Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Dr Bhate with all due respect, you are missing my point i am not criticizing the use of sesame oil per se, but the chemically-treated, heat-processed oils that are cheaply produced and commonly found in many markets, both here and in India - this certainly includes almost any oil found in a clear plastic container why would the creator spend so much energy hiding away these oils in the totally oxygen-free environment of a seed shell - when we take a vegetable oil out of the shell it begins to degrade, some oils more quickly than others depending on the ratio of unsaturated and saturated fat generally speaking, saturated fats have the greatest resistance to heat and light this is followed monosaturates, and then by polyunsaturated fats, which are the most delicate and sensitive fatty acids for e.g. sesame oil is 40% monosaturated and 45% polyunsaturated in comparison, olive oil 71% monosaturated, 13% saturated, and 10% polyunsaturated we can see that sesame oil does not have the same resistance to heat and light as does olive oil, and will tend to go rancid more quickly the most sensitive oils are those with the highest polyunsaturated fat content, such as flax, sunflower, safflower - if those oils are pure and natural they MUST be refrigerated the most stable vegetable oil is coconut oil, which is 92% saturated fat, 6% monounsaturated, and 2% polyunsaturated to ensure maximum shelf life manufacturers strip the essential fatty acids from vegetable oils like sesame and canola, which have roughly the same fatty acid profile it is easy to find such processed oils because they are usually packaged in a clear, plastic containers a natural oil would have a very, very short shelf life if packaged in that way let me be perfectly clear on this next point: these refined oils are totally unlike anything that the world has ever seen, and all ayurvedic recommendations to use oils have absolutely nothing to do with them if fresh, cold-pressed vegetable oils are kept in a sealed, dark-colored container immediately after pressing, away from heat, air and light, many can have a reasonable shelf-life without refrigeration this includes oils rich in saturates and monounsaturates, such as coconut, olive and sesame oil - ghee is 97%+ saturated, and is the most stable "vegetarian" fat (and also a vital source of cholesterol for vegies) once upon a time, people in the West used to get their oils delivered to them every week, fresh from the mill, in little bottles like a milk delivery they had to be used up rather quickly, because they wouldn't last, just like unpasteurized milk now they go to the mega super mart and buy "cooking" oils in 5 liters pails that have an indefinite shelf life my argument is not a low fat diet or an avoidance of oil and fat - it is the avoidance of specific kinds of fats and oils, namely those that are refined and processed - i hope this clears up any misunderstanding On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 08:49 AM, ayurveda wrote: > Food ingredients will remain a topic of debate between east and west > for quite a long time. > > These days if one goes to any doctor, the first advice is to stop > fats, oils and chillies. This precaution is suggested mainly by > doctors and naturopaths. Not by grand parents. Or Maharshis. > > Ayurveda does not prohibit using oils in diet. Rajvaidya Rasiklal > Parikh and Prabhashankar (Porbandar) of Gujarat had written about > oils and fats in their publications. According to several well known > ayurveda experts, Seasame oil (gingelly oil in south India) gives > health benifits and best medicine for several vatic disorders. Hence > whenever someone prescribes reducing oils and fats in diet, patients > should remember following points. > Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Dear Having elaborated your point on oils manufactured, packed and marketed in clear bottles, it is now clear what message you were trying to communicate. The post on gingelly oil had the objective of propogating the qualities of seasame oil mainly, and your reference to same was without bringing out additional info on modern oils. In India, in authors childhood days, whole grain was mostly ground using stone mill, operated by manual labour. For larger families, electric or disel driven floor mills offered grinding the floor. Side by side, oil mill for cold pressing of oil seeds also used to be there and whole town will store oil seeds for the year, pressing and getting fresh oil for short term needs. The oil obtained this way had all essential nutrients preserved, and so tasty and aromatic that its memories water authors mouth even now! Even oil cake (residue after pressing) tasted sweet and was offered to cattle. Cow used to give higher fat content milk after eating this cake. The joy gleamed in her eyes when eating it. The practice of cold pressing exists in remote villages even today, and as this author had remarked, cold pressed fresh oil is available in a village close to Mumbai, economic capital of India. This author eats unpolished rice, having rich aroma and taste, unparalleled by even 'Basmati' rice from New Delhi. So it must be stated that India is yet to westernize itself, despite inroads made by MNCs, in selling refined vegetable oils in clear PET bottles or HDPE containers. MOre worries are that these oils are marketted as 'heart healthy' oils. Attempts to sell ready to knead floor also did not succeede. Our culture is resistant to changes. Your remarks on suspicion about insulin in cow milk creating diabetes was not understood. Can you clarify please. In particulr, this author wishes to seek some explaination on following case: A friend of this author, around 58, diabetes running in family. His father had diabetis mellitus, discovered at age 65, and did not take any medication even though sedantary occupation. Father died at 86. This