No.4 : Questions put to Prof. Anil Kumar and answered by him. 49 to 64 (total 228 Q & A* )

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Previous Q & A links:- 1-16 17-32 33 - 48

16 questions (total 228 Q & A* ) put to Prof. Anil Kumar and answered by him.

 

*Questions & Answers 49 to 64 64 “People say, ‘Give up the ego.’ Tell us in

simple terms how to drop ego?” (20.07.03)

In simple terms? (Laughter) It is a Herculean task -- not an easy task!

When you say you want to drop the ego, it means you know that it

is unwanted stuff. You also know ego is not to be solicited; ego is dangerous

for any spiritual seeker; ego is to be dispensed of, has to be gotten rid of.

When you know that it is dangerous, what should you do it?

Baba gave one example. If you pick up a rope in the dark and

suddenly switch on your torchlight and recognize that it is not a rope but a

snake you are holding, what do you do then? You drop it immediately. As long as

it is your impression that it is a rope, you will continue to hold and play with

it. The moment you are aware that it is not a rope, but a snake, what would you

do -- you drop it and run away.

Similarly, this rope-like ego is so nice and so comfortable to

play with. With the light of awareness, you understand that it is not a rope

but a snake, so you have to drop it immediately. If you continue to hold it, it

means you are comfortable with it. It means there is no trace of awareness and

you do not know the danger involved. Therefore to drop the ego, awareness is

required.

63 “Iron kept near the magnet acquires all the magnetic power of the magnet.

You live in close proximity to Bhagavan. Have you acquired magnetic power too?”

(20.07.03)

I said, “I could have acquired magnetic power, but this iron still has some

dust. Until the dust is totally removed, it cannot be drawn towards the magnet,

let alone becoming a magnet -- which is a later development. It has not yet been

cleansed totally. I cannot claim any magnetic power as of now.”

 

62 “It is really a different experience to be in physical proximity. How would

you handle or lead your life if you were not in the physical proximity of

Bhagavan?” (20.07.03)

The problems arise when you take Swami as a person -- if you take Swami as an

individual. If you take Swami as a phenomenon, if you consider Sai as a

Presence, not as a person, you will certainly behave in the same way as you

would behave near Him. God is not a person. I am very fond of this statement.

If you consider God as a person, you can be near Him for some time. You also

have to be necessarily away from Him later. But, because He is within you, you

can never be near or away. You cannot be away from your Self. It is foolish to

say that I am near my Self. You are what you are and you are where you are.

Therefore, God is an eternal Presence. He is within you. So this problem of

being away from Him or being near Him does not arise. God is not an object to

be bought, to be owned, to be purchased or to be manufactured. He is neither an

object nor a person; He is a phenomenon. ‘Person’ is the term given to God for

practical purposes. He is cosmic energy, Divine. Divinity is awareness. What is

His nature? Energy. That is all. You can give that energy any name, but in

spirit this is the reality.

 

61. “As members of the Sai family, how can we get in touch with you, from

wherever we are?” (20.07.03)

I said, “Don’t get in touch with me. Not only that. Don’t get in touch with

anybody. Be in constant touch with Bhagavan within you. That is most essential.

”

Establishing contact with people, being in touch with people, is a useless thing

that we are supposed to do. It is meaningless to be in touch with anybody. If

you are to be in touch with anybody, it should be with Bhagavan. We should

always be in touch with Bhagavan. That is called ‘Constant Integrated

Awareness’.

60.The next question was a request for me to share my experiences about leading

a detached life, yet attached to Swami. The questioner expected an authentic

answer from me, and was already under the impression that I was an example to

emulate. (20.07.03)

I said that there was no doubt about the second part of the question -- that we

all are attached to Swami. Not only me -- all of us. Sai devotees all over the

world are equally attached to Swami. No one is more attached or less attached.

Comparisons have no meaning in spirituality. Only brainless people measure

attachments in kilos, tons, milligrams and degrees. All are equally attached.

There are no parameters. There is no yardstick to measure spirituality, because

it is immeasurable - avyasta, aprameya - beyond all known measure. Never

measure; never try to estimate; never judge. All are equally attached.

Regarding leading a detached life, I told them directly that I was a poor

example. I am not leading a detached life. I am attached to good rest. I am

attached to the first cup of hot coffee, very much attached to hot pickles --

spicy things. So I cannot speak with authority on how to lead a detached life.

