Lagna Sign Dispute

[Guest guest]

Dear Nicholas

 

Thank you for your information which is very well appreciated.

 

<<During Prabhupada's lifetime there was also contoversy as to the correct

lagna.>>

 

You are right about this. However, we know that an astrologer predicted to

Prabhupada's father that Prabhupada was going to travel to the West and start a

new religious movement. The time given and the predictions given by that

astrologer eventually came true. This means that at least one astrologer had

the correct birth time provided by the father. I have come across Indians that

do not remember the time of their birth but it is recorded in their horoscopes

kept by the family and from that information, we can draw their horoscopes

again. It is very possible that Prabhupada forgot about his time of birth but

remembered his horoscope. Although he was also an astrologer, it is possible as

well that he stop practicing astrology because he completly surrendered his life

to the service of Krishna. Also, once he started to have disciples from the

West, he wanted the best for them and therefore he told them to study Vedic arts

and sciences including jyotish. In the process of teaching some of his

disciples, he told them to calculate his own horoscope giving them a clue, Mars

and the Moon in the 6th house, meaning Dhanus lagna. At that time few of his

disciples were ready to understand jyotish, but under Prabhupada's guidance they

advanced nicely into that science. Pradyumna prabhu was one of his closest

companions and a Sanskrit scholar and by the time i got a reading from him in

Nouvelle Mayapur in the South of France in July 1976, he was an expert jyotish.

Patita Pavana was also close to Prabhupada, i met him in the Hare Krishna temple

in Amsterdam in September 1973 and he was making plans to go to India for few

years to study Vedic culture. When i met him again at the beginning of 1976, he

was studying astrology and few years later he became an expert in jyotish. It

would be nice to hear from Pradyumna and Pavan their opinion about Prabhupada's

lagna.

 

<<Pandit Ojha who stuck with Capricorn as given by Srila Prabhupada correctly

predicted his demise in November 1977 due to Ketu's natal placement in the

8th and Saturn the lagna Lord transitting the 8th from Lagna while the 8th

Lord the Sun was debilitated.Others who rectified it to Sagittarius Lagna

did not forsee this eventuality >>

 

In my opinion, Pandit Ojha is a good astrologer (i do not know is he is still

around but his books are) and if he correctly predicted his demise in November

1977, we should give him his credits. However, we know as astrologers that to

predict death is almost impossible to do so. Yes, once in a while may be

possible but at the end only Krishna knows, perhaps mother Durga that gave us

this bodies knows as well or even Lord Brahma as the architect of the universe

or Lord Yamaraja as the Superintendent of death, but really it is only Krishna

that knows everything. So, if other astrologers following Dhanus lagna failed

to forsee his departure is not really a failure in following that sign.

 

Regarding Capricorn lagna as given by Srila Prabhupada to Ojha is a

contradiction because years before Prabhupada said Sagittarius lagna. So, here

we need the clarification from persons that were close to Prabhupada to give us

the right lagna. We know that Prabhupada was more in the spiritual platform

than in this one and especially at the end of his life he did not care much

about jyotish. If he did so was because of love for his disciples. Jyotish is

part of the karma kanda section of the vedas and therefore it is helpful while

dealing in this platform of karma - material activities, but in the spiritual

connection, we do not need jyotish. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita "just

surrender to Me and i will take care of you". When his disciples out of love

for him wanted to take care of him, and bought a blue Saphire to protect his

health, he accept it out of love and when he put it on his finger he said "

where is the bride?".

 

 

<<Santhanam was given the rectified time rather than the original one.>>

 

In my opinion, for what i have been told in confidence (and therefore i can not

disclose) i am sure that Prabhupada said that Sagittarius is the right lagna and

the time given by Santhanam is the correct one.

 

<<I expect this contoversy to be around a long while (maybe 10,000 years) and

do not expect my tiny voice to make any difference >>

 

Like you Nicholas, i also have a tiny voice and i do not expect to convince

anyone. This is only my opinion and everybody is free to follow what their

nature tells them to do.

 

Hare Krishna

 

Natabara Das

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi!

 

The discussion is about a saint and the criterion is his demise. There are those

who are afraid of death, those who are unwilling to die, those who long for

death, those who accept death as inevitable, and those who leave this earth,

knowing that their work is done, and that they can return to "vaikunta", perhaps

to return when the earth needs them.

