Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Dear Rohiniji, Thanks Sy; one other thing is the "mind". If your mind,which is controlled by your soul, says that you are doing something wrong then you are prone to think...or feel guilty if you proceed... in that case why proceed...? On the other hand you have either prepared or gone for a lavish dinner and happen to see someone else hogging away something which you like/d very much - your stomach is rumbling or the mouth is watering... why torture yourself.. go right ahead. (After sometime, it is still strange to me, you will start feeling odd, the very thing which attacted you would turn out to be distasteful). Here come the factor of right, wrong and self discipline. Through meditation which, you are performing (you are really lucky) daily, you must have instilled in you a lot of self control.... this is something I have learnt from martial arts - after/during attaining the Black Belt level one goes into the mental plane - the mind is focussed and locked to the outside world. So when I perform Japa exactly the same thing happens.....finally what I want to say to you my dear friend is that you should do what you should not regret later... no god or goddess says that you should eat this or that. Only now that man has become more environment friendly and thinks of the animals - they can't speak, etc... why kill them and eat them as if nothing else is available.... perhaps it is best to conclude that man has started believing in the supernatural being who is always watching us.... GOD! ...just concentrate on your japa... I feel one mala is somewhat less... try to attain sixteen mala... which is perhaps time consuming and difficult anyway... so target 4 malas of japa and be intense....by the way have you or anyone of the society seen bright multicolored lights flashing away while performing japa...it indicates reaching of certain stage...as you go on intensifying....you will see what we call the "Gandharvas" .....it will take time and effort to see them...but is really worth it. Imagine seeing their faces; they will not talk but will be cheerifully moving around...talking to the Gandharvas...well going far am I? Take care... Om Namah Shivaya! Jamini syzenith <syzenith wrote: Dear Rohini, Much agree with Shri Rajeswaraji and Jaminiji too. They both have explained things excellently. Jai Maa Sy , Jamini Padhi <jamini_padhi> wrote: > Dear Rohini Ji, > I fully agree with Rajeshwarji; some of the reiki masters can tell what one has eaten because they can feel you vibrations. > As far as Maa Parvati is concerned; she is so simple even though she is the consort of Lord Mahadev. I have had first hand experience so I can vouch for it. She will listen when everyone else turns a deaf ear. > Jamini > > rajeswara rao <sarvadu> wrote: > dear rohini ji, > > there is nothing wrong in eating meat or consuming alchol if you have a habit. but in order to follow a purified path one has to follow some rules out of which abstainence from meat n wine is one as they develop tamsic vibrations/feeling in our body. Nevertheless, when you start moving closure to the divine power of god/goddess you will automatically develop a dislike and move away from meat and wine. > > Vaishno Devi is mostly identified with Mahalakshmi although She is the combined shakti's of all three ie. Mahakali, Mahalakshmi and Mahasaraswati. > as already said the different forms of god/goddess were taken only for a noble purpose, and that form is not permanent.to sum up, the god/goddess is a collective form of the nava (9) rasas. if parvati took the form of durga it was only to end mahisha the demon. otherwise parvati is ever compassionate and pious. so i dont find any need to inmitate the characteristics of different transient forms of god/goddess. > > with regards > rajeswara > > Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > Dear Rajeshwarji, > > Thanks for the feedback. So does that mean it is ok to eat meat and drink > alcohol? However when you go to Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine, there is no sign > of meat or alcohol for miles around. Mata Vaishno Devi has revealed herself > as Maha Saraswati, MahaLakshmi and MahaKali as three Pindis in the Holy > Cave. The term Vaishno means vegetarian. > > Could you please explain? > > Om Namah Shivaye > > Rohini > > > >rajeswara rao <sarvadu> > > > > > >RBSC : mantra question/to Rohini ji > >Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:15:19 -0800 (PST) > > > >Dear