re: animal fats aren't the issue

[Guest guest]

> There can be no doubt that animal fat is not harmful to humans.

>

> Saints and Sadhus take milk and ghee. Ghee is a foundation medicine

> in Ayurveda. Ask any mother about the usefulness of ghee.

>

> The issue that Todd is refering to is relevant but I think many of

> the modern western researchers have not actually solved this problem

> yet - although they may be coming closer to the truth of the issue.

>

> Insulin resistance is at the core of many contempary health problems.

 

agreed

 

> But the eating of meat is not the ultimate answer. The only real way

> to break insulin resistance is to stop eating EXCESS of rapidly

> digesting carbohydrates. What is ultimately needed is to reduce the

> stress of too many unneeded carbs and to stabalize the symapthetic

> nervous system.

 

and one way to stop eating an excess of carbs is replace what are

essentially empty-nutrient, high calorie foods with nutrient-rich foods

such as fat and meat

 

> Meat is not necessary for this.

 

in somebody that has established insulin resistance this is a difficult

task

i used to recommend a whole grain, vegetarian diet for weight loss

(i.e. insulin resistance), but it never worked

furthermore, some foods that you may advocate as a replacement to

"rapidly digesting carbohydrates" are whole grains

 

please review the following glycemic indexes of such "healthier" carbs"

 

Barley, pearled 25

Rye 34

Wheat kernels 41

Rice, instant, boiled 1 min 46

Bulgur 48

Rice, parboiled 48

Barley, cracked 50

Wheat, quick cooking 54

Buckwheat 55

Sweet corn 55

Rice, brown 55

Rice, wild, Saskatchewan 57

Rice, white 58

Couscous 65

Barley, rolled 66

Rice, Mahatma Premium 66

Taco shells 68

Cornmeal 69

Millet 71

Rice, Sunbrown Quick 80

Tapioca, boiled with milk 81

Rice, Calrose 87

Rice, instant, boiled 6 min 90

 

just look how high brown rice is! only slightly lower than white

(basmati) rice

i routinely get folks to reduce the total glycemic load below 45 for

best results in insulin resistance

also note how low barley is, which is why it is the #1 grain used in

prameha

 

since utilizing a lower carb diet I get consistently positively

results, without patients having to spend 1-2 hrs a day exercising (the

ONLY way in many people to keep the weight off in an otherwise high

carb diet)

 

 

> We can stabalize

> sugar, fat, and protein metabolism without further burdening the

> system with even more undigested and undigestable food.

 

are you suggesting that meat is undigestible?

where is your evidence of this?

granted, raw meat is probably easier to digest than cooked, but the

risk of parasitic infection is untenable

 

further, if you review basic human physiology you will note that the

stomach is designed ONLY for the digestion of proteins

in all healing traditions the stomach is the hearth of the body,

regulating further aspects of digestion in the SI and colon by the

secretion of gastric hormones

in Ayurveda, the stomach is the amasaya, the site of pachaka pitta

contrary to your statements, one sure fire why to kick up the activity

of agni is to eat meat (not in combination with starches)

the resultant inducement of acid secretion upregulates digestive

function, and increases agni

 

> This is a

> disease of excess - and that excess has exceeded the ability of the

> body to cope. No person eating a traditional diet - that contains

> little or no sugar or white flour or white rice or over heated oils

> has insulin resistance.

>

> I always feel that when anyone is overfed - the best answer to this

> is to eat less food at least less of the foods which are creating the

> problem.

>

> One simple approach to stabalising sugar metabolism is to not eat

> rapidly digesting starches and sugars - and to eat several small

> easily digested meals a day.

 

I disagree

this simply promotes a state of chronic hyperglycemia and induces

insulin secretion

no traditional peoples ever ate all day long - this is an artifact of

modern convenience, not a reflection of our evolution

surely we have better things to do than eat all day long

 

i also have many obese patients that cannot lose weigh on such a

regimen: most people aren't aware of how many calories they are

actually consume by eating small, frequent meals

often the total # of calories exceeds eating three squares

 

> Kitcheree with ghee is very stabalising -

> especially if it is eaten warm with ghee at least 5 times a day.