 

To which category did Srila P.belong? I am sure he was fully aware of his time

of departure, just as Swami Yogananda did. The dasa/bukthi at the moment of

departure must be judged as a moment of bliss! Using western sidereal methods I

have mostly found that death occurs at a "peaceful time of happiness", except in

cases of accident - but even then the positive side was prominent. In such cases

I think the soul accepts the release, despite unfulfilled wishes.

 

Costa gives around 04:00 as the TOB. Using =4:10pm and my corrected

Chandrahari´s ayanamsa I get Ke/Me/Ve/Ju for 14 Nov. 1977. This reflects death,

but also the exalted spiritual moment.

 

Chandrahari´s calculation was not quite exact. I checked the position of the

star Mula (lamda Scorpionis) for 1900 AD 1. January. Its tropical position =

ayanamsa was 23°11´16". Based on a few horoscopes I have "corrected" the

ayanamsa to 23°!2´5". But this may be erroneous. But I feel the right ayanamsa

is around that value, for it seems to have the only "vedic" backing - alone in

the name "Mula" = Origin, besides the tantric that Chandrahari offers.

 

Thanks for reading - and hoping I won´t get angry mail -

Mani

[Guest guest]

Hi!

Hi again,

 

Goofed it. The TOB I have taken is 16;10.

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

Hello

Hear is a copy of a reading that was given to His Grace SP shortly

before he left the planet. Whoever gave this must have used Cap Lagna

because Ketu is in the 8th. It was probably Ojha. Ojha is pretty sharp & I

had him do my chart back in 1984 & he predicted some accurate events that

took place in my life. His book "Predictive Astrology of the Hindus" is

probably well worth the read.

 

ROOM CONVERSATION OCT 14,1977 VRNDAVANA INDIA

Tamala Krsna: I'll be in the next room, Srila Prabhupada. (break) Shall I

get the report? You want me to get the report of the astrologer?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Here's Kirtanananda Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So the final inauspicious day is not come yet.

Tamala Krsna: Final inauspicious day?

Prabhupada: Means death.

Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? The final inauspicious date?

Prabhupada: Yes. This is the... That means death.

Tamala Krsna: Fatal day.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: I'll just look. (pause) What does this mean? "Ketu Mahadasa?"

What is the meaning of that, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Ketu, the most inauspicious.

Tamala Krsna: Well, it says, "You're presently undergoing the fag end of

Ketu Mahadasa, and it will last until l3th of January, 1978." It mentions a

lot of things. I don't understand these astrological terms. I could read

them to you. If you understand them, I can read them to you. I don't

understand them. Just like I just mentioned Ketu Mahadasa. To me that didn't

mean anything, 'cause I didn't understand it.

Bhakti-caru: Pradyumna understands.

Tamala Krsna: Where is he?

Jayadvaita: In the reception room.

Tamala Krsna: Should I read these out loud to you? Should I read these

things to you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Should... Pradyumna is here also. He's in the next room.

Should I call him?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Get Pradyumna. (break) ...is that end of the Ketu Mahadasa,

because it says, "Astrologically it is up to eighty-one years, four months,

approximate." Eighty-one years, four months would make it about January

1978. So that's the date given, January 13, 1978. Pradyumna, why don't you

come over here and read this, 'cause I can't understand all these things.

Just read loud and clear to Prabhupada. Start here.

Pradyumna: "Srila Prabhupadaji is at present undergoing the fag end of Ketu

Mahadasa, and it will last till 13th January, 1978. Ketu is in the eighth

house with Sun, lord of eighth house, and Guru, Brhaspati, lord of the

twelfth and third houses. Mercury and Ketu started from 16.1 1977. Budha...

Budha sasthesa(?) also." Sasthesa means lord of house of disease. That is

not good. Budha is Mercury. Mercury is sasthesa also. Disease. That means

disease, Budha. "Sani has gone to eighth house, house of death, from 7th

September, 1977."

Tamala Krsna: That's Prabhupada's appearance day.

Pradyumna: "Sani is lagnesa in the eighth house and in transit over Jupiter

from 24th September, exact, and Ketu from 16th September, exact."

Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? Unless you know astrology...

Pradyumna: That is not good, with this Sani and Ketu. "A negative effect

continues throughout October 1977 to November 1977, and from lst of

December, 1977, Saturn becomes almost stationary." This is not a good time.

