Guest guest Posted July 9, 2000 Report Share Posted July 9, 2000 My Dear Manas, Read your recent posts and felt to write this. Hopefully it's an appropriate response. I am pretty 'fundamental' myself, and I started this list as an alternative to the modern western mindset fully allowed on the "other" Jyotish list, so that the voice of Veda would have a voice on the Web, regarding Jyotish. There's room for everyone, including those of us who like the old orthodox way of being and seeing Vaisnavism. I defend Puri Dham's right to maintain it's ancient system of allowing only certain Hindu castes to enter the temple, and barring of White people, etc., from entrance. In fact, Sri Caitanya, our Lord, chose to live there for the last part of his life. His many friends who were Muslims, including Hari Das Thakur, a great Saint and who was dear to Sri Caitanya and his followers, was not allowed into the temple, and neither am I. Yes, my Guru taught me how to recognize the goodness in this rule of Puri Dham, and so I do recognize it as good. Hear my understanding of it if you like: There is nothing wrong with there being places on Earth which have very high and restrictive standards. There is 'sin' according to the strict ancient Vedic Krishna-Bhakti standards, all over the non-Vedic cultures including all White peoples, the Muslims, etc. Let there be ONE place or a FEW temples in India that have a blockade against all souls who took birth in non-Hindu cultures and families. Why not? If you love the Vedas, if you love Jaganath and Krishna, then you will understand. There needs to be one such place. Such temples have a right to exist. Some souls take birth in their spiritual progress at a point where they desire to live in such places and follow such tenets, rules, etc., while others need to feel that they are outside that, and yet their are others who feel they have a need to fight this mood. All have a right to exist speaking body-as-self-centrically, and speaking devotionally, all exist in different levels of spiritual growth, and those who live there, are ready for a high level of devotion. Either way, they have a right to exist. Even if they, the people who run Puri Dham Temple, are not up to their own standards, still, let the standards continue. Let there be the attempt to uphold the standards in one place, as like a bell ringing to keep alive the original mood and ways of the strict ancient culture. If the "barred" are humble as they are called to be by Veda, then NOBODY is harmed. Who needs to go into that temple? Is there something in there that you MUST HAVE to live and love God? Not really. Surely the Darshan of Jaganath, if you must have it, is available in photograph and in the Ratha Yatra festival, which now even there are first class digital movies of (my friend made some, sitting right next to the King last year). Surely, nobody is barred from serving Sri Krishna in their lives and hearts. But those who are humble, will recognize as I do, that there is a place and a calling for the mood in Puri. I bow to it, and I am restricted, being born white. I have abandoned my meat eating family, but I have eaten meat. I have performed many sins. I welcome that there may be one place that this body is not allowed. I cannot fault them. If Sri Caitanya allowed it and didn't fight it, then why should I? There are so many things I could say on this, and that my Guru, who taught Westerners, said to us. Be humble. Trnad api sunicena, taror api sahisnuna, amanina manadena kirtania sada hari. Sri Caitanya said: Be more humble than a blade of grass, more tolerant than a tree, in such a state of mind, you will be able to recite the name of the Lord constantly. I don't welcome axe grinding here, at least not against Hindu Vaisnavism of the Orthodox style of Puri, and Gaudiya Math, ISKCON, etc., which I usually agree with. If you want a different list, there is the other one, which is fully open to the Euro-Centric, Self-Centric, Kali Yuga mindset. The door swings both ways here. Then again, I'm not sure where you're going with your writings. Often I misunderstand people's intent. So please excuse me if I've missed your mood and written all unnecessarily all these things. I am a low soul, charged with a fiery mouth on behalf of the Gaudiya Math's teachings. My Guru was called "Bhakti Rakshaka" or "protector of Bhakti" and I think I caught his bug. I make mistakes. Please honestly, really, forgive me if I'm in error here. Still in these writings others can learn something, so some good will come of this letter. I ask all my 'White/Black/Muslim/Christian/Barred from Puri' brothers and sisters to hear my words: DO NOT fault find Jaganath Puri, or it's residents, or it's defenders, or it's history, in your mind or words. Doing so will not be good for you at all. This is an actually Sacred Place. Please be careful. I tell you there is good reason, but to understand it you must have humility and proper training in the ways of Krishna Bhakti. PLEASE watch your mouth, keyboard and pen regarding fault finding Vaisnavas, including the ways of those in the Jaganath Puri Dham, so obviously dear to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krishna Jaganath. Hare Krishna, Jaya Jaganath, Baladev, and Subhabdra, das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2000 Report Share Posted July 10, 2000 Das, Whichever way one cuts it, it is hypocritical that a "sacred" place allows and even welcomes meat eating individuals in (just because they were born hindu and have the right skin color and appearance) but shuns those who have given up their tamasic/rajasic birth culture ways (such as eating meat). How is this temple-rule based on ones birth situation different in principle from the