Question about spiritual significators

[Guest guest]

Hi Karen

 

You wrote

<<Please help me. Is a person born with the karma for spiritual

advancment? Is this karma? How would you know?

I mean...Is it already written in the stars that one person

has a chance of getting off the circle of life and death

and another is bound in ignorance in his gross material body?

Thank You...>>

 

Das is supposed to answer this kind of questions but he is in "holidays",

therefore I am going to try to answer. The fact that we have a human body

means that our mother Durga (or mother nature as some say) has been giving us

this body as a gift for us to try to advance spiritually. However, once in

this body and due to many temptations, many of us give up the spiritual

career and enjoy or try to enjoy the material energy. Basically there are 3

kind of persons, those that are already liberated, those that are conditioned

and those that are trying for liberation. Liberated souls come here to help

us conditioned souls to wake up and give up our futil enjoyment of this

material illusion. The are some planetary combinations to recognize them.

For others that are struggling for liberation there are some planetary

combinations showing the chance of getting off the circle of life and death

but that those not guarantee his/her liberation. Srila Prabhupada mentions

in one of his books a beautiful story about a cobbler and a priest.

 

It goes something like this if a i remember well:

Narada Muni, a liberated soul, a saint that achieved liberation in the last

day of Brahma, came across a cobbler working under a huge three and told him

that he was going to see the Lord. Also, he went to see a priest and told

him the same. Both of them, the cobbler and the priest requested to ask the

Lord when they were going to achieve liberation. Narada Muni went to see

Krishna and ask Him the question. The Lord told Narada Muni that the cobbler

was going to achieve liberation after 100 more lives but that He didn't know

about the priest. Narada Muni was confused and said that how was possible

for God not to know about when a jiva (soul) is going to achieve liberation.

Lord Krishna told Narada Muni that when going back to earth, to tell them

that He was trying to pass an elephant trough the eye of a neddle. Back on

earth when Narada Muni told the cobbler that he was going to get liberation

after another 100 lives, the cobbler said "I am grateful to the Lord that

there is going to be only 100 more lives" and when told about the pastime of

the Lord, the cobbler said "Oh, my Lord can do everything He wants". Narada

asked him why he believed that story and the cobbler said that if the Lord

can design a huge three like the one he was sitting underneath and if every

three grows from a tiny seed, then the Lord can do anything. Because of

this, Narada Muni understood the devotion of the humble cobbler. Next,

Narada Muni went then to see the priest in the temple who was busy

worshipping the Murti of the Lord. When Narada told the priest that the Lord

did not know when he was going to be liberated, the priest exploded and said

"what is this nonsense, I am working hard to please Him, looking after His

temple and He does not know when I am going to achieve liberation? And when

told the pastime of the Lord with the elephant, the priest said that it was

not possible to do a such thing. Narada Muni understood that the cobbler had

more humility and devotion than the priest in the temple and that the pride

of the priest was a stumbling block for his liberation.

 

Astrologically, the significator for spirituality is Jupiter.

 

Do these lines answer your question?

 

Regards

 

Natabara Das

[Guest guest]

"Is a person born with the karma for spiritual

advancment? Is this karma? How would you know?

I mean...Is it already written in the stars that one person

has a chance of getting off the circle of life and death

and another is bound in ignorance in his gross material body?"

 

 

 

We can theoretically say yes or no to this question and be correct.

Saying that we are pre-determined to be reborn again is a Spiritual

Attack on all who hear it. It's not conducive and I think such a speaker

will suffer for that, as I have, because I've said that.

 

I think it is the way of progress, or more conducive and positive for

the progress of our own and all souls, to say that we can turn to Light,

Truth, Krishna, God, at any time, and that it's up to us. Indeed, in

Scripture, stories are there of great fools and plunderers who turned to

God at the last moment to their great eternal benefit. Scripture

encourages us to surrender at any point, to save ourselves, even if only

at the moment of death.

