Guest guest Posted June 22, 2000 Report Share Posted June 22, 2000 In Vedic literatures, the Puranas, Mahabharat, etc., Heaven is thought of as the Deva Lokas, which are material ultimately, in that they are also disolved at the great end between the great cycles of Demigod time. The Devas are also considered mortal therefore, and their abodes, "heaven" are also "mortal". But they last a very long time compared to us, and their lives are way more rich, opulant, grand, full of wisdom, light, truth, Yoga, and so on, to degrees which are way beyond our capabilities in human form. But, they often say they envy us because on Earth, which is "inbetween" heaven and "hell", there is a perfect opportunity for Spiritual Advancement because there is equal measure of pleasure and pain, so the truth of the "pain" of material life is known and evident, ie, war, death, famine, disease, etc., but there is also enough pleasure to make the human aware of "the good life" that is possible after the attainment of Yoga by all members of society. So, a "good" human strives towards Yoga, which is a source of all good, and I mean all Yoga, not one system, but becoming a wholistic good spiritual human, and those who do that go to "Heaven" at points. The very charitable, the very pious, the very giving, all go to "heaven", Deva Loka or Demigod style, the really awesome, but ultimately mortal, Heaven. So it's NOT heaven in the Christian sense. To go to the PERMANENT or ETERNAL heaven, in a Vedic sense, is normally seen to be achieved by those who are devoted to the service or worship of God, as either Vishnu, Shiva, or Krishna, or their spouses. These types of devotees do not motivate by mundane desirs such as charity, piety, mundane goodness, rather, they motivate by serving the center, regardless of present life conditions or circumstances. They do not love or hate anyone, because they see the futility of identifying with matter under any circumstances. So there is a difference. Vaikuntha, Krishnaloka, Goloka; there are different names for the eternal spiritual world, or Godhead, and that is to be distinguished from the heaven of the Devas who are above us here, who are the planets and other Devas, who are headed by Indra, Brhaspati, Brahma, Vayu, Varuna, the Prajapatis, etc., and the eternal Gods who are Vishnu, SadaShiva, Krishna, etc. The Vishnu avatars or Vishnu Tattva deities. These are "God". These words come from a Vaisnava viewpoint. The Shaivaites and others will have a different take, and of course the followers of Shankara, the Budhists, and other more impersonally focused Sampradayas may think that some form of "one" is the Supreme. So that is another thing. But if one literally reads the Bhagavat Purana, Vyas's self proclaimed quintessence, and the Mahabharat, and other Puranas, then one gets the idea I've put forth, where such things are clearly spoken out in plain Sanskrit. You'll notice also in BPHS that the Sage Author says the names of the deities over the planets, and they are all Vishnu Tattva Avatars, ie, the Dash Avatars or 10 principle Avatars such as Narasingha, Ram, Krishna, Budha, etc. (Budha was known about before he came, as he is clearly discussed in Ancient scriptures exactly, as one of the "Scheduled" Vishnu incarnations.) So Parashara speaks like a Vaisnava, and again we get the same idea as is found in the books of His Son Vyas. Parashara mentions Narada Muni, again a character by the same definitions exactly in Bhagavatam etc. These higher Puranas "put down" heaven very often, saying that it causes lethargy for the soul, who enjoys Venusian delights like anything, and thus wastes time in the material world. They clearly say that one must come down again and perform a more clear life of devotion. Also however many person went to the eternal life from Heaven, that too is told. So there's no one way. But heaven is not necessarily to be though of as the ultimate, from a literal reading of the Latter Puranas. It is a "gift" given to the "good" who "earned it". Many lines of Hindu thought, or Sampradayas, aim for this kind of heaven, by stricly performing rights and duties which "elevate" one to heaven at death. Many of these rituals are deep seated traditions in India. By the devotionally minded, the literal readers of the latter Puranas included, these rights and rituals are not necessary, as they are not a part of strict love of and devotion to, Vishnu Tattva deities. In fact, when Krishna lifted Govardhan Hill, he told his village people to "give up" worshiping Indra for nice rains as they always were, and instead just worship Him, Krishna, a theme repeated in the Bhagavad Gita, and Uddhava Gita in the 11th Canto of the Bhagavatam. Krishna never made any mistake about distinguishing between being His devotee and worship of the Devas who appeared under Brahma within this creation. Good placements in the chart which cause piety, purity, selflessness, charity, penence, etc., all of these will lead one upwards. These are Sattvic practices which elevate the soul. They are a privelage, a blessing, to have in one's life. Das Goravani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2000 Report Share Posted June 23, 2000 As-Salaam-Aliakum, Dasji, Veyr, very good post you wrote. It helps in these times of adversity. So, with all that you said, I am curious - what does my chart say for the afore-mentioned things, you know piety, devtotion, and so forth? If you have the time to respond of course, I understand if you do not. Mu'Min Dec 2, 1968 