The old man & his God - Sudha Murthy

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starting studying and explaining scriptures to others, otherwise the Great

Vanity will destroy us. someone says Upansihads finished, Srimad Bhagwad

Geetha almost finishing hahahahaha.... My dear friend, the question is Is

Geetha study is able to finish your vanity??? People can go to temple, does not

mean that they are spiritual, like even a milkman also go to the Palace dining

room, does not mean that he is close to the King. His job is to deliver milk to

the Palace.... Please think folks! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad with

Love & OM! Krishna PrasadRamanath Babu <ramanath_babu (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

Dear Mr. Nair, After I wrote the letter under

refernece, few members responded and I was thinking not to react to any of them.

However, after reading your letter, I chanded my decision and decided to write.

Let me start from the last line of your letter. I did'nt hurt me in any

manner as I very well understand athat you have every right to react to the

writtings of any members in this group. Similarly, I too have a right to

express myself, whether right or wrong. Whatever I have written is my

perception. You and others may hae a difference of opinion, and you have every

right to stick on that. If my perception is not worth to be considered to be

printed in this Forum, the Moderation may refuse that, or else he will allow me

to express myself. So the question of anyone hurting anyone else just because

both of them do not think on the same wavelength, does not arise. I am a firm

believer of the philosophy of Adi Shankara and it

is my belief that everthing in this world is 'Maya'. We cannot even move our

little finger, without the Will of the God, that is what I feel about. I do

not believe in the 'Freewill' of individual. If there is any Will of somebody

in our life, it is of Lord only. My perception is that the whole world, the

whole universe varies in every walks of life. If there is day, there have be

night. If there is a hill, there should be slope, if there is good, there

should be bad too, as these are all two sides of the same coin. You cannot

think of a world, where everyone is spiritually awakned, safron clad. God's

will is that while majority of masses lead a normal life - i.e. life with a

family, wife and children and parents,,One fine day they say good-bye to this

world with perhaps the satisfaction of having successfully fulfilled their

duties. That is absolutely fine. A miniscule of people turn into vigours

spirituality, opting for saint hood in the old age and they too will die with a

peace of mind of having fulfilled motiff of his life. This is also absolutely

fine. Look at the air we breath in. I consists of main gases, out of which

the proportion of Oxygen is 1/5th. The cycle of this nature is that it keeps

the ratio of Oxygen constantly around 1/5th. When mass deforestation is done

and the humans try to imbalance the nature, it reacts - often violently perhaps

with a hurricane, or a massive earth-quake wipinig out many. But in my opinion,

by doing so, nature is only restoring the parity. Similarly, we have to keep the

balance in our society. Also Hindu books speak about the four ashrams, very few

go by the book rules, and rightly so. If every one goes by the text, then you

would see sizeable number of senior citizens in saffron clothes, wandering

aimlessly. Thank God, by the Will of the God that is not

happening, for the good of this world. The other side is that if nobody takes

up sanyasa, that too I think is not good. So the God's will here is that a

miniscule number of people will opt for it, the majority will ignore. Quite a

few members here have argued that they can attain the ultimate by remaining

'karmayogis' - leading normal life with their wife and children. This is like

'having the cake and eats it too'. They want to have all the material

pleasures and yet want to get the spiritual bliss. I feel these two do not go

hand-in hand. I may be wrong. It is again my personal opinion. Anybody can

proclaim himself that "Iam a Karmayogi' - that is from their point of view.

the others may differ on that. ON Mahabali whatever you know and learned

about him, are also perhaps in my knowledge. Despite all the reasoning put

forward by many, my inference on the

subject is a bit different. EVerybody agree that Bali was a very good King,

very benovalent. Yet for the fear that the asuras will takeover heavents, Lord

Vishnu took the avatar of Vamana to annihilate such a benevalent kind - we are

told. To my mind, the only crime Bali has done is that he was too good a

ruler. In this connection I remember an old Malayalam movie 'Kumara Sambhavam'

in which the young Karthikeya asks his father Lord Shiva whether it is right on

Lord Shiva's part to give such an important job - creation - to Brahma who

could not answer a simple question put forward my Kumara. To this, Lord Shiva

replies that Brahma is the right person to do creation in this world and if the

creation is done by a person like you, who is complete in all respects - his

creations will also be complete in all respects. That is what the nature

does'nt want. EVerything in this world should be incomple. One should

compliment the other. Then only the

life will go on. So what Bali was trying, creating a Uthopean society, was

perhaps just not in the scheme of things of Lord, or in other words of the

universe. Therefore, he had to go. That is what my interpretation. It may be

absurd absolutely. But I think so and worte. As I said earlier, you have every

right to reject it outrightly. Two incidents in our Puranas agitated my mind.

