Guest guest Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Namaskar Shaivites, First, I would like to say that I am delighted and very glad to be able to be on this forum exchanging information and learning more about this very ancient religion which is Shaivism. Then, I would like to posit a question that perhaps can be answered by some members. Some years ago, I met a group of people from Europe. They were visiting my city. We met at the beach (there are many wondrous beaches in Rio de Janeiro where I live). I was interested in the fact that they consumed intoxicants such as cannabis, alcohol and others, and asked them about it. One of them said he was a Shaivite, and that just as Lord Shiva did consumption of intoxicants and was never killed or harmed by them, he also did this as a form of identifying himself with Lord Shiva and as a devotional practice. I was bewildered and some days later there was a party to be held on another beach. They were going to this party and I was going too. When I was at the party and met them the one that had become my closest friend, whom I chatted with often, (Paul from England), called me and said: "now we are going to do Shiva worship, if you want you can come." , and I was delighted and said okay, and on the way to the place I was told to stay quiet until the worship was finished. The worshipping was made smoking strong hashish called "charas" in a device called "bong". There was a circle of people and everyone was silent. The bong went all around from one person to the next until about 10 minutes later the man who seemed to be heading the worship bowed and everyone bowed too. Then we began to talk, some people left for a walk, and it was a very good atmosphere. I talked about music and about my seeing of my previous births with Paul and his girlfriend and Juka (from Finland) who was also there. My question is: what is the role of intoxicants/inebriants in Shiva worship, and were these people I met really Shaivites or not? I was really impressed by their kind, honest and disciplined behaviour, in spite of consuming several intoxicants they never seemed "out of their minds" or crazy or did stupid things. Could this be due to protection from Shiva or something similar? Best regards for everyone, Fred " on the web. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Om Namah Shivaya Dear Fred, There are many more learned and knowledgeable members on this list but I am answering your query based on whatever little I know and have experienced. Every morning, after taking bath and before eating breakfast, you chant "Om Namah Shivaya" with faith and reverence and correct pronounciation and you experience the results yourself. Your questions will disappear by themselves and seem irrelevant to you. Nama Shivaya is a vedic mantra and if you understand and chant a vedic mantra correctly and consistently, it gives you mental peace and equanimity. I am not aware of any Vedic injunction to consume liquor etc as part of Shiva worship. As far as I know, the vedas say that "Suram na pibet (do not consume liquor)". I request the learned members to correct me if I stated something wrong. regards, Om Namah Shivaya " on the web. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Hello Mahadevadvaita, Thank you for your reply. I will do this practice, as I am in need of more confidence and faith. Also humility. For some time I have wondered through the spiritual path in search of power but it is just not so. How better is my life now... I was in the wrong way for me. May Lord Shiva bless us all. Fred , "mahadevadvaita" <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > > Om Namah Shivaya > Dear Fred, There are many more learned and knowledgeable members on > this list but I am answering your query based on whatever little I > know and have experienced. Every morning, after taking bath and before > eating breakfast, you chant "Om Namah Shivaya" with faith and > reverence and correct pronounciation and you experience the results > yourself. Your questions will disappear by themselves and seem > irrelevant to you. > Nama Shivaya is a vedic mantra and if you understand and chant a vedic > mantra correctly and consistently, it gives you mental peace and > equanimity. I am not aware of any Vedic injunction to consume liquor > etc as part of Shiva worship. As far as I know, the vedas say > that "Suram na pibet (do not consume liquor)". > > I request the learned members to correct me if I stated something > wrong. > > regards, > Om Namah Shivaya > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Om Namah Sivaya Tirumantiram by Rishi Tirumular ( a direct disciple of Lord Siva) Verse 326 : The Wicked Drink in Vama Tantra Lust and drink, fit for the wicked are they; In ritual unholy they drink and lose the senses But the wise drink the nectar streaming from His feet, Which destroys egoism and bigotry Verse 327: Drinking in Vama Tantra Worship Leads to Perdition They drink and perish, who to the Vama sect belong, The lustful ones in sensual delights are wholly lost; But the pure souls find the Light of sacrifices in their inner flame; They who His true name chant, approach Him fast. Verse 328: Truth Eludes Drunkards They see not the truth, know not the Pasu-Pasa, They dwell not in the bounteous Lord's Divine Grace; In the clear light of Wisdom, Sivayoga they seek not, They, who soak in liquors, Truth never can appraise. Verse 329: Followers of False Religion Neither Seek nor See Him The fools who swear by the faith that our senses numbs, Who yield to the heady joys of drink - they neither seek or see Mamaya's Home, for the Maya's fetters are they bound; But recovered from Maya's hold, they merge in the Lord and are free. Verse 330: Wine Stupefies Senses and Destroys Truth The fumes of wine stupor bring and destroy the Truth, And make us seek the false, delusive joys of lust; Such advance not to Wisdom true, of sweet reason compact. Will such attain the eternal Bliss truest? Sivaya Namah atmadarshanam <fsgss (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Namaskar Shaivites, First, I would like to say that I am delighted and very glad to be able to be on this forum exchanging information and learning more about this very ancient religion which is Shaivism. Then, I would like to posit a question that perhaps