagittarius 0-44 Mar Sagittarius 16-52 Venus ® Capri 7-24 Mercury Capri 24-41 Moon Capri 27-25 Sun Aquar 5-29 Ketu Aries 10-14 Jup® Libra 8-23 Rahu Libra 10-14 regards ravindramani _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Hi Ravidramani/All, I think I missed something here; could someone please explain what Guru Chandala Yoga is? Are you referring to Gaja-Kesari Yoga? Please explain? Thanks. Salaam, Mu Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Dear Mu'Min, At 10:14 AM 1/15/01 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Ravidramani/All, > >I think I missed something here; could someone please >explain what Guru Chandala Yoga is? Are you referring >to Gaja-Kesari Yoga? Please explain? > >Thanks. > >Salaam, >Mu The Guru-chandala yoga consists of the conjunction of Rahu and Jupiter. In fact, a chandala (which represents an outcaste, or Rahu) yoga occurs with the conjunction of Rahu with any graha, thus Shukra chandala, Shani chandala, etc. Due to the oscillation of the nodes, and the clear representation of Rahu through Tama-guna, or forces of darkness, much obscurity, or distortion of the normal functionality of such planets, occurs when Rahu conjoins them. Thus when Jupiter conjoins Rahu, it indicates a "Brahma-shapa", or curse from Brahmanas (high teachers or gurus) through the prior lifetimes, and thus one's realization of truth or the path of light becomes distorted. This will be even more the case, if Jupiter/Rahu conjoin closely enough, so as to place them in the same Navamsa, which is the divisional chart of Dharma, or the path toward light walked (or not) by the native through many prior lifetimes. Persons who have this yoga, will most often have great difficulty in the formal relationships with gurus, as well as teachers in general. It is also a disadvantage for astrologers, as clarity of vision coming through the third eye, is mostly shut down. All the best, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Actually Robert, according to some texts, the conjunction of (exalted) Jupiter/Rahu in kendra gives rise to an auspicious yoga...may take me some time to find the text on my dusty bookshelf but I will post it when I do. Nice shot though :-) Wendy Robert A. Koch [rkoch] Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:50 AM gjlist Re: [gjlist] Guru Chandala Yoga Dear Mu'Min, At 10:14 AM 1/15/01 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Ravidramani/All, > >I think I missed something here; could someone please >explain what Guru Chandala Yoga is? Are you referring >to Gaja-Kesari Yoga? Please explain? > >Thanks. > >Salaam, >Mu The Guru-chandala yoga consists of the conjunction of Rahu and Jupiter. In fact, a chandala (which represents an outcaste, or Rahu) yoga occurs with the conjunction of Rahu with any graha, thus Shukra chandala, Shani chandala, etc. Due to the oscillation of the nodes, and the clear representation of Rahu through Tama-guna, or forces of darkness, much obscurity, or distortion of the normal functionality of such planets, occurs when Rahu conjoins them. Thus when Jupiter conjoins Rahu, it indicates a "Brahma-shapa", or curse from Brahmanas (high teachers or gurus) through the prior lifetimes, and thus one's realization of truth or the path of light becomes distorted. This will be even more the case, if Jupiter/Rahu conjoin closely enough, so as to place them in the same Navamsa, which is the divisional chart of Dharma, or the path toward light walked (or not) by the native through many prior lifetimes. Persons who have this yoga, will most often have great difficulty in the formal relationships with gurus, as well as teachers in general. It is also a disadvantage for astrologers, as clarity of vision coming through the third eye, is mostly shut down. All the best, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk gjlist- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Robert, Just one example of this (so-called) "Rahu" affliction is the chart of Mahatma Ghandi. He has Moon conjunct Rahu in 10th house. Moon is in "own sign" and in Kendra...giving rise to an auspicious yoga. This brought him great fame (10th) with the masses (MO). Moon represents mind and I think we can safely say that Ghandi did not suffer any mental affliction due to the presence of Rahu. Care must be taken when predicting the affects of these yoga's. It's important to note what houses these planets occupy and what their dignity is before rash statements are made. Wendy Robert wrote: The Guru-chandala yoga consists of the conjunction of Rahu and Jupiter. In fact, a chandala (which represents an outcaste, or Rahu) yoga occurs with the conjunction of Rahu with any graha, thus Shukra chandala, Shani chandala, etc. Due to the oscillation of the nodes, and the clear representation of Rahu through Tama-guna, or forces of darkness, much obscurity, or distortion of the normal functionality of such planets, occurs when Rahu conjoins them. Thus when Jupiter conjoins Rahu, it indicates a "Brahma-shapa", or curse from Brahmanas (high teachers or gurus) through the prior lifetimes, and thus one's realization of truth or the path of light becomes distorted. This will be even more the case, if Jupiter/Rahu conjoin closely