"And becomes more malefic." That means it goes vakrabhava, it goes

retrograde, and that is not good. "In January 1978..." It is dangerous time.

"In January 1978 to April 1978, it again traverses the same degrees and

becomes stagnant on Jupiter." In other words, Sani, Saturn, is going over,

has just gone over some planets, and that was very dangerous. And it will go

up. And then it will become very, very slow, and it will stop, and then it

will reverse and go over the same planets again. And that again will be very

dangerous time. Vakrabhava: it will become retrograde, will go in reverse

motion. "It again traverses the same degrees and becomes stagnant on Jupiter

and Ketu in the last week of February 1978." Stagnant means becomes

stationary. It won't move.

Tamala Krsna: For how long?

Pradyumna: That will only be for a day or two. It becomes very slow again,

and then it will start up again. When it becomes slow it does this(?) again.

So that is why he's saying that is a bad time. You have this bad time when

it went over, now it comes back, and it will start again. "The native has

dirghayu, above seventy-five years of longevity." Means you have dirghayu,

long life, above seventy-five years. But he cannot say how long. In the

prasna-lagna... He has done prasna. Questioned how long will Prabhupada

live, he will do prasna, special chart. He will make calculation. "In the

prasna-lagna, Moon applies to Jupiter on the first day..."

Tamala Krsna: What day is this? Fourth October.

Pradyumna: Moon applies the first day... Moon applies to Mars on the second

day, Moon applies to Sani... Moon applies to Sukra, mixed. He has asked...

When someone asks a question, that is prasna. So when you ask a question, he

will do a special chart and he will calculate to find just the answer to

that question. So he has done this for some prasna, and he's saying that in

this prasna question he has given the positions. And in the eighth house...

The Moon and Jupiter and Mars are in the eighth house. He says in

parenthesis, "Very bad. The patient may not recover." These planets are in

the eighth house, so eighth house is... That is not a good house. "Sani,

with Venus in kendra." That is also not good. Sani is bad, Venus is good,

but Sani..., Saturn, is bad. "In varsa-lagna." Then he has made another

chart for varsa-phala, to see what will happen this year, beginning of year,

what happened. When the year began, he'll make another varsa-phala.

Tamala Krsna: What is that? In the beginning of the coming year?

Pradyumna: Well, sometimes they make varsa-phala for the birthday. Whatever

Prabhupada's birthday is, on that day this year they make one. On the day it

was September 7, he'll make a chart exactly at that time, and then he'll see

where the planets are. That will tell what will come till next birthday.

Tamala Krsna: So when did he do it for? On the birthday?

Pradyumna: I don't know which day he's done it for. It's probably done it

for the birthday this year. He's given some positions, and he said, "Not

good." He said, "Mars is with Saturn in conjunction. Very bad.

Hospitalization and ill health intensified in the present year. The days not

good when the Moon passes in the 22nd, 23rd naksatra."

Tamala Krsna: When is that? Then he gives those days.

Pradyumna: "27th, 28th September."

Tamala Krsna: That's past.

Pradyumna: "And 24th, 25th October, and 20th, 21st, 22nd November, and 3rd

and 4th December. In the prasna-lagna, lord eighth house, enemy of Saturn,

Surya will apply to Rahu." This is coming now... This is past. That is on

28th...

Tamala Krsna: Eighth October.

Pradyumna: Yes. That was 8th.

Tamala Krsna: Prasna-lagna.

Pradyumna: "Surya will come, transited Rahu." This was on 8th October.

Tamala Krsna: "Strength of lagna."

Pradyumna: Now he is telling in this prasna-lagna some points. When he did

this prasna, lord of lagna was Mangala, or Mars. This lord of lagna is in

eighth house. That is not a good sign. First he says, "The strength of lagna

means nil." Lagna means health. Lagna means the personality and the health.

So strength of lagna, strength of health--nil. "Two, seventh house. Seventh

and second house are disease--strong." Health is weak and disease is strong.

"Posited in tenth house. The native will not come up..."

Tamala Krsna: Astrologically.

Pradyumna: "...astrologically."

Tamala Krsna: What is that?

Pradyumna: I don't know what it means, but... It means astrologically it

doesn't seem he is... It is not very good prediction. And third point is

that the fourth lord is aspecting. "Regarding the medicine--will not give

any relief. The native will make a fight for life as Surya, Mangala are good

friends, and Sani and Sukra are satru, or enemies. There is no benefics in

nine, six, eleven and three."