Do not keep me on a high pedestal. Never think that I am an example for you to

emulate and copy, certainly not! We are all fellow pilgrims. We are all fellow

seekers. We are all traveling towards perfection. No one is more than another.

I cannot say that I am holier than you. No body should say that. It is for

Bhagavan to say that you are good. And that He will not say in front of you, I

am sure. (Laughter) Therefore, I cannot stand as an example for a detached

life.

I am sure they appreciated the frank, direct answer rather than my giving

answers that are polished, which I never do.

59. Who helped Swami with the translation while I was away here in the US? (20.07.03)

Some people might have expected that I would mention one or two names. I am not

a fool to say that. I said that if Bhagavan wills it, anybody could do it. If

He picked up a stick and asked it to do it, it would be able to!

No one can take credit. No one is indispensable in the Sai Organization. It is

only a chance given to you. If you don’t take it, another person will. Please

understand: every person is a better substitution. If you don’t avail of the

opportunity, you are the loser.

A Tamilian (from Tamil Nadu), whose mother tongue is Tamil, was asked by

Bhagavan to translate His talk into English. Bhagavan gave His discourse in

Telugu. The Tamilian translated His discourse into English. I was a witness to

this incident.

My place would be in a lunatic asylum if I felt that Bhagavan was left with none

other than me. If not me, He will find a better person.

I also happily recall another situation. There is a place very close

to Bangalore called Tumkur. The director of Tumkur granite factory invited

Bhagavan to visit the factory. Bhagavan went there and I followed him. There

was a big central hall with a round table, well decorated, highly prestigious.

I saw people from different countries seated there: one from Germany, one from

Japan, one from France. They were members of the board of directors. Swami sat

among them.

I wondered if I should go in or stay back -- to be or not to be? (Laughter) ‘What am I to do?’

If I do not go in, Swami might say that I was shirking my responsibility. If I

go in, He might say, “Why did you come? I did not ask you.” (Laughter) What is

to be done? So I stood there at entrance with my face showing now and then. It

was like hide-and-seek. If He asked me to come in, I could run. If He did not

see me, I can slip off. That was the situation.

I saw Swami talk to the devotees from Japan, France and Germany.

At the end, Swami slowly came very close to me and said, “Come here.”

I went to Him. He said, “I know all the languages.” (Laughter)

Then I said, “Swami, why did You call me here? Why am I here?”

He said, “I know all the languages, but you should know that I know them all!

Therefore I brought you here.” (Laughter) That is Bhagavan for you.

I will share another incident. Bhagavan was in darshan line talking to a person

whose mother tongue was Hindi. Next to him was a boy from Orissa, whose mother

tongue was Oriya. This boy did not know any Hindi at all. Swami was talking to

the Hindi man in Hindi, and he was replying. But the Oriya fellow also started

smiling. We did not understand why he was smiling.

When Swami left, the Hindi gentleman asked the Oriya man why he smiled and

nodded his head, even though he did not know Hindi.

”Are you mad?” he asked. The Oriya man said that Swami spoke in Oriya and not in Hindi!

He knows all languages. He can communicate in one language, while speaking in

another! That is language beyond language -- the language of the heart!

58. “How did you become the translator for Baba?” (20.07.03)

What can I say? My answers are already on record and are subject to

verification. I cannot give a different answer from what I said in the United

States -- all the audiocassettes are in circulation!

I said, “I did not become a translator. I was made a translator. Bhagavan willed

that I should be a translator. I made no effort, no attempt and I never dreamt

of it either. I spent seven years of probation, sitting in the 40th and 50th

row! I never dreamt of anything like this.”

So, if you ask me, “How did you become the translator?” I can only say, “I did

not become; Bhagavan willed it so.” That is all. And moreover, it is even more

surprising if you look into my educational background. I hail from a small

town, not from a city. I did not study in any public school or in a convent.

Until tenth grade, I studied in the Telugu medium. I am myself surprised to be

in the capacity of a translator.

57.“Why was Rama commanded to spend 14 years in exile?” (09.02.2003)

I am very grateful to this devotee who gave an interpretation. “Why was Rama

commanded to spend 14 years in exile?” He provided an answer to this question.