enough, so as to place them in the same Navamsa, which is the divisional chart of Dharma, or the path toward light walked (or not) by the native through many prior lifetimes. Persons who have this yoga, will most often have great difficulty in the formal relationships with gurus, as well as teachers in general. It is also a disadvantage for astrologers, as clarity of vision coming through the third eye, is mostly shut down. All the best, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk gjlist- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 OM namah shivaya Dear Wendy, Wendy Vasicek wrote: > Robert, > Just one example of this (so-called) "Rahu" affliction is the chart of > Mahatma Ghandi. He has Moon conjunct Rahu in 10th house. Moon is in "own > sign" and in Kendra...giving rise to an auspicious yoga. This brought him > great fame (10th) with the masses (MO). Moon represents mind and I think we > can safely say that Ghandi did not suffer any mental affliction due to the > presence of Rahu. In the chart of this mahatma, Moon (AK) Rahu conjunction is aspected by saturn, the significator for mass followings (rasi drishti). In this case, Rahu & Moon are 5th and 10th lords, leading to conjunction of lords of kendras in kendra. You say that Ghandi did not suffer mental affliction. Do you not think that a man in his position, watching his countrymen tear his country in two had an afflicted mind? He may have been strong enough to overcome it, but the effects of Rahu are evident to me. > Care must be taken when predicting the affects of these yoga's. It's > important to note what houses these planets occupy and what their dignity is > before rash statements are made. Of course, there will be exceptions to every rule. However, someone asked what Guru-Chandala yoga was, and this was well explained by Robert. It is understood that no rule should be applied blindly. yours, ajit -- Ajit Krishnan ajit@(julian|csd|engga).uwo.ca http://publish.uwo.ca/~akrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Wendy and Robert, Moon with Rahu, as you said, are present in the 10th house of Mahatma Gandhi, but it did not effect his mind, but did you notice the obsession it caused in him. Did you notice, the unorthodoxy in his actions, the convictions he had and the determination with which he executed his thoughts and his actions. Rahu is popularly known as Chandala. Now Chandala is a person who not only is out-caste but if we take the caste system, as prevalent in India, he is the person, who would be on the lowest rung of the ladder. In my view, in today's society, Rahu represents the unorthodoxy in a person. The strength to break the conventions (parampara) comes from Rahu. Therefore a strict idealist, Jupiter conjoining with a first rate Chandala, Rahu was considered as Guru-Chandala yoga and is not a good yoga to have in the chart. This is the negative side. But who would have the strength to break the conventions. Only that person, who has deep sense of conviction for the way he thinks and acts. Therefore, does it not mean, that this would also enhance a person's analytical abilities. And moreover, for me, nothing is negative, even the negative would have positive hidden somewhere within and what looks positive on surface could conceit lot of negativities. with best regards, Manoj _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 >This is >the negative side. But who would have the strength to break the >conventions. >Only that person, who has deep sense of conviction for the way he thinks >and >acts. Therefore, does it not mean, that this would also enhance a person's >analytical abilities. > >And moreover, for me, nothing is negative, even the negative would have >positive hidden somewhere within and what looks positive on surface could >conceit lot of negativities. > > Dear manoj, well said. ravindramani _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Manoj and all, As an explanation of the icy undercurrents going on here between myself and Robert, I will just say one thing before I withdraw from the list and leave you all in peace for awhile. The fact is that my horoscope is pretty much in the public domain and Robert knows this. As a matter of fact, shortly before Robert posted his comments on Guru Chandala Yoga, he had sent me a private mail commenting on my horoscope (in particular the current dasa periods). He knows full well that I have JU/RA in 7th house. His extremely negative description, void of any of the positive attributes, was mean and deliberate...of course that's going to trigger a reaction from me! as he well-knew it would. Lesson well learned though...I'll not rise to the bait again! Robert has 2/7 L mars in 9th; I have 9th lord Mercury in the 9th...there seems to be an awful lot of hostility (conflict) between us in the area of religion (natural law, etc)...it's very sad, as we're both engaged in religious works. However I'm withdrawing from the battle...I am a Woman after all and don't have the warrior attributes of Mars in the 9th...so before I'm mortally wounded, I withdraw from the battle field. By the way Ajit Saturn is not aspecting Moon in Ghandi's chart (Rasi drishti perhaps). Wendy Manoj Pathak [manojpathak] Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:50 PM gjlist RE: [gjlist] Guru Chandala Yoga Dear Wendy and Robert, Moon with Rahu, as you said, are present in the 10th house of Mahatma Gandhi, but it did not effect his mind, but did you notice the obsession it caused in him. Did you notice, the unorthodoxy in his actions, the convictions he had and the determination with which he executed his thoughts and his actions. Rahu is popularly known as Chandala. Now Chandala is a person who not only is out-caste but if we take the caste system, as prevalent in India, he is the person, who would be on the lowest rung of the ladder. In my view, in today's society, Rahu represents the unorthodoxy in a person. The strength to break the conventions (parampara) comes from Rahu. Therefore a strict idealist, Jupiter conjoining with a first rate Chandala, Rahu was considered as Guru-Chandala yoga and is not a good yoga to have in the chart. This is the negative side. But who would have the strength to break the conventions. Only that person, who has deep sense of conviction for the way he thinks and acts. Therefore, does it not mean, that this would also enhance a person's analytical abilities. And moreover, for me, nothing is negative, even the negative would have positive hidden somewhere within and what looks positive on surface could conceit lot of negativities. with best regards, Manoj _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. gjlist- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Wendy and all, hope you don't mind my suggesting to Not take anything written as personal even if it may have be intended and instead to discuss the underlying astrological merits. I know it can be difficult at times But one should endeavour to be above it all. Per my understanding Rahu being a Karaka for 'Foreigners' being associated with Jupiter would suggest a person who would be more inclined to follow or be interested in 'foreign' thoughts, ideals and religions which probably is true in your case re: believing in Vedic culture etc. The fact that Robert quoted this to be a 'Brahma-Shapa' curse per Vedic literature is generally that 'devoted' Hindus are Not supposed to follow different religions and for them to do so would imply a curse from a previous life. In your case it is probably a 'blessing' in disguise!! Hence as stated by yourself and others it is very important to look at the 'chart' as a whole as opposed from getting 'bogged' down with literally believing every yoga expounded in BPHS as written instead of interpreting it for current times and for that matter for oneself!! Would hate to see you leave this list in such circumstances - please re-consider!!! Best wishes ...... Jai Sita Ram Ram > > Wendy Vasicek [sMTP:wenvas] > Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:38 AM > gjlist > RE: [gjlist] Guru Chandala Yoga > > Manoj and all, > > As an explanation of the icy undercurrents going on here between myself > and > Robert, I will just say one thing before I withdraw from the list and > leave > you all in peace for awhile. The fact is that my horoscope is pretty much > in > the public domain and Robert knows this. > > As a matter of fact, shortly before Robert posted his comments on Guru > Chandala Yoga, he had sent me a private mail commenting on my horoscope > (in > particular the current dasa periods). He knows full well that I have JU/RA > in 7th house. > > His extremely negative description, void of any of the positive > attributes, > was mean and deliberate...of course that's going to trigger a reaction > from > me! as he well-knew it would. > > Lesson well learned though...I'll not rise to the bait again! > > Robert has 2/7 L mars in 9th; I have 9th lord Mercury in the 9th...there > seems to be an awful lot of hostility (conflict) between us in the area of > religion (natural law, etc)...it's very sad, as we're both engaged in > religious works. However I'm withdrawing from the battle...I am a Woman > after all and don't have the warrior attributes of Mars in the 9th...so > before I'm mortally wounded, I withdraw from the battle field. > > By the way Ajit Saturn is not aspecting Moon in Ghandi's chart (Rasi > drishti > perhaps). > > Wendy > > > > Manoj Pathak [manojpathak] > Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:50 PM > gjlist > RE: [gjlist] Guru Chandala Yoga > > > Dear Wendy and Robert, > > Moon with Rahu, as you said, are present in the 10th house of Mahatma > Gandhi, but it did not effect his mind, but did you notice the obsession > it > caused in him. Did you notice, the unorthodoxy in his actions, the > convictions he had and the determination with which he executed his > thoughts > and his actions. > > Rahu is popularly known as Chandala. Now Chandala is a person who not only > is out-caste but if we take the caste system, as prevalent in India, he is > the person, who would be on the lowest rung of the ladder. In my view, in > today's society, Rahu represents the unorthodoxy in a person. The strength > to break the conventions (parampara) comes from Rahu. Therefore a strict > idealist, Jupiter conjoining with a first rate Chandala, Rahu was > considered > as Guru-Chandala yoga and is not a good yoga to have in the chart. This