Guest guest Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too have souls like humans.I know this but am not able to proove it logically to one of my friends.She insists that animals do not have souls and that this is the only difference between us and them. If someone knows of a story told by Baba or any explanation regarding this,plese let me know. Thanks, RashmiRashmi Rao 001-408-2612311 (Home) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 singsong <bakulat Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:23pm Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Dear rashmi Hi! I think that animals too have souls...otherwise why do people say that you can come back as a reincarnation of animal or human? Sure, i think they have sould too....swami's story that he told...i'm afraid i don't know but would love to know! Also...is that really your phone number? lucky you...u have all baba's numbers in that...u have...23,26 and 11...date,month and year..lucky you! love bakula ---------- Ram Lakhan <ram_lakhan108 Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:47pm Animal and Human Souls/Atma AUM Sri Sai Ram Rashmi: Both Humans and Animals have Atmas/Souls for existence and when the atma/soul leaves, the body dies. The differences: Humans have awareness and the animals do not. Ram Lakhan, Canada ---------- jayant reddy <jayant_reddy2001 Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:14pm Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Hello Rashmi Sairam I tried to call you but went on answering Machine. your logical approach should be, instead of "Animals too have souls like humans" make it "Living beings have souls ". Then you will be able to convince Regards Jayant. ---------- sherry jagdeo <sherryjagdeo Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:40pm Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Sai Ram ! there's an interesting story of Paramahansa Yoganandaji and his pet deer in Autobiography of a Yogi. He became very attached to the deer and when it became sick he prayed to God to save its life. It became better but appeared to Yogananda in a dream saying ," You are holding me back, please let me go." He says "According to mass karma that guides and regulates the destinies of animals, the deer's life was over and was ready to progress to a higher form..... The soul of the deer made its plea in a dream....." ( pages 290-291) I know Swami has said alot on this toipc but i'm not sure exactly in which discourse where and when ---------- Venugopal Ramamurthy <venugopal_ramamurthy Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:44pm Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... sairam good "that I know:Animals too have souls like humans.I know this but *** sairam IF YIOU KNOW WHAT IS "SOUL" PL EXPLAIN IT THAT IT SELF PROVE THE TRUTH SO FAR I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS THE "THE MEANING OF SOUL" YET THE LOGICAL POINT"IS EVERYTHING IN THE VISIBLE OR INVISBLE COSMOS HAS A LIVING FORCE OR ENERGY" FORMS CHANGE BUT THE ENERGY REMAINS THAT MAY BE REFERRED AS SOUL SAIRAM ---------- Jatindar Shad <egreatindia Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:38pm Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Dear Rashmi, Sai Ram - interesting question. Swami said the devotees often dable at the shore and play with the waves and declare there are no pearls in the sea. Dive deep to find the pearls. Soul or Atma permeates the vast galaxy right upto Bhramloka. It is Parmatma or the Parmatma Tatwa that causes the one to be born out of the other. So we have - Earth, Water, Akasha, Surya, Chandra, Nakshtra, Deva, Indra, Prajapathi, Bhramloka. Now - look all creation has been covered in Earth Water Akasha - all humans, animals and material things - all are permeated with Parmatma. Swami says refering to Gita - "Among the Pandavas I am Dhanajaya. Among the mountains I am the Himalaya; among the rivers I am Ganga. I am the loin among the beasts, the cow, kamadhenu, among the herbivorous animals and the cobra among the snakes. So saying that Humans have soul and animals do not have souls - is grossly wrong - humans, animals and all materials are divine - look any science student knows that every matter is made up of atoms and then further each atom is made up of protons, neutrons and electrons which are moving in a specific path. Scientists were quizzed by what is the power that moves the electrons neutrons protons - now they have accepted that it is divine power that moves them. So - atma is at the root of all existence - but that cannot be called soul. Soul is a limited english word - whereas - atma is a very vast word. Sai Ram - Be Happy JP http://www.sailopics.com ---------- "Aaron Bandy" <bandy1 Thu Nov 25, 2004 0:07am Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Rashmi, If you contact me at bandy1 we can discuss your inquiry. Sai Ram, Aaron ---------- saibabanews, rashmi rao <d_rashmi27> wrote: > Sairam to all. > > I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too have souls like humans. .