Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 On 24-Aug-05, at 4:33 AM, ayurveda wrote: > mentioned as all of us we know , but there are certain parallelism of > group of symptoms & signs which are closely resembling to this > condition.But well it was basically known to be used in conditions > connected to Mind , after it was been established by Modern Medicine > for lowering the B.P. we Ayurvedic Physicians started using it in our > practice, but of course in a row form.After few years latter it was > then found that the synthetic isomer of Reserpine was found out to be > more dangerous than the crude one ! but wait a sec - hypertension has few if any symptoms until it has caused damage to the internal organs - if its the ONLY sign in an otherwise apparently healthy patient, how can it be inferred or diagnosed using the ashtasthana pariksha or from an analysis of case history from an Ayurvedic perspective? remember, we are talking about ESSENTIAL hypertension, which is different from hypertension caused by other factors that are more overt and can be easily recognized, e.g. hyperthyroidism - in the latter case we would see factors such as fever, sweating, heat intolerance, burning sensations, diarrhea etc.etc, all indicating an essentially paittika disorder - but can somebody take an apparently healthy and active 52 year old with a little weight around the middle and from pulse diagnosis etc diagnose them as "manas vata"?? - I think not the reality of course is that Ayurvedic practitioners will have patients that present with an elevated BP who want something done about it, so some of us might say "OK here take some sarpagandha," BUT THIS IS NOT AYURVEDA!!! this is despite the fact that the medical strategies to lower BP WITHOUT addressing the underlying cause (which IMHO includes using any kind of antihypertensive including sarpagandha as well as mistletoe, linden, garlic, guggulu, passionflower etc.) achieves limited benefit, and in the case of the drugs specifically can cause a number of potential side-effects; see: Port S, Garfinkel A, Boyle N. 2000. There is a non-linear relationship between mortality and blood pressure. Eur Heart J 2000 Oct;21(20):1635-8 i once critiqued a paper written by a herbalist and published in a "prestigious" journal of herbalism in which she presented several case histories to demonstrate the efficacy of herbs to lower BP in essential hypertension - the fact of the matter is that she achieved minimal success by lowering BP by 5-10 mmHg at best or not at all (which is insignificant), and further, had done nothing to address the underlying factors of the disease (indeed, her knowledge of the causative factors for CVD were minimal and typical, i.e. low fat, high carb etc.) - yet, she was under the impression she had done a great service and that her case histories were an example of her great success - but, with regards to the point I am trying to make, she had done nothing really to benefit the patient or halt disease progression, and is simply using herbs as a bandaid to mask what in reality is a somewhat arbitrary clinical sign we CAN do better!!! and, for a disease like CVD it may require getting up to date with the science, and integrating these different streams of knowledge for the maximal benefit of the patient > B.P. was known to ayurveda, but it was termed as a special > "pulse" state. the pulse is not an accurate method to determine the BP it is a common misconception that what the practitioner feels during pulse diagnosis is the volume of blood - in reality, what is felt is the peristaltic muscle contraction in the artery that is initiated with the heart beat - increased force of pulse upon palpation = increased force of arterial smooth muscle contraction, which MAY be in response to an increase pressure, but also from some other reason which may be unrelated - anyway, pulse diagnosis is anumana (inference), and should not be confused with a reproducible physical sign like elevated BP Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I am a homeopath and I have essential hypertension. I have had every test under the sun and no one knows why. I work out in a gym at least 5 days out of 7 and am very fit. I also have a good diet . Allopathic medication which I felt forced into taking because of a danger of a stroke did very little except take down the diastolic and systolic by 10 points and was very up and down. I also felt guilty taking it being a homeopath. It gave me side effects in that it sapped my energy in sustained high impact aerobic and I was getting lactic acid pains in my muscles. I then found Ivy's Mukta vati and within 12 days cut my allopathic medication in half and a week or so later was able to cut it out completely. This was last February My BP is now normal and in the evenings when I am working on the computer well below normal so I have cut the evening 2 tablets down to 1. I feel no guilt about taking Ayurvedic medicine and I have no side effects. The anxiety about my BP has gone which will also help to get it down. I am still working with my homeopath to sort out my 4 year menopausal hot flushes and sleep problems and hope when I am through menopause completely the BP may stabilise. I realise that Ayurvedic works holistically but in my case taking MuktaVati for the symptoms has been brilliant. I came on this list to find out how I could purchase Ivy's Mukta Vatri from India as it costs so much money to buy