is > the negative side. But who would have the strength to break the > conventions. > Only that person, who has deep sense of conviction for the way he thinks > and > acts. Therefore, does it not mean, that this would also enhance a person's > analytical abilities. > > And moreover, for me, nothing is negative, even the negative would have > positive hidden somewhere within and what looks positive on surface could > conceit lot of negativities. > > with best regards, > > Manoj > _______________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > gjlist- > > > > > > > gjlist- > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC, unless specifically stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 In a message dated 1/16/01 6:20:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, manojpathak writes: > Rahu is popularly known as Chandala. Now Chandala is a person who not only > is out-caste but if we take the caste system, as prevalent in India, he is > the person, who would be on the lowest rung of the ladder. In my view, in > today's society, Rahu represents the unorthodoxy in a person. The strength > to break the conventions (parampara) comes from Rahu. Therefore a strict > idealist, Jupiter conjoining with a first rate Chandala, Rahu was > considered > as Guru-Chandala yoga and is not a good yoga to have in the chart. This is > the negative side. But who would have the strength to break the > conventions. > Only that person, who has deep sense of conviction for the way he thinks > and > acts. Therefore, does it not mean, that this would also enhance a person's > analytical abilities. > > What about Jupiter trine Rahu? Lalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 AIM GURAVE NAMAH I'm back from Spain, VERY WELL explained , I'm happy with the abundance of Prashadam in this forum. I agree 1000% with your input on this matter. may the ligh of Guru shine with you always! and happy new year Chaitanya S. Das gjlist , "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch@b...> wrote: > Dear Mu'Min, > > At 10:14 AM 1/15/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi Ravidramani/All, > > > >I think I missed something here; could someone please > >explain what Guru Chandala Yoga is? Are you referring > >to Gaja-Kesari Yoga? Please explain? > > > >Thanks. > > > >Salaam, > >Mu > > The Guru-chandala yoga consists of the conjunction of Rahu and Jupiter. In > fact, a chandala (which represents an outcaste, or Rahu) yoga occurs with > the conjunction of Rahu with any graha, thus Shukra chandala, Shani > chandala, etc. Due to the oscillation of the nodes, and the clear > representation of Rahu through Tama-guna, or forces of darkness, much > obscurity, or distortion of the normal functionality of such planets, > occurs when Rahu conjoins them. Thus when Jupiter conjoins Rahu, it > indicates a "Brahma-shapa", or curse from Brahmanas (high teachers or > gurus) through the prior lifetimes, and thus one's realization of truth or > the path of light becomes distorted. This will be even more the case, if > Jupiter/Rahu conjoin closely enough, so as to place them in the same > Navamsa, which is the divisional chart of Dharma, or the path toward light > walked (or not) by the native through many prior lifetimes. Persons who > have this yoga, will most often have great difficulty in the formal > relationships with gurus, as well as teachers in general. It is also a > disadvantage for astrologers, as clarity of vision coming through the third > eye, is mostly shut down. > > All the best, > Robert > > ===================================== > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > Phone: 541-318-0248 > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > rk@r... rk@r... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 With the "affliction" in the tenth house I would say that Mahatma Gandhi saw it as his job to help the outcastes ( which he did ). And in helping the outcastes this did indeed put a certain burden on the brahmins (hence the assigning to it as a curse or affliction). In the seventh house, I would say this would cause an attraction to foreigners or low life "boyfriends or girlfriends" or "partners". Also a desire to form partnerships with "outcastes" or "disgraced brahmins". Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Robert, Just one example of this (so-called) "Rahu" affliction is the chart of Mahatma Ghandi. He has Moon conjunct Rahu in 10th house. Moon is in "own sign" and in Kendra...giving rise to an auspicious yoga. This brought him great fame (10th) with the masses (MO). Moon represents mind and I think we can safely say that Ghandi did not suffer any mental affliction due to the presence of Rahu. Care must be taken when predicting the affects of these yoga's. It's important to note what houses these planets occupy and what their dignity is before rash statements are made. Wendy Robert wrote: The Guru-chandala yoga consists of the conjunction of Rahu and Jupiter. In fact, a chandala (which represents an outcaste, or Rahu) yoga occurs with the conjunction of Rahu with any graha, thus Shukra chandala, Shani chandala, etc. Due to the oscillation of the nodes, and the clear representation of Rahu through