One is the killing of Bali and the other is the killing of Bali by Lord Ram. In

the first case, I have explained my inference. I can't believe that Lord

Vishnu is like a modern-day Bush. Just because of his fear that Iraq will

attack America, he invaded Iraq to pre-empt any such move. Should I believe

that Lord Vishnu was pre-emping any move by Bali and other Asuras by sending to

Paatala. I am ardent devotee of Lord Vishnu and I do not think He would

haved acted like a modern day Bush. With kindest regards to all, Babu

GOPI NAIR <gopi_nair37 > wrote: With all respect i would like

to clear some points of Sriman. Ramanath Babu, He had clearly express the

feelings of the present days humans towards the materialistic love. This love

towards materialistic is selfish ness. As we are born & brought up in the

materialistic world, we are practiced to...or we are trained to.. or we brought

up to ... love the materialistic plessures..It is really very clear in

Sriman.Ramanathan's words. He explains the "asramas" well. But he is conforming

that the man will

finally turn in to the sprituality after grihastasram. Here i want to put my

words too.. The lake of information about the sprituality or the bliss is very

much affected our society. All our asramas and the duty is defined. But we

should understand that we are doing the duties and it is on behalf of the

Lord... or for the Lord., and we should do all the duties in very perfect and

best manner to get the positive and most appreciable results. Each and every

doings of the people is to thank him for this blessed life. But there we should

eleminate the "AHAM".... If we start to feel that existence of ourself in all

doings we failed in performing the duties for him. If we surrender all our

duties to him and do perfect, we will get the results and reach the goal. It is

allowed to live a life with all pleasures in the world with all devotion. The

main Goal of a human is to find the bliss, only the human being

can reach this level. All the living things are doing their duties with their

lure for their own plessure as they dont know how to think and realise the

bliss, after having all pleasures and pain one final moment these living things

will die but human beings are not for a just end, there is a left over part

finding the real bliss to get the goal... if you never thought about that from

the begining you will never search for... With full enjoyment of all pleasures

we (our soul) should be out of that sense as it is not the main goal and its

materialistic pleasure... ok we can say it is not possible for all as they are

illitrates, but we cant say it is not advisable to advocate. And about Mahabali

& Vamana, i strongly disagree with your words and thoughts as you say with the

support of american hippism. The clear messages has to be understand first

before explaining the same, and we should be very careful to not give an wrong

idea

about our own. Mahabali was sent to Pathalam, is not because the jealus of

Indra, these type of feelings are created by us in the puranas as we are the

one who made it.... The main message is the Goal of Mahabali was wrong, he did

all things perfect but the result came negative because the Goal was wrong. And

Sriman. Ramanath Babu express his feeling about the anarchy, if there is no

desire is left in a man... Sir, let me ask you, when a man can say there is no

more desire in him.... if he is having the correct goal in his thoughts and

act, with out reaching there or finding the real bliss no body can say that

there is no desire left over. Yes, the people who are only thinking about the

material pleassures they can not say their desires are over. With out finding

the real bliss the greediness will not get eliminated. Dont discourage others

by saying not everybody's cup of tea. May be its

not yours. If there is a desire to do so the human being can do. with all

respect i advice you to do more studies on the topics which you had discussed

to learn more before writting essays. All our efforts should have a possitive

result. If you thing negative its your mistake not others. Please correct

yourself. Sorry if i hurt any one by saying this. Messenger with

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understand,nothing wrong in it. i was given a krishna mamtra by my guru,8