 

I have personally noticed that even greatly attached beings can make

tremendous sudden spiritual progress of heart and mind when faced with

the greatest personal calamities. So their chart might look one way, but

in fact, at the last moment, their heart goes another way. I think none

of us are qualified to really read it, so it remains a theoretical

argument alone.

 

I repeat:

 

None of us are qualified to read these high matters and be certain we

are correct.

 

Therefore:

 

It remains an intellectual or theoretical discussion ALONE.

 

And further therefore:

 

If you are serious about Loving yourself and others, you WILL take to

the side of always being encouraging of everyone, as the great lovers of

all ages have done. One of the worst things astrology has done in my

life at times is made me think too much about predetermism. It kills the

spirit to "try". I think that is a mistake.

 

Astrology requires us to be able to walk the razors edge of knowing that

there is destiny and fate, but that there is also life to be lived to

it's fullest. Because there is a map, we should not be bored with the

streets as we drive them, knowing that some map maker somewhere already

knows them all. We are still discovering them, so let them charm you. We

cannot stop learning from each turn in our lives, just because some

greater being knows them already. Imagine a child who is bored because

the parent is already over childhood. It's not healthy. Each generation

must live it's life to the fullest to learn and grow. Because someone

else has graduated the top grade, the beginners should not feel that

their is nothing to live for.

 

Jyotish can be a dampener on the Spirit in this way, so that is why it

is a secret science, because it will confuse many. It is a portal

through the illusion, but the illusion is Good (God) and should not be

abandoned. We must earn our way out of the illusion by living it fully

in dedicating it back to the Divinity to whom it belongs. This is a

process of growth which like other real accomplishments, cannot be

hurried, but can only be done step by step, the old tried and true way.

 

With all that said, yes, there are things in a chart that can tell us

who is thinking in what way certainly. Lord of 1st and Moon Lord have

alot to do with self, and the Moon, Sun, Mercury, these make up the

inner world alot. We can see the signs they are in, the houses, and make

some understanding of the merits of the person. Jupiter is important,

but so also are all the planets.

 

Spiritual Advancement or position is a wholistic process actually so the

whole chart is the way to see this. High souls see the whole chart, and

know where a persons lessons lie. Then from that vision, they can judge,

"oh this one is here and this person is there". But ultimately it's

right for each soul, where they are.

 

But we often wish to know if someone is near to us in their lesson set,

and thus compatible with us, or our faith system, or some such judgement

thing, and that is fine. To do that, we have to become familiar with

what factors in Jyotish produce the desired result such as religiosity,

or this or that, whatever we're into.

 

I have gotten familiar with the kinds of things that seem to make

Vaisnavas, at least some of them, and I look for those things. Maybe

it's not Vaisnava exactly, but like for example the nodes in Lagna or

Chandra Lagna, and 9th lord in 1 and 9, or 1st lord in 9th, 10th lord in

9th, planets in Aquarius, a materially decent chart with one serious

affliction such as 8th house or Scorpio or Aquarius placements etc.,

..... in other words, there's certain things I've noted that I can see do

certain things to people that make them more easy for me to relate to.

Too much Mercury is hard for me to relate to, like strong Virgo or

Gemini, or Mercury in prominence. I also personally like Jupiter in

natural dignity for itself. I relate to the normal scriptural Jupiter

way...not when it is placed otherwise.

 

So often what we are looking for in other words, is not ACTUALLY

SPIRITUAL placements, but rather, "spiritual placements that WE are

interested in". We're all essentially selfish, and as our selfishness

moves around the spectrum of possibilities through different births we

go through, we seek out like minded beings with whom we can more easily

live and enjoy our current karmic makeup.

 

Certainly Virgoan people are as valid as me, perhaps more so, but they

still are hard for me to be around, and vice versa. That doesn't mean

they or I are better, just different.

 

In general, it is taken that the Sun is the Karaka of the Soul, and

Jupiter is the Karaka of God and Guru, and classically these are key

points to consider therefore. The ninth house is of course important in

this regard, and always the Lagna and Chandra Lagna are as well, and the

9th from both.