Rohini ji > > > >Agree with what you said. Shiva and Parvati have many forms, each > >representing particular characteric. howvever, all these forms are taken > >by Shiva or Parvati for a noble cause. > >Durga's story appears primarily in the Skanda Purana, in Chandi. She also > >appears elsewhere in tantrik texts, including as Mahishamardini (killer of > >the demon Mahisha) The gods lost their empire to two great antigods > >(asuras), Shumbha and Nishumbha, and prayed to the Goddess for help. > >Needless to say, the ever compassionate Devi took on these proud antigods > >and vanquished them utterly. To this end, she assembled an entire army of > >Shaktis similar to her and when things became very tough, projected KALIKA > >out of her third eye. She is called Durga because she slayed the son of the > >arch-demon Durga, son of Ruru..As LALITA, she subdued the demonic > >Bhandasura at the request of the gods, who then built the SHRI YANTRA to > >celebrate her greatness. > >The names of the God or Goddess are really adjectives, and they are one, > >under these different descriptions. For example, the goddess in Chandi > >takes the forms of Kali, Sarasvati and Vaishnavi, representing the three > >gunas, to subdue the host of demons. > > > >Bhairava is the God Shiva in one of his most fearsome, terrifying > >aspects.Bhairawa created from Shiva when Shiva clipped off one of Brahma's > >(Indian creator-god ) five heads. Brahma's fifth head, was very nasty. > >It was completely insane and liked to devour everything Brahma created. It > >was threatening to eat the whole universe and cackling rather madly on this > >particular day, just blaspheming and threatening off everyone. So Shiva > >sliced it off with one of his thumbnails. In this aspect, he is said to > >destroy the false self. In this aspect God cannot be known intellectually. > >He is the eternal, witnessing Subject that can never be an object of > >thought. Although He is the source of those attributes which characterize > >created objects, He himself cannot be characterized. > > > >So it depends on which form of Shiva or Parvati you adore. I would also > >suggest that offering oneself (i.e. ego-complex or core identifications) as > >sacrifice to Bhairava could become the basis for a monasticism based around > >the deliberate transgression of personal taboos and boundaries. In general > >though, one should avoid too literal an emulation of Bhairawa/Agori or > >Kapalika practices and vows these days! > > > >with regards > > > >rajeswara > >Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > >I am confused...... > > > >There are so many contradictions between what a devotee is preached and > >what > >the religious books say. For example: > > > >Lord Shiva is said to be fond of Bhang (an intoxicant) while a Shiva Bhakta > >is discouraged from using alcohol. > > > >Lord Shiva is son with his consort Parvati yet most Shiva devotees are > >brahmacharis. > > > >Durga who is a form of Parvati who is Shiva's consort, has 108 names > >including Seedupriya (fond of drinks) and Maamsapriya (fond of flesh). > >devotees are discouraged from using these foods. > > > >Bhairav who is a form of Shiva is said to be fond of meat and alcohol. As a > >matter of fact, country liquor is used as an offering for Bhairav puja. > >Shiva devotees are preached against the use of these foods. > > > >Can anyone help to clarify this and put some light on this subject. > > > >Om Namah Shivaye > > > >Rohini > > > > > > To send an email to: - > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > To send an email to: / Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Jaminiji, Thank you for sharing your thoughts......I meditate everyday and have tried to simply my life after a very hectic corporate life which involved Big 5 consulting and extensive travel. One day I simply asked myself - Am I living to work or am I working to live? Similarly, Am I am eating to live or living to eat? Answering these simple questions brought a big change in my life and has given me great peace of mind and healthy living. Om Aeeng Hreem Shreem Kleem Hreem Namah Shivaya, Shivaya Namah Om Rohini >Jamini Padhi <jamini_padhi > > >RBSC : Re:RBSC:mantra question/to Rohini Vaishno Devi >Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:58:31 -0800 (PST) > >Dear Rohiniji, > >Thanks Sy; one other thing is the "mind". If your mind,which is controlled >by your soul, says that you are doing something wrong then you are prone to >think...or feel