Guest guest Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 some thoughts on eating meat... the last time i bought beef was from a friend who raised it on the farm the animal (named "Cashew") had lots of pasture to roam, fresh green grass and hay and every day when the farmers came home Cashew would run over for some love and attention i am told he especially liked his ears scratched... while it may seem perverse to some to consider such an animal as food, i contend that this a lot saner way of raising and eating meat than what it is done in industrial farming in the latter case, a huge number of animals are lined up for slaughter, and can not only hear the wails of their bretheren, but can literally smell the spilt blood this causes them to release toxic neurotransmitters such as epinepherine throughout their bodies, something which i believe is in large measure responsible for the negative vibrations associated with meat eating - the animals are in a heightened state of fear before they die this is no way to raise meat in almost every culture, due respect was given to the animal that sacrificed itself for food, and done consciously, i believe, pacifies negative vibrations to the greatest extent they can be pacified it is clear from what the acharyas tell us that killing creates karma but then, so do all volitional acts the aim of Indian spirituality, nirvana (nir - to cease, vana - to move), is the destruction of all intentional acts, and the cessation of karma the idea that one act is worse than another is a matter of culture and morality, which cannot be equated with spirituality per se it is clear in the Hindu (Buddhist) literature for eg. that even murderers and thieves gained enlightenment upon hearing Lord Buddha's words, once they understood the nature of their own volitional acts and the nature of suffering thinking that one is more devout and more spiritual because one is vegetarian is simply another illusion, that any many respects, serves as hinderance to deeper self-awareness: it creates factionalism, separation, and sorrow On Wednesday, April 7, 2004, at 07:19 AM, ayurveda wrote: > Message: 3 > Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:09:02 +0530 > Vinod Haritwal <nikmo > Re: Diet Considerations for Health > > As I have understood, food is live substance. The vibrations around > meats are negative because of the fear, pain and suffering of the > creature sacrificed for eating. Since animals are more evolved than > vegetables, the negative vibrations in meat are stronger than in > vegetables. These vibrations do affect one's inner peace i.e > meditative state. One may overcome the vibrations but its avoidable. > May be the non Hindus did not lay much stress on this aspect and did > not specifically try it or study it. Caldecott phyto http://www.wrc.net/phyto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <phyto@w...> wrote: > some thoughts on eating meat... > > the last time i bought beef was from a friend who raised it on the farm > the animal (named "Cashew") had lots of pasture to roam, fresh green > grass and hay > and every day when the farmers came home Cashew would run over for some > love and attention > i am told he especially liked his ears scratched... Namaste Todd! After reading about Cashew's antics, I would rather eat industrially farmed meat:-(. It is said that the person who eats meat is the real sinner rather than the person who kills the animal (after all if no-one ate meat, animals would not be killed). > > thinking that one is more devout and more spiritual because one is > vegetarian is simply another illusion, that any many respects, serves > as hinderance to deeper self-awareness: it creates factionalism, > separation, and sorrow > While it is true that in general there may be some vegetarians who are wrathful and angry; and some meat-eaters who are deeply spiritual, these are not the norm, in a general sense it can be said that meat lowers consciousness (I think Ayurveda advocates eating meat only for medical reasons, correct me if I am wrong). -yogaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Excellent post, Todd. Anita ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <phyto@w...> wrote: > some thoughts on eating meat... > > the last time i bought beef was from a friend who raised it on the farm the animal (named "Cashew") had lots of pasture to roam, fresh green grass and hay and every day when the farmers came home Cashew would run over for some love and attention i am told he especially liked his ears scratched... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 > > It is said that the person who eats meat is the real sinner rather > than the person who kills the animal (after all if no-one ate meat, > animals would not be killed). who says this? is this found in any text on Ayurveda? without a citation, "it is said" is not a defense lots of things are "said" but rumor and speculation cannot be equated with historical or empirical truth and in many cases, such appeals to a vague authority are simply an excuse for an uninformed opinion btw, i am well aware aware that i am rankling the ire of vegetarians on this list, and to some extent that is exactly my purpose to challenge assumptions that i believe choke the true wisdom of Ayurveda but i am also sincerely concerned for everybody's health, which is why i am putting this information out there > > > thinking that one is more devout and more spiritual because one is > > vegetarian is simply another illusion, that any many respects, > serves > > as hinderance to deeper self-awareness: it creates factionalism, > > separation, and sorrow > > > > While it is true that in general there may be some vegetarians who > are wrathful and angry; and some meat-eaters who are deeply > spiritual, these are not the norm, in a general sense it can be said > that meat lowers consciousness (I think Ayurveda advocates eating > meat only for medical reasons, correct me if I am wrong). what is the norm? when undertaking any investigation you must be aware of many factors that promote a particular result, especially one so subjectively determined as one's "level of consciousness." the kind of 'single-cause' theory you suggest by supposing that eating meat dull's one's consciousness is the same illogical, grandiose thinking that underlies much of the silliness in modern medical research, i.e. you look for a result to support your theory furthermore, i have to say that happiness is not the preserve of eating such and such a food such materialist notions contradict the nature of Indian spirituality thinking so is actually