 

Many of us know that Ketu can be a greatly Spiritualizing planet as

well, and that Saturn too is very potent to cause Spirituality under

certain conditions as seeing the futility of material life, and feeling

the pain of punishments here, can be great motivators towards service to

Divinity. Jupiter is more the good side of Spiritual Life, whereas Ketu

and Saturn represent the awarenesses of the bad side of being materially

attached.

 

Das Goravani

 

 

 

 

 

 

2852 Willamette St # 353

Eugene OR USA 97405

 

or

Fax: 541-343-0344

 

"Goravani Jyotish"

Vedic/Hindu Astrology Software

[Guest guest]

Well, first of all, there is what is possible and

there is what is likely. Also there are

opportunities. A very wise man once said that

"anybody can do anything, anytime, in any body". And

I think that is true, however, there are inborn

opportunities that come to us because of where we are

born, the type of bodies we are born with, etc. It is

more likely that a person will become a Buddhist monk

if they are born in Tibet close to a monastery to

Buddhist parents. It is more likely that Christie

Brinkley would become a model than Roseanne Barr.

Either is possible however one is certainly more

likely than the other. So we have free will and we

have gifts and we have limits ......and what do we

choose to do with it.

donna

Hare Krishna

 

 

 

"Is a person born with the karma for spiritual

advancment? Is this karma? How would you know?

I mean...Is it already written in the stars that one

person

has a chance of getting off the circle of life and

death

and another is bound in ignorance in his gross

material body?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!

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[Guest guest]

If we are to believe that astrology can indicate and describe an

individual's karmic map, then it must indicate at least important things and

directions, material and spiritual in the jaatak's chart. Free will exists

for us to move around within the fence that we build for ourselves through

our actions (karma). No one asked us to plant the fence in a certain place

and we can always work towards moving it further apart and allow ourselves

more room for moving about in the course of lifetimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>Das <>

>gjlist

>gjlist

>Re: [gjlist] Question about spiritual significators

>Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:53:21 -0700

>

>

>

>"Is a person born with the karma for spiritual

>advancment? Is this karma? How would you know?

>I mean...Is it already written in the stars that one person

>has a chance of getting off the circle of life and death

>and another is bound in ignorance in his gross material body?"

>

>

>

>We can theoretically say yes or no to this question and be correct.

>Saying that we are pre-determined to be reborn again is a Spiritual

>Attack on all who hear it. It's not conducive and I think such a speaker

>will suffer for that, as I have, because I've said that.

>

>I think it is the way of progress, or more conducive and positive for

>the progress of our own and all souls, to say that we can turn to Light,

>Truth, Krishna, God, at any time, and that it's up to us. Indeed, in

>Scripture, stories are there of great fools and plunderers who turned to

>God at the last moment to their great eternal benefit. Scripture

>encourages us to surrender at any point, to save ourselves, even if only

>at the moment of death.

>

>I have personally noticed that even greatly attached beings can make

>tremendous sudden spiritual progress of heart and mind when faced with

>the greatest personal calamities. So their chart might look one way, but

>in fact, at the last moment, their heart goes another way. I think none

>of us are qualified to really read it, so it remains a theoretical

>argument alone.

>

>I repeat:

>

>None of us are qualified to read these high matters and be certain we

>are correct.

>

>Therefore:

>

>It remains an intellectual or theoretical discussion ALONE.

>

>And further therefore:

>

>If you are serious about Loving yourself and others, you WILL take to

>the side of always being encouraging of everyone, as the great lovers of

>all ages have done. One of the worst things astrology has done in my

>life at times is made me think too much about predetermism. It kills the

>spirit to "try". I think that is a mistake.

