prakriti

[Guest guest]

On Mar 11, 2005, at 8:23 AM, ayurveda wrote:

 

> One proof of the fact is that inspite of so many books and so many

> articles on the net on "Prakriti", the simple fact that prakriti is

> determined at birth, is determined by the doshic constitution of the

> shukra and raja dhatu (roughly the sperm and the ovum) and never

> changes throughout life is never succesfully communicated to the

> reader.

 

 

ok, i agree with the first part, but take some issue with the second

i have spoken to many vaidyas on this subject - and the opinion is mixed

 

i am of the opinion that most people (incl. practitioners) confuse

prakriti and vikriti, and when analyzing the prakriti don't account for

pathological changes, for example, becoming obese doesn't necessarily

mean one has become more kapha - this is too simplistic - the key thing

to understand is that prakriti is not your disease, and vice versa

 

however, there is a parallel line of thinking that the prakriti DOES

change over time

for e.g., my good friend Alan Tillotson apprenticed with the late Dr.

Mana Bajracharja of Nepal, who certainly was one of the most advanced

practitioners of Ayurveda on the sub-continent - a hereditary physician

that traced his lineage back 700 years, performing ophthamological

surgery, and had a vast library containing exceedingly rare Ayurvedic

texts written in the original Sanskrit and various prakrits

 

Dr. Mana had a busy practice and clinic, serving not only the local

population, but also many westerners that came to him for the treatment

of chronic diseases such as MS and cancer

 

normally Alan observed that Dr. Mana was a small thin fellow, typical

for many Indians, certainly reflecting a more vattika prakriti

 

after a several years of returning to Nepal and studying with Dr. Mana,

on one occasion Alan returned and noticed that Dr. Mana had bulked up

considerably, and had thick, well-developed muscles

 

Alan asked him how this could be, and Dr. Mana said "I have changed my

prakriti, to become more pitta, so I can deal with you westerners more

effectively" (after all, we westerners value the qualities of pitta

over all the others...)

 

if we look at the schemata of the samkhya darshana, the tanmatras (i.e.

smell, taste, sight etc.) precede the evolution of the buthas (i.e.

earth, water, fire etc.)

 

in otherwords, sense objects give rise to corporeality - this suggests

that consciousness precedes form, since the tanmatras are dependent

upon the jnana indriyas (i.e. the senses)

 

if that is the case, then simply changing the way we perceive and think

about something can have an impact on the way the world works -

however, it takes a sustained consciousness to affect these changes,

and most humans have too short an attention span to see something like

this through, even though many people over come adversity and seemingly

impossible situations every day

 

> One of our group member Todd is now writing a textbook on ayurveda.

> I do hope he comes out with something substanstial and does not only

> add to the statistics of "books on ayurveda".

> how about a complimentary copy for the moderators ;->

 

that may be a possibility - i will check with my publishers (and you

will have to reveal yourself to me...)

[Guest guest]

Dear

I agree with you that many people wrongly assume a vikruti to

prakriti.

That is why determination of prakriti is not as easy as it seems in

the self-help books.

However somtimes they are helpful in giving an idea about the

concept of Prakriti.

With all due respect to Dr. Mana, I think the answer he gave Alan

must surely be in jest.

For even if had changed his prakriti to have bulked up with thick,

well developed muscles it would be an attempt towards kapha prakriti

and not pitta as he mentions in his answer.

Secondly to deal with pitta prakriti people, kapha prakriti would be

more useful.

Two pitta prakriti people lead to conditions like the Iraq war :->.

I will take the above mentioned case of Dr. Mana to explain how the

concept of prakriti works.

Asuume 3 people of differing prakritis namely vata, pitta and kapha,

aged say about 25 and due to some unnatural circumstances having all

turned out skinny and of medium built.

Now supossing they approach a dietician who has no idea of prakriti,

and he gives them a dietary regimen with all the essential nutrients

required to built up good muscles.

What will happen is the person with kapha prakriti will respond

almost immediately to this regimen and within 3 to 6 months will

have well developed and bulky muscles. Pitta prakriti person will

take 6 months to 1 year for the same while vata prakriti person also

will have the same result but only after a period of 2 to 3 years.

So just building up muscles or making physical changes like cosmetic

makeovers does not mean prakriti has changed.

This is why determination of prakriti is such an essential part of

ayurvedic treatment.

Prakriti determines how your body will respond to the stimuli you

provide from outside, but left on its own it will generally tend to

manifest the symptoms which are mentioned in detail in Charak

Samhita (the questionnaire of many self-help books is based on this).

So the concept that prakriti never changes is very clear and is one

of the fundamental basic of ayurveda.

Though ayurveda and samkhya darshan have influenced each other, the

concept of prakriti cannot be related to the evolution of the bhutas

and the tanmatras. Prakriti does not evolve from anything. It is the

result of the respective position of the doshas at the time of

conception.

