Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Om Krishnaaya Namah Hello, << it is said to be quite common that the Devi will incarnate as a human being just like Krsna has promised (in fact more common than Krsna's Avataras!!!)...in fact the same promise, that whenever virtue declines and the earth is groaning under the weight of the demonic hordes, Devi will incarnate to remove them... >> Out of interest, is there any shaastric source which lists and predicts all the past and future incarnations. As you may or may not know, Vaishnava's only accept those avataras which have been predicted in the Shastras as being genuine. Buddha, Chaitanya, Kalki etc. are all mentioned in various Itihaasa's and Purana's in detail, often mentioning towns, parent's names, activities etc. Even Lord Shiva's avatara as Sripada Shankaracharya is (I think) mentioned in the Padma Purana. So it would be interesting to get a list of authorised incarnations of Devi Maa. Thanks, Hare Krishna, Pursottam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Namaste All!! a great discussion on gurus, avatars and such...it's nice to see Dasji back in form too!!!love your postings Dasji!!!...even if i don't always agree with them...they are very well put.... if one had checked out the Sakta sampradayas, one would find in that tradition (which is as ancient and venerable as the Vaishnava tradition...just more INCLUSIVE!!!) it is said to be quite common that the Devi will incarnate as a human being just like Krsna has promised (in fact more common than Krsna's Avataras!!!)...in fact the same promise, that whenever virtue declines and the earth is groaning under the weight of the demonic hordes, Devi will incarnate to remove them... It is said that one can easily meet Divine Mother in the Streets in India...one never knows...She could be any one....(and IS anyone, by our understanding, since it is the Sakti Who created all this mess, and Who is incarnated in all our forms...(this is Sakta doctrine..not my own made up stuff...!!)) We are encouraged to see all Women as the Devi, or as a daughter of the Devi...this would build strong interpersonal relationships unlike the male dominated model currently in charge.... If all women are the Devi...then why are the men abusing them, beating and raping them????if we truly understood this doctrine and what it really means we could but live in profound respect of our dear Sisters, Mothers, and Daughters...We would feel blessed by their presence in our lives.... So the Sakta doctrine is not merely intellectual stuff. it has a real application in this world, and if followed and understood, would result in a revolution of morals and ethics thru out the world....but we men are afraid to admit that the Devi DOES incarnate as our own Beloved Women.....as our mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters.....(and even as our own miserable selves!!!) The "strict sampradayas" appear to me to be lost in male dominated rhetoric...which continues to keep women on the bottom of society...it's really time for a change.... Do you think that Krsna mistreated His beloved women, or that He thought of Himself as "superior" to them or separate from them? i don't think so!!! Amma says that She sees all of us as the Divine itself...embodied in these children...so when She meets us...and goes to the front of the hall, She bows in utmost humility....full pranam on the floor for several minutes....and it's not a fake thing....you can see it by the untiring, loving way that She connects with Her Devotees.... i suspect that Krsna was just like Her....so humble that if you weren't "awake" to it you would entirely miss who HE was..and Is... the same with Amma...the non-devotees look and see a cute little overweight Indian lady in white...but nothing special, save that Her smiles are awesome.... as one of the Swamis put it...there are 3 classes of human beings...the first class is like very fine steel, which when brought close to the magnet immediately becomes magnetised itself, and keeps the magnetism after the magnet is drawn away....the most part of the devotees however are more like cast iron....they get immediately magnetised by the presence of the Guru...but when the Guru goes...the magnetism goes too...and they slip back into the old Life.... but we can be glad that we are not the 3rd type of human being...who is like a block of wood....and is not in the least magnetised in the presence of the Magnet(Mahatma)...doesn't feel anything, doesn't change at all, doesn't grow in Divine Love....thinks that the SatGuru is just an ordinary person and laughs at Her.....thank heavens we are not in that crowd.... As Sri Ramakrsna used to say...(and as Mani says) The SatGuru is One...SatGuru is Satchidananda alone.... Sri Ramaksna wouldn't allow anyone to address Him as Guru..as He felt that God alone was Guru..Satchidananda....and that all Human Gurus were but embodiments of this One Satguru... He also used to say "Bhakta/ Bhagavatam/ Bhagavan"....indicating that the Devotees, the sacred books, and the Deity...Bhagavan were the same...identical to His mystical vision.....All is One by that Sakta view...the Truth is One and the paths to it are many!!!This great saint knew what He was talking about too, as He had practiced the mystical practices of all the major faiths in His time...and found that they ALL led to the SAME DIVINE...... In Amma's Divine Love, and in Her Service, this little child of Hers salutes You all most humbly, as ever, your own self, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 visvanathan schrieb: > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > Namaste All!! > > a great discussion on gurus, avatars and such...it's nice to see Dasji > back in form too!!!love your postings Dasji!!!...even if i don't > always agree with them...they are very well put.... Dear KV Great posting! As a discussion on "magnetism", as you have described: Mother Durga manifests herself manifold, throughout time. She "preserves", she is "Ying". But she created