Tamala Krsna: What does that mean?

Pradyumna: These are houses. Benefic means a good planet. So ninth house is

a good house. There is no... Six is house of disease, but there's nothing

good there, only something bad. Ninth house is prosperity. Nothing good

there. Eleventh house is gain. Nothing good there. Third house, not so...

But it aspects the ninth. Nothing. Nothing to bring the opposite. "Mangala

indicates effects of..."

Tamala Krsna: Sakini.(?)

Pradyumna: Sakini? "Pitar Jaladevi(?) combined. Difficulty in recovery."

Then another point. "The seventh dasa starts." So this is Venus, Sukra-dasa.

"The seventh dasa starts on l3th January, 1978. This is ending of seven

years."

Tamala Krsna: For three years it goes. Three years.

Pradyumna: Oh, I'm sorry. "We have noticed that the periods are all negative

until March or April 1978, and main trouble was due to Sani. We have

suggested that the blue sapphire be tried, and he should keep it, putting."

He should keep it on. "Hospitalization and travels indicated. The only

remedy in this case is to do maha-mrtyum jaya japa and havana. Previously

also, now also, we have recommend: Siva is the presiding Deity of Sani, and

with this the native will be able to overcome disease and life span

increases. Astrologically, it is up to eighty-one years, four months,

approximately. Japa and havana..."

Kirtanananda: What is up to eighty-four years?

Pradyumna: Eighty-one years, four months.

Kirtanananda: Is what?

Pradyumna: That is astrologically the length of life approximately.

 

 

With Regards

manvantara

-

natabara <natabara

GJlist <gjlist >

Wednesday, October 25, 2000 6:58 PM

[gjlist] Lagna Sign Dispute

 

 

> Dear Nicholas

>

> Thank you for your information which is very well appreciated.

>

> <<During Prabhupada's lifetime there was also contoversy as to the correct

lagna.>>

>

> You are right about this. However, we know that an astrologer predicted

to Prabhupada's father that Prabhupada was going to travel to the West and

start a new religious movement. The time given and the predictions given by

that astrologer eventually came true. This means that at least one

astrologer had the correct birth time provided by the father. I have come

across Indians that do not remember the time of their birth but it is

recorded in their horoscopes kept by the family and from that information,

we can draw their horoscopes again. It is very possible that Prabhupada

forgot about his time of birth but remembered his horoscope. Although he

was also an astrologer, it is possible as well that he stop practicing

astrology because he completly surrendered his life to the service of

Krishna. Also, once he started to have disciples from the West, he wanted

the best for them and therefore he told them to study Vedic arts and

sciences including jyotish. In the process of teaching some of his

disciples, he told them to calculate his own horoscope giving them a clue,

Mars and the Moon in the 6th house, meaning Dhanus lagna. At that time few

of his disciples were ready to understand jyotish, but under Prabhupada's

guidance they advanced nicely into that science. Pradyumna prabhu was one

of his closest companions and a Sanskrit scholar and by the time i got a

reading from him in Nouvelle Mayapur in the South of France in July 1976, he

was an expert jyotish. Patita Pavana was also close to Prabhupada, i met

him in the Hare Krishna temple in Amsterdam in September 1973 and he was

making plans to go to India for few years to study Vedic culture. When i

met him again at the beginning of 1976, he was studying astrology and few

years later he became an expert in jyotish. It would be nice to hear from

Pradyumna and Pavan their opinion about Prabhupada's lagna.

>

> <<Pandit Ojha who stuck with Capricorn as given by Srila Prabhupada

correctly

> predicted his demise in November 1977 due to Ketu's natal placement in the

> 8th and Saturn the lagna Lord transitting the 8th from Lagna while the 8th

> Lord the Sun was debilitated.Others who rectified it to Sagittarius Lagna

> did not forsee this eventuality >>

>

 

>

[Guest guest]

Manvantara,

 

So far on this list I have heard two different testimonies about which is

Shrila Prabhupada's lagna, both involving Shrila Prabhupada's personal

recognition, that both were shown to Shrila Prabhupada. For all I know,

Shrila Prabhupada just heard out Oja to be polite and didn't want to make an

issue of anything. Did Shrila Prabhupada request the reading? Did he confirm

it or take it seriously when he received it? Did he make any comment at all?