9:43AM EST Philly, PA Namaste, Mu --- Das <> wrote: > > In Vedic literatures, the Puranas, Mahabharat, etc., > Heaven is thought > of as the Deva Lokas, which are material ultimately, > in that they are > also disolved at the great end between the great > cycles of Demigod time. > The Devas are also considered mortal therefore, and > their abodes, > "heaven" are also "mortal". > > But they last a very long time compared to us, and > their lives are way > more rich, opulant, grand, full of wisdom, light, > truth, Yoga, and so > on, to degrees which are way beyond our capabilities > in human form. > > But, they often say they envy us because on Earth, > which is "inbetween" > heaven and "hell", there is a perfect opportunity > for Spiritual > Advancement because there is equal measure of > pleasure and pain, so the > truth of the "pain" of material life is known and > evident, ie, war, > death, famine, disease, etc., but there is also > enough pleasure to make > the human aware of "the good life" that is possible > after the attainment > of Yoga by all members of society. > > So, a "good" human strives towards Yoga, which is a > source of all good, > and I mean all Yoga, not one system, but becoming a > wholistic good > spiritual human, and those who do that go to > "Heaven" at points. The > very charitable, the very pious, the very giving, > all go to "heaven", > Deva Loka or Demigod style, the really awesome, but > ultimately mortal, Heaven. > > So it's NOT heaven in the Christian sense. > > To go to the PERMANENT or ETERNAL heaven, in a Vedic > sense, is normally > seen to be achieved by those who are devoted to the > service or worship > of God, as either Vishnu, Shiva, or Krishna, or > their spouses. These > types of devotees do not motivate by mundane desirs > such as charity, > piety, mundane goodness, rather, they motivate by > serving the center, > regardless of present life conditions or > circumstances. They do not love > or hate anyone, because they see the futility of > identifying with matter > under any circumstances. > > So there is a difference. Vaikuntha, Krishnaloka, > Goloka; there are > different names for the eternal spiritual world, or > Godhead, and that is > to be distinguished from the heaven of the Devas who > are above us here, > who are the planets and other Devas, who are headed > by Indra, Brhaspati, > Brahma, Vayu, Varuna, the Prajapatis, etc., and the > eternal Gods who are > Vishnu, SadaShiva, Krishna, etc. The Vishnu avatars > or Vishnu Tattva > deities. These are "God". > > These words come from a Vaisnava viewpoint. The > Shaivaites and others > will have a different take, and of course the > followers of Shankara, the > Budhists, and other more impersonally focused > Sampradayas may think that > some form of "one" is the Supreme. So that is > another thing. > > But if one literally reads the Bhagavat Purana, > Vyas's self proclaimed > quintessence, and the Mahabharat, and other Puranas, > then one gets the > idea I've put forth, where such things are clearly > spoken out in plain > Sanskrit. You'll notice also in BPHS that the Sage > Author says the names > of the deities over the planets, and they are all > Vishnu Tattva Avatars, > ie, the Dash Avatars or 10 principle Avatars such as > Narasingha, Ram, > Krishna, Budha, etc. (Budha was known about before > he came, as he is > clearly discussed in Ancient scriptures exactly, as > one of the > "Scheduled" Vishnu incarnations.) > > So Parashara speaks like a Vaisnava, and again we > get the same idea as > is found in the books of His Son Vyas. Parashara > mentions Narada Muni, > again a character by the same definitions exactly in > Bhagavatam etc. > > These higher Puranas "put down" heaven very often, > saying that it causes > lethargy for the soul, who enjoys Venusian delights > like anything, and > thus wastes time in the material world. They clearly > say that one must > come down again and perform a more clear life of > devotion. Also however > many person went to the eternal life from Heaven, > that too is told. So > there's no one way. > > But heaven is not necessarily to be though of as the > ultimate, from a > literal reading of the Latter Puranas. It is a > "gift" given to the > "good" who "earned it". Many lines of Hindu thought, > or Sampradayas, aim > for this kind of heaven, by stricly performing > rights and duties which > "elevate" one to heaven at death. Many of these > rituals are deep seated > traditions in India. By the devotionally minded, the > literal readers of > the latter Puranas included, these rights and > rituals are not necessary, > as they are not a part of strict love of and > devotion to, Vishnu Tattva > deities. > > In fact, when Krishna lifted Govardhan Hill, he told > his village people > to "give up" worshiping Indra for nice rains as they > always were, and > instead just worship Him, Krishna, a theme repeated > in the Bhagavad > Gita, and Uddhava Gita in the 11th Canto of the > Bhagavatam. Krishna > never made any mistake about distinguishing between > being His devotee > and worship of the Devas who appeared under Brahma > within this creation. > > Good placements in the chart which cause piety, > purity, selflessness, > charity, penence, etc., all of these will lead one > upwards. These are > Sattvic practices which elevate the soul. They are a > privelage, a > blessing, to have in one's life. > > Das Goravani > > > Get Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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