Tama-guna, or forces of darkness, much obscurity, or distortion of the normal functionality of such planets, occurs when Rahu conjoins them. Thus when Jupiter conjoins Rahu, it indicates a "Brahma-shapa", or curse from Brahmanas (high teachers or gurus) through the prior lifetimes, and thus one's realization of truth or the path of light becomes distorted. This will be even more the case, if Jupiter/Rahu conjoin closely enough, so as to place them in the same Navamsa, which is the divisional chart of Dharma, or the path toward light walked (or not) by the native through many prior lifetimes. Persons who have this yoga, will most often have great difficulty in the formal relationships with gurus, as well as teachers in general. It is also a disadvantage for astrologers, as clarity of vision coming through the third eye, is mostly shut down. All the best, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit or e-mail rk. rk gjlist- gjlist- Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Lalia, You wrote: >What about Jupiter trine Rahu? > >Lalia This is a very good question, and leads the discussion back to the question "do the nodes have any aspectual strength". Well, arguments and counter arguments on that subject have been given, yet considering the following: 1. A conjunction is an aspect, and so if that is accepted, then Rahu has such an aspect. 2. If it doesn't, then Rahu has no effect at all (?) 3. If Jupiter (or any planet) is in an *exact* trine to Rahu (within a 3-20 degree range), then they will be in conjunction in the Navamsa chart. Navamsa conjunctions with Rahu are more significant than natal ones, from the point of view that the Navamsa indicates dharma, and karmas related, covering a longer span of time. From this, note the following: that when *transit* Rahu comes to a trine (within the above degree range) with any natal planet, Rahu will thus move to conjunction of that planet's natal Navamsa position. This is critical, as the effects of the chandala yoga, as mentioned by me before, will come into effect. The good news, is that it will be only temporarily. Watch for the same situation, when transit Saturn comes to a trine aspect with a natal planet. He will then visit the Navamsa of that planet, and thus do his usual bidding for obstruction of that planet for the time being. With regards, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Robert: Thanks for this important clarification on aspect strengths, especially in transit. See comments below. > >3. If Jupiter (or any planet) is in an *exact* trine to Rahu (within a >3-20 degree range), then they will be in conjunction in the Navamsa >chart. Navamsa conjunctions with Rahu are more significant than natal >ones, from the point of view that the Navamsa indicates dharma, and karmas >related, covering a longer span of time. Here you're making the case for paying attention to orbs of less than 3*20 and that's all to the good. I wonder about oppositions however: if Rahu opposes Jupiter -- and hence Ketu conjoins Jupiter -- then we can say that Rahu aspects Jupiter and vice versa however does guru chandala still obtain? On the basis on my experience, I would say yes, although perhaps we need to be careful about what sorts of qualities we attribute to this yoga. If we mean simply following foreign ideas and religions, then definitely, Ketu conjoining Jupiter does bring that about. But some of your other comments about guru chandala yoga obstructing true vision, bad for astrologers, etc. is a more extended definition. What say you? Perhaps you're not the most unbiased observer as you have Ketu conjoining Jupiter (I think Rick Houck does too, and Martin Gansten for that matter). No doubt truth, justice and the un-American way will flow from such a chart formation! :-) > > From this, note the following: that when *transit* Rahu comes to a trine >(within the above degree range) with any natal planet, Rahu will thus move >to conjunction of that planet's natal Navamsa position. This is critical, >as the effects of the chandala yoga, as mentioned by me before, will come >into effect. The good news, is that it will be only temporarily. > >Watch for the same situation, when transit Saturn comes to a trine aspect >with a natal planet. He will then visit the Navamsa of that planet, and >thus do his usual bidding for obstruction of that planet for the time being. This is an interesting way to "sneak" western-style aspects in the back door, through navamsha contacts. I guess it doesn't matter a *whole* lot which is correct, as long as some means is available to note an effect. It's a good point that's well taken and should remind us all of looking at divisional charts for relevant transit effects when there are none apparent in the rashi. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Robert and Lalia, You again led the question back to nodal aspects. In India, many astrologers take the trinal aspects of Rahu, but then they dont take Ketu into consideration. Now coming back to your question. There is a basic principle in astrology which states, that if a planet has other planet in Kendra from itself, they mutually interact and so for trinal placements. All the trinal signs would belong to the same Tatwa. Say if Rahu is placed in Aries, Jupiter goes to Leo, both again are fiery signs. Astrology, actually works on trines, try examining this. Jupiter placed in Trine from Rahu, Lalia for me is good. Though if it involves ninth house and lagna, it is said, that such a person may be well versed in creating controversies and live with it. But such a person, would be deeply spiritual too, with many inherent doubts and one always strives hard to find answers to it. He would also be extremely devoted to his guru, if he has one. with best regards, Manoj >"Robert A. Koch" <rkoch >gjlist >gjlist >Re: [gjlist] Guru Chandala Yoga >Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:57:46 -0800 > >Dear Lalia, > >You wrote: > > >What about Jupiter trine Rahu? > > > >Lalia > >This is a very good question, and leads the discussion back to the question >"do the nodes have any aspectual strength". Well, arguments and counter >arguments on that subject have been given, yet considering the following: > >1. A conjunction is an aspect, and so if that is accepted, then Rahu has >such an aspect. > >2. If it doesn't, then Rahu has no effect at all (?) > >3. If Jupiter (or any planet) is in an *exact* trine to Rahu (within a >3-20 degree range), then they will be in conjunction in the Navamsa >chart. Navamsa conjunctions with Rahu are more significant than natal >ones, from the point of view that the Navamsa indicates dharma, and karmas >related, covering a longer span of time. > > From this, note the following: that when *transit* Rahu comes to a trine >(within the above degree range) with any natal planet, Rahu will thus move >to conjunction of that planet's natal Navamsa position. This is critical, >as the effects of the chandala yoga, as mentioned by me before, will come >into effect. The good news, is that it will be only temporarily. > >Watch for the same situation, when transit Saturn comes to a trine aspect >with a natal planet. He will then visit the Navamsa of that planet, and >thus do his usual bidding for obstruction of that planet for the time >being. > >With regards, >Robert > >===================================== >Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer >760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. >Bend, OR. 97701-9037 >Phone: 541-318-0248 >visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail >rk. rk > > > >gjlist- > > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 In a message dated 1/17/01 12:01:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, manojpathak writes: > Jupiter placed in Trine from Rahu, Lalia for me is good. Though if it > involves ninth house and lagna, it is said, that such a person may be well > versed in creating controversies and live with it. But such a person, would > be deeply spiritual too, with many inherent doubts and one always strives > hard to find answers to it. He would also be extremely devoted to his guru, > Thanks, Manoj and Robert for your remarks. I have Jupiter in Sagittarius in the lagna, trine Rahu in 5. As a westerner interested in Vedic matters, I am the iconoclast that Robert and others have described. Lalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Dear Robert and Christopher I have followed this debate about the nodes with interest and was going to make the point Robert made about planets in close trine being in the same navamsha. This should be observed in particular when comparing two horoscopes. For example Mars and Venus in two charts may be in close trine and therefore in the same navamsha. This will cause strong attraction that may not be evident by looking at the rashi charts alone as this trine is not normally considered a powerful attracting aspect. For a real life example at my site I have the chart of Michael Hutchence and on the day he died the Bhukti lord Venus was in exact trine to Rahu and close 10th house aspect to Saturn. In the navamsha Venus is with Rahu and again afflicted by Saturn by the 10th house aspect. He died in the period of Saturn/Venus and it should be noted that Rahu is in very close trine to the ascendent in the birth chart putting Rahu in the navamsha lagna as well. Apart from the already obvious aspects this Rahu would also explain his wayward behaviour and addictions as Rahu is in the nakshatra of 8th lord and ava yogi Sun. My view on the nodes is that Rahu in particular does aspect but Ketu is very strong by natal position and in transit over natal planets. Ketu eclipses the Sun so is potentially the strongest force in any chart having the power to block the Sun's energies. This is shown by the association of Sun and Ketu in the charts of great spiritual leaders. The Dalai Lama has Sun, Mercury and Ketu in the 12th house as does Gurudeva. This shows enlightenment and destruction of the self in these cases. Ketu has this eclypsing effect on any other planet it is closely associated with and can be either good or bad depending on other factors. Mercury is not called the "Messenger of the Gods" for nothing and must be in the picture also. I think for material success or world acclaim Rahu can give you everything if well placed as shown by the recent success of Bush in America. Rahu can also easily destroy you if you are