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Sai Ram Rashmi Let me take your little time, where large study has been made on the rationality of Animal Kingdom Hinduism is religion of millions of Gods. Yet it is based on a firm belief in the Absolute Divine-the singular force that joins all facets of existence. Most Hindus believe that the Absolute takes on many forms, however, and so worshippers pray to different Gods and Goddesses who embody the power of the Divine.In India, four out of five people are Hindu, a total of roughly 900 million devotees. A cornerstone of Indian heritage that dates back thousands of years, Hinduism is more of a culture than an organized religion. Each community has its own legends and teachings associated with the Hindu deities, including regional names for the Gods and Goddesses. Hinduism embraces diversity and encourages daily spiritual, emotional and artistic acts of devotion. Encounters with the Divine through individual worship are central to the Hindu experience. Darshan, a Sanskrit term that means "meeting God," is that moment when a devotee communes directly with the Divine. A devout Hindu may achieve darshan at home during daily private worship, when viewing a sacred sculpture carried in a procession, during a temple ritual guided by a priest, or when viewing a holy place or person. Wherever it takes place, darshan comes only to those who open their minds and spirits to the larger force of the Absolute Divine. Here as in India, Hinduism is their primary faith, but other religions, including Sikhism and Jainism, also have adherents. Many devout Indians worship every day, not necessarily in temples but at home and at work. Some pray for a day of prosperity and good business, while others seek a private moment to be in touch with the Divine. I am reminded of to bring before you the various legislation enforced by the Developed country to redress the hardship caused to the Animal Kingdom. Let us learn to take care of the weaker sector of the Lord's creation.Whilst acknowledging that religions have both positive and negative impacts on animal welfare and management, they are not substitutes for sound science. Also, the dogma that animals have 'rights' is not a fruitful one in real life wildlife management. Rather, we should consider our responsibilities towards animals. What is suffering? Suffer: 1. To undergo, endure. 1. Trans. To have (something painful, distressing or injurious) inflicted upon or imposed upon one; to submit to with pain, distress or grief. 3. Intrans. To undergo or to submit to pain, punishment or death. Given that an animal is born, then it must also die. It can meet its death in a variety of different ways, some of which are more painful than others. It might also suffer and survive. What is cruelty? Suffering refers to the experience of the prey animal and is independent of the attitude of whomever or whatever is causing the suffering. For example a driver may hit a badger on the road and cause the badger to suffer greatly. The driver's act may have varied from unwitting ness to negligence to willful cruelty. Similarly, a cat-owner, in pursuing the hobby of keeping a pet cat, is likely to cause suffering for many small animals. In this instance the owner's action is witting probably not willfully cruel, but negligent in that the owner failed to prevent it happening. The demographics of killing wildlife:- Those recreational activities in which an animal is killed by the person, e.g. shooting and fishing, tend to be done by men. There is an obvious historical precedent for this; other factors may be at work. Indirect methods of hunting in which the prey is killed by another animal, e.g. dog, cat or falcon are followed by a wider spectrum of society including a higher ratio of women and a wider range of ages. This may indicate that actually killing the prey oneself is repulsive to the squeamish and that hunting with hounds and cat keeping are recreations which are followed not for the killing, but because of other benefits. The suffering involved for example in poisoning, can be immense, but is kept out of the public eye and the public is prepared to justify it because plagues of rats and mice are intolerable. Without in any way wishing to dismiss it as inconsequential, let us leave on one side the incidental effects on non-target animals and other, 'natural' causes of death such as disease and starvation. Let us look more closely at the ways man uses to kill wild animals deliberately. We need to look into those aspects more rationally. Natural selectivity indicates that weak or infirm individuals are more likely to be caught than healthy strong ones. No selectivity indicates that prey animals are captured in about the same proportion as represented in the locality. Scenting hounds catch foxes, red deer, brown hares and mink. The deer are not normally killed by the hounds but brought to bay and shot by the huntsman. Many of the foxes ascribed to foxhounds are not killed above ground by hounds but are run to ground, located by terriers, and shot. The suffering caused to individual prey animals, it is relevant to look at the small data available with Wild Life Society. For every animal killed by hounds, cats kill about 12,600 creatures. Not only this, but cats kill in such a slow way that