I am very grateful to him. I will just read out the answer that he gave from

Sai literature. One question was asked some weeks back: “Why 14 years? Why not

13? Why not 12?” Then my answer was, “Why bother about 12 or 13? When He could

not be in society, when He could not be in Ayodhya, the capital of His kingdom,

after all 10 or 12 years, what does it matter?” That’s what I said, of course

in a jovial way. But this is the correct answer given by Bhagavan, which was

sent to us by e-mail from a friend. I will read it to you now.

“There was a question regarding why the number 14 years was given for Sri Rama’s

exile. Swami did mention why it was 14 years. During Sri Rama’s time, it was

considered that if a husband and wife live separately for 13 years, then the

marriage is considered null and void. So, Mandhara wanted Kaikeyi to ask

Dasaratha to banish Sri Rama for 14 years so that His relationship with the

throne was destroyed. Even now Indian law says that if anyone rents your house

for more than 12 years, we don’t need to ask him -- he owns it! (Laughter) So

that is the point.”

 

56. It seems Swami said another prayer: “Annam Brahmaa, Raso Vishnu, Bhoktho

Devo Maheswara.” The question is this: Shall I say “Brahmaarpanam Brahmahavihi”

before eating food, or shall I say, “Annam Brahmaa, Raso Vishnu, Bhoktho Devo

Maheswara” -- this prayer or that prayer? (09.02.2003)

My friend, this prayer or that prayer, after all, it is only a prayer. This

sweet or that sweet, they are still sweets. Right? Similarly, “Brahmaarpanam

Brahmahavihi” is the usual prayer that we offer before we partake food. Nothing

wrong with it. We don’t need to substitute it with this “Annam Brahmaa, Raso

Vishnu, Bhoktho Devo Maheswara”. That’s not necessary. Both mean the same: The

food is Divine. The one who partakes of the food is Divine and the essence is

Divine. That is the meaning.

You can call it water or aqua.

“Shall I say ‘aqua’?”

“Good.”

“Shall I say ‘water’?”

“Why not?”

Both mean H2O. There’s no change in its content. That’s the answer I can give you.

55.“Why doesn’t Bhagavan cure Himself?” (02.02.2003)

Bhagavan said in one of His discourses, ‘If you pray, I will cure

Myself.’ Why don’t we pray so that He can cure Himself?”

The question that has been asked has a problem. When there is a disease, there

is a solution, a cure. But when there is no complaint, where is the question of

a cure?

Baba said, “I never experience pain. I have not used any tablet, pill or

injection until this day. I do not suffer, but it appears like I have been

suffering.”

Am I clear? Is it true? Why not? We appear to be happy though we are not

happy. (Laughter) This is because we are good actors. God is the Super Actor,

so He can act better than all of us! (Laughter) Jagannatha Sutradhari, The

Divine Actor. So we pretend to be happy, though we are not happy. If we can do

this at the human level, then why can’t He act at the Divine level and pretend

to be suffering?

If this is the case, then our question becomes, “Why should He pretend?” The

reason He pretends is because He takes on our suffering. Why should He suffer

for us? He does it in order to reduce the period of our suffering because we

cannot bear the intensity of it. Therefore, Baba does not need to cure Himself

because He does not suffer.

Then why did He say, “If you pray, I will cure Myself?” He said this so that

at the very least we will pray for this reason. (Laughter) At least we should

pray on these grounds because He wants us to pray one way or another. If you

don’t pray, you become ‘prey’. (Laughter) Therefore, I don’t believe that He

suffers because we see Him with all these external, so-called complaints, and

yet He can get up and still speak.

There was one moment when He could not speak at all. His voice was so low that

I could not hear it. It was like He was speaking from the bottom of a well. I

could not hear Him.

He said, “Anil Kumar, My voice is like this. My voice is like this.”

What could I reply? He was to speak in ten minutes. He called me into the

interview room and said, “I cannot speak.”

I thought to myself, “What should I say?”

Then He asked, “What shall I do?” (Laughter)

Well, I couldn’t do anything about it! (Laughter)

Then He said, “You speak.”

I said, “I want to live for a while longer. (Laughter) I can’t speak because

people are expecting Your speech. If I go up there and start speaking, well I

don’t think I will survive until tomorrow. People are anxious to see and hear

You, not me. I can’t do that, Swami.”