>

>Astrology requires us to be able to walk the razors edge of knowing that

>there is destiny and fate, but that there is also life to be lived to

>it's fullest. Because there is a map, we should not be bored with the

>streets as we drive them, knowing that some map maker somewhere already

>knows them all. We are still discovering them, so let them charm you. We

>cannot stop learning from each turn in our lives, just because some

>greater being knows them already. Imagine a child who is bored because

>the parent is already over childhood. It's not healthy. Each generation

>must live it's life to the fullest to learn and grow. Because someone

>else has graduated the top grade, the beginners should not feel that

>their is nothing to live for.

>

>Jyotish can be a dampener on the Spirit in this way, so that is why it

>is a secret science, because it will confuse many. It is a portal

>through the illusion, but the illusion is Good (God) and should not be

>abandoned. We must earn our way out of the illusion by living it fully

>in dedicating it back to the Divinity to whom it belongs. This is a

>process of growth which like other real accomplishments, cannot be

>hurried, but can only be done step by step, the old tried and true way.

>

>With all that said, yes, there are things in a chart that can tell us

>who is thinking in what way certainly. Lord of 1st and Moon Lord have

>alot to do with self, and the Moon, Sun, Mercury, these make up the

>inner world alot. We can see the signs they are in, the houses, and make

>some understanding of the merits of the person. Jupiter is important,

>but so also are all the planets.

>

>Spiritual Advancement or position is a wholistic process actually so the

>whole chart is the way to see this. High souls see the whole chart, and

>know where a persons lessons lie. Then from that vision, they can judge,

>"oh this one is here and this person is there". But ultimately it's

>right for each soul, where they are.

>

>But we often wish to know if someone is near to us in their lesson set,

>and thus compatible with us, or our faith system, or some such judgement

>thing, and that is fine. To do that, we have to become familiar with

>what factors in Jyotish produce the desired result such as religiosity,

>or this or that, whatever we're into.

>

>I have gotten familiar with the kinds of things that seem to make

>Vaisnavas, at least some of them, and I look for those things. Maybe

>it's not Vaisnava exactly, but like for example the nodes in Lagna or

>Chandra Lagna, and 9th lord in 1 and 9, or 1st lord in 9th, 10th lord in

>9th, planets in Aquarius, a materially decent chart with one serious

>affliction such as 8th house or Scorpio or Aquarius placements etc.,

>.... in other words, there's certain things I've noted that I can see do

>certain things to people that make them more easy for me to relate to.

>Too much Mercury is hard for me to relate to, like strong Virgo or

>Gemini, or Mercury in prominence. I also personally like Jupiter in

>natural dignity for itself. I relate to the normal scriptural Jupiter

>way...not when it is placed otherwise.

>

>So often what we are looking for in other words, is not ACTUALLY

>SPIRITUAL placements, but rather, "spiritual placements that WE are

>interested in". We're all essentially selfish, and as our selfishness

>moves around the spectrum of possibilities through different births we

>go through, we seek out like minded beings with whom we can more easily

>live and enjoy our current karmic makeup.

>

>Certainly Virgoan people are as valid as me, perhaps more so, but they

>still are hard for me to be around, and vice versa. That doesn't mean

>they or I are better, just different.

>

>In general, it is taken that the Sun is the Karaka of the Soul, and

>Jupiter is the Karaka of God and Guru, and classically these are key

>points to consider therefore. The ninth house is of course important in

>this regard, and always the Lagna and Chandra Lagna are as well, and the

>9th from both.

>

>Many of us know that Ketu can be a greatly Spiritualizing planet as

>well, and that Saturn too is very potent to cause Spirituality under

>certain conditions as seeing the futility of material life, and feeling

>the pain of punishments here, can be great motivators towards service to

>Divinity. Jupiter is more the good side of Spiritual Life, whereas Ketu

>and Saturn represent the awarenesses of the bad side of being materially

>attached.

>

>Das Goravani

>

>

>

>

>

>

>2852 Willamette St # 353

>Eugene OR USA 97405

>

> or

>Fax: 541-343-0344

>

>"Goravani Jyotish"

>Vedic/Hindu Astrology Software

 

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