Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear friend DharmaDev-ji - If I may add a brief note to this discussion.... my esteemed teacher's teacher was the renowned Paramahansa Muktananda of Ganeshpuri. He had thousands upon thousands of disciples and is known as a great Shaktipat Guru. In his ashram was an extensive library of all the great classical spiritual texts. This was kept locked and Muktananda himself held the key. When asked - he refused to allow anyone to enter the library until their actual experience demonstrated their understanding. In his great wisdom - he knew that experience was the real key to the library - otherwise, confusion and conceptual enlightenment would hinder the disciple's unfoldment.... Namaste, Alan >AumShiningLotus > > >Re: RBSC : diety!? >Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:29:10 EDT > >Dear Velasivasankaran and Group Members > >Let it be known that this is not hate male............Bhaktradj Ji is >showing >you what Spriitual Discourse and Cerebralizeing Consciousness and Existence >is all about........is a good lesson for all to see the worthlessness of >this >process due to the different sects that present what they see as the >truth.............in this process thoughts are presented to people to think >about......questions are asked and more thoughts are presented with >answers.............problem is the information and thoughts and ideas >presented specific to what is >True is usually tainted by some type of sectarianism...if I spelled that >correctly > >There are aboutr 14 different states in India and everybody has an opinion >they discuss and cerebralize in different ways.........If you want a real >dose >of this type of cerebralizeing there is a groupsite named after Adi >Shankara >and all they do is talk about the teachings of Adi Shankara and the >Almighty........all they do is talk.........most dont meditate or >understand the idea of >Self Empowerment.......about sitting down in silence > >I asked them once if they ever would stop talking about Life in general and >sit silently in meditation and their answer was that their group site was >set >up for discussion > >Bhaktradj Ji belongs to a specifc group of people who have a specific >perspective on Consciousness and Life in General........he also was able to >name who >God was....this is a real stretch of the imagination however there are many >others with many other thoughts to present those who would ask > >The solution to this Kali Yuga problem is to......not ask other humans >regarding the nature of Almighty God........shut the door on this >rediculous method >of sitting around for discussion and cerebralizeing on subjects that the >Saints only are really guessing at........the solution for answers is >different for >each individual and is as Maharishis Patanjali taught.................to >sit >silently in meditation and let the answers come to you..........as your >individual life and future is decided by you alone and there will be more >than >enough time in this lifetime to resolve the issues presented to you and to >accomplish what you need to accomplish without sitting around and listening >to other >humans tell you what the Truth IS............ includeing myself > >Many of the Distractions and Misdirections in the Kali Yuga have to do with >the 5 senses and are mostly centered on Visual and Vocal at the basic level >of >the process of trying to understand................these distractions can >be >dealt with by sitting in silence with eyes closed and the learning how to >let >your own intuition establish a personal relationship with whatever Godhead >you >are meant to be with > >Once anyone has learned to do this with eyes closed they will be able to >apply this discrimination with eyes open and while conducting day to day >duties >and chanting the Mantras out loud by oneself or in assembly with others > >As Thomas Ashley Farrand has written in Healing Mantras the Mantras are >sounds that are meaning based with little translation to todays >language......we >know the direction the Mantras will take us and this is all we need > >hope this helps to move people forward and out of the discussion and >discourse and question and answer and cerebralizeing process that actually >hold people >back from Self Empowerment and Self Actualizaton > >Controversial Point here is that no person can discuss anything >intelligently >unless they have had the personal experience of what they are >discussing......meaning Experiental Knowledge is the Key to Accomplishment >and Self >Empowerment.... if a person quotes a book that is all they are >doing.....they are >quoteing a book.........To make matters more difficult if a person has >actually had >the experience of Almight God.......it is their experience alone......... >the >people they are speaking to in discourse who have not had the same >experience >have difficulty identifying with the language the experienced person uses >to >describe what Life is all about because as you have seen with the writings >of >Bhaktradj Ji the writings are all over the map.......the Misdirection here >is >trying to make sense of cerebralizeing writings like these > >Stick with the Basics in Life.........The Sun rises in the East and Sets in >the West each day of our physical lives........You get to decide what you >wish >to do with your Life each day.......you can be Happy or you can have >problems.....is your choice...The Basic Truth is that each sentient >organism on the >planet seeks a comfort zone each moment of their life where there is no >pain or >suffering in an environment where they can better themselves.........and >then >after many years we physically die.........THATS ALL THERE IS > >You get to decide what individual path to take and if discussion and >cerebralizeing is the path chosen then a person needs to look into the >future and >decide where this will lead them in 10 years or 20 years............is it >necessary as a first step or can