years back,I was chasing gnana then still do,I wondered why,he smiled at me and

said,krishna can give gnana too.I accepted silently,i was advised to get married

in a year,I did,or i would sa it happened.do yo know what he does he gives

bhagavatha lectures,i never could understand then,but after 8 years i am wise

now.i still laugh at my ignorance then. llet me give a brief glimpse of

him,he was born in a tamil vedic family,learnt vedam from his father till 17

years,his father use to advise john woodroff on tantra,strtes learning english

in his 17 year finished his ca by 24,worked all over the world,picked up robes

after son finished b tech from iit.he was begging for robes from early age,but

was refused,third gen disciples of ramakrishna,use to live in vashist guha,his

guru gave him a book,bhaghavata ,preach the

world, I got a dobt then,what can a mumukshu learn gnana from bhaghavatha,all

pranks of sri krishna,adventues of krishna on snakes,ras lilas in brindavan, I

thought probably geeta would be more appropriate, i was a moron, still am one

but i know i am,in spiritual path thats excellent progress, the first time

krishna shows vishwa roopa is tto his mother,the dance in the lake of kalindi

on kundalini,brindavanam and rasa leela. one day a old lady was watching ramana

maharshi,very keenly,she was thinking inside how beautiful he looks,old man with

a lion cloth,she could not why so,it seems maharshi turned and smiled and said

satyam sivam sundaram.a realized soul exudes beauty one cannot imagine,it is

the unknown/avayaktha touching your heart centre.gopikas were swaying aroung

krishna in a bliss. there is a place in ap called mantra layam,where sri

raghavendra on aparticular day went into brindavanam,do you know

how. he sat in a padmasana,went into samadhi,they constructed a samadhi,over

him,that is leaving deha.these people show us in kali yuga,the puranas and

vedas are not stories, only yati in mahabharatha vidhura,jeevan muktha dharma

raja,average sadhaka cannot compare himself with arjuna,and assume he can learn

from a book,same way puranas have to be interpreted properly,from a guru,every

character in mahabharatha is mind blowing,without understanding them how can

one try to interpret sri krishna,logic is sometimes counter productive,he is a

yuga purusha,to whom maharshis prostate and prey,can one imagine sri rama,and

try to interpret his actions,intellect without bhakthi destoys sadhana beyond

repair,one has learn bhakti from gnanis like maharshi,nisarga was dattatreya

follower, can one believe with whole heart ahalyas shapa vimochana,most of

them cant,then how can one realize rama or understand ramayana,i visited ananda

ashram in

kerala,just check out if anybody is from kerala,stay for a week one will get

little inkling of ramayana, later,let me run.have to pick up kids from school,

amarnath.Ramanath Babu <ramanath_babu (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Mr. Nair, After

I wrote the letter under reference, few members responded and I was thinking not

to react to any of them. However, after reading your letter, I changed my

decision and decided to write. Let me start from the last line of your letter.

It didn’t hurt me in any manner as I very well understand that you have every

right to react to the writings of any member in this group. Similarly, I too

have a right to express myself, whether right or wrong. Whatever I have written

is my perception. You and others may

have a difference of opinion, and you have every right to stick to that. If my

perception is not worth to be considered to be printed in this Forum, the

Moderator may refuse that, or otherwise he will allow me to express myself. So

the question of anyone hurting anyone else, just because both of them do not

think on the same wavelength, does not arise. I am a firm believer of the

philosophy of Adi Shankara and it is my belief that everything in this world is

'Maya'. We cannot even move our little finger, without the Will of the God,

that is what I feel about. I do not believe in the 'Freewill' of individual.

If there is any Will of somebody in our life, it is of Lord’s Will only. My

perception is that the whole world, the whole universe varies in every walks of

life. If there is day, there has to be night. If there is a hill, there should

be slope, if there is good, there should be bad too, as these are all two sides

of the same coin. You cannot think of a world, where everyone is spiritually

awakened, saffron clad. God's will is that while majority of masses lead a

normal life - i.e. life with a family, wife and children and parents. Then one

fine day they say good-bye to this world with perhaps the satisfaction of

having successfully fulfilled their duties. That is absolutely fine. A

miniscule of people turn into vigours spirituality, opting for saint hood in

the old age and they too will die with a peace of mind of having fulfilled

motif of his life. This is also absolutely fine.

LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt">Look at the air we breath in. It consists of many gases,

out of which the proportion of Oxygen is 1/5th. The cycle of this nature is

that it keeps the ratio of Oxygen constantly around 1:5. When mass

deforestation is done and the humans try to imbalance the nature, it reacts -

often violently perhaps with a hurricane, or a massive earth-quake wiping out

many. But in my opinion, by doing so, the nature is only restoring the parity.

Similarly, we have to keep the balance in our society. Hindu books speak about

the four ashrams, very few go by the book rules, and rightly so. If every one

goes by the text, then you would see sizeable number of senior citizens in

saffron clothes, wandering aimlessly. Thank God, by the Will of the God that is

not happening, for the good of this world. The other side is that if nobody

takes up sanyasa, that too I think is

not good. So the God's will here is that a miniscule number of people will opt

for it, the majority will ignore. Quite a few members here have argued that

they can attain the ultimate by remaining 'karmayogis' - leading normal life

with their wife and children. This is like 'having the cake and eats it too'.

They want to have all the material pleasures and yet want to get the spiritual

bliss. I feel these two do not go hand-in hand. I may be wrong. It is again

my personal opinion. Anybody can proclaim himself that "I am a Karmayogi' -

that is from their point of view, the others may differ on that. On Mahabali

whatever you know and learned about him, are also perhaps in my knowledge.

Despite all the reasoning put forward by many, my inference on the subject is a

bit different. Everybody agree that Bali was a very good King, very benevolent.