they have been selected as the model animal for studies of aggressive predatory behavior. Cats also put into perspective the 3 million experiments on laboratory animals each year and the 4 million migratory birds killed each year. It would be nice to have some firmer figures for these parameters, but meanwhile it is possible to make some simple, broad-brush analyses. For example, cats are responsible for about 82% of all kills. If you look at the parameter that you are interested in, such as the catch-to-kill interval, or maiming, and multiply it by the volume, you can see quite clearly where the major sources of suffering really exist. Percentage volumes of animals killed by the different methods. CAPTURE METHOD APPROX % ANNUAL VOLUME Cats 252000000 81.956 Anticoagulant poisons 20000000 6.504 Shotgun 20000000 6.504 Dead traps 10000000 3.252 Rifle 3000000 0.976 Bird ringing 660000 0.215 Strychnine 530000 0.172 Gazehounds 500000 0.163 Gassing 500000 0.163 Snares 200000 0.065 Live traps 40000 0.013 Scent hounds 20000 0.006 Terriers 15000 0.005 Ferrets 10000 0.003 Birds of Prey 6000 0.002 Angling (no data) Total 307481000 99.999 Why animals are killed Animals are usually killed because they are pests, or for food, or a recreational resource or for experimentation or combinations of these. Some, such as foxes, can be a recreational resource in one locality and a pest in another. It can be difficult to agree on what is, and what is not 'a pest.' At present it seems to be more socially acceptable to kill some pests (such as rats) with dogs than to kill other pests (such as foxes) with dogs. Rats and foxes have equally developed nervous systems, and presumably experience similar levels of pain. The movement against foxhunting therefore must hinge, not on biological grounds, but on the perception that the hunters enjoy hunting. Many of the anti-hunting organizations are funded by cat-keepers who maintain that because they do not enjoy watching their cats mauling birds, they are therefore eliminated from the charge of cruelty. But the lack of human enjoyment is not relevant to the suffering animal, whereas the negligence of the owner, in preventing it, is. Human enjoyment:- Given that one of the legally acceptable reasons for killing wild animals is as a recreational resource, and that the enjoyment is derived from the total hunting experience rather than from the kill itself, it seems logical to maximize the experience benefit and minimize the amount of suffering or kills. Is suffering acceptable? One can attempt to measure physical or mental suffering scientifically by quantifying some aspect such as blood chemistry or behavioral patterns. But what do such measurements mean? Whether the things that go on in cities are more civilized than what goes on in rural areas is a debate in itself. By ranking the measured suffering in a variety of activities one can see a spectrum of levels of suffering. Logically, at some point in this list comes the limit of social acceptability. Another route is to compare these levels of suffering with those seen in natural predation; another route is to compare these levels with other common life experiences. For example is a particular level of suffering in death better or worse than the suffering experienced during birth? How does the level of suffering in the animals deaths compare with the suffering involved in human deaths? Public attitudes- Unfortunately, few people attempt to evaluate these issues in any logical or scientific way, preferring to win hearts emotively rather than minds. The result is massive inconsistency and hypocrisy. The recent legal efforts have been made which were essentially attempts to ban hunting of mammals with dogs. Other aspects of wildlife welfare, such as poisoning, both of individual pest species such as rats, and of whole ecosystems with pesticides, have received proportionately very little public attention. Conclusion The situation in which a large proportion of the human population live in cities depending for their food supply on perhaps 5% of the population, is very artificial and unstable and in evolutionary terms, extremely recent and probably transient. Given the rate of human population growth and the massive ecological damage being inflicted on the planet, it is unlikely that the current precarious urban stability will be maintained for more than a few centuries. It is important therefore for us to develop proper wildlife management systems, to understand that our species is part of nature and not apart from nature, and to continue to use the hunting instincts which have been vital to us for millennia and could well become so again. A confrontational approach to wildlife welfare and management is sterile and unproductive. It is time for all factions to meet together and discuss ways of improving wildlife welfare and conservation benefits without destroying either our cultural heritage and individual freedoms, or the management system which has maintained wildlife in the face of increasing urban pressures. A live example is being narrated here, "When reporters asked one of the owner of an animal sanctuary, about the foot-and-mouth epidemic, "The raid