South African trains of some 100 years ago which did not allow dark-skinned people entry into the sanctum sanctorum of the 1st class bogey? But Lord Sri Krishna knows best, of course! MK >Das <> >gjlist >gjlist >[gjlist] Puri Dham Defended >Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:10:22 -0700 > > > >My Dear Manas, > >Read your recent posts and felt to write this. Hopefully it's an >appropriate response. > >I am pretty 'fundamental' myself, and I started this list as an >alternative to the modern western mindset fully allowed on the "other" >Jyotish list, so that the voice of Veda would have a voice on the Web, >regarding Jyotish. > >There's room for everyone, including those of us who like the old >orthodox way of being and seeing Vaisnavism. > >I defend Puri Dham's right to maintain it's ancient system of allowing >only certain Hindu castes to enter the temple, and barring of White >people, etc., from entrance. > >In fact, Sri Caitanya, our Lord, chose to live there for the last part >of his life. His many friends who were Muslims, including Hari Das >Thakur, a great Saint and who was dear to Sri Caitanya and his >followers, was not allowed into the temple, and neither am I. > >Yes, my Guru taught me how to recognize the goodness in this rule of >Puri Dham, and so I do recognize it as good. > >Hear my understanding of it if you like: > >There is nothing wrong with there being places on Earth which have very >high and restrictive standards. There is 'sin' according to the strict >ancient Vedic Krishna-Bhakti standards, all over the non-Vedic cultures >including all White peoples, the Muslims, etc. > >Let there be ONE place or a FEW temples in India that have a blockade >against all souls who took birth in non-Hindu cultures and families. Why >not? > >If you love the Vedas, if you love Jaganath and Krishna, then you will >understand. There needs to be one such place. Such temples have a right >to exist. Some souls take birth in their spiritual progress at a point >where they desire to live in such places and follow such tenets, rules, >etc., while others need to feel that they are outside that, and yet >their are others who feel they have a need to fight this mood. All have >a right to exist speaking body-as-self-centrically, and speaking >devotionally, all exist in different levels of spiritual growth, and >those who live there, are ready for a high level of devotion. Either >way, they have a right to exist. > >Even if they, the people who run Puri Dham Temple, are not up to their >own standards, still, let the standards continue. Let there be the >attempt to uphold the standards in one place, as like a bell ringing to >keep alive the original mood and ways of the strict ancient culture. > >If the "barred" are humble as they are called to be by Veda, then NOBODY >is harmed. Who needs to go into that temple? Is there something in >there that you MUST HAVE to live and love God? Not really. Surely the >Darshan of Jaganath, if you must have it, is available in photograph and >in the Ratha Yatra festival, which now even there are first class >digital movies of (my friend made some, sitting right next to the King >last year). > >Surely, nobody is barred from serving Sri Krishna in their lives and >hearts. But those who are humble, will recognize as I do, that there is >a place and a calling for the mood in Puri. I bow to it, and I am >restricted, being born white. I have abandoned my meat eating family, >but I have eaten meat. I have performed many sins. I welcome that there >may be one place that this body is not allowed. I cannot fault them. If >Sri Caitanya allowed it and didn't fight it, then why should I? There >are so many things I could say on this, and that my Guru, who taught >Westerners, said to us. Be humble. > >Trnad api sunicena, taror api sahisnuna, amanina manadena kirtania sada >hari. > >Sri Caitanya said: Be more humble than a blade of grass, more tolerant >than a tree, in such a state of mind, you will be able to recite the >name of the Lord constantly. > >I don't welcome axe grinding here, at least not against Hindu Vaisnavism >of the Orthodox style of Puri, and Gaudiya Math, ISKCON, etc., which I >usually agree with. If you want a different list, there is the other >one, which is fully open to the Euro-Centric, Self-Centric, Kali Yuga >mindset. The door swings both ways here. > >Then again, I'm not sure where you're going with your writings. Often I >misunderstand people's intent. So please excuse me if I've missed your >mood and written all unnecessarily all these things. I am a low soul, >charged with a fiery mouth on behalf of the Gaudiya Math's teachings. My >Guru was called "Bhakti Rakshaka" or "protector of Bhakti" and I think I >caught his bug. I make mistakes. Please honestly, really, forgive me if >I'm in error here. Still in these writings others can learn something, >so some good will come of this letter. > >I ask all my 'White/Black/Muslim/Christian/Barred from Puri' brothers >and sisters to hear my words: DO NOT fault find Jaganath Puri, or it's >residents, or it's defenders, or it's history, in your mind or words. >Doing so will not be good for you at all. This is an actually Sacred >Place. Please be careful. I tell you there is good reason, but to >understand it you must have humility and proper training in the ways of >Krishna Bhakti. PLEASE watch your mouth, keyboard and pen regarding >fault finding Vaisnavas, including the ways of those in the Jaganath >Puri Dham, so obviously dear to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krishna Jaganath. > >Hare Krishna, > >Jaya Jaganath, Baladev, and Subhabdra, > > > > > >das > ______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2000 Report Share Posted July 11, 