it from the UK. (BTW I had tried Mistletoe tincture, garlic, Rauwolfia and the like and nothing has come near to the effect of the Mukta Vati) Rochelle Registered Homeopath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Dear Todd When you visit India next time, please contact this author a week in advance. In this mystique India, there exist people who can diagnose B.P. without having any equipment used by modern science, may be out of experience of using such an equipment for some time along with nadi diagnosis. This author will take you to such people and change your opinions then. The sensations obtained during pulse diagnosis can be transformed to B.P. readings, to an absolute accuracy plus or minus 5% and relative accuracy 3%. Meditation, breathing techniques and expereinces etc trains the CNS. A Vaidya near Trimbakeshwar, (Nasik, Maharashtra) who examins about 800 patients a day on average, just places a ceramic tile on the head of the patient and carries out diagnosis! Another Vaidya looks at astrological charts and predicts dignosis! This second vaidya is willing to take disciples. Dr Bhate ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <todd@t...> wrote: > the pulse is not an accurate method to determine the BP > it is a common misconception that what the practitioner feels during > pulse diagnosis is the volume of blood - in reality, what is felt is > the peristaltic muscle contraction in the artery that is initiated with > the heart beat - increased force of pulse upon palpation = increased > force of arterial smooth muscle contraction, which MAY be in response > to an increase pressure, but also from some other reason which may be > unrelated - anyway, pulse diagnosis is anumana (inference), and should not be confused with a reproducible physical sign like elevated BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 > > Dear Todd > When you visit India next time, please contact this author a week in > advance. In this mystique India, there exist people who can diagnose > B.P. without having any equipment used by modern science, may be out > of experience of using such an equipment for some time along with > nadi diagnosis. This author will take you to such people and change > your opinions then. > hi Shirish i will be in India this December, but only in Kerala Vaidyaratnam Mooss is hosting a global summit on Ayurveda in Trichur - will you be there? anyway, if these practitioners don't have a sphyg then how can they confirm that the BP is elevated? i can usually predict elevated BP too, simply by looking at somebody's age and body shape - its not that difficult really, but not 100% accurate basically, almost anyone beyond their late 40's with a little bit of a belly probably has elevated BP more overt signs of CVD is almost a guarantee skilled practitioners often make these links, even subconciously > The sensations obtained during pulse diagnosis can be transformed to > B.P. readings, to an absolute accuracy plus or minus 5% and relative > accuracy 3%. i'd like to know where you get these figures from - is there some research in this regard? > A Vaidya near Trimbakeshwar, (Nasik, Maharashtra) who examins about > 800 patients a day on average, just places a ceramic tile on the head 800 patients a day!! ok, considering a 12 hr work day with no break and absolute efficiency in herding these people about the clinic this fellow sees each patient for less than a minute! i am sorry to seem so bullish, but this is very hard to swallow - however, I do not discount the possibility of people with special siddhis that allows them to do such things, but I fail to see how this informs the to art and science of pulse assessment for any "normal" practitioner of Ayurveda when i think of taking the pulse, i always think the words of the tibetan pulse master, gYu-tho-pa: "My son, whenever you examine a patient Do not be careless or speak nonsense. Careless treatment based on one's own ideas is harmful to the sick. It will cause you shame and bad rumours. Specially when you are taking the pulse, You should avoid noise from human beings and other obstacles, You should not be absent minded and should concentrate. Be not in a hurry and try and understand The Teachers' speech and the texts of Medicine And your own experience." Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Do you have any natural remedy for hypertension? For the last three years I am taking Proponol 40mg two times a day and now BPis under control. I would like to know if you have any ayurvedic drug that 1.Control BP 2.Compensate whatever side-effects so far done by the allopathy medicine I am taking 3.keep vigour and vitality, essential for my profession, thatis marketing. For instance, if you take "Sarpagandhi" though effective, it will make your spirits down. Please advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arih Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 I am desperately looking for the contact information of the healer/vaidya who has an ashram between nasik and trimbakeshvar and uses ceramic tile to diagnose patients. I live in U.S and will be leaving for India in 4 weeks to meet this vaidya. if I get some contact details like the ashram's phone # or correct address I can start my trip being assured that I will meet the vaidya. My email address is ahpandit@gmail.com -Arifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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