Unless you had an opportunity to interview with Shrila Prabhupada to confirm

things, I'd say it would be hard to go by anything except a solid,

independent understanding of astrology.

 

Capricorn as lagna would have to have produced an older brother- and more

than one sibling- and could not have produced the type of book distribution

and authorship which Shrila Prabhupada enjoyed.

 

Ketu dasha under Capricorn lagna would have been the pits straight through.

 

I have even considered the possibility of the eighth house situation under

Capricorn being a vipreet raj yoga, but the existence of an older sister

with Mars owning and aspecting the 11th is kind of hard to swallow.

 

Can we employ some actual interpretational skill and compare indications

under the two lagnas? We should be able to know by looking.

 

Dharmapada Dasa

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Hello

> Hear is a copy of a reading that was given to His Grace SP shortly

> before he left the planet. Whoever gave this must have used Cap Lagna

> because Ketu is in the 8th. It was probably Ojha. Ojha is pretty sharp & I

> had him do my chart back in 1984 & he predicted some accurate events that

> took place in my life. His book "Predictive Astrology of the Hindus" is

> probably well worth the read.

>

> ROOM CONVERSATION OCT 14,1977 VRNDAVANA INDIA

> Tamala Krsna: I'll be in the next room, Srila Prabhupada. (break) Shall I

> get the report? You want me to get the report of the astrologer?

> Prabhupada: Hm.

> Tamala Krsna: Okay. Here's Kirtanananda Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada.

> Prabhupada: So the final inauspicious day is not come yet.

> Tamala Krsna: Final inauspicious day?

> Prabhupada: Means death.

> Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? The final inauspicious date?

> Prabhupada: Yes. This is the... That means death.

> Tamala Krsna: Fatal day.

> Prabhupada: Yes.

> Tamala Krsna: I'll just look. (pause) What does this mean? "Ketu

Mahadasa?"

> What is the meaning of that, Srila Prabhupada?

> Prabhupada: Ketu, the most inauspicious.

> Tamala Krsna: Well, it says, "You're presently undergoing the fag end of

> Ketu Mahadasa, and it will last until l3th of January, 1978." It mentions

a

> lot of things. I don't understand these astrological terms. I could read

> them to you. If you understand them, I can read them to you. I don't

> understand them. Just like I just mentioned Ketu Mahadasa. To me that

didn't

> mean anything, 'cause I didn't understand it.

> Bhakti-caru: Pradyumna understands.

> Tamala Krsna: Where is he?

> Jayadvaita: In the reception room.

> Tamala Krsna: Should I read these out loud to you? Should I read these

> things to you?

> Prabhupada: Yes.

> Tamala Krsna: Should... Pradyumna is here also. He's in the next room.

> Should I call him?

> Prabhupada: Yes.

> Tamala Krsna: Get Pradyumna. (break) ...is that end of the Ketu Mahadasa,

> because it says, "Astrologically it is up to eighty-one years, four

months,

> approximate." Eighty-one years, four months would make it about January

> 1978. So that's the date given, January 13, 1978. Pradyumna, why don't you

> come over here and read this, 'cause I can't understand all these things.

> Just read loud and clear to Prabhupada. Start here.

> Pradyumna: "Srila Prabhupadaji is at present undergoing the fag end of

Ketu

> Mahadasa, and it will last till 13th January, 1978. Ketu is in the eighth

> house with Sun, lord of eighth house, and Guru, Brhaspati, lord of the

> twelfth and third houses. Mercury and Ketu started from 16.1 1977.

Budha...

> Budha sasthesa(?) also." Sasthesa means lord of house of disease. That is

> not good. Budha is Mercury. Mercury is sasthesa also. Disease. That means

> disease, Budha. "Sani has gone to eighth house, house of death, from 7th

> September, 1977."

> Tamala Krsna: That's Prabhupada's appearance day.

> Pradyumna: "Sani is lagnesa in the eighth house and in transit over

Jupiter

> from 24th September, exact, and Ketu from 16th September, exact."

> Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? Unless you know astrology...

> Pradyumna: That is not good, with this Sani and Ketu. "A negative effect

> continues throughout October 1977 to November 1977, and from lst of

> December, 1977, Saturn becomes almost stationary." This is not a good

time.