gentleman also has sedantary occupation but does yoga and meditation daily. Was on mothers milk for two and half years. Next 11 years was drinking indian cow milk 2 glasses (200 ml each) daily morning and 1 glass at bedtime. Now at 58, goes trekking every year, has normal glucose readings all the time, very energetic, works at his desk 16 hors a day without yawn. Skin glow like a 20 year old, has a sweet tooth, likes sweet and eats daily. What is interesting, he eats sweet before Post prandial glucose check, and test shows normal glucose. Where all the glucose goes? Has very enviable lipid profile, statistics runs 32-27-32, BMI close to 23 for last thirty years. Takes two steps at a time when taking staircases and we should say runs on the staircase rather than climbs. But normally uses lift. He was also told about the oils and fats, but takes seasame oil in breakfast. Pure vegetarian and eats anything which comes along. Does not bother whether south indian, north indian or western. What surprises this author, without much exercise, his health so excellent. His pulse is used as a reference for health, by this author. Regards Dr Bhate ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <todd@t...> wrote: > > Dr Bhate > > with all due respect, you are missing my point > > i am not criticizing the use of sesame oil per se, but the > chemically-treated, heat-processed oils that are cheaply produced and > commonly found in many markets, both here and in India - this certainly > includes almost any oil found in a clear plastic container > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I think you have hit on an important point. We Ayurvedic practitioners are often not too sure what to advise patients regarding ghee and oil. So I would be glad to get feedback from the forum on these points. 1) Is oil only bad when used for deep frying? Does the health problem worsen when the frying is combined with savoury and sugary foods? If you must deep fry, then what is the safest oil to use? 2) Do we advise which oil to use in cooking only according to the patient's dosha or are there any other considerations, besides the obvious health problems like hypercholesterolemia etc? 3) There have been many reports here in Europe regarding the benefits of Olive oil. What is the Ayurvedic take on this? 4) We know the benefits of ghee as a medicine and for anti-Vata therapy, but is ghee safe to use in regular cooking. From what I know it has the good HDL'S. If a patient has high cholesterol some say that adding guggul is of extra benefit. I look forward to your comments on this. 5) I think your point on the storage of oil in a dark brown bottle and the use of cold pressed oil is a crucial factor. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 > The practice of cold pressing exists in remote villages even today, > and as this author had remarked, cold pressed fresh oil is available > in a village close to Mumbai, economic capital of India. This author > eats unpolished rice, having rich aroma and taste, unparalleled by > even 'Basmati' rice from New Delhi. So it must be stated that India > is yet to westernize itself, despite inroads made by MNCs, in selling > refined vegetable oils in clear PET bottles or HDPE containers. MOre > worries are that these oils are marketted as 'heart healthy' oils. > Attempts to sell ready to knead floor also did not succeede. Our > culture is resistant to changes. yes Indian culture is resistant it and i am happy for that however, i lived in India in Coimbatore, Chennai and spent quite a bit of time up north as well and i can tell you from personal experience that such oils are easily obtainable at the marketplace, and frequently purchased by those also buying various groceries the more negative western influences (as opposed to the more beneficial ones) are particularly insidious i am quite sure that in the 7 years since i've been away that i would unfortunately see even more signs of these influences, e.g. soda pop, fast food outlets, cell phones etc. etc. of course its probably different in rural areas where people are too poor to afford the "luxury" of buying prepackaged products like refined oils hopefully now that you are armed with this knowledge you can counsel your patients to know the difference between processed and unprocessed oils Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 It is facinating to hear opinion and talk on the various grades and varieties of oils that we use in Ayurveda. I think that Ghee deserves a special mention here. Can we not do away with many oils that may be of questionable manufacture, and use Ghee instead? In the USA, I purchase Ghee from Purity Farms (www.purityfarms.com)- a place where they treat their cattle appropriately and with love. Can anyone please give their opinion on the use of Ghee in the diet as a tri-doshic food? Namaste, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 On Thursday, January 13, 2005, at 09:06 AM, ayurveda wrote: > > > I think you have hit on an important point. We Ayurvedic practitioners > are often not too sure what to advise patients regarding ghee and oil. > So I would be glad to get feedback from the forum on these points. > > 1) Is oil only bad when used for deep frying? Does the health problem > worsen when the frying is combined with savoury and sugary foods? If > you must deep fry, then what is the safest oil to use? i really can't see why somebody MUST deep fry their food - if you think about it, it should be a major luxury expressing oils traditionally took a lot of time energy (and still does - its only hidden from us nowadays): eating deep-fried foods all the time would be like eating like a king or queen on a wedding day, every day there are serious repercussions to such affluence for example, if you look at the nidana (etiology) of many different diseases described in Ayurveda, deep-fried foods, which are hard to digest, are widely