can be answered by some members. Some years ago, I met a group of people from Europe. They were visiting my city. We met at the beach (there are many wondrous beaches in Rio de Janeiro where I live). I was interested in the fact that they consumed intoxicants such as cannabis, alcohol and others, and asked them about it. One of them said he was a Shaivite, and that just as Lord Shiva did consumption of intoxicants and was never killed or harmed by them, he also did this as a form of identifying himself with Lord Shiva and as a devotional practice. I was bewildered and some days later there was a party to be held on another beach. They were going to this party and I was going too. When I was at the party and met them the one that had become my closest friend, whom I chatted with often, (Paul from England), called me and said: "now we are going to do Shiva worship, if you want you can come." , and I was delighted and said okay, and on the way to the place I was told to stay quiet until the worship was finished. The worshipping was made smoking strong hashish called "charas" in a device called "bong". There was a circle of people and everyone was silent. The bong went all around from one person to the next until about 10 minutes later the man who seemed to be heading the worship bowed and everyone bowed too. Then we began to talk, some people left for a walk, and it was a very good atmosphere. I talked about music and about my seeing of my previous births with Paul and his girlfriend and Juka (from Finland) who was also there. My question is: what is the role of intoxicants/inebriants in Shiva worship, and were these people I met really Shaivites or not? I was really impressed by their kind, honest and disciplined behaviour, in spite of consuming several intoxicants they never seemed "out of their minds" or crazy or did stupid things. Could this be due to protection from Shiva or something similar? Best regards for everyone, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 thirumoolar refers to those who practise vama tantra for self gratification, and not those who really practise it to reach the divinity. In fact thirumoolar himself talks of "pariyanga yogam" (i don't remember the chapter, but this can be easily found among the contents), which is the raising of kundalini while engaged in union, which is very much the main practice in vama tantra. regards, R Rajagopal Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Om Namah Sivaya Tirumantiram by Rishi Tirumular ( a direct disciple of Lord Siva) Verse 326 : The Wicked Drink in Vama Tantra Lust and drink, fit for the wicked are they; In ritual unholy they drink and lose the senses But the wise drink the nectar streaming from His feet, Which destroys egoism and bigotry Verse 327: Drinking in Vama Tantra Worship Leads to Perdition They drink and perish, who to the Vama sect belong, The lustful ones in sensual delights are wholly lost; But the pure souls find the Light of sacrifices in their inner flame; They who His true name chant, approach Him fast. Verse 328: Truth Eludes Drunkards They see not the truth, know not the Pasu-Pasa, They dwell not in the bounteous Lord's Divine Grace; In the clear light of Wisdom, Sivayoga they seek not, They, who soak in liquors, Truth never can appraise. Verse 329: Followers of False Religion Neither Seek nor See Him The fools who swear by the faith that our senses numbs, Who yield to the heady joys of drink - they neither seek or see Mamaya's Home, for the Maya's fetters are they bound; But recovered from Maya's hold, they merge in the Lord and are free. Verse 330: Wine Stupefies Senses and Destroys Truth The fumes of wine stupor bring and destroy the Truth, And make us seek the false, delusive joys of lust; Such advance not to Wisdom true, of sweet reason compact. Will such attain the eternal Bliss truest? Sivaya Namah atmadarshanam <fsgss (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Namaskar Shaivites, First, I would like to say that I am delighted and very glad to be able to be on this forum exchanging information and learning more about this very ancient religion which is Shaivism. Then, I would like to posit a question that perhaps can be answered by some members. Some years ago, I met a group of people from Europe. They were visiting my city. We met at the beach (there are many wondrous beaches in Rio de Janeiro where I live). I was interested in the fact that they consumed intoxicants such as cannabis, alcohol and others, and asked them about it. One of them said he was a Shaivite, and that just as Lord Shiva did consumption of intoxicants and was never killed or harmed by them, he also did this as a form of identifying himself with Lord Shiva and as a devotional practice. I was bewildered and some days later there was a party to be held on another beach. They were going to this party and I was going too. When I was at the party and met them the one that had become my closest friend, whom I chatted with often, (Paul from England), called me and said: "now we are going to do Shiva worship, if you want you can come." , and I was delighted and said okay, and on the way to the place I was told to stay quiet until the worship was finished. The worshipping was made smoking strong hashish called "charas" in a device called "bong". There was a circle of people and everyone was silent. The bong went all around from one person to the next until about 10 minutes later the man who seemed to be heading the worship bowed and everyone bowed too. Then we began to talk, some people left for a walk, and it was a very good atmosphere. I talked about music and about my seeing of my previous births with Paul and his girlfriend and Juka (from Finland) who was also there. My question is: what is the role of intoxicants/inebriants in Shiva worship, and were these people I met really Shaivites or not? I was really impressed by their kind, honest and disciplined behaviour, in spite of consuming several intoxicants they never seemed "out of their minds" or crazy or did stupid things. Could this be due to protection from Shiva or something similar? Best regards for everyone, Fred Switch an email account to Mail, you could win FIFA World Cup tickets. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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