guilty if you proceed... in that case why proceed...? On >the other hand you have either prepared or gone for a lavish dinner and >happen to see someone else hogging away something which you like/d very >much - your stomach is rumbling or the mouth is watering... why torture >yourself.. go right ahead. (After sometime, it is still strange to me, you >will start feeling odd, the very thing which attacted you would turn out to >be distasteful). Here come the factor of right, wrong and self discipline. >Through meditation which, you are performing (you are really lucky) daily, >you must have instilled in you a lot of self control.... this is something >I have learnt from martial arts - after/during attaining the Black Belt >level one goes into the mental plane - the mind is focussed and locked to >the outside world. So when I > perform Japa exactly the same thing happens.....finally what I want to >say to you my dear friend is that you should do what you should not regret >later... no god or goddess says that you should eat this or that. Only now >that man has become more environment friendly and thinks of the animals - >they can't speak, etc... why kill them and eat them as if nothing else is >available.... perhaps it is best to conclude that man has started believing >in the supernatural being who is always watching us.... GOD! ...just >concentrate on your japa... I feel one mala is somewhat less... try to >attain sixteen mala... which is perhaps time consuming and difficult >anyway... so target 4 malas of japa and be intense....by the way have you >or anyone of the society seen bright multicolored lights flashing away >while performing japa...it indicates reaching of certain stage...as you go >on intensifying....you will see what we call the "Gandharvas" ....it will >take time and effort to see them...but is really > worth it. Imagine seeing their faces; they will not talk but will be >cheerifully moving around...talking to the Gandharvas...well going far am >I? Take care... Om Namah Shivaya! >Jamini > >syzenith <syzenith wrote: >Dear Rohini, > >Much agree with Shri Rajeswaraji and Jaminiji too. They both have >explained things excellently. > >Jai Maa >Sy > >, Jamini Padhi ><jamini_padhi> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini Ji, > > I fully agree with Rajeshwarji; some of the reiki masters can tell >what one has eaten because they can feel you vibrations. > > As far as Maa Parvati is concerned; she is so simple even though >she is the consort of Lord Mahadev. I have had first hand experience >so I can vouch for it. She will listen when everyone else turns a >deaf ear. > > Jamini > > > > rajeswara rao <sarvadu> wrote: > > dear rohini ji, > > > > there is nothing wrong in eating meat >or consuming alchol if you have a habit. but in order to follow a >purified path one has to follow some rules out of which abstainence >from meat n wine is one as they develop tamsic vibrations/feeling in >our body. Nevertheless, when you start moving closure to the divine >power of god/goddess you will automatically develop a dislike and >move away from meat and wine. > > > > Vaishno Devi is mostly identified with Mahalakshmi >although She is the combined shakti's of all three ie. Mahakali, >Mahalakshmi and Mahasaraswati. > > as already said the different forms of god/goddess were >taken only for a noble purpose, and that form is not permanent.to >sum up, the god/goddess is a collective form of the nava (9) >rasas. if parvati took the form of durga it was only to end >mahisha the demon. otherwise parvati is ever compassionate and >pious. so i dont find any need to inmitate the characteristics of >different transient forms of god/goddess. > > > > with regards > > rajeswara > > > > Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > > Dear Rajeshwarji, > > > > Thanks for the feedback. So does that mean it is ok to eat meat >and drink > > alcohol? However when you go to Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine, there is >no sign > > of meat or alcohol for miles around. Mata Vaishno Devi has >revealed herself > > as Maha Saraswati, MahaLakshmi and MahaKali as three Pindis in the >Holy > > Cave. The term Vaishno means vegetarian. > > > > Could you please explain? > > > > Om Namah Shivaye > > > > Rohini > > > > > > >rajeswara rao <sarvadu> > > > > > > > > >RBSC : mantra question/to Rohini ji > > >Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:15:19 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >Dear Rohini ji > > > > > >Agree