 

have you ever measured a patient's blood glucose on such as regimen?

i have colleagues that have, with results that contrast with your

statements

any benefit here is in large part related to the ghee, which delays

gastric emptying and lowers the glycemic index

in otherwords, the same results could be obtained by simply taking ghee

(eating fat upwards of 50% of total caloric intake is what has been

found to be successful in diabetics on dialysis)

 

> Make sure that you digest your food - and if not eat less and more

> frequently - this keeps blood sugar steady. Avoid fruit until you get

> your sugar under control.

>

> Dr. Angotston (sic?) of South Beach Diet fame has a protocal for

> breaking insulin resistance in two weeks this is easy to do for

> vegetarian's although the concept is developed for meateaters.

 

i will agree with you that this is the most sensible approach for

breaking insulin resistance in a confirmed vegetarian

of course, along with muscle-building exercise

but given the limitations in this type diet (speaking as someone that

has tried to eat kicharee and only kicharee for weeks on end), and the

rebound hypoglycemia that occurs by eating a high carb diet, how many

won't revert back to their old ways and sneak off for some sweets to

mediate their sugar lows?

i am looking and encourage others to find long term sustainable changes

 

apart from the issue that kicharee is a langhana food, not appropriate

for long term sustenance

it contains chelating compounds called phytates that inhibit mineral

absorption, and lectins that damage the gut wall

the incidence of impaired mineral absorption is higher in peoples of SE

Asian descent, in those that follow traditional eating patterns

if req'd i will forward the citation to the list for consideration

 

btw, i can eat a couple of organic eggs for breakfast stuffed with

lightly stir-fried green chard and garlic, i can go without eating ALL

day, until suppertime, with TONS of energy (teaching, patients, writing

etc.), but when I have a bowl of organic oatmeal with a little frozen

blueberries, i am starving by 11:30 am.

Caldecott

www.wrc.net/phyto

phyto

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I will keep answering these comments just in case someone thinks's postings have any validity.

 

The glycemic index is meaningless and has been proven so many times.

 

If one eats a piece of fruit it will have a certain glycemic index.

Glycemic index in the sense we are talking about means the rate at

which foods (sugars and starches)get digested. If I combine fruit

with almonds or milk the glycemic index changes radically.

 

Whole grains with mung and ghee is very slowly digesting and Does not

raise blood sugar at all in healthy and moderately insulin resistant

people people. For those with severe problems it may be necessary to

cut out grains (for a time).

s implication that vegetarians can not be healthy and can not

recover proper hormonal function without meat is plain and simple

poor observation what to say of poor science. Todd appears to have a

prejudice about a lot of things in this world - Indians -Hindus -

vegetarians etc. It seems ironic that such a prejudicial person would

refer to tamasic in another.

how can you ignore the fact that millions of people in the world

eat grains and do not have Insulin resistance. Insulin resistance

occurs commenly in societies that eat sugar and white flour in large

quantities. these are the richer societies. Insulin resistance is

rare in traditional peoples.

 

the key to Insulin resistance is to help the body to eliminate the

excess of Insulin and to release Insulin from the receptor sites.

Meat is only one and a not very effecient way - taking into account

the danger of ketosis)

 

This you must eat more and more meat to help you recover your health

idea is very popular and the wrongheadedness of the approcah is

beginning to show up in studies. One new study based on the Atkins

diet reveals the potenial problems of excess protein.

 

Please do not advocate meateating for people with poor digestion and

or poor kidney or liver function (the majority) as they may end up

with kidney stones and many other problems such as heart and liver

distress.

 

Clinical practice reveals that anyone can break Insulin Resistance

with an intelligent scientific approach with no referance at all to

meat.