KODAI KANAL & PROF ANIL KUMAR'S TRIP WITH SWAMI

[Guest guest]

Sai Ram. Herewith a wonderful text on an interview over Radio Sai, with Anil

Kumar. The text made available to us by Sri Ramchand Chugani.

Love - "Bombay Srinivasan" <vsvasan99 >

KODAI KANAL & PROF ANIL KUMAR'S TRIP WITH SWAMI.

DR G.V & PROF ANIL KUMAR

GV: The Kodai trip seems to be an extraordinary event and with a special purpose

too. Why don’t you tell us all about the Kodaikanal trip, starting from the

beginning?

AK: Well Sir, Swami selects students for the trip, and the selection is based on

all aspects of their performance in the college - academic, conduct, devotion,

excellence in sports and games, talent for singing and dramatics as well. All

talented students who are also highly devoted are selected by Bhagawan to

follow Him. A few teachers are also included in the party. Kodaikanal is such a

beautiful place. If I am to say how paradise would be, well, that could not be

anything other than Kodaikanal.

GV: When does Swami go to Kodaikanal, typically?

AK: Usually He leaves in early April; and He returns by 5th of May. So roughly

speaking, He spends about a month in Kodaikanal. But there have been occasions

when He stayed on 6th of May also and celebrated ESWARAAMMA DAY there, in

Kodaikanal. It happened twice I believe. Kodaikanal is most interesting because

Swami is very, very close to the boys and they can learn many, many things from

Swami.

GV: I suppose boys are also very close to Swami.

AK: Very, very intimate.

GV: Typically, how many hours a day is Swami with them?

AK: Sir, immediately after breakfast He spends an hour with them. After that,

Bhagawan goes out to give Darshan to the devotees and grants them interviews.

During this time, the boys go around the lake a bit and they return by 9:30.

>From 9:30 to 11 O’clock Swami again talks to the boys, after which lunch

follows. Next we have tea around 2 O’clock. Swami talks to boys again from 2:30

to 4 O’clock. From about 4 to 5 P.M there is a public meeting, which the boys

also attend. After the public meeting, Swami talks to students and some select

devotees, which is something like an echo session – the evening meeting is

reviewed.

GV: Public meeting means Discourse also?

AK: Yes of course; the Discourse is given in the Bhajan Hall of Sai Sruthi, Swami’s Mandir in Kodai.

GV: So, from morning till evening, Swami is talking all the time?

AK: At least five Discourses a day!

GV: My God!

AK: Four of these Discourses are exclusively for students. Besides, it is

wonderful to see how Swami treats the boys. He enquires about their family,

their brothers and so on.

GV: OK, let us go over the details and start from Bangalore - He always starts

from Bangalore, right? It must be pretty exciting to go all the way from

Bangalore to Kodaikanal. Tell us everything about the trip from Bangalore to

Kodaikanal.

AK: The student party travels in a big air-conditioned van, with cushioned seats

that can recline. Swami tells all the boys to get into the van, which is loaded

with sweets and eatables of all kinds, apart from fruits in plenty. One can go

on eating until one reaches Kodaikanal, neck deep. During the journey to

Kodaikanal, Bhagawan halts at not less than fifteen to twenty places. This is

because the State of Tamil Nadu in which Kodai is located, is full of Sai

devotees all over. Every village in Tamil Nadu has a SAI centre. Along the

highway, devotees raise huge pandals and sit there singing Bhajans while

waiting for Baba. Swami stops, gets down from His car, blesses all devotees,

makes a quick round, receives Aarathi and the gets back into His car.

GV: Letters also?

AK: Yes, He takes letters also, smiles and enquires, “How are you?” And after He

gets back into the car, the convoy proceeds.

GV: How long does it take you to go from Bangalore to Kodaikanal with stops for lunch, etc.,?

AK: We start from Bangalore at about 5 O’clock in the morning and reach

Kodaikanal by 5:30 or 6 in the evening.

GV: Twelve hours?

AK: Twelve hours at a stretch and there are certain important places like

Dindigul, Salem and Coimbatore, where big groups, roughly twenty five thousand

people, gather.

GV: Twenty five thousand?

AK: Yes, and waiting for Bhagawan. The other Centres will have not less than a

thousand or two thousand. But these big towns are where Bhagawan used to

address devotees many years back in the early days. They still remember Him and

that is why they assemble in very large numbers when Swami is on His way to

Kodaikanal. On reaching Kodai, He gives to every boy a sleeping bag. When they

get in and pull the zip, we don’t know if it is a gunny bag of rice or a boy

sleeping inside!