with what you said. Shiva and Parvati have many forms, each > > >representing particular characteric. howvever, all these forms >are taken > > >by Shiva or Parvati for a noble cause. > > >Durga's story appears primarily in the Skanda Purana, in Chandi. >She also > > >appears elsewhere in tantrik texts, including as Mahishamardini >(killer of > > >the demon Mahisha) The gods lost their empire to two great >antigods > > >(asuras), Shumbha and Nishumbha, and prayed to the Goddess for >help. > > >Needless to say, the ever compassionate Devi took on these proud >antigods > > >and vanquished them utterly. To this end, she assembled an entire >army of > > >Shaktis similar to her and when things became very tough, >projected KALIKA > > >out of her third eye. She is called Durga because she slayed the >son of the > > >arch-demon Durga, son of Ruru..As LALITA, she subdued the demonic > > >Bhandasura at the request of the gods, who then built the SHRI >YANTRA to > > >celebrate her greatness. > > >The names of the God or Goddess are really adjectives, and they >are one, > > >under these different descriptions. For example, the goddess in >Chandi > > >takes the forms of Kali, Sarasvati and Vaishnavi, representing >the three > > >gunas, to subdue the host of demons. > > > > > >Bhairava is the God Shiva in one of his most fearsome, terrifying > > >aspects.Bhairawa created from Shiva when Shiva clipped off one of >Brahma's > > >(Indian creator-god ) five heads. Brahma's fifth head, was very >nasty. > > >It was completely insane and liked to devour everything Brahma >created. It > > >was threatening to eat the whole universe and cackling rather >madly on this > > >particular day, just blaspheming and threatening off everyone. >So Shiva > > >sliced it off with one of his thumbnails. In this aspect, he is >said to > > >destroy the false self. In this aspect God cannot be known >intellectually. > > >He is the eternal, witnessing Subject that can never be an object >of > > >thought. Although He is the source of those attributes which >characterize > > >created objects, He himself cannot be characterized. > > > > > >So it depends on which form of Shiva or Parvati you adore. I >would also > > >suggest that offering oneself (i.e. ego-complex or core >identifications) as > > >sacrifice to Bhairava could become the basis for a monasticism >based around > > >the deliberate transgression of personal taboos and boundaries. >In general > > >though, one should avoid too literal an emulation of >Bhairawa/Agori or > > >Kapalika practices and vows these days! > > > > > >with regards > > > > > >rajeswara > > >Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > > >I am confused...... > > > > > >There are so many contradictions between what a devotee is >preached and > > >what > > >the religious books say. For example: > > > > > >Lord Shiva is said to be fond of Bhang (an intoxicant) while a >Shiva Bhakta > > >is discouraged from using alcohol. > > > > > >Lord Shiva is son with his consort Parvati yet most Shiva >devotees are > > >brahmacharis. > > > > > >Durga who is a form of Parvati who is Shiva's consort, has 108 >names > > >including Seedupriya (fond of drinks) and Maamsapriya (fond of >flesh). > > >devotees are discouraged from using these foods. > > > > > >Bhairav who is a form of Shiva is said to be fond of meat and >alcohol. As a > > >matter of fact, country liquor is used as an offering for Bhairav >puja. > > >Shiva devotees are preached against the use of these foods. > > > > > >Can anyone help to clarify this and put some light on this >subject. > > > > > >Om Namah Shivaye > > > > > >Rohini > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to: - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > > > > > > >To send an email to: > Links > > >/ > > > > > > > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > > _______________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Dear Rohiniji, Thank you my friend for your reply...I hope you have not misunderstood me... but you are already learned enough... those are the two basic questions in every awakened person! Do write in ....like AumShiningLotus does... Om Namah Shivaya! Jamini Rohini W <rohininj wrote: Jaminiji, Thank you for sharing your thoughts......I meditate everyday and have tried to simply my life after a very hectic corporate life which involved Big 5 consulting and extensive travel. One day I simply asked myself - Am I living to work or am I working to live? Similarly, Am I am eating to live