quite tamasic but to address your supposition, the happiest people in the world (by all reports I've seen), are pre-industrialized paleolithic peoples, such as the Amazonian Indians, or other tribal peoples that live out their lives in balance with nature, unaffected by the supposedly "advanced" notions of modern culture and none of these peoples are vegetarian the longest-lived people in the world, in Hunza, Tibet, China, Japan and Switzerland - none are vegetarian here in Alberta, which is cattle-country, we have one the highest life-expectancies of anywhere in Canada (78.5 yrs) in the only country that has a dominant culture that advocates vegetarianism, i.e. India, the life expectancy is less than 50, even once you factor out infant mortality by the same logic you apply, I could say that the greatest social experiment on vegetarianism has been an absolute disaster, as far as longevity is concerned and I would ask you: are the Indian people happy? most would say they are miserable, and have a miserable lot these are of course unfair comparisons, but I am only trying to illustrate the fallacy of your thinking and yes, with all due respect, you are wrong: Ayurveda does advocates meat as part of the diet review any authentic Ayurvedic text: Charaka samhita, Ashtanga Hrdaya, Bhavaprakasha, etc., and please tell me I am wrong Caldecott www.wrc.net/phyto phyto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Todd - Todd - Todd Now you are revealing yourself as a racist and cultural suprmecist. Those comments about the miserable lot of India and the Indians show no understanding of India at all. My family and all of my friends and all of my associates would laugh at your rediculous assertion about Indians and their horrible lot. In general I would say that the average middle class Indian person is definately healthier than the average middle class American or European. India has millions of unhealthy people like all countries. But this lack of good health has NOTHING to do with vegetarinism. Many millions of those unhealthy Indians are not even vegetarians. Go into the poorer Christian and Muslim meateating communities and you will find bad health everywhere. Most people in the world (the whole world) eat poorly and suffer the results of that. Meateaters and vegetarians will lose their health if they eat poorly. I find many people who follow this modern meat is king path make irrational, unsubstantiated, and poorly thought out statements. there are many perfectly healthy people here at this site who are vegetarians - what do you think those people think when they see you constanly trying to convince them they are not healthy. For me it is fanatic and unscientific. Westin Price made many serious mistakes and to try to build an argument relating to paleolithic ancestors is nonsense. Many Gurus have dealt with this prejudicial (meaning unsupported by facts) viewpoint long ago. Please do not insult our culture and race with this childishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 hi ther, i completely agree wid vinod here....i accept tht india has numerous malnourished ppl like any other developing country....but this has nthg to do wid a veg or non veg diet....itz jus a matter of lack of resources n in most of the cases, lack of knwledge abt the rite kinda diet...! n frm wat i read in my books.....the developed countries have an equal number diseases wich r mostly related wid over-nourishment...n this i owe completely to the lifestyle n the improper diet irrespective of the nonveg n veg part of it...! regards, neha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 > > > > It is said that the person who eats meat is the real sinner rather > > than the person who kills the animal (after all if no-one ate meat, > > animals would not be killed). > > who says this? is this found in any text on Ayurveda? > without a citation, "it is said" is not a defense > lots of things are "said" Namaste Sri Todd! The reference is in the Tirumantiram (the oldest yoga and tantra manual circa) and the Mahabharata (one of the most revered scriptures)- not exactly ayurveda texts. I have not exactly undertaken a double-blind experiment to verify this- this was just my observation, I have eaten meat a few times- the effect of consuming meat at least for me rajasic-tamasic. If you are a meditator you will notice the effect immediately. > what is the norm? when undertaking any investigation you must be aware > of many factors that promote a particular result, especially one so > subjectively determined as one's "level of consciousness." the kind of > 'single-cause' theory you suggest by supposing that eating meat dull's > one's consciousness is the same illogical, grandiose thinking that > underlies much of the silliness in modern medical research, i.e. you > look for a result to support your theory > > furthermore, i have to say that happiness is not the preserve of eating > such and such a food > such materialist notions contradict the nature of Indian spirituality > thinking so is actually quite tamasic > > but to address your supposition, the happiest people in the world (by > all reports I've seen), are pre-industrialized paleolithic peoples, > such as the Amazonian Indians, or other tribal peoples that live out > their lives in balance with nature, unaffected by the supposedly > "advanced" notions of modern culture > > and none of these peoples are vegetarian > > the longest-lived people in the world, in Hunza, Tibet, China, Japan > and Switzerland - none are vegetarian > here in Alberta, which is cattle-country, we have one the highest > life-expectancies of anywhere in Canada (78.5 yrs) > > in the only country that has a dominant culture that advocates > vegetarianism, i.e. India, the life expectancy is less than 50, even > once you factor out infant mortality > > by the same logic you apply, I could say that the greatest social > experiment on vegetarianism has been an absolute disaster, as far as > longevity is concerned > and I would ask you: are the Indian people happy? > most would say they are miserable, and have a miserable lot > these are of course unfair comparisons, but I am only trying to > illustrate the fallacy of your thinking Your point is noted and your objectivity is appreciated. My statement on meat eating was a mere value judgement but yet verified by numerous outstanding yogis and saints. And thank you for clarification on meat-eating in Ayurveda. I would like to read up more on that and get back to you. -yogaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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