“Then what shall I do?”

“You may do anything You like. (Laughter) You can ask somebody else to speak.

Swami, I dare not speak for You because nobody can stand in on Your behalf –

unless that fellow was just released from a mental hospital.” (Laughter)

It is impossible for anyone to represent Him. Nobody can represent Him on His

behalf. No one can say, “He has given me all His powers.”

There are some people who say, “Baba has given some powers to me.”

Oh ho, He is not a distribution centre! (Laughter)

There are some who say, “Baba speaks through me.”

Why should He speak through others – as if He cannot speak for Himself?

(Laughter) These are all utterly ignorant, idiotic, stupid claims, and we

should never fall prey to them. Do not allow yourself to be preyed upon by

these people. No one ever represents Him. No one will receive special powers,

or a special delegation to start a branch office. He does not need any medium

to speak through because He is in you, with you, above you, below you and

around you. He and you are One! Where is the question of a third person?

When Baba says, “I and you are One,” if you say, “I want somebody else to tell

me this”, well all right, hang yourself. Nobody can help you. When He’s there in

you, why do you want a separate medium? We’re not able to find Him in us;

therefore we are confused.

My friends, I can only answer these questions this way, but I’m happy that you

have come forward with some questions. I’m grateful to all those who have sent

these questions because they are all intellectual and thought provoking. They

help me to dive into the depths of Reality and to remember everything Bhagavan

has said. I thank them all. I thank all of you for having listened to the talk

in rapt attention.

54. “How do we know that we are realised?" (02.02.2003)

Very good. How do we know that we are realised? How do I know that I am rich? I

can look in the passbook. I can go to the bank and the cashier will tell me.

(Laughter) How do I know that I am educated? I have diplomas and degrees, yes.

How do you know that you are realised? When you forget this ‘I’, you are

already realised. (Laughter) If you say, “I know I am rich. I know I am

educated. I know I am realised,” then you are not realised because ‘I’ is still

there. When you do not exist, then there is realisation, that’s all. Realisation

is you. You are the realisation. So, how can you say that you are realised? No,

you can’t say that.

Here’s an example. Let’s imagine we have a toy made of sugar candy. To find

out how deep the water level is, we put it into a water tank. We drop the sugar

toy in, and wait to see it come back up. But what happened? We searched all

around, but couldn’t find it. Why didn’t it come back to the surface? It didn’t

return because it dissolved.

It is not a problem to solve -- it was just time for it to dissolve. Let us

resolve to dissolve, not merely to solve. Therefore, my friends, how do I know

I am realised? When the ‘I’ is gone, you are already realised. That is the

answer I can give you.

Then in an interview, it was said that there was a lady outside who was

already a realised soul, therefore Bhagavan could not give her an interview.

Oh? First of all, if Swami had said to that lady, “You are a realised soul,

therefore I have not given you an interview,” that realised soul would not

repeat this because realisation is Bhagavan. Bhagavan is realisation. You are

realisation. What is the question? Where is the problem of Him saying, “I

didn’t call you for an interview because you are realised”? It is gone. The

very question is gone because Bhagavan and you are One. That happens to be

realisation. That’s all. There’s no question of being called or not being

called for an interview. There’s only the question of an inner view and not an

interview.

I don’t recall Bhagavan saying to anybody, “You are a realised soul.” The

simple fact that we are here means that we have yet to be realised. We have yet

to be realised because a realised soul will be in a state of bliss. He does not

see a second -- he’s only One-without-a-second, non-dual. Therefore, I don’t

understand this problem.

 

53.“When He separated Himself from Himself into many, was there any reduction in

bliss? Was His bliss reduced? Is His bliss now divided, separated? Does He

experience less bliss?” (02.02.2003)

Here’s a simple example. When I have a thousand rupees and I distribute it

among ten people, I am left with only ten rupees. Similarly, if Bhagavan has

one hundred percent of bliss to begin with, what happens when He divides

Himself by ten percent, and then ten percent again, and so on? Is He left with

only ten percent? (Laughter) I’m sorry. I’m sorry because He is whole. You are

whole. You are total. You are full, not a fraction.

Poorna mada. Poorna midam.

That is full. This is full.

So, there is no question of reduction or decline in bliss. There was no change

in the percentage of bliss when He divided Himself into many. That answer I can

tell you from His discourses.