or living to eat? Answering these simple questions brought a big change in my life and has given me great peace of mind and healthy living. Om Aeeng Hreem Shreem Kleem Hreem Namah Shivaya, Shivaya Namah Om Rohini >Jamini Padhi <jamini_padhi > > >RBSC : Re:RBSC:mantra question/to Rohini Vaishno Devi >Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:58:31 -0800 (PST) > >Dear Rohiniji, > >Thanks Sy; one other thing is the "mind". If your mind,which is controlled >by your soul, says that you are doing something wrong then you are prone to >think...or feel guilty if you proceed... in that case why proceed...? On >the other hand you have either prepared or gone for a lavish dinner and >happen to see someone else hogging away something which you like/d very >much - your stomach is rumbling or the mouth is watering... why torture >yourself.. go right ahead. (After sometime, it is still strange to me, you >will start feeling odd, the very thing which attacted you would turn out to >be distasteful). Here come the factor of right, wrong and self discipline. >Through meditation which, you are performing (you are really lucky) daily, >you must have instilled in you a lot of self control.... this is something >I have learnt from martial arts - after/during attaining the Black Belt >level one goes into the mental plane - the mind is focussed and locked to >the outside world. So when I > perform Japa exactly the same thing happens.....finally what I want to >say to you my dear friend is that you should do what you should not regret >later... no god or goddess says that you should eat this or that. Only now >that man has become more environment friendly and thinks of the animals - >they can't speak, etc... why kill them and eat them as if nothing else is >available.... perhaps it is best to conclude that man has started believing >in the supernatural being who is always watching us.... GOD! ...just >concentrate on your japa... I feel one mala is somewhat less... try to >attain sixteen mala... which is perhaps time consuming and difficult >anyway... so target 4 malas of japa and be intense....by the way have you >or anyone of the society seen bright multicolored lights flashing away >while performing japa...it indicates reaching of certain stage...as you go >on intensifying....you will see what we call the "Gandharvas" ....it will >take time and effort to see them...but is really > worth it. Imagine seeing their faces; they will not talk but will be >cheerifully moving around...talking to the Gandharvas...well going far am >I? Take care... Om Namah Shivaya! >Jamini > >syzenith <syzenith wrote: >Dear Rohini, > >Much agree with Shri Rajeswaraji and Jaminiji too. They both have >explained things excellently. > >Jai Maa >Sy > >, Jamini Padhi ><jamini_padhi> wrote: > > > Dear Rohini Ji, > > I fully agree with Rajeshwarji; some of the reiki masters can tell >what one has eaten because they can feel you vibrations. > > As far as Maa Parvati is concerned; she is so simple even though >she is the consort of Lord Mahadev. I have had first hand experience >so I can vouch for it. She will listen when everyone else turns a >deaf ear. > > Jamini > > > > rajeswara rao <sarvadu> wrote: > > dear rohini ji, > > > > there is nothing wrong in eating meat >or consuming alchol if you have a habit. but in order to follow a >purified path one has to follow some rules out of which abstainence >from meat n wine is one as they develop tamsic vibrations/feeling in >our body. Nevertheless, when you start moving closure to the divine >power of god/goddess you will automatically develop a dislike and >move away from meat and wine. > > > > Vaishno Devi is mostly identified with Mahalakshmi >although She is the combined shakti's of all three ie. Mahakali, >Mahalakshmi and Mahasaraswati. > > as already said the different forms of god/goddess were >taken only for a noble purpose, and that form is not permanent.to >sum up, the god/goddess is a collective form of the nava (9) >rasas. if parvati took the form of durga it was only to end >mahisha the demon. otherwise parvati is ever compassionate and >pious. so i dont find any need to inmitate the characteristics of >different transient forms of god/goddess. > > > > with regards > > rajeswara > > > > Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > > Dear Rajeshwarji, > > > > Thanks for the feedback. So does that mean it is ok to eat meat >and drink > > alcohol? However when you go to Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine, there