> "And becomes more malefic." That means it goes vakrabhava, it goes

> retrograde, and that is not good. "In January 1978..." It is dangerous

time.

> "In January 1978 to April 1978, it again traverses the same degrees and

> becomes stagnant on Jupiter." In other words, Sani, Saturn, is going over,

> has just gone over some planets, and that was very dangerous. And it will

go

> up. And then it will become very, very slow, and it will stop, and then it

> will reverse and go over the same planets again. And that again will be

very

> dangerous time. Vakrabhava: it will become retrograde, will go in reverse

> motion. "It again traverses the same degrees and becomes stagnant on

Jupiter

> and Ketu in the last week of February 1978." Stagnant means becomes

> stationary. It won't move.

> Tamala Krsna: For how long?

> Pradyumna: That will only be for a day or two. It becomes very slow again,

> and then it will start up again. When it becomes slow it does this(?)

again.

> So that is why he's saying that is a bad time. You have this bad time when

> it went over, now it comes back, and it will start again. "The native has

> dirghayu, above seventy-five years of longevity." Means you have dirghayu,

> long life, above seventy-five years. But he cannot say how long. In the

> prasna-lagna... He has done prasna. Questioned how long will Prabhupada

> live, he will do prasna, special chart. He will make calculation. "In the

> prasna-lagna, Moon applies to Jupiter on the first day..."

> Tamala Krsna: What day is this? Fourth October.

> Pradyumna: Moon applies the first day... Moon applies to Mars on the

second

> day, Moon applies to Sani... Moon applies to Sukra, mixed. He has asked...

> When someone asks a question, that is prasna. So when you ask a question,

he

> will do a special chart and he will calculate to find just the answer to

> that question. So he has done this for some prasna, and he's saying that

in

> this prasna question he has given the positions. And in the eighth

house...

> The Moon and Jupiter and Mars are in the eighth house. He says in

> parenthesis, "Very bad. The patient may not recover." These planets are in

> the eighth house, so eighth house is... That is not a good house. "Sani,

> with Venus in kendra." That is also not good. Sani is bad, Venus is good,

> but Sani..., Saturn, is bad. "In varsa-lagna." Then he has made another

> chart for varsa-phala, to see what will happen this year, beginning of

year,

> what happened. When the year began, he'll make another varsa-phala.

> Tamala Krsna: What is that? In the beginning of the coming year?

> Pradyumna: Well, sometimes they make varsa-phala for the birthday.

Whatever

> Prabhupada's birthday is, on that day this year they make one. On the day

it

> was September 7, he'll make a chart exactly at that time, and then he'll

see

> where the planets are. That will tell what will come till next birthday.

> Tamala Krsna: So when did he do it for? On the birthday?

> Pradyumna: I don't know which day he's done it for. It's probably done it

> for the birthday this year. He's given some positions, and he said, "Not

> good." He said, "Mars is with Saturn in conjunction. Very bad.

> Hospitalization and ill health intensified in the present year. The days

not

> good when the Moon passes in the 22nd, 23rd naksatra."

> Tamala Krsna: When is that? Then he gives those days.

> Pradyumna: "27th, 28th September."

> Tamala Krsna: That's past.

> Pradyumna: "And 24th, 25th October, and 20th, 21st, 22nd November, and 3rd

> and 4th December. In the prasna-lagna, lord eighth house, enemy of Saturn,

> Surya will apply to Rahu." This is coming now... This is past. That is on

> 28th...

> Tamala Krsna: Eighth October.

> Pradyumna: Yes. That was 8th.

> Tamala Krsna: Prasna-lagna.

> Pradyumna: "Surya will come, transited Rahu." This was on 8th October.

> Tamala Krsna: "Strength of lagna."

> Pradyumna: Now he is telling in this prasna-lagna some points. When he did

> this prasna, lord of lagna was Mangala, or Mars. This lord of lagna is in

> eighth house. That is not a good sign. First he says, "The strength of

lagna

> means nil." Lagna means health. Lagna means the personality and the

health.

> So strength of lagna, strength of health--nil. "Two, seventh house.

Seventh

> and second house are disease--strong." Health is weak and disease is

strong.

> "Posited in tenth house. The native will not come up..."

> Tamala Krsna: Astrologically.

> Pradyumna: "...astrologically."

> Tamala Krsna: What is that?