a person by pass this step rapidly by >learning to sit >in silence > >From my personal experience I hope this helps add a different perspective >on >accelerated progress in Life that produces positive results for Sadhakas >and >Householders alike according to the Teachings of Patanjali > >Wishing you and Family the Best of Dharma Artha Kama and Moksa > >S R DharmaDeva Arya > > > > > >In a message dated 6/10/2005 3:54:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, >velasivasankaran writes: > > > > > > > Is this a hate mail? > > > > > > > > --- Brammetje Kharag <bhaktas2 wrote: > > > > >Dear Vaghela, > > > > > >As promised I will continue to try to explain the > > >answers to your questions. > > > > > >In my previous mail I left off with the remark about > > >the reciprocating love relationship between us and > > >The Supreme Lord. I will elaborate a little more on > > >this because this is the most crucial part of all > > >Spiritual knowledge and without it we will never > > >able to be delivered from this material world. > > > > > >Before we can even phantom who we really are we at > > >least have to know what we are. Sadhu, Guru, Shastra > > >(including the chaitya-guru, guru within the heart, > > >the Paramatama or as some call it the upa-guru) > > >state that we are spiritual souls. The spiritual > > >soul has the dimension of 1/10.000 part of the tip > > >of a hair according to shastra and is qualitatively > > >one, but quantitatively different from The Supreme > > >Lord. The soul is originally also made of sat, cid, > > >ananda, eternal spiritual bliss and transcendental > > >knowledge like the Lord Himself but infinitely small > > >where the Lord is infinite, period. All qualities > > >that are in The Lord are also in the soul but in > > >minute quantity. As The Lord is Supremely > > >independent we have a minute Independence which > > >gives us some freedom of choice. To somewhat > > >understand, only this qualitative equality between > > >us and The Lord we take the example of a drop of the > > >ocean which has the same chemical substance as the > > >whole ocean but will never be able to create a > > > title wave. > > > > > >This independent quality is not only there because > > >of the above mentioned qualitative equality but it > > >is also crucial to the purpose of our existence. As > > >we have already stated eventually the attainment of > > >pure undivided transcendental love towards The > > >Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme goal > > >of live. In order for love to be pure it must be > > >spontaneous and freely given. To be completely pure > > >it can not be demanded not even by The Supreme Lord. > > >Our minute Independence is only meant for this > > >reason. It is also in this that we find the > > >everlasting unlimited happiness we are all (knowing > > >or unknowingly) anxiously searching for. Even in > > >this world the main desire of all living entities is > > >to be treuly loved. Eventhough we are conditioned > > >the eternal quality of the soul can not be denied. > > >The soul is pleasure seeking by nature. Even > > >stronger it is the prorogative of the soul to enjoy > > >full happines. We only need to realise that this can > > >only happen in our fully blossomed loving > > > relationship with The Supreme Lord. > > > > > >In the material world the living entity can have the > > >illusion that he can enjoy independent from the > > >Lord. His natural love for God is transformed into > > >Lust and attachment based on bodily kinsmen ship. > > >The conditioned soul in the material world can be in > > >the illusion that he can enjoy seperate from The > > >Lord. This is because of the material ilusionary > > >energy called mahamaya. This material world is > > >actually a prison house for those who have the > > >desire to enjoy separate from The Lord and the main > > >prison ward is Durga devi one of the expansions of > > >Sriamti Parvati the consort of Lord Shiva. Durga > > >actually means prison. I will not elaborate further > > >on this for the earlier mentioned reason. > > > > > >When the spiritual soul comes to this material world > > >it is fitted with two prison robes the subtle body > > >and the gross body. The subtle body consists of, the > > >false ego, material intelligence and mind (ghost > > >body), The gross body consists of earth, water, > > >fire, sky and ether; the five gross elements. At the > > >time of death the soul and the subtle body move to > > >another gross body. All our karmic info is > > >registered in the subtle body and carried with us to > > >the next gross body. After countless rebirths the > > >souls may become weary of this useless exercise > > >(having gone through enoumerous beatings from Maya) > > >and sincerely look for something else. At that > > >moment the Super soul or Paramatma who resides in > > >the heart next to the soul actively will start > > >guiding him in the right direction to shatter the > > >Chakra Samsara en begin his journey back to the > > >spiritual world. The inner Guru than will manifest > > >also through an external bonafied guru and in that > > >way the soul will be helped both from within and > > > without. > > > > > >There are those who say that we do not need an > > >external Guru. They do not realize however that by > > >giving this advice they themselves act as external > > >gurus. Our question to them is if one does not need > > >an external Guru to know the science about God which > > >is complex and not easy to be understood why do you > > >accept a guru even for learning simple things like > > >how to drive a car? Why can you not realise how to > > >drive a car by relying on your feeling. If you can > > >rely on your feeling for difficult knowledge it must > > >be surely possible for simple knowledge. It is only > > >the creeping propensity to cheat in the persuit of > > >worldly name, fame and adoration that make these > > >persons act this way. They act as a guru by giving > > >so