That is not all. Next morning, Swami distributes a kit containing tooth Brush,

tooth paste, shaving cream, after-shave lotion, blades, the razor, and so on.

After this come towels, new dresses, cameras and what not. One suitcase load of

gifts of daily needs and certain monumental presents that we feel like

preserving for the posterity.

GV: So you can go without any luggage and accumulate lots of luggage?

AK: Take one suitcase and bring back three!

GV: So what happens to the teaching about less luggage? (Laughter).

AK: And then the sumptuous meals there. For breakfast we have three items, ten

items for lunch, four items for afternoon tea, and ten items once more for

dinner.

GV: Tell me Anil Kumar, after eating all this, how do you manage to stay awake

through the five sessions when Swami speaks? (Laughter)

AK: Swami’s speech is like an appetizer. Listening more makes us also eat more!

GV: So food for the stomach, food for the head and food for the Heart!

AK: At times, Swami takes the boys out on a picnic, where He almost plays with

the boys. Sometimes, He even sings with the boys. All sorts of funny things

happen.

GV: Does it all remind you of Krishna and His cowherd boys, the Gopalas?

AK: Yes, I think it is all action replay, like a tape being replayed.

GV: Except for the age difference between the physical body of the Lord and

those who are with Him this time?

AK: May be, but Bhagawan crosses all time barriers when He materialises certain

things. I know Sir, one year He materialised the ring worn by Lord Rama that

was presented to Him by His father Dasaratha.

GV: Oops! The ring that Dasaratha gave?!!

AK: That is right. It was a diamond ring, and Swami was smiling as He looked

around while materialising another ring – this time it was a sapphire ring that

was presented to Lord Rama by His father-in-law, Emperor Janaka.

GV: I am told these rings are very big?

AK: Very big indeed. I said, “Swami, it is almost the size of my wrist. How come

this ring is so big?” Swami replied, “Lord Rama was an Aajanubhau, meaning one

of very tall stature.

GV: Eight feet or so?

AK: Yes, Swami then materialised the Mangalsutra or sacred wedding medallion,

complete with the sacred thread that holds the medallion. This was worn by

Mother Sita at the time of the wedding. I have also seen Swami materialising

the chain worn by Ravana.

GV: Ravana?

AK: Yes, complete with 365 Shiva Lingas and a pendant at the bottom made up of

three large Shiva Lingas, one yellow, one green and one blue. All the 365 were

made of gold while the three in the pendant at the centre were made of crystal.

This was the chain that Ravana wore.

GV: What happens to these jewels afterwards?

AK: They go back to SAI STORES (laughter). Swami also materialised a golden

replica of the deer that captivated Sita, later landing her in trouble.

GV: Are you allowed to touch these objects?

AK: Yes, sir. On one occasion, Swami said, “Tomorrow is the wedding function of

Balarama [brother of Krishna] and Revathi. All of you are invited for lunch!”

Sure enough, on the following day, there was a fabulous lunch and in the

afternoon Swami spoke about the marriage of Balarama with Revathi. And at the

end He materialised a magnificent diamond-studded necklace with three or four

rows of diamonds.

GV: My GOD! How big was the necklace?

AK: About 15 cms. At the centre of the arch-like necklace there was a Swan

suspended by a gold chain. The Swan was clear and you could look through its

eyes, beak, stomach, and so on. Every body started looking at it. Swami came to

me and said, “Look, look deep”. I did so and there in the middle of the stomach

of that bird I could see Bhagawan Baba in a reclining posture, the classic

reclining posture of Lord Narayana, reclining on His Thousand-hooded snake,

Adisesha. That is what I saw. It was absolutely fantastic. Swami also

materialised the CHOODAMANI or the ornament that Sita used to wear on her head.

This was the CHOODAMANI that Hanuman brought back as proof of having met Sita,

when he reported back to the Lord Rama.

GV: How do the boys feel on such occasions? They must be transported to a different world.

AK: That is right, into a totally different world. They had come so close that

they even took the liberty of almost pestering, saying, “Swami, let us see, let

us see!” Swami gave ample opportunities for all to see these manifested objects

at close quarters. He would keep them on the table so that everybody could

later see at some leisure. Photographs would be taken and some of them are here

in our MUSEUM also.

GV: Fantastic! Can you recall some really moving, spectacular, or heart-warming

incidences? I am sure there must certainly have been a few of these.