unable to handle its great power. Rahu seems to magnify a planet and turbo charge it for good or bad depending on its nature in the chart. The position and strength of its dispositor is of major importance as is it's nakshatra lord. I think working out the nature of Rahu in a chart is far more important than worrying about the aspects, especially for beginners, as without knowing the nature of Rahu how can you pass judgement on its perceived aspects? Rahu eclipses the Moon and can show illusion and deception. People under the influence of Rahu can be great conmen and frauds. The association of the Moon and Rahu in particular can show a lunatic as the mind is darkened and eclipsed. Even with Gandhi it produced a fanatic, but luckily he was a peaceful fanatic. In the wrong chart it is more likely to produce a madman like Charles Manson or Jim Jones who have this association. Aleister Crowley also had this aspect. All these people had a svengali hold on others. One point of interpretion that should be made clear is that every planet aspects every other planet in some way or another. It is like turning the light on in a house, it may be clearly seen in some rooms, but from others may be but a faint ray. The same can be said for aspects between planets and it takes skill and experience to make a correct judgements. The ancient astrologer had to erect charts by hand which took considerable skill and time. We are lucky in the fact we have computers and access to tremendous amounts of birth data and events that can be verified. This puts us at a big advantage and we should endevour to put up new ideas and concepts for scrutiny without fear of being ridiculed or attacked. We must not become "fundamentalist astrologers" who attack anybody whose views differ from ours or the ancient texts. I think conservative thinking in some areas of Vedic astrology has led to a denial of the outer planets and their usefulness in interpreting a chart also. In the ancient texts there was no mention of electricity, computers or aeroplanes but none of us would deny their use or effectiveness. Having never been a western astrologer I have no interest in hijacking any part of Vedic astrology or adding parts of one system to the other, but the effects of the outer planets are one thing I think we all should look at more carefully. I have already mentioned in other postings my thoughts about Uranus being the planet of astrology and the third eye chakra and Neptune relating to mystics and the crown chakra. This is very evident if you look at the charts of people like Yogaswami, Gurudeva and the Dalai Lama. The very position of their Neptune in particular would indicate it's importance. I'm not suggesting you can't do a reading without these planets but you either ignore them or try to interpret them and I prefer to look at them objectively. My old teacher has decades of experience in astrology and is a very traditional Hindu. He insists the outer planets are very important and should never be ignored. He came to this conclusion after observing their effects over many years simply by seeing them in charts. I would think we should all embrace his open mindedness as well. As a last comment on the nodes it would seem there has always been two camps with some saying they are "shadow" grahas and therefore cannot cast aspects and others who think they cast a trine aspect. My advice to everybody is to find out yourself which is right. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Dear List, I am quoting following sloka from one of the book I have. The name of the book later. I can't understand it, but it is saying about Rahu's aspects. Can anybody kindly translate it ? Sutha Madana Nava Nethya- Yugala Dasamagehe Varda Drishting Vadanthi sahaja Reepu Prapasyang- Pada Drishtin- Munindrah. thanks, Karu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Dear Members, Following is an exchange of mail between myself and another Astrologer (forwarded with permission from other party). The contents, I believe, are a clear example of why we should be wary of using "yogas" blindly (in their literal sense) without due consideration being given to the horoscope as a whole. It's good to learn all the different yogas but (to my mind) common sense and good judgement are more important. Dear Wendy, <<I have JU/RA in 7th house.>> In my experience of 30 years of studying & practicing astrology (the first 6 years of those were western astrology), Jupiter conjunction Rahu is both positive & negative. On the negative side, it means that the native is too open and cheaters find opportunities to cheat the native sometimes badly. On every occasion, the native promises not to open the door again to cheaters but due to his/her beautiful & trusting nature, the door gets open soon again. On the positive side, you can read from Harish Johari's books that the conjunction of Jupiter & Rahu or Venus & Rahu (or Ketu as well), indicates a tantra yoga. In my reading experience the closest the planets, the more powerful the tantra yoga will be. People with this tantra yoga have a big potential for psychic powers, either clairvoyance, clairaudience, mediumship, healing etc. In the 7th house, indicates that the native has the