re: my two cents...

[Guest guest]

> Here we go again - unsubstantiated assertions. No one in my family or

> of my ordinary acquaintance eats meat or sea vegetables and never has.

> they do not have even the slightest hint of B 12 defeciency.

 

B12 deficiencies are hard to detect until its too late, and the

neuropathy sets in

please review your nutritional pathology

 

>

> I am 64 and live a blessed life (health wise) and have never taken any

> meat or sea vegetables and I will gladly compare my B 12 levels to

> yours.

 

why not get yours tested and then report to the list

 

> By the way B 12 defeciency is also common among flesh eaters.

 

do you have evidence of this?

 

no?

 

ok, here's a study you can play with Vinod

 

1: Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2003 Jul 5;147(27):1308-13.

 

[Nutrition and health--potential health benefits and risks of

vegetarianism and limited consumption of meat in the Netherlands]

 

[Article in Dutch]

 

Dagnelie PC.

 

Universiteit Maastricht, capaciteitsgroep Epidemiologie, Postbus 616,

6200 MD Maastricht. dagnelie

 

In the latest Dutch national food consumption survey (1998) just over

1% of subjects (about 150,000 persons) claimed to be vegetarians;

however, a much larger group (6% or approximately 1 million persons)

ate meat < or = once a week. Vegetarianism can be subdivided into

lacto-vegetarianism (a diet without meat and fish) and veganism (a diet

without any animal foods whatsoever, including dairy products and

eggs). A recent meta-analysis showed that vegetarians had a lower

mortality from ischaemic heart disease than omniovorous subjects;

however, cancer mortality and total mortality did not differ. Although

a high consumption of red meat, which is rich in haeme iron and

saturated fat, may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease and some

types of cancer, this does not apply to white meat and fish. In fact,

the most important protective effect would seem to be derived from the

consumption of unrefined vegetable products (whole-grain cereals,

vegetables, fruits, nuts and legumes) and fish. In other words, a

prudent, omnivorous diet with moderate amounts of animal products, in

which red meat is partly replaced by white meat and fish (especially

fatty fish), together with the consumption of ample amounts of

unrefined vegetable products, is thought to be just as protective as a

vegetarian diet. On the other hand, the omission of meat and fish from

the diet increases the risk of nutritional deficiencies. A vegan diet,

in particular, leads to a strongly increased risk of deficiencies of

vitamin B12, vitamin B2 and several minerals, such as calcium, iron and

zinc. However, even a lacto-vegetarian diet produces an increased risk

of deficiencies of vitamin B12 and possibly certain minerals, such as

iron. Data from the latest Dutch food consumption survey suggest that

5-10% of all inhabitants of the Netherlands (up to 1 million persons)

actually have a vitamin B12 intake below recommended daily levels. In

medical practice, the possibility of vitamin B12 deficiency in subjects

consuming meat or fish < or = once a week deserves serious

consideration. In case of doubt, evaluation is indicated using

sensitive and specific deficiency markers such as the levels of

methylmalonic acid in plasma or urine. Alternative dietary sources of

vitamin B12 instead of meat are fish (especially fatty fish is a good

source of vitamin B12), or a vitamin-B12-supplement.

 

Publication Types: Review Review, Tutorial

 

PMID: 12868158 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

>

> Improve the health of your digestive processes and the small intestine

> - and therefore proper functioning of 'intrinsic factor' - this will

> produce all of the B 12 you can use. B vitamin synthasis in the

> intestines is in no way dependent on whether you eat meat or not.

>

> Why do certain people ignore all facts to 'prove' their points.

 

VINOD!!!! you haven't yet put forward a single SHRED of evidence!

where are YOUR facts? or are you somebody special who doesn't need to

because they are so convinced of their own authority?

 

>

> Meat eaters for some reason think they are haealthier than others.

> Read the statistics in America for the epedimic of degenerative

> diseases processes. Meateaters are among the most unhealthy people in

> the world why do they keep pointing their fingers at vegetarians. What

> in the world do these people think they are 'proving'. For me the only

> proof I see is of a narrow unsubstantated prejudice.

 

I have love, and risk factors don't relate to meat consumption per se,

but refined foods generally

review the research of Burkitt and Trowell

 

Caldecott

phyto

http://www.wrc.net/phyto

[Guest guest]

>> Meat eaters for some reason think they are haealthier than others.

>> Read the statistics in America for the epedimic of degenerative

>> diseases processes. Meateaters are among the most unhealthy people in

>> the world why do they keep pointing their fingers at vegetarians.

>> What in the world do these people think they are 'proving'. For me

>> the only proof I see is of a narrow unsubstantated prejudice.

>

> I have love, and risk factors don't relate to meat consumption per se,

> but refined foods generally review the research of Burkitt and Trowell

 

whoops, i meant to say "i have looked..."

of course i also have a whole lotta love :-)

 

Caldecott

phyto

http://www.wrc.net/phyto