Guest guest Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Sairam Brothers & Sisters, Kindly provide information / clarifications on the following: Are there Jeevan Mukta (living Self Realized Souls) in our Sai fold? Are there any articles on thier experiences? Is it possible to achieve Jeevan Mukti, without doing the long and secluded penance as were done by Buddha, Adi Shankara, Ramakrishna Parahamsa, Ramana Maharshi and other well known sages? If yes, why did they all take the difficult path? What are our Bhagwan's guidelines to sadhakas seeking Jeevan Mukti? In Chinmaya or Mata Amritandamayi Ashrams, Brahmacharis are given spiritual training as stipulated in Hindu scriptures with an aim achieving Jeevan Mukti. Is such a dedicated training required to achieve the goal or not? Would be obliged for some detailed information, with back up articles. Jai Sairam Sasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Venugopal Ramamurthy <venugopal_ramamurthy Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:02pm Re: [saibabanews] Some Doubts on Self Realization SAIRAM SELF, CREATION AND CREATOR ARE UNDEFINABLE AND LEAST COMPREHENDABLE WORDS TO THE ORDINARY HUMAN BEINGS SOME OF THE RECENT WORDS IN MAILS ABOUT LIBERATION Some recent mails : People aspire for Mukthi (liberation). They have no idea what constitutes liberation. Man seeks liberation from the maladies of the body, the senses, the mind, the intellect and the Antahkarana (internal motivator). All these are no doubt necessary, but liberation in the ultimate sense consists in liberation from the cycle of birth and death. This means that one should redeem one's present life so that one is free from rebirth. Mind is responsible for one's bondage as well as liberation. If man follows the dictates of the mind, he becomes worse than an animal and ultimately ruins his life. His life will be sanctified only when he follows the dictates of Buddhi (intellect). He who goes by the vagaries of the mind cannot attain true happiness. So, first and foremost, man should make his mind steady and sacred. Before undertaking any activity, he should discriminate whether it is good or bad, right or wrong SCRIPTURES, DICOURSES, LIFE MESSAGES OF VARIOUS INCARNATIONS, PROHETS, SAINTS SPIRTUAL LEADERS COULD NEVER PASS ON THE MEANING OF THE SAME TO THE ORDINARY HUMAN UNDERSTANDING SO FAR. HOW EVER SWAMY HAS REFERRED FEW WORDS WHICH I TRY TO REPHRASE IN the following : Liberation is not do with birth and death cycles or what so ever. LIBERATION: "JUST AWARENESS: THAT THE SELF IS JUST A PART OF ENTIRE WHOLE" NOTHING PERMANENT AND WE ARE NOT THE DOERS' I REPEAT " THE AWRENESS AND ACCEPTANCE OF TRUTH THAT ALL ARE ILLUSIONS AND WE ONLY A SMALL PART" ITSELF IS THE LIBERATION, WHICH WILL MOULD OUR THIS LIFE IN TO THE RIGHT PATH. SAIRAM ---------- "Akula, Krishna" <krishna.akula Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:50pm Re: [saibabanews] Some Doubts on Self Realization My grandma and her father have attained self realization and although i havent known her for that long just 13 yrs of my life all i can say is that people are born in this world and not everyone ends up being like Parmahansa Yoganada or Sri Ramakrishna or even Sarada Devi. Each and everyone of them have a purpose. I feel and believe my grandmother's purpose was to demonstrate to everyone that you can be a simple uneducated person caught up in a married life with the worries of a normal householder and yet attain self realization. its not just me but my mother or my grandfather or anyone for that matter has never seen her say a word against another person or hit anyone or yell at anyone or even grumble when in incredible pain (when she underwent surgery). As for her grandmother's father he was a divine soul too.. although he never said much about himself i know one thing that is : every morning Sarada Devi used to wake him up. So in response.. whatever you are undergoing whatever problem it is however huge it may be..it is for our good because the more problems you are confronted with the more karma you are getting rid off and as you walk on your path to self realization its common to get these doubts but the main point is that you continue walking on that path! Oh i think i forgot to mention that my grandmother and her family are sai baba devotees. Ok as for Buddha , Sri Adi Shankara and Ramakrishna they were all incarnations of God! They were all born in this world for a very specific purpose. Sri Ramakrishna was born to reinstill people's faith in idols when they percieved idols as just a piece of stone! Yogananda was born to help spread the knowledge of spirituality to the west which was extremely important because if it wasnt for that book "autobiography of a Yogi" i dont think my faith would have lasted long in hinduism especially since i have grown up in the west. You and me i believe are mere mortals asking God to help us attain self realization unless ofcourse the people reading this are already there or are significant people. Ok there aremany paths and each spiritual leader was born to demonstrate that whatever path you take be comfortable with it..if ur ok with abandoning your tv..news..politics etc and live in himalyas to their code of conduct go for it! As far as i'm aware i believe that Sai baba also reinforces this idea: if ur a christian read ur bible get down on ur knees and pray... ifur a hindu go meditate..if ur a muslim pray (sorry dont know how many times they pray). So i guess its more do ur wordly duties live by the ten commandments and have faith in God. I believe if you can do that you'll be there! Its that necessary to become a brahmachari because even if ur married the essence is you dont sleep with ur partner for fun but the sole purpose to getting a child. I believe Yogananda's mother said to her daughter: " your father and I sleep once a year "...and the purpose if to concieve. SO you dont need to be a brahmachari but must follow the essence of giving up greed, lust, etc etc... lol i'm sorry i cannot give you back up articles. All i can say is whatever doubt you have either read: 1) AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A YOGI- it is like a novel and by the end of it i guarantee you ..that you will be inspired to lead a better life and your doubts will also be answered.THERE ARE ONLINE EDITIONS WHICH ARE FREE. 2)BIOGRAPHY OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA OR VIVEKANANDA OR THE GOSPEL OF RAMAKRISHNA the biographies you get get online. if you want