described as disease-causing, e.g. prameha (polyuria/diabetes), traditionally a disease of wealth and luxury but anyway, the safest oils to deep-fry with are those that are most stable, and ghee would be an example of this i don't recommend saving the deep-frying oil to be used the next time - get rid of it, and never use any oil that smokes as you can see, do this only if you have money to burn, because ghee is very expensive > > 2) Do we advise which oil to use in cooking only according to the > patient's dosha or are there any other considerations, besides the > obvious health problems like hypercholesterolemia etc? the cooking choices are limited to heat stability choose saturated and monounsaturated fats: e.g. ghee, butter, coconut, olive, sesame, almond etc. > > 3) There have been many reports here in Europe regarding the benefits > of Olive oil. What is the Ayurvedic take on this? olive oil is entirely unknown in Ayurveda - some vaidyas use it as a massage oil, but its not widely used in India when i lived there, i have a hard time finding it, and what i did find was of suspect quality but since my thesis is that we need to draw upon our rich human heritage, trust the people that have been using it the longest, i.e. greeks, italians, spaniards etc. - ayurveda is also "grandma" medicine, and isn't limited to things that are strictly "Indian" > > 4) We know the benefits of ghee as a medicine and for anti-Vata > therapy, but is ghee safe to use in regular cooking. From what I know > it has the good HDL'S. If a patient has high cholesterol some say that > adding guggul is of extra benefit. I look forward to your comments on > this. an oils best properties will be consumed with minimal processing, including heat i think it would be better to add ghee to the food after cooking, than using a lot of oils during cooking hey wait, that exactly how its done in India! would like another spoonful of ghee with that? btw, HDL is a "high density lipoprotein," the mechanism by which hydrophobic ('water-hating') fats are transported in the watery solution of the blood certain fats induce the creation of HDL or LDL - i'm afraid the jury is still out on what ghee does to HDL in any conclusive way, but its certainly better than transfatty acids as for your question re: cholesterol and guggul, it supposes that high serum cholesterol is necessarily a problem the "normal" cholesterol ranges set by medical authorities are totally arbitrary - the evidence doesn't support them there are better indicators of CVD, like truncal-abdominal obesity - even TG (triglycerides) are a better indication, because the parallel insulin secretion, which is a factor in causing damage to the arterial wall nonetheless, guggul is a fabulous herb, but i think you should use based on your ayurvedic knowledge, not the science - what are its indications? the science only informs, ayurveda guides > > 5) I think your point on the storage of oil in a dark brown bottle and > the use of cold pressed oil is a crucial factor. absolutely - fresh-pressed oils would have been stored in well-sealed crockery, not plastic, which leaches out toxic, fat soluble compounds into the oil... Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Hi Jagannath i know many people in India like their fish fried in mustard oil, and esp. when its cut with a little toxic argemone oil to yield an even spicier flavor (did anyone come across the news story of people dying because of too much argemone? http://www.gene.ch/gentech/1998/Sep-Nov/msg00018.html from a nutritional perspective, mustard has a similar fatty acid profile to canola (or rape seed), and probably should not be heated the recent recommendations to cook with it are myopic and based on the premise that all polyunsaturated fats are healthy > It is now being publicised that mustard oil is the best cooking > medium. Earlier this oil, used for centuries in most parts of India, > was blamed for our many ills. > > I have a personal observation here. Due to modern medicine and its > effects we now have to deal with new forms of illness specially drug > induced ones. Earlier we did not have so many allergy induced > diseases. Nowadays allergic reactions to various foods have become a > part of our life. This is the reason why even beneficial foods are > having an adverse effect on people. Disease is no longer disease as it > was known earlier thanks to allopathic drugs (and practices) as well > as the use of chemicals at every step of our lives. Add to it > enviromental pollution and our cup of owe is complete. > Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." -Richard P. Feynman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Dear Dr. Bhate > Your remarks on suspicion about insulin in cow milk creating diabetes was not understood. Can you clarify please. The relation of infantile diabetes with cow milk is also related to immune reactions that destroy the Langerham islets, which are responsible to produce the insulin. The immune system seems to be triggered by chains of amino acids that were not properly digested (ama) in pure amino acids useful to the body. It happens, that some of these undigested amino acid chains have similar molecular structures as found in the Islets, and consequently the immune system, will accidentally destroy the Islets. If the diet is persistent with the same type of cow milk or with the form of preparation, the immune reaction will increase with a powerful army, leading to the infantile diabetes, which could also be triggered in adults as well. Although the indigestion of such amino acid chain could be related to hereditarily factor, believe that the main problem is related to the digestion. A possible preventive suggestion would be: to warm the milk; to include agni increasing species like cardamom, cinnamon, etc; moderate the quantity, and not to drink milk at night. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.