AK: Well, there was an incident involving a student from the State of Kerala.

GV: How long ago did this incident take place?

AK: About six to eight years ago. Swami was showing special concern for this

boy. We were wondering why? In fact, I was even jealous! Swami materialised a

ring for him, a chain for him, a watch for him, and so on, and it seemed as if

the whole trip was meant just for this boy! After a few days Swami materialised

a pair of ear rings for that boy.

GV: Ear rings?

AK: Yes sir, ear rings that only girls wear. How is it that He materialised ear

rings for the boy? We just couldn’t understand. The next day, Swami

materialised another set of ear rings for the same boy. I thought to myself,

“Swami I have three daughters, you can give me also one (laughter), why only to

that boy, an unmarried fellow?” Then after a week, while delivering a Discourse,

Swami said, “Many are wondering why Swami showed special concern to one

particular boy. Some are specially curious to know why I gave ear rings to that

boy. That boy lost his mother long back. I have been watching the boy crying and

sitting in a corner. I called him close to Me and asked him about the reason. He

then told Me about the death of his mother and how his mother wanted to present

ear rings to her two daughters, that is the two sisters of this boy.

Before his mother could do that, she died. Now, I am his Mother and also of

those girls. Who else is there to care for them? That is why I materialised

many things for that boy. You will seldom understand what I do. Whatever I do

and say has got a deeper significance and inner meaning. Out of frustration,

the boy’s father wanted to commit suicide. I made the boy’s father to come

here, took a promise form him that he would not make any attempt to take his

life. I am now taking care of the family. From that day onwards, the boy has

started smiling.” That story really touched my heart. I said, “Swami you are

the MOTHER of MOTHERS, dearer and nearer than the physical mother. You truly

care for them”. I am sure none of us can really experience the depth, and the

full intensity of Swami’s Love.

GV: Yes, that’s true. Swami has always that feeling towards us; only, we are not

able to see that. Instead we go around making all sorts of silly statements

like, “Swami is angry, so He will not talk,” and so on. We do not realise that

Swami cannot be anything other than loving. In this context Swami says that God

does not change and that it is only man who changes. One day he says God is good

another day, he says God is not so great! The problem is always with man and

never with God.

AK: Yes sir and He gives an example also. When we go by train to Bangalore, we

say, as the city is approaching, “Bangalore is coming, Bangalore is coming”.

And while departing from Bangalore, “We say Bangalore is gone”. Bangalore

neither comes, nor goes. It is only we who go there and leave from there.

GV: Any memorable incidents that you can recall from your Kodaikanal trips?

AK: Yes. In Kodai, Swami often distributes all sorts of things, including

peppermints, chocolate bars, and so on. Suddenly one day He said, “I am here

distributing all these sweets and chocolates for you to eat, but there is one

fellow who is not eating; instead he is dumping them all into his bag. Come on

boys! Search everybody’s bags.” It was something like an income tax raid

(laughter)! Then I said, “Swami, Bhagawan, why all this trouble? I am the one

who is not eating. I am keeping them all in my bag.” Bhagawan then asked, “Why

do you do that?” I replied, “Swami I have four children. They expect something

from me. When I take back these most precious things like peppermints -

whatever You give is most valuable for all of us – when I hand over these

things, the children will jump in joy”. Swami said, “Oh, is that so?” He then

told the

boys, “Hereafter, you give Anil Kumar five pieces of sweets, four for his

children to be kept in the bag, one for him to eat along with you and feel

happy”. How can I ever forget that incident? I don’t recall anybody loving me

more than Bhagawan Baba. In fact, this is the feeling of every devotee. This is

the chance you have given me, sir, to describe my experience, which is also the

experience of millions of devotees, the world over.

GV: What does Swami expect in return for all these? This is a sort of typical

human question, because I do know that God does not expect any returns. In any

case, let us hear what you have to say.

AK: Swami only wants us to learn from Him that just as He loves us, we must love

our family, fellow human beings and God. And that is because God is Love and

Love is God. Always Live in LOVE - that is His message.

GV: I am told that one year on Eswaramma’s day, Swami distributed blankets to

the poor and then went out distributing to people who could not come to Sai

Sruthi or the Mandir in Kodai. Were you present at that time? That seems to be

a very unusual and moving incident. Why don’t you tell us about it?

AK: Yes, blankets were first distributed to all the poor people who assembled in

Sai Sruthi that day, the 6th of May celebrated as Eswaramma day. Suddenly Swami

said, “Let’s go!” He got into His car and the convoy started moving. On the

way, whenever He saw poor people He stopped the car, got down and started

personally distributing these blankets.