called devine advice but renaging on the > > >resposibility of giving this advice. We should not > > >reverse this though and think because God is > > >everything, eveything is God. > > > > > >For the conditioned Soul 4 goals are mentioned in > > >general shastra, dharma material religiosity), artha > > >(economic development), kama (material sense > > >enjoyment) and moksha ( liberation from the material > > >mode). When we study further though we discover the > > >most important fifth called Prema (transcendental > > >love). Manny so called spiritual leaders accept > > >moksha as the supreme goal but when we study it in > > >detail it cannot be. Moksha actually means that we > > >have no more attraction for this material world but > > >because at that stage in itself we have no idea of > > >the spiritual world it is like a neutral position in > > >between the material and spiritual real. Actually > > >moksha is the beginning stage of real spiritual life > > >which can only truly start when we have completely > > >given up all attraction for this material world in > > >the form of name, fame, adoration, wealth, opposite > > >sex, etc.. When we then under proper guidance of a > > >bonafide ambassador of the spiritual realm practise > > >the development of > > > transcendental love for the Supreme we will develop > > >slowly a fully developed spiritual body which is > > >present in seed form in all emanated souls but not > > >manifested. Eventually when fully rehabilitated we > > >will be allowed back in the perfect society the > > >Spiritual world or Vaikuntha. > > > > > >There is one more consideration that common man > > >cannot understand. If The Supreme is Supreme than > > >why does He have a mother, father, uncles, aunts, > > >wives, friends lovers, nephews, brothers etc., etc.? > > >For those who's eyes have been opened even a little > > >bit by the torchlight of knowledge carried by the > > >bonafied gurus this is relatively easy understood. > > >We already said that Love is the main thing. We also > > >explained that this material world is a perverted > > >reflexion of the Spiritual world. Even in this world > > >we see a variety of loving relationships. We can > > >categorise them in five types; (1) shanta (neutral), > > >(2) dasya (servant-master), (3) sakhya (friendship), > > >(4) vatsalya (parental) and (5) madhurya (amorous). > > >Every living entity has these types of relationships > > >in this material world. These types exsist here > > >however because they exsist in the sipritual world. > > >If love is the ultimate than it must be there in the > > >spiritual world in all it veriaties, tastes, > > >coullors, etc.. We do have to > > > accept although it is imposible to understand in > > >the conditioned state that the loving relationships > > >in the spiritual world can never ever be realy > > >compared to the temporary relationships we encounter > > >in this material world. We ca only use the examples > > >from this world to have some idea. > > > > > >Sorry but I have to go now and will continue > > >tomorrow. > > > > > >With Warm regards, > > > > > >Bhaktradj Kharagjitsing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to: > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Just a few more words into this great on-going debate.............. If we read through the sanatan hindu texts(I mention Hindu texts simply because that is what I have better knowledge of), one thing that comes through all of the excellent philosophical debates and practices is that the true nature and knowledge of the God is that "He" is beyond all that is possible to be explained through the reasoning. Even what is referred to as Brahm Gyan (knowledge of the Brahm or creator) is shown to be below the true nature and knowledge of the supreme being. Would it not emphasise to us mortals that if we can put into words and explanations that a human brain can understand, it can not encompass the whole truth about the creation and creator. I think this debate can only exist because we have differing ways, experiences and view-points of trying to encircle what has not been possible through centuries of discourse by the greatest of philosophers that ever lived on earth i.e. the rishis and munis that gave us the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishadas and many more texts all dedicated especially to the core questions of justifying and understanding our place in the time-space continuum. This is talking only of the Sanatan Hindu legacy and nothing about what happened in many many other great civilizations, cultures and religious movements that existed during the human race's progression. For anyone to claim that he/she/they can put into words the wholeness of the supreme being are simply arrogant in their philosophical beliefs. And frankly having written the line above it makes me think that maybe I am also one of those arrogants that is trying hard to justify his position.............. Therefore I better stop before making any more fool of myself and propose that let's just enjoy the beautifully diverse and colourful nature that the good Lord has created rather than trying to reason something that is beyond any reasoning. Kind regards Anand [] On Behalf Of AumShiningLotus 10 June 2005 17:00 Re: RBSC : diety!? reply to Velasivasankaranji Dear Bhaktradj Ji Again this is only your truth...........one of many truths....your truth is not for everyong Hindu...if you respect Dharma and Karmic needs of others then tattva sidhanta is not crucial or needed by some and this has to be taken into consideration........also need to remember that Hindu Maya and Buddhist Mara with all the intellectual vampires are out there and discourse and cerebralizeing make for fertile ground for confusion regarding what the truth is for different indiduals........Truth is Individual and different for each person DharmaDev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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