on my premises minutes before 6 o'clock in the morning & there were at least 30 policemen - we've never been able to ascertain how many exactly, but there were two mini-buses full and a lot of individual cars, plus the slaughter team. They had come to kill my animals and were blocking the roads to keep the media and protesters from getting to me. It's something I'll never forget." When foot-and-mouth hit the area every one was worried about them. Cattle, sheep, goats and even alpacas on farms around Moss burn were being "culled out" by slaughter teams, and white trucks - dubbed "cull wagons" - trundled their way through the countryside carrying the bodies of tens of thousands of animals to mass burial pits and funeral pyres. Not only did veterinarian check them every day, he drew blood for testing. But Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, the then-responsible body refused to accept his samples for testing or to do any testing of their own, 'It's illegal, it's disgraceful!' In the meantime, Minister for Rural Affairs, issued a statement declaring that he was ordering an end to the automatic slaughter of animals within three kilometers of an infected premise. Moreover, in future cases, people affected would be granted a hearing. The killing of the animals was declared as unlawful under the recently passed Human Rights Act. Although the Act is passed now, but Government under pressure may reverse its present policy. Wild life society has to be vigilant all the time. In view of the above deliberation, there are common questions to be answered about the human/animal relationship, which are to addressed by humans. Domestic animals, such as cows and pigs, and laboratory rats would not exist were it not for our bringing them into existence in the first place for our purposes. So is it not the case that we are free to treat them as our resources? Rights were devised by humans. How can they even be applicable to animals? If you are in favor of abolishing the use of animals as human resources, don't you care more about animals than you do about those humans with illnesses who might possibly be cured through animal research? Isn't human use of animals a "tradition" or "natural" and, therefore, morally justified? If we did not exploit animals, we would not have society as we now know it. Does that fact not prove that animal use by humans is morally justified? Where do you draw the line on who can have rights? Do insects have rights? Do nonsentient humans, such as those who are irreversibly brain-dead, have a right not to be treated as a thing? If we become vegetarians, animals will inevitably be harmed when we plant vegetables and what is the difference between raising and killing animals for food and unintentionally killing them as part of a plant-based agriculture? Isn't taking advantage of medications or procedures developed through the use of animals inconsistent with taking an animal rights position? Is it likely that the pursuit of more "humane" animal treatment will eventually lead to the recognition that animals have the basic right not to be treated as things, and the consequent abolition of institutionalized animal use? Don't laws like the Endangered Species Act, which prohibits the killing of certain species of animals facing extinction, effectively change the property status of animals? If animals have rights, does that not mean that we would have to punish the killing of animals in the same way we do the killing of a human? If animals have rights, doesn't that mean we have to intervene to stop animals from killing other animals, or that we must otherwise act affirmatively to prevent harm from coming to animals from any source? Isn't the matter of whether animals ought to be accorded the basic right not to be treated as our resources a matter of opinion? What right does anyone have to say that another should not eat meat or other animal products, or how they should otherwise use or treat animals? Doesn't the animal rights position represent a "religious" view? Now it is for each individual to bring his or her own thought level and draw the conclusion to your own requirementsas per the experience gained by him or her in life.. Om Sai Ram- nimano fakir saibabanews, rashmi rao <d_rashmi27> wrote: > Sairam to all. > > I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too > have souls like humans. .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 aviva maxwell <sailuvnow Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:35am Re: [saibabanews] Can someone please tell me.... Sai Ram Sweetness, There are many stories of Babas' Love for animals On one occaision He went to a village and settled into the chair provided for Him, the villagers standing around; at that moment a poor old village dog walked straight up to Baba before anyone could stop him, and laying his head on Babas' lap, looking up at Baba------ passed peacefully away. "That dog was a PURE SOUL" Baba is recorded as saying. Honestly I could write you so many instances...and have personally heard it from his lips many times in the years I've been at Puttaparti.... Witnessed many times His Love for His PUREST souls, our animal brethren