tendencies to attract spiritualistic or tantric people or that his/her powers can help the masses. I hope that these lines are helpful. Lots of Love ......... Dear....... Your insight into JU/RA conjunction is certainly (in my case) the most accurate EVER given. I applaud your knowledge and have certainly gained in my understanding after reading your words...this is the sort of exchange (between jyotishis) we all hope for. It doesn't cast aspersions on any of those seemingly unfortunate Astrologers who have this Guru Chandala (curse). Indeed, on the negative side, I do seem to be forever vulnerable to deception (so to speak) and have on several occasions been cheated badly by those I trusted naively. And once again, on the positive side, your interpretation is spot on! Although I have been wanting in my practice for some time now, I do practice the Patanjali yoga sutras as taught in the TM Sidhi program. (sidhi powers). This is totally in line with what you say regarding "tantra yoga". Interesting to note that I was in Rahu bhukti of Jupiter dasa when I first received initiation and began my long (spiritual) journey. In my opinion JU/RA was the very best period for me...filled with happiness, blessed with Guru, learning, great advances in spiritual life, etc. I believe the favourable results of this period were due (in part) to JU/RA position in Dashamsha chart (status, achievement, etc)...RA owns 9th, JU owns 7th; both are in 5th house, with dispositor VE in 9th house of Religion, Guru, etc. And, once again, it was in "Rahu" bhukti (Saturn dasa) that I received my sutras. So your interpretation is absolutely correct on all counts, and shows clearly the need to exercise common sense and judgement before applying yogas. There are also several auspicious yogas in my horoscope (as is common with many people) but, again, common sense must prevail before applying them. To all those Astrologers out there who have told me "they too" have this "cursed yoga"...never fear! judge the whole horoscope and use your own common sense. Regards Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Lalia: I would caution you and others from reading too much into a simple Jupiter-Rahu contact from counting signs. I too have Jupiter is Sag and Rahu in Leo but the orb is 22 degrees. I am under no illusions that this influences me in any great way. Just about everybody who was born in 1960 has guru chandala. Does this make them all weirdos who are flocking to eastern religion and who have problems with teachers? No way. They are two slow moving points and only create their effects when in close orb and they are connected with lagnesh/9th house/Sun/Moon. best, Chris At 09:23 AM 1/17/01 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/17/01 12:01:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, >manojpathak writes: > > >> Jupiter placed in Trine from Rahu, Lalia for me is good. Though if it >> involves ninth house and lagna, it is said, that such a person may be well >> versed in creating controversies and live with it. But such a person, would >> be deeply spiritual too, with many inherent doubts and one always strives >> hard to find answers to it. He would also be extremely devoted to his guru, >> > >Thanks, Manoj and Robert for your remarks. I have Jupiter in Sagittarius in >the lagna, trine Rahu in 5. As a westerner interested in Vedic matters, I am >the iconoclast that Robert and others have described. > >Lalia > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 Christopher Kevill schrieb: > Lalia: > > Just about everybody who was born in 1960 > has guru chandala. Does this make them all weirdos who are flocking to > eastern religion and who have problems with teachers? No way. They are two > slow moving points and only create their effects when in close orb and they > are connected with lagnesh/9th house/Sun/Moon. Hi Chris! Excellent point. This applies to all yogas involving slow-movers and at best the effects may manifest only if another aspect strengthens the tendency - and only during the appropriate dasas. Otherwise it becomes a "spirit of the times", a movement of a large section of the world population. There is definitely a tendency today amongst those born in 1960 to seek solace in eastern religions, as compared with those born in say 1930: that was an atheistic generation. If people talked about God or astrology in 1960 they had to be careful not to get shut up in a lunatic asylum! regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Guru Chandal Yoga is known as unfavourable yoga and it certainly is. Under the certain circumstances as rahu placement in 7/12 th from Arudha Lagna, it gives spiritual tendencies. However, it is important that the bad effect of the Yoga will be felt for sure. It only depends on which areas of life the yoga would influence. People often think that chandala Yoga would give bad character for example. It may not be true. If formed in 5th house it may badly damage children. Therefore, it all depends on the overall graha layout in the chart. What is sure, that there is a difference between bad and good yoga. Best wishes, Zoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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