GV: Did He explain why?

AK: Bhagawan said you should do everything to care for the poor, the needy and

the forlorn. This is a lesson that everyone should learn from Bhagawan. You

should not expect them to come to you for service; instead, you must go to

them, the Daridra Narayana or God disguised as the poor.

GV: Was it also because some of them could not come because they were disabled?

AK: Absolutely. Not only that sir, on our way to Kodaikanal, His car would

sometimes suddenly stop whenever He saw a beggar or a village woman carrying a

head-load of firewood. He would call them and give money; these are people who

have never seen Swami before nor know anything about Him, much less that He was

SAI BABA. He does things like that all the time. When I give Him a strange look,

Bhagawan says, “I just cannot bear to see these poor people suffering like

that”. Sir, I think you will be more thrilled and excited if I say, that in

Kodai, Bhagawan purchases fluffy candy or candy puffs. Once He purchased about

twenty-five of them and took them in His car – His car was full of that stuff.

Later He distributed them to VIPs. They were just amazed. Bhagawan then said,

“Do you know why I bought them? Here, in Kodaikanal there are some

aged people, they cannot move about and their children carry on their livelihood

by selling these candy puffs. So when I purchase them, they go back home with

money and give to their parents and that day is taken care of”. From that day,

every body started purchasing candy puffs. For twenty five candy puffs you may

have to pay about ten rupees, but Swami gave them five hundred rupees. I asked,

“Swami, why so much?” He replied that it was not the price of candy that He was

giving, but His Love! It is not the price of the candy, it is the love of

Bhagawan towards them. I was really so happy when one day He called the boys

and told them, “Boys, look here, you have seen Tibetans girls selling woollen

garments. Everybody go and buy so that they will be happy!” When Sai Baba is in

Kodai, they all have very good business. And then you must have heard about the

straw hats.

GV: Straw hats? In fact I thing I have a photo of Swami and Narasimhamoorthy with straw hats.

AK: Swami got down from His car one day and purchased a straw hat and put it on

His head. When Swami wore that hat, the whole Kodaikanal was soon full of these

straw hats. Bhagawan said, “See they now have plenty of money and are very

happy”. These are all poor people and they wait for Bhagawan to arrive in Kodai

because with Swami, Lakshmi [the goddess of Wealth] follows and takes care of

their life. And one day, Swami called two servant maids, very poor ladies, and

gave them silk saris. I was wondering why.

GV: How did He pick these two women?

AK: They were working there in the Ashram, washing utensils. Swami gave them

silk sarees. I asked, “Swami, silk sarees for servant maids?” Swami looked at

me and said, “It is I who give; why should you cry (laughter)? Are you

jealous?” I replied, “No, Swami they cannot afford these silk sarees, I don’t

know why You give them such expensive clothes?” He replied, “So that they may

wear them and attend marriages and such functions. When they visit relatives

wearing these sarees, they would say, ‘Sai Baba gave this’. That would give

them a lot of joy. Why do you think like that?” Sai loves everybody and His

Love is uniform.

GV: He always tries to make people happy.

AK: Extremely happy.

GV: The message is that we also should try to do that. Tell me how Swami, in

subtle ways, teaches the students. I ask this because you say living with Swami

is an experience. What are the lessons?

AK: He watches how every student conducts himself and immediately points out deficiencies.

GV: X-ray eyes!

AK: If there is any mistake, He will notice it. To begin with, dining-table

manners, how one should conduct himself while dining with others. Usually boys

serve first. There are so many points to consider here - how to serve, how to

receive guests, how to extend hospitality, how to talk to elders, how to dress,

all sorts of minute details. These days, parents do not have the time to observe

and teach. They are busy in their own way. But Bhagawan is more than a parent.

He cares for His boys. With the result the boy becomes so good that his parents

would wonder whether he was the same child. When they leave home the boys are of

one type while when they come back they are totally transformed. That is the

transformation that Swami produces.

GV: Did you feel it was kind of very strange that God is doing all this?

AK: Well, God comes down for both for reformation and transformation.

Reformation of the world and transformation of the inner being.

GV: You say Swami selects boys with talents. How does He put these talents on

display in Kodaikanal?

AK: In many ways. During Bhajans He will ask them to sing. Later, boys would be

asked to play on musical instruments. Boys with talent for speaking would be

asked to give talks.