Yang to seek new possibilities. So yang tries to dominate. Pity. Has to be checked! Avatars are needed to keep the world in some form of equilibrium, to bring light to those who grope in darkness. But those who think - I mean really think! - need no avatars. I admire and adore all the great teachers and avatars. I adore them because they say what I believe in! I have never learned anything from them! I read what they said and if I find it reflects my own feelings or knowledge I accept them as genuine teachers. None of them has ever converted me in any sense, only agreed with me! So the adoration of a guru is a subjective matter. One adores the teacher who teaches what one already believes!.... But there are people who do not think, who have NO BELIEF. An avatar guides these people, makes them think - like Jesus, Sai Baba or Amma, with illustrating stories. People like Das - or me or you - admire the avatars, but do not need them spiritually. If I have a particular mundane problem I ask Mother Meera for help, for she lives in Germany. She helps. Or I pray to Ammachi and she helps too. But this is only like consulting a doctor or lawyer! My faith in God is not involved, the avatar acts as God, but does not fill me with faith. I have to win this faith myself! I appeal to the avatars because I have the faith! Did Ammachi lead you to God or did God lead you to Ammachi, His/Her local representative agent? regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 pursottam wrote: > So it would be interesting to get a > list of authorised incarnations of Devi Maa. > Dear Pursottam, I share your interest in the historical/puranic sense. but may I offer this thought: The list of avatars ended more or less in the puranic period, which was all BC. 19th century scholars brought this down to some years AD, but it was BS! Sri Sankara was born in - or around - 547 BC, not 800 AD as in history books. Buddha lived around 1800 BC, not 600 BC. So it is useless to look for puranic predictions regarding our later avatars like Chaitanya, Sai Baba, Ammachi etc. But lack of mention in those books does not detract from their status! After all, no purana - which means "old story" essentially - can predict for eternity. Puranas were only semi historical texts, with a lot of hidden information. They were NOT Ithihasa = history. Many of the puranic stories were only allegories, not actual occurrences as told. As an example, Druva was not a king or emperor or person at all, but the overall ruling principle of Stability in the creation of the solar system. The Druva story is a wonderful example of the knowledge of the ancients regarding the creation of the solar system! since you seem to read a lot of sanskrit literature: when you find the word "chakravarthy" it refers to a global force, not any person. It is usually understood as "emperor", but there was never an emperor who ruled over the entire earth. But forces like gravity rule over the entire earth! also the word "sarpa" refers to radiation, a very fast motion like waves, whereas "naga" could mean snake, elephant or a naked dweller in the forest, - or something symbolized by these! regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Great posting! As a discussion on "magnetism", as you have described: But those who think - I mean really think! - need no avatars. I admire and adore all the great teachers and avatars. I adore them because they say what I believe in! I have never learned anything from them! I read what they said and if I find it reflects my own feelings or knowledge I accept them as genuine teachers. None of them has ever converted me in any sense, only agreed with me! So the adoration of a guru is a subjective matter. One adores the teacher who teaches what one already believes!.... Mani, I am glad you wrote this- because, guess what: you agree with me, or I agree with you. I would say one more thing- I strongly believe that everybody takes from any knowledge as much as he is able to, or ready to. No matter how good the teacher, avatar maybe- one will get only that much that he is able to. But there are people who do not think, who have NO BELIEF. An avatar guides these people, makes them think - like Jesus, Sai Baba or Amma, with illustrating stories. In my feeling, once the avatars made "those without belief" think, they will follow the path mentioned above. I guess, an initial enthusiasm, verging on blindess and "stupidity", is a necessary step before the "structure", belief, appears, and the person grows in the process. "when the student is ready, the teacher appears"- isn't that true? So, whoever the avatar may be, if he inspires positive toughts, growth, I would have respect for him and his followers, as well.. If I have a particular mundane problem I ask Mother Meera for help, for she lives in Germany. She helps. Or I pray to Ammachi and she helps too. But this is only like consulting a doctor or lawyer! Mani, who are they? What kind of help do you get? My faith in God is not involved, the avatar acts as God, but does not fill me with faith. I have to win this faith myself! I appeal to the avatars because I have the faith!- I guess it works both ways. Did Ammachi lead you to God or did God lead you to Ammachi, His/Her local representative agent? Sure, faith is inside us. Interesting subject, indeed. Regards, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Guru Gobind Dono Khare, Kake Lagoon Paon Balihari Guru aap hain, jo Gobind Diyo Mila Guru and God both are before me and whose feet should I touch first. Guru, you are great, because you led me to God. This is a famous couplet in Hindi and is very often recited whenever anything related to a Guru comes up. My humble suggestion on this ongoing discussion, why bring in gurus and gods into debate and discussion. Nectar is for consuming, not for exhibiting. Enjoy the bliss those who are fortunate and look for it, those who are not. regards, Manoj _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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