Best wishes Aviva and Family ---------- Venugopal Ramamurthy <venugopal_ramamurthy Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:20am Re: [saibabanews] Re: Can someone please tell me.... SAIRAM THANKS TO THIS SAI FORUM THAT GIVES US OPPORTUNITY TO FREELY INTERACT SAIRAM TO YOU IF YIOU KNOW WHAT IS "SOUL" PL EXPLAIN IT SOUL IS SINGULAR OR PLURAL [ATMAS / SOULS IS SECONDARY] IF SOME ONE COULD DEFINE OR PASS ON THE UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS SOUL THEN THAT IT SELF WILL PROVE THE TRUTH SO FAR I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS THE "THE MEANING OF SOUL" OR UNDERSTOOD WHAT EXACTLY EACH ONE OF SAI GROUP REFER . I OBSERVE EACH OF US HAVE CONVNIENTLY USED THE FOLLOWING SOUL, ATMA, THE FIVE BASIC ELEMENTS ATOMIC STRUCTURE LIMITED AND VASTNESS LETS BE MORE INTERACTVE AND PRAY SWAMY SAIRAM ---------- "Wade Miller-knight" <petroc Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:55am Re: D Rashmi ~ Digest Number 534[saibabanews] It may be easier to understand by saying that we all ARE souls and HAVE bodies. Each soul (OK, atma) is the emanation of God and takes a vast number of births. At a certain stage in its evolution, a soul takes a succession of animal bodies. In time it progresses to the human state. It then has a number of human births before it is ready for an avatar to lead it to final liberation and the end of the cycle of births and deaths. Wade > saibabanews, rashmi rao <d_rashmi27> > wrote: > > Sairam to all. > > > > I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too > have souls like humans. .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Baba has given many examples about the soul (it is Atma in our language). He says we are really spiritual beings having a physical experience. The raw material for the entire creation is the Super Soul or Param Atma itself, which permeates everything. Thus the soul is everywhere. A saying goes somewhat like this, God sleeps in stone (inert matter), awakens in trees and plants, moves around in animals and is fully alive in humans. The soul is like the electric current that gives life to the equipment like fan, light, AC, fridge, microwave etc. The equipment is different and serves different purposes, but the power that makes them work is the same. Without that power, they are useless and dead. It is the same with all living beings. We have different forms, purposes and lead our own individual lives. But what is powering these machines (bodies) is the current called Atma or soul. That is our real nature. Take it away and all these machines turn to dust. It is just the extent of awareness (of atma) that distinguishes humans from animals. We have the power of Buddhi (intellect), to discriminate, analyse, reason which makes us superior to the rest of creation, hence we are called the crown or apex of creation. (How we misuse and mis-behave with this power is another story). Animals behave in an instinctive manner. They are sort of pre-programmed. Human has the power of choice at every stage. For ex., if you irritate a dog, it will attack and bite, instinctively. However, a human, however much irritated, has the power to retaliate or not. That is the sign of evolution. Of course, some humans might behave worse than dogs , but it is their choice, not instinct. In Hinduism we believe in re-incarnation. That the atma changes its covering (body) for countless life times, for its own experience and evolution, till it reaches self-realization. These births could be in human or in any other form. hence, if it is an animal form, the soul it still is, in a more dormant state. Baba used to have two pet (pomeranian) dogs called Jack and Jill. They were very attached to Him and Swami also gave them a little more attention and love. It seems they used to accompany Him to his bedroom and sleep at His bedside, one near the foot and another near the head. They lived with Him for a few years. One day, Jack was run over by a car and his back was broken. He somehow crawled to Baba's presence and gave up his life at Baba's feet. Jill, agonized for a week, pining for the dead Jack, and then she too died. Baba took care till the end and gave them decent burials. People used to wonder why Baba gave them such special attention. Then, Swami explained that they were the reincarnated souls of his old classmates. During Baba's childhood days, he had two class mates, Ramesh and Suresh, who were his bench-mates. They were extremely attached to Him and could not bear the separation when Baba left the school and began His Divine Mission. Later they both died, their yearning unsatisfied. Baba said that they were re-born as the two dogs who fulfilled their desire to be close to Him and left when that desire was satisfied. Baba cares a lot, not only for pets like Sai Geeta the elephant, but for all animals in general. There is an instance when after a long stay at Horsley hills, Baba and His party were returning back to Bangalore. As every one prepared to leave and boarded the cars, Baba suddenly went back. When the devotees followed Him to see where he went, He went to a buffalo that was tied to a post, lovingly patted it and fed it some hay