2000 Namatse, Das. I read this, and the other thread, and, no-offense taken. Thanks, Mu --- Das <> wrote: > > > My Dear Manas, > > Read your recent posts and felt to write this. > Hopefully it's an > appropriate response. > > I am pretty 'fundamental' myself, and I started this > list as an > alternative to the modern western mindset fully > allowed on the "other" > Jyotish list, so that the voice of Veda would have a > voice on the Web, > regarding Jyotish. > > There's room for everyone, including those of us who > like the old > orthodox way of being and seeing Vaisnavism. > > I defend Puri Dham's right to maintain it's ancient > system of allowing > only certain Hindu castes to enter the temple, and > barring of White > people, etc., from entrance. > > In fact, Sri Caitanya, our Lord, chose to live there > for the last part > of his life. His many friends who were Muslims, > including Hari Das > Thakur, a great Saint and who was dear to Sri > Caitanya and his > followers, was not allowed into the temple, and > neither am I. > > Yes, my Guru taught me how to recognize the goodness > in this rule of > Puri Dham, and so I do recognize it as good. > > Hear my understanding of it if you like: > > There is nothing wrong with there being places on > Earth which have very > high and restrictive standards. There is 'sin' > according to the strict > ancient Vedic Krishna-Bhakti standards, all over the > non-Vedic cultures > including all White peoples, the Muslims, etc. > > Let there be ONE place or a FEW temples in India > that have a blockade > against all souls who took birth in non-Hindu > cultures and families. Why > not? > > If you love the Vedas, if you love Jaganath and > Krishna, then you will > understand. There needs to be one such place. Such > temples have a right > to exist. Some souls take birth in their spiritual > progress at a point > where they desire to live in such places and follow > such tenets, rules, > etc., while others need to feel that they are > outside that, and yet > their are others who feel they have a need to fight > this mood. All have > a right to exist speaking body-as-self-centrically, > and speaking > devotionally, all exist in different levels of > spiritual growth, and > those who live there, are ready for a high level of > devotion. Either > way, they have a right to exist. > > Even if they, the people who run Puri Dham Temple, > are not up to their > own standards, still, let the standards continue. > Let there be the > attempt to uphold the standards in one place, as > like a bell ringing to > keep alive the original mood and ways of the strict > ancient culture. > > If the "barred" are humble as they are called to be > by Veda, then NOBODY > is harmed. Who needs to go into that temple? Is > there something in > there that you MUST HAVE to live and love God? Not > really. Surely the > Darshan of Jaganath, if you must have it, is > available in photograph and > in the Ratha Yatra festival, which now even there > are first class > digital movies of (my friend made some, sitting > right next to the King > last year). > > Surely, nobody is barred from serving Sri Krishna in > their lives and > hearts. But those who are humble, will recognize as > I do, that there is > a place and a calling for the mood in Puri. I bow to > it, and I am > restricted, being born white. I have abandoned my > meat eating family, > but I have eaten meat. I have performed many sins. I > welcome that there > may be one place that this body is not allowed. I > cannot fault them. If > Sri Caitanya allowed it and didn't fight it, then > why should I? There > are so many things I could say on this, and that my > Guru, who taught > Westerners, said to us. Be humble. > > Trnad api sunicena, taror api sahisnuna, amanina > manadena kirtania sada hari. > > Sri Caitanya said: Be more humble than a blade of > grass, more tolerant > than a tree, in such a state of mind, you will be > able to recite the > name of the Lord constantly. > > I don't welcome axe grinding here, at least not > against Hindu Vaisnavism > of the Orthodox style of Puri, and Gaudiya Math, > ISKCON, etc., which I > usually agree with. If you want a different list, > there is the other > one, which is fully open to the Euro-Centric, > Self-Centric, Kali Yuga > mindset. The door swings both ways here. > > Then again, I'm not sure where you're going with > your writings. Often I > misunderstand people's intent. So please excuse me > if I've missed your > mood and written all unnecessarily all these things. > I am a low soul, > charged with a fiery mouth on behalf of the Gaudiya > Math's teachings. My > Guru was called "Bhakti Rakshaka" or "protector of > Bhakti" and I think I > caught his bug. I make mistakes. Please honestly, > really, forgive me if > I'm in error here. Still in these writings others > can learn something, > so some good will come of this letter. > > I ask all my 'White/Black/Muslim/Christian/Barred > from Puri' brothers > and sisters to hear my words: DO NOT fault find > Jaganath Puri, or it's > residents, or it's defenders, or it's history, in > your mind or words. > Doing so will not be good for you at all. This is an > actually Sacred > Place. Please be careful. I tell you there is good > reason, but to > understand it you must have humility and proper > training in the ways of > Krishna Bhakti. PLEASE watch your mouth, keyboard > and pen regarding > fault finding Vaisnavas, including the ways of those > in the Jaganath > Puri Dham, so obviously dear to the Supreme Lord, > Sri Krishna Jaganath. > > Hare Krishna, > > Jaya Jaganath, Baladev, and Subhabdra, > > > > > > das > > Get Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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