Ayurved Online Message Digest Number 235

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Todd

> Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. Your concerns about the liver

> cleanse appear valid. However, I am going to assume you have not read

> in

> detail the precise instructions for the cleanse as described in The

> Amazing Liver Cleanse book by Andreas Moritz. And I assume you have not

> actually done a liver cleanse yourself as prescribed by Andreas Moritz.

 

No I haven't.

 

> There is a similar liver cleanse promoted by Hulda Clark, however she

> does not use the modifications that Andreas employs. Personally, I feel

> the cleanse she is promoting is very unsound and potentially dangerous.

> I have seen one case where the person following her cleanse wound up in

> the hospital for bile regurgitation.

 

bile or pancreatic reflux? bile reflux is actually fairly common and

is not life threatening (although unpleasant). Most folks have

experienced bile reflux with vomiting, i.e. the bitter taste, the

yellowish-green vomitus etc. Chronic episodic bile reflux indicates

some kind of intestinal obstruction, i.e. stenosis, inflammation,

impaction etc.

 

> Andreas on the other hand, with his experience of prescribing his

> cleanse to thousands of clients, has not had any problems except for

> those who have failed to employ the pre-cleanse and post-cleanse

> protocols.

 

"Thousands" sounds like a great number but is actually meaningless to

me. What is Andreas' training? What kind of procedures does he employ

to diagnose gall stones and track successes/failures/hospitalizations

among those that have used his technique?

 

> He makes his warning about this very clear in his book.

> I admit the liver cleanse as prescribed by Andreas needs documented

> case

> study analysis before it is seen as valid before the eyes of

> alternative

> and conventional medicine. Regarding the stones are olive oil issue,

> that needs further analysis too, however here is one documented case

> where lab analysis stated otherwise

> http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=4&i=1152

 

I am not saying categorically that gall stones cannot be removed with a

flush - If I believed this was the case then I would have no concerns

for the procedure, and stones becoming lodged in the bile duct. I am

simply responding to what you posted, which was opinion and what I

perceive to be a collection of mis-facts on hepatic function. Btw, I

think that above "documented case" is anecdotal until assessed by a

medical professional, or written up in a peer-reviewed journal. If Mr.

Andreas is having such wonderful success then he or one of his

supporters should find it easy to write a paper on the subject and

submit it to a journal, presenting several case histories complete with

a medical diagnosis and analysis of stones. We have often heard of

folks having "success" with this method of cleansing, but none of them

have yet actually saved the stones for analysis, and we think that more

often than not these stones are actually partially emulsified olive oil.

 

The reason why I'm being so hard on this method is because it has no

traditional basis in any culture. In contrast, herbal medicines like

those used in Ayurveda have been used for thousands of years and have a

strong basis in empiricism.

 

> What Andreas has found from experience, is that when people remove all

> their stones from a series of cleanses, not just one, their disease

> symptoms from numerous health issues disappear. I feel Andreas has

> modified an old technique that has tremendous value and needs to be

> looked at closely by the health community. To merely pass if off as

> "indefensible nonsense" is incomplete. I feel ayurvedic medicine is

> open

> to creative adaptation in order to meet the needs of modern culture.

> Andreas told me personally that traditional panchakarma treatments did

> not help his gallbladder issue at all.

 

i think the technique is potentially dangerous (i.e. not for public

consumption w/o training or supervision), and his grasp of liver

physiology, from what was posted, is "indefensible nonsense." I don't

mean to critique his entire method - only what was posted.

 

> Your herbal protocols look sound for calcified stones, but from my

> research, there are no herbs for addressing uncalcified bile stones and

> cholesterol stones that clog the liver and gallbladder.

 

These should be easier to move exactly b/c they are not calcified, the

spectrum being from hepatobiliary insufficiency to sludge, to

uncalcified stones, to calcified stones. But there are also other

kinds of stones that have a different etiology. Here is a review of

gall bladder pathology, from the course I teach on pathology here at

Wild Rose College:

 

"Cholelithiasis refers to the formation or presence of calculi

(gallstones) in the gallbladder, and account for most clinical

disorders of the extrahepatic biliary tract. Factors that increase the

probability of (cholesterol) gallstones include female sex, obesity,

increased age, North American Indian ethnicity, a Western diet, and a

positive family history.

 

Most gall stones (75%) consist of cholesterol, the remainder consisting

of calcium bilirubinate or other calcium salts. The pathogenesis of

cholesterol stones relates to the supersaturation of bile, which

precipitates in the gall bladder as solid cholesterol crystals. This

appears to be related to a deficiency of 7-hydroxylase, an enzyme that

that is involved in the production of bile salts from cholesterol. From

a herbal perspective, this enzyme deficiency occurs in poor liver

function, i.e. 'hepatic torpor,' caused by dietary factors, xenobiotic

insult, excess liver burden, and a lack of bitter foods (which

stimulate bile excretion and synthesis). The formation of pigment

stones appears to be unrelated to the risk factors that predispose the

formation of cholesterol stones, and is related specifically to

unconjugated bilirubin in the bile.

 

The signs and symptoms of stone formation in the gallbladder are

variable, with most patients remaining asymptomatic for long periods,

frequently for life. Stones may travel through the cystic duct with or

without symptoms of obstruction. Transient cystic duct obstruction

results in cholecystalgia, sometimes with nausea and vomiting.

Persistent obstruction usually produces inflammation, acute

cholecystitis and in some cases acute pancreatitis. The pain associated

with cholelithiasis most often occurs in the epigastrium or right upper

quadrant, radiating to the right lower scapula.

 

Perforation is a complication of acute cholecystitis, often occurring

from secondary bacterial infection. Bile is discharged into the

peritoneum, often localized by inflammatory adhesions."

Caldecott

phyto

http://www.wrc.net/phyto