etc. and said some words to it and came back. When asked, He said that this poor soul (buffalo) had trudged up and down the hills many times a day, fetching drinking water for them. Therefore, Baba, who is all compassion, went to express His gratitude to it for a job well done.... There are many such similar instances when Baba has demonstrated His love for all of creation and the underlying fact that every being has a soul (rather, to put it more correctly, is a soul in a different garb)..from the smallest worm to the mighty human. Isa (Sai) vasyam idham sarvan. Lokas Samastha Sukhinobhavantu. Hope this is of some help in your quest. Madhusudhan rashmi rao <d_rashmi27 > wrote: Sairam to all. I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too have souls like humans.I know this but am not able to proove it logically to one of my friends........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Venugopal Ramamurthy <venugopal_ramamurthy Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:12pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Can someone please tell me.... sairam to you SAIRAM MAXWELL That dog was a PURE SOUL" Baba is recorded as saying. Honestly I could write you so many instances...and have personally heard it from his lips many times I ENJOY THE INTERACTIVE FORUM AND THANK SWAMY FOR INITIATING SUCH EXCHANGES, KEEPS OUR THOUGHTS AND IMAGINATIONS WITH SWAMY. YOU HAVE MENTIONED "THE WORDS USED BY SWAMY" NICE , I THANK YOU "I WANTED "WHAT DO WE UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD SOUL LEAVE ALONE IF THERE IS ONE SOUL OR MANYSOULS " DEAR SAIRAM Wade Miller-knight" petroc NICE YOU HAVE USED THE WORDS "NUMBER OF BIRTHS", LIBERATIONS the end of the cycle of births and deaths. HOW SURE WE ARE THAT LIBERATION MEANS END OF BIRTH AND DEATH CYCLES SAIRAM ---------- Venugopal Ramamurthy <venugopal_ramamurthy Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:04pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Can someone please tell me.... SAIRAM TO YOU FRIEND AFTER LONG TIME SUCH A GOOD MAIL THANKS I ALSO SAW YOUR OTHER MAIL THE FOLLOWING IS THE RIGHT WAY TO EXPRESS for each individual to bring his or her own thought level and draw the conclusion to your own requirementsas per the experience gained by him or her in life.. Om Sai Ram- nimano fakir It was in the 15th Century, when the Hindus were steeped in orthodoxy of being trapped in outward practices of rites & rituals & the Kings of Northern India were fighting among themselves & the Mughals took the advantage, attacked the country & became rulers of India. It was at this crucial time in the history of Bharat that Sri Guru Nanak took birth. TRUTH is the essence of all religions. The Absolute Truth being infinite, it cannot be defined through words or concepts, which are relative & limited, according to one's own concept & understanding. However, efforts are being made by all concerned to communicate & capitulate the Absolute Truth to reach the understanding of the common man. The Guru Granth Sahib :- Like the Bible of Christianity, the Vedas of Hinduism or the Koran of Islam, the Guru Granth Sahib, also known as the Adi Granth, is the main scripture of Sikhism. Compared to other religions, Sikhism is a religion of recent origin, founded in the 15th Century AD by its founder Sri Guru Nanak. Although like Islam it believes in the oneness of God and is opposed to idol worship, in many respects it is an offshoot of Hinduism and is much closer to Hinduism. It evolved primarily out of Hinduism, in line with the Bhakti marg or the devotional path of Hinduism, as a kind of reform movement In many respects, it is much more closer to Hinduism than either Buddhism or Jainism and unlike the latter it maintained a very healthy relationship with Hinduism throughout. The recorded world HISTORY IS ONLY 5300 YREARS.as you said all the "Hebrews., hindus, budism, and so on all suddenly sprang up just around the same time , copying each other and laying down DOS AND DONTS, MORES AND TABOOS AND SO ON JUST WHAT THEY THOUGHT GOOD OR BAD, WRONG OR RIGHT SUITING TO HUMAN BEINGS TO CONDUCT HIS WAY OF LIFE " AS THE TIME PASSED THEY ALL UNDERWENT METAMORPHIC CHANGES, LATER CAME ISLAM AND OTHER The Guru Granth Sahib can be truly called the essence of all religions, since it contains hymns and verses from many sacred books of various religions and sects of Hinduism USING THE WORD RELIGION FOR CONVENIENCE, MANY DIRECTIONS WERE GIVEN BUT NEVER FULLY OR PARTIALLY FOLLOWED BY FELLOW BEINGS "But this body does not exist in dream or deep sleep" WE BECAME BODY CONSCIOUS our own false identification with this limited nature as the Atma, which is Ajuni, unborn, is freed from the cycle of birth & death Even if I knew Him and all His glories, still I would never be able to describe Him do not wait for any auspicious day, because all days are auspicious. The grace of Lord or Guru is ever with us. Chant, reflect, understand, contemplate, meditate & realize. Sri Guru Nanak Devji completes the Japji with the message.