GV: Are there some KAVI SAMMELANS or sessions devoted to poetry?

AK: The Sathya Sai Institute is rather unique in that we have students from many

parts of the country. We have all together about fifteen languages or so. Thus

each student would compose a poem or a song in his own language. One day Swami

would organise this KAVI SAMMELAN, or an assembly of poets, rendering their

compositions. Swami will tell every boy, “Come on, sing a song or recite a poem

in your mother tongue.” And while the boy is doing so, Swami would translate,

add explanations and interpretations, besides correcting the boy wherever he

went wrong.

GV: Translating? If it is a Bengali poem ?

AK: He translates all languages.

GV: Then, why does He need you?! Anyway, this is amazing. Now tell us something

about the picnic. That must be something very unusual.

AK: Swami will take the boys to a nearby mountain area in Kodaikanal. The party

would go there with food packets. All would sit in the form of a circle and

Swami would start joking on the dress and the walking style of boys, besides

imitating them, much to the amusement of every body. It is all quite

light-hearted. Of course, when He pokes fun, it is really to help the boy to

correct his mistakes. He says to one boy, “You are walking like a lady,” and

that boy would know how to walk properly. He will look at another boy and ask,

“Why you are so fat? You had better do some exercises,” making everybody laugh.

After some bantering like this come the games. Small slips of paper are prepared

with various instructions written on them, such as: You must dance, you should

sing, you must crack a joke, and so on. The number of slips so prepared is

equal to the number of people seated around in a circle. A slip is put in a box

and the box is passed around while music plays. Suddenly the music is stopped

and the boy holding the box at that moment has to do exactly what is written on

the slip inside.

GV: Everyone gets a slip including Swami?

AK: Including Swami.

GV: Oh, My God!

AK: It so happened; Prof. Sampath was there in the group. He got a slip. Prof.

Sampath is a wonderful person, a well-known scientist, a man of ready wit and

humour, and a personification of human values. When Prof. Sampath’s turn came

and he looked at the slip inside, it said, “You should sing a song.” Professor

said “Swami, I cannot sing.” Swami said, “I cannot help you. You have to follow

the rules of the game and do just what your slip says”. Prof Sampath then

pleaded, “Swami, can I be exempted?” Laughing merrily, Swami said, “No, no, you

should do what is said in the chit”. Professor started singing in his coarse

voice; he was not used to singing at all, and every body started putting their

fingers into their ears, and plugging their ears so that they don’t have to

hear him. That added to the fun and frolic. Every body was reeling with

laughter.

GV: I remember Prof. Sampath telling me this story. He did it all in good

humour. He is a very sportive person; a wonderful man. So if you were to

summarise this extraordinary experience that Swami gives in Kodaikanal, how

would you do it?

AK: Well Sir, in Kodaikanal we have a number of opportunities to put any number

of questions to Bhagawan covering all topics under the sun. Boys also get

influenced by what they see. When they go out with Bhagawan, they see thousands

of devotees waiting for Him by the roadside. That is when they realise how lucky

they are! They say to themselves: “These people have been waiting since the

early hours of morning in the cold, to have just a glimpse of Bhagawan. We, on

the other hand, are all the time with Swami. We are so very fortunate.” That is

the first reaction. Number two, Swami watches a boy eating a particular item. He

sees to it that he is served extra. And how He cares for them! Swami’s

extra-ordinary concern and love naturally touch the boys, and that is what

brings about the transformation. They ask: “What shall I do in return, for

all the time He spends with me, and for all the concern, love that He shows me? How am I to repay?”

GV: What does Swami say about that?

AK: He says: “I don’t want anything from you. All I want from you is for you to

get a good name for yourself, for your parents and for your Institute - that is

the way of expressing gratitude to Bhagawan”. That is what HE says, “Do good, be

good, see good,” - that is the quintessence of His message.

GV: It is so unimaginable. This broadcast would be heard all over the world and

so literally you have brought Kodaikanal experience to thousands of people all

over the world. We are very grateful to you from Radio Sai, and we do hope we

will have more opportunities to talk to you on this subject. After your next

Kodai trip, you had better report immediately to our studio here to tell us all

about it!

AK: I eagerly look forward to that opportunity.

GV: At least for that sake, I hope you will be taken in the next trip! Thank you

very much and Sai Ram

AK: Thank you, and Sai Ram.

Sai Ram

Sent by: Ram Chugani, Kobe, Japan

Ramchand Chugani <rgcjp >

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