 

52. “Before He took a body, was Bhagavan aware of bliss and Love to the same

extent that He is now?” (02.02.2003)

Ah ha, very good. (Laughter) My friends, He need not be aware of bliss. He

need not be aware of His Love. This has nothing to do with before or after

taking of the body. No. He is awareness Itself. He did not become aware. He is

awareness Itself. Please, understand. Similarly, Bhagavan does not need to

acquire wisdom. He is wisdom Itself. He does not need to become knowledgeable.

His is knowledge Itself. Therefore, is He aware? The question doesn’t arise

because He is awareness.

But let me give you further clarification. A question was put to Swami

regarding how much food He eats. After all, He eats very little. I don’t know

how many of you have noticed, but He eats only two or three spoons of food,

that’s all. It can be very embarrassing for others to sit with Him during

meals. (Laughter) But we are helpless because He feels very happy when we eat

more and more. (Laughter) The more we eat, the happier He is. But He eats very

little. (Laughter)

When I asked, “Swami, how are You so energetic with only two spoons of food?”

He said, “You get energy from the food that you eat. I don’t get energy from

the food I eat because I am energy.”

Bhagavan is energy Itself. (Applause) He doesn’t need to get energy from food.

Please understand. Therefore, is He aware of Love? This question isn’t necessary

because He is Love. Is He aware of bliss? No, because He is bliss Itself. That

is the answer.

51.“Does spiritual evolution continue after death? (19.01.2003)

I have not met anybody who has returned after death, telling me, “I have

evolved.” (Laughter) No, I have not come across anybody like this.

But the scriptures clearly say this: “There’s no death at all.”

Understanding death will help you to understand that there is no death. That is

the reason why we have to understand what death is -- in order to be deathless.

So, there’s no death. There can only be death if there is birth; but there’s no

birth either. No birth and no death is the reality -- even though it is so

difficult to believe -- because the soul or spirit is eternal, immortal. Swami

always says:

Sunwantu Viswe Amrutasya Putraha.

The real Divinity in you is beyond birth and death.

The so-called birth is only the appearance of the body, and the so-called death

is only the disappearance of the body. To quote Bhagavan here: “You move from

one room to another room. That does not mean that you are already dead in the

next room and you are going to be born again in this adjoining room. Certainly

not! You are moving from one room to another. The whole thing belongs to you.”

In a similar way, birth and death are only a change of dress. This is why, when

He was on the cross, Jesus Christ told His mother Mary, “Death is the dress of

life.” That’s what I can say.

And what is spiritual evolution? Spiritual evolution is the feeling that a drop

belongs to the ocean. The drop is not separate. The drop and the ocean are one

and the same. The spark and the fire are one and the same. The foam, the wave

and the water are all one and the same. The clay and the pot are one and the

same. The gold and the jewels are one and the same. This kind of experience is

a culmination in the evolution of this organic world.

Well, that brings us to the end of the questions submitted to me. I thank you

very much for having been here with me this morning and for listening to the

talk with rapt attention. May Bhagavan be with you forever and ever more!

 

50.“We have very little time to work in the organisation. Baba, with all His

compassion, is accelerating everybody’s karma. Please clarify.” (19.01.2003)

Acceleration of karma is not limited to organisational works. Please, be very

clear -- our work in the organisation is not in any way different from our

office work. It is the spirit that counts, not the work that matters. So long

as I think I have done the work, whether it is organisational work or office

work or domestic work or menial work, or whatever work I do - if I do it with a

sense of ‘I-ness’, that is ridiculous. That is undesirable.

Without this ‘I-ness’, whatever you do -- whether office or personal work

anywhere -- if it is done with the feeling, “Baba, You are the doer; I’m only

an instrument in Your hands,” well, that will certainly accelerate everybody’s

karma, leading to total annihilation, freeing you from bondage. So, this

‘I-ness’, the spirit, is more important, not necessarily whether it is

organisational work or office work.

 

 

49.“There are many people who claim that they are the reincarnation of Jesus.”

(Laughter) “Shall we follow him?” (19.01.2003)

If anyone calls himself the reincarnation of Jesus, before you decide to follow

him, let the psychiatrist decide. (Laughter). There are many people who make

claims like that. Let’s not go by false claims.