(38 pauree). THANKS FOR THE MAIL GURU GRANTH SAHIB EYE OPENER AGAIN ---------- "Jeremy Kesselman" <omjeremy Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:23pm RE: [saibabanews] Re: Can someone please tell me.... Please pardon me if anyone has already mentioned this, but a story comes to mind about Swami's childhood classmates Ramesh and Suresh. Both of them passed away young and were reborn as two dogs (Jack and Jill) just to remain in close proximity with Swami. If Ramesh and Suresh were able to be reborn as animals, then animals must have souls. You can refer to the whole discourse where Swami spoke about this at: http://www.sssbpt.info/ssspeaks/volume35/sss35-17.pdf . An excerpt from that discourse is as follows: On October 20, 2002 Swami said: When I came to Puttaparthi, Karanam Subbamma gave one acre of land near Sathyabhama temple where a small house was built. There I used to live. The same Ramesh and Suresh were born again as two puppies, and came to Me. The sister of Mysore Maharaja named them Jack and Jill. They were always with Me. One day the Maharani of Mysore came to have My Darshan. She was a great devotee and a highly orthodox woman. She would perform Puja with flowers everyday. She would personally pluck the flowers after sanctifying the plants by sprinkling water and milk. As there were no proper roads to Puttaparthi, she alighted from the car at Karnatakanagepalli and walked the rest of the distance to Old Mandir. There used to be a small shed where the Pedda Venkama Raju Kalyana Mandapam stands now. The Maharani decided to rest for the night in the Mandir. The driver had his dinner and was returning to Karnatakanagepalli where the car was parked. I told Jack to accompany the driver and show him the way. Jack walked in the front and the driver followed. Jack slept under the car. Next morning, the driver started the car not knowing that Jack was sleeping under it. The wheel of the car ran over the back of Jack and its backbone broke. Jack dragged itself across the river, wailing all the while. A washerman named Subbanna used to take care of the Old Mandir day and night. He was very loyal and considered Swami as his very life. He came running to Me and said, "Swami, Jack might have met with an accident. It is coming wailing in pain. I came out at once. Jack came close to Me, wailing loudly, fell at My feet and breathed its last. It was buried behind the Old Mandir and a brindavanam was erected. As per My instructions, it was built by the side, not at the centre. I told there should be a place for another samadhi. As Jack had passed away, Jill stopped eating food and died after a few days. It was also buried by the side of Jack's samadhi. In this manner, Ramesh and Suresh did penance to be with Me. Even after their death, they took birth as dogs to be with Me. -end quote- Also, once Swami was in Brindavan in his quarters after evening Darshan. Normally after this time, when Swami goes to his quarters, he doesn't come back out. One time, though, Swami came out and was walking quite briskly to where the pet deer were staying. It turns out that one of the deer was about to die and he/she wanted the Lord's darshan before passing on. Swami heard the call and came to the deer and give the deer water from His hand. Consequently, the deer merged with Swami. (I don't have a source from this story off hand, but I could try to find it if you want. I believe it is from a book by Hislop.) Finally, from the highest level, divinity is all there is and is all pervasive. Thinking that one thing is not divine and another is divine is but Maya, seeing multiplicity where there is only One. Not only do animals have a soul, but everything has a soul. Everything is pervaded by consciousness. Even this table's essence is God! This really brings ahimsa or non-violence to another level when we recognize the true omnipresence of God. May we all be constantly aware of this, with Swami's grace. Wishing everyone a holy and grateful Thanksgiving, With Love, Jeremy ---------- Hans H <mithuna1 Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:26am Re: [saibabanews] Re: Can someone please tell me.... Sai Ram When I was visiting Prasanthi Nilayam last year after an 8 year's period , I was astonished to find many dogs straying about within the ashram precincts. Can anyone tell me - is there a special reason for that - and who is caring for this dogs, when the ashram is (more or less) closed down during Baba's stay in Whitefield or elsewhere outside Puttaparthi ? Thank you Hans > > saibabanews, rashmi rao <d_rashmi27> > > wrote: > > > Sairam to all. > > > > > > I need a logical explanation of the fact that I know:Animals too > > have souls like humans. .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Sairam to All I thank you all for your promt response.I have now understood how to make my friend convinced that animals do have souls.She does not belive in swami's this form though she is a stoeng believer of God.I once again thank everyone in the group to be so prompt and enthusiastic to help me.This was my first participation in the group.I am highly satisfied with the answers. Let me end my mail with a small prayer:May Baba remove all the doubts from the hearts of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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