is >no sign > > of meat or alcohol for miles around. Mata Vaishno Devi has >revealed herself > > as Maha Saraswati, MahaLakshmi and MahaKali as three Pindis in the >Holy > > Cave. The term Vaishno means vegetarian. > > > > Could you please explain? > > > > Om Namah Shivaye > > > > Rohini > > > > > > >rajeswara rao <sarvadu> > > > > > > > > >RBSC : mantra question/to Rohini ji > > >Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:15:19 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >Dear Rohini ji > > > > > >Agree with what you said. Shiva and Parvati have many forms, each > > >representing particular characteric. howvever, all these forms >are taken > > >by Shiva or Parvati for a noble cause. > > >Durga's story appears primarily in the Skanda Purana, in Chandi. >She also > > >appears elsewhere in tantrik texts, including as Mahishamardini >(killer of > > >the demon Mahisha) The gods lost their empire to two great >antigods > > >(asuras), Shumbha and Nishumbha, and prayed to the Goddess for >help. > > >Needless to say, the ever compassionate Devi took on these proud >antigods > > >and vanquished them utterly. To this end, she assembled an entire >army of > > >Shaktis similar to her and when things became very tough, >projected KALIKA > > >out of her third eye. She is called Durga because she slayed the >son of the > > >arch-demon Durga, son of Ruru..As LALITA, she subdued the demonic > > >Bhandasura at the request of the gods, who then built the SHRI >YANTRA to > > >celebrate her greatness. > > >The names of the God or Goddess are really adjectives, and they >are one, > > >under these different descriptions. For example, the goddess in >Chandi > > >takes the forms of Kali, Sarasvati and Vaishnavi, representing >the three > > >gunas, to subdue the host of demons. > > > > > >Bhairava is the God Shiva in one of his most fearsome, terrifying > > >aspects.Bhairawa created from Shiva when Shiva clipped off one of >Brahma's > > >(Indian creator-god ) five heads. Brahma's fifth head, was very >nasty. > > >It was completely insane and liked to devour everything Brahma >created. It > > >was threatening to eat the whole universe and cackling rather >madly on this > > >particular day, just blaspheming and threatening off everyone. >So Shiva > > >sliced it off with one of his thumbnails. In this aspect, he is >said to > > >destroy the false self. In this aspect God cannot be known >intellectually. > > >He is the eternal, witnessing Subject that can never be an object >of > > >thought. Although He is the source of those attributes which >characterize > > >created objects, He himself cannot be characterized. > > > > > >So it depends on which form of Shiva or Parvati you adore. I >would also > > >suggest that offering oneself (i.e. ego-complex or core >identifications) as > > >sacrifice to Bhairava could become the basis for a monasticism >based around > > >the deliberate transgression of personal taboos and boundaries. >In general > > >though, one should avoid too literal an emulation of >Bhairawa/Agori or > > >Kapalika practices and vows these days! > > > > > >with regards > > > > > >rajeswara > > >Rohini W <rohininj@h...> wrote: > > >I am confused...... > > > > > >There are so many contradictions between what a devotee is >preached and > > >what > > >the religious books say. For example: > > > > > >Lord Shiva is said to be fond of Bhang (an intoxicant) while a >Shiva Bhakta > > >is discouraged from using alcohol. > > > > > >Lord Shiva is son with his consort Parvati yet most Shiva >devotees are > > >brahmacharis. > > > > > >Durga who is a form of Parvati who is Shiva's consort, has 108 >names > > >including Seedupriya (fond of drinks) and Maamsapriya (fond of >flesh). > > >devotees are discouraged from using these foods. > > > > > >Bhairav who is a form of Shiva is said to be fond of meat and >alcohol. As a > > >matter of fact, country liquor is used as an offering for Bhairav >puja. > > >Shiva devotees are preached against the use of these foods. > > > > > >Can anyone help to clarify this and put some light on this >subject. > > > > > >Om Namah Shivaye > > > > > >Rohini > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to: - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > > > > > > >To send an email to: > Links > > >/ > > > > > > > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > > _______________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ To send an email to: / Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.