> Pradyumna: I don't know what it means, but... It means astrologically it

> doesn't seem he is... It is not very good prediction. And third point is

> that the fourth lord is aspecting. "Regarding the medicine--will not give

> any relief. The native will make a fight for life as Surya, Mangala are

good

> friends, and Sani and Sukra are satru, or enemies. There is no benefics in

> nine, six, eleven and three."

> Tamala Krsna: What does that mean?

> Pradyumna: These are houses. Benefic means a good planet. So ninth house

is

> a good house. There is no... Six is house of disease, but there's nothing

> good there, only something bad. Ninth house is prosperity. Nothing good

> there. Eleventh house is gain. Nothing good there. Third house, not so...

> But it aspects the ninth. Nothing. Nothing to bring the opposite. "Mangala

> indicates effects of..."

> Tamala Krsna: Sakini.(?)

> Pradyumna: Sakini? "Pitar Jaladevi(?) combined. Difficulty in recovery."

> Then another point. "The seventh dasa starts." So this is Venus,

Sukra-dasa.

> "The seventh dasa starts on l3th January, 1978. This is ending of seven

> years."

> Tamala Krsna: For three years it goes. Three years.

> Pradyumna: Oh, I'm sorry. "We have noticed that the periods are all

negative

> until March or April 1978, and main trouble was due to Sani. We have

> suggested that the blue sapphire be tried, and he should keep it,

putting."

> He should keep it on. "Hospitalization and travels indicated. The only

> remedy in this case is to do maha-mrtyum jaya japa and havana. Previously

> also, now also, we have recommend: Siva is the presiding Deity of Sani,

and

> with this the native will be able to overcome disease and life span

> increases. Astrologically, it is up to eighty-one years, four months,

> approximately. Japa and havana..."

> Kirtanananda: What is up to eighty-four years?

> Pradyumna: Eighty-one years, four months.

> Kirtanananda: Is what?

> Pradyumna: That is astrologically the length of life approximately.

>

>

> With Regards

> manvantara

> -

> natabara <natabara

> GJlist <gjlist >

> Wednesday, October 25, 2000 6:58 PM

> [gjlist] Lagna Sign Dispute

>

>

> > Dear Nicholas

> >

> > Thank you for your information which is very well appreciated.

> >

> > <<During Prabhupada's lifetime there was also contoversy as to the

correct

> lagna.>>

> >

> > You are right about this. However, we know that an astrologer predicted

> to Prabhupada's father that Prabhupada was going to travel to the West and

> start a new religious movement. The time given and the predictions given

by

> that astrologer eventually came true. This means that at least one

> astrologer had the correct birth time provided by the father. I have come

> across Indians that do not remember the time of their birth but it is

> recorded in their horoscopes kept by the family and from that information,

> we can draw their horoscopes again. It is very possible that Prabhupada

> forgot about his time of birth but remembered his horoscope. Although he

> was also an astrologer, it is possible as well that he stop practicing

> astrology because he completly surrendered his life to the service of

> Krishna. Also, once he started to have disciples from the West, he wanted

> the best for them and therefore he told them to study Vedic arts and

> sciences including jyotish. In the process of teaching some of his

> disciples, he told them to calculate his own horoscope giving them a clue,

> Mars and the Moon in the 6th house, meaning Dhanus lagna. At that time

few

> of his disciples were ready to understand jyotish, but under Prabhupada's

> guidance they advanced nicely into that science. Pradyumna prabhu was one

> of his closest companions and a Sanskrit scholar and by the time i got a

> reading from him in Nouvelle Mayapur in the South of France in July 1976,

he

> was an expert jyotish. Patita Pavana was also close to Prabhupada, i met

> him in the Hare Krishna temple in Amsterdam in September 1973 and he was

> making plans to go to India for few years to study Vedic culture. When i

> met him again at the beginning of 1976, he was studying astrology and few

> years later he became an expert in jyotish. It would be nice to hear from

> Pradyumna and Pavan their opinion about Prabhupada's lagna.

> >

> > <<Pandit Ojha who stuck with Capricorn as given by Srila Prabhupada

> correctly

> > predicted his demise in November 1977 due to Ketu's natal placement in

the

> > 8th and Saturn the lagna Lord transitting the 8th from Lagna while the

8th

> > Lord the Sun was debilitated.Others who rectified it to Sagittarius

Lagna

> > did not forsee this eventuality >>

> >

>

> >

>

>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

>