Also the tanmatra are not dependant upon the jnana indriyas. They

will exist even in the absence of jnana indriyas. The evolution of

tanmatras and jnana indriyas are from two opposing features of

ahamkara. Jnana indriyas are mediums of perceiving the tanmatras

while the bhutas are the actual personification of the tanmatras.

 

Cybervaidya

 

Original message -

http://health.ayurveda/message/3393

[Guest guest]

> For even if had changed his prakriti to have bulked up with thick,

> well developed muscles it would be an attempt towards kapha prakriti

 

dr. mana became muscular, from a skinny nepalese vaidya to almost a

"ripped" body-builder

 

> Secondly to deal with pitta prakriti people, kapha prakriti would be

> more useful.

 

perhpas - however, dr. mana must have had his reasons - its also true

that "power" often only respects another "power"

 

> Two pitta prakriti people lead to conditions like the Iraq war

 

or a good rugby team... it depends not only on the physical prakriti,

but on the nature of the consciousness that inhabits it...

 

> What will happen is the person with kapha prakriti will respond

> almost immediately to this regimen

 

that's a good description, clinically useful, but it doesn't always

bear out in reality

for e.g., many people have an accelerated metabolism in youth and

maintain an asthenic build until their mid-40's, after which they begin

to put on weight and thus become more kapha; similarly, somebody can be

quite "chubby" in youth, but in their 20's lose the weight quite easily

- all of this can happen without dramatic dietary or lifestyle changes,

or pathological changes (unless life processes are viewed as an

inherent pathology - sometimes the distinction is difficult to make)

 

>Prakriti does not evolve from anything. It is the result of the

> respective position of the doshas at the time of conception.

 

the doshas arise from panchabhautic interaction, and thus prakriti of

course relates to the status of the buthas at birth

 

however, the prakriti arises from numerous complex factors that

influence the evolution of the fetus, including the doshic profile of

the shukla (semen) and andanu (ovum) at conception, the time and season

of conception, the mother's prakriti (and vikriti), diet and lifestyle

habits during gestation, the nature of the consciousness which inhabits

this body, and the time, season and conditions of birth

 

thus the prakriti, which was traditionally determined at birth (as per

Caraka and the AH) can be seen as an aggregate of factors, and birth is

the defining moment of how those factors in turn evolve

 

i liken prakriti to a stone thrown into a pond - the stone is the

moment of birth, and the ripples being the direction of that life;

similarly, the prakriti can be compared to the natal chart in

astrology, which can reveal a key information about the general

direction of the person's life, but not how it will actually evolve -

for this we cast a transit chart, which describes the actual evolution

of that person's life - change is the key factor here: we are all

young, middle-aged and old - these are natural factors that act upon

the prakriti, and will change its nature over time, as nothing escapes

change - nothing - i don't think i could accept an argument that said

that prakriti was completely static, because this statement simply does

not correspond with reality

 

 

> Also the tanmatra are not dependant upon the jnana indriyas. They

> will exist even in the absence of jnana indriyas.

 

that my friend, is a theoretical argument, which is unprovable in

either respect: if a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there to

hear it, is there a sound?

 

the samkhya system describes the evolution of the buthas from the

tanmatras, but does not explain how exactly the tanmatras arise from

tamas - its just taken as a given

 

but the tanmatras are very curious: gandha (smell), rasa (taste), rupa

(sight), etc. - by the very nature of these terms how can we say that

the tanmatras exist when there is no consciousness to experience them?

 

it is not enough to debate the schematics of the samkhya darshana: a

single thing cannot be understood only by a study of that one thing -

we need to provide context, and throughout the vedic literature there

is much that provides a context for understanding it more fully

 

for example, the concept of dependent origination (pratityasamutpada)

lucidly describes the arising of phenomena: the five senses (jnana

indriyas) along with the mind (manas) forms the six-fold base (ayatana)

- from the samkhya perspective, these are sattvic in nature, pure

subjective awareness

 

according to pratityasamutpada the six-fold base (5 senses + mind)

undergoes contact (sparsha) to give rise to sensory impression

(vedana); if we compare this to the samkhya system, sparsha is rajas

(that which connects subject with object, i.e. the attractive,

energetic force), and vedana is tamas, the object of the six-fold base,

i.e. the tanmatras (smell, taste, sight, touch and hearing) - the six

component, i.e. mind, confuses subject with object (because of avidya -

ignorance), which in turn thus gives rise to 'desire' (tanha),

'attachment' (upadana), and then finally, 'becoming' (bhava), i.e.

physicality

 

thus my assertion, which is also found elsewhere (such as vedanta), is

that consciousness precedes materiality: it appears we all have the

capacity to shape ourselves and our environment, but most of us cannot

because we persist in confusing subject with object, like a moth to a

flame... this is the true secret of magic, shamanism and alchemy, in

which we distill consciousness, energy and matter to understand the

illusion of ahamkara, and become masters of materiality - if shamans

can shape-shift and yogis can be in two places at once, i am quite sure

we could change our prakriti if we need to

Caldecott

www.toddcaldecott.com