Yet for the fear that the asuras will takeover heavens, Lord Vishnu took the

avatar of Vamana to annihilate such a benevolent king - we are told. To my

mind, the only crime Bali has done is that he was too good a ruler. In this

connection I remember an old Malayalam movie 'Kumara Sambhavam' in which the

young Karthikeya asks his father Lord Shiva whether it is right on Lord Shiva's

part to give such an important job - creation - to Brahma who could not answer a

simple question put forward my Kumara. To this, Lord Shiva replies that Brahma

is the right person to do creation in this world and if the creation is done by

a person like you, who is

complete in all respects - his creations will also be complete in all respects.

That is what the nature doesn’t want. Everything in this world should be

incomplete. One should compliment the other. Then only the life will go on.

So what Bali was trying, creating a Utopian society, was perhaps just not in

the scheme of things of Lord, or in other words of the universe. Therefore, he

had to go. That is what my interpretation. It may be absurd absolutely. But I

think so and wrote. As I said earlier, you have every right to reject it

outrightly.

LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt">Two incidents in our Puranas agitated my mind from my

childhood. One is the killing of Maha Bali and the other is the killing of

Baali by Lord Ram. In the first case, I have explained my inference. I can't

believe that Lord Vishnu is like a modern-day Bush. Just because of his fear

that Iraq will attack America, he invaded Iraq to pre-empt any such move.

Should I believe that Lord Vishnu was pre-empting any move by Bali and other

Asuras by sending to Paatala. I am ardent devotee of Lord Vishnu and I do not

think He would have acted like a modern day Bush. With kindest regards to

all, Babu

mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language:

AR-SA">GOPI NAIR <gopi_nair37 > wrote: With all respect i would like

to clear some points of Sriman. Ramanath Babu, He had clearly express the

feelings of the present days humans towards the materialistic love. This love

towards materialistic is selfish ness. As we are born & brought up in the

materialistic world, we are practiced to...or we are trained to.. or we brought

up to ... love the materialistic plessures..It is really very clear in

Sriman.Ramanathan's words. He explains the "asramas" well. But he is conforming

that the man will finally turn in to the sprituality after grihastasram. Here i

want to put my words too.. The lake of information about the sprituality or the

bliss is very much

affected our society. All our asramas and the duty is defined. But we should

understand that we are doing the duties and it is on behalf of the Lord... or

for the Lord., and we should do all the duties in very perfect and best manner

to get the positive and most appreciable results. Each and every doings of the

people is to thank him for this blessed life. But there we should eleminate the

"AHAM".... If we start to feel that existence of ourself in all doings we failed

in performing the duties for him. If we surrender all our duties to him and do

perfect, we will get the results and reach the goal. It is allowed to live a

life with all pleasures in the world with all devotion. The main Goal of a

human is to find the bliss, only the human being can reach this level. All the

living things are doing their duties with their lure for their own plessure as

they dont know how to think and realise the bliss, after having

all pleasures and pain one final moment these living things will die but human

beings are not for a just end, there is a left over part finding the real bliss

to get the goal... if you never thought about that from the begining you will

never search for... With full enjoyment of all pleasures we (our soul) should

be out of that sense as it is not the main goal and its materialistic

pleasure... ok we can say it is not possible for all as they are illitrates,

but we cant say it is not advisable to advocate. And about Mahabali & Vamana, i

strongly disagree with your words and thoughts as you say with the support of

american hippism. The clear messages has to be understand first before

explaining the same, and we should be very careful to not give an wrong idea

about our own. Mahabali was sent to Pathalam, is not because the jealus of

Indra, these type of feelings are created by us in the puranas as we are the

one who made

it.... The main message is the Goal of Mahabali was wrong, he did all things

perfect but the result came negative because the Goal was wrong. And Sriman.

Ramanath Babu express his feeling about the anarchy, if there is no desire is

left in a man... Sir, let me ask you, when a man can say there is no more

desire in him.... if he is having the correct goal in his thoughts and act,

with out reaching there or finding the real bliss no body can say that there is

no desire left over. Yes, the people who are only thinking about the material

pleassures they can not say their desires are over. With out finding the real

bliss the greediness will not get eliminated. Dont discourage others by saying

not everybody's cup of tea. May be its not yours. If there is a desire to do so

the human being can do. with all respect i advice you to do more studies on the

topics which you had discussed to

learn more before writting essays. All our efforts should have a possitive

result. If you thing negative its your mistake not others. Please correct

yourself. Sorry if i hurt any one by saying this. Messenger with

Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Jiyo cricket on India cricket Messenger Mobile Stay in touch

with your buddies all the time.

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.