biography of vivekanada i've got an online version i can send it to you. sri ramakrishna said in the gospel.... if there is a puddle of water, you can drink / access water from the top. if you dig deeper the water becomes muddy and you will not be able to drink from it! meaning if you pray to god and just simply do ur work and live a virtious life then all will be good..u'll climb the ladder to self realization step by step. If you dig deeper in hope to clarify ALL your doubts.. you'll be led astray because many things you will not know how to interpret! well this was the longest mail i've written. if you're still dubious just do what i do. pray to go earnestly show me the way. When my fellow classmate said hinduism is bullshit u got way too many gods who is the real one and started her interrogation. then and therer i just closed my eyes and said baba help me! guruji (my guru) please show me the answers and i tell you the day after someone posted a site on hinduism in the ramakrishna group which held all the answers to my prayers. so just close ur eyes and ask god to show you the way! Because even tho one's eyes are closed to the answer that lies in front of them, god will open their eyes. goodluck i hope my long mail has been of some help to you! Priyanka ---------- Vikas Kakkar <EFVIKAS Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:29am Re: [saibabanews] Some Doubts on Self Realization Sai Ram Dear Brother, I can't answer all your questions, but based on what little I know of Swami's teachings, I can say the following. First, it is certainly not necessary to be formally trained as a Swami/Brahmachaari as in the Chinmaya Ashram or any other Ashram. Self-Realization is the birth right of all human beings and Swami has Himself given numerous examples from our Scriptures of householders achieving Self-Realization. Kabir, for instance, was a tailor and Sant Gora Kumbhar a potter. Ramana Maharishi did not do any elaborate penance. At the age of 17 or 18, he underwent a death-like experience which led to Self Realization. He did not have any (human) Guru in His incarnation as Ramana Maharishi at all. Ramakrishana Paramahamsa did practise intense austerities for several years, but he explained later that this was not His own benefit but to help create evolutionary energy for the spiritual upliftment of the world. There are infinitely many paths leading to the same goal, and the right path for each person and how much effort they need to put in depends on their past karmas which shape their personality. Swami emphasizes Naamasmarana as the safest, easiest and most direct path to Self-Realization. Other practises require the supervision of a (human) Guru, who may not be easy to find in this day and age. He has also said that when God Himself has come down to earth to guide people, the best sadhana is to follow His teachings and do what He says. Avataar's do not prescribe mantras -- Lord Krishna just told Arjuna, do this, do that, and those actions were very powerful and effective. Hope this helps. Sai Ram, Vikas ---------- satvinder ahluwalia <s.walia Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:48am Re: [saibabanews] Some Doubts on Self Realization Dear Sai Brother, Yes there are realised souls living and able to communicate there experiences and teach about attainment of God realisation. If you wish I could first ask the one I know before I send you details. Thanks SAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Soumendra Bhattacharjee <soumendra_toronto Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:04pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization Sai Ram All , Sister Priyanka,Brother Venu ,Brother Vikas has conveyed elaborately about Self realization but what Sister Priyanka said I agree 100% as she said close your eyes and pray to lord Sai He will show you the way.This is very interesting topic as Brother Sasi mentioned is there any self realized souls among Sai devotees -well that would be very interesting too, as far as I know self realized soul dont come into limelight as they lead a very secluded life, again I might be wrong. I think all spiritual aspirants(sai) must communicate so in this journey we dont falter as Swami himself said He will not rest until we all are saved. Sai Ram Soumendra ---------- Rajani <rajanimohan Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:34pm Re: [saibabanews] Some Doubts on Self Realization Sai Ram Dears, This is very nice topic. I too would like to know the qualities of a realized person and how to achieve it.(i know, it is not easy) According to Geetha, realized persons should see no difference between a learned and a dog eating person. (Vidya Vinaya Sampanne Brahmane gavi hastini ...) Cold and heat should be the same for them etc. etc. Full of peace and love. I have questions on how to achive self-realization. What are the experiences of realization? Must be Bliss. I have cousins and friends practicing Yoga, Meditation different paths to realization. They say that Mediation is very peaceful. In pranayama, they could see light between eye brows (ajna chakra). But that is only during mediatation or yoga. But other times they are quite normal, expressing/doing both positive and negative. My other friend says that her sahasrara (sahaja yoga) is open and she could feel air going from top of her head. Other times, she is quite normal like any one of us. (thinking/doing negative). I am very much confused with this. I totally believe in what they are saying. But is it enough? Is it total self-realization ? But it is not love all - serve all. You still have your negative with you? Can this be called self-realization? What is complete self-realization? How to achive it. It would be of great help if any one could explain this. Baba says meditation is the connecting tool between atma and paramatma. (Japa Dhyana bina samyoga nahi). I strongly believe that there are most learned or realized persons in this group (they dont talk much). Please guide us. Thank you so much. Sai Ram Rajani. ---------- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:17pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization Sairam.regarding doubts on self realisation much depends on the past Karmic effects.first that shuld be suffered or enjoyed depending on the accumulated merits or demerits over the past lives.A person can become a realised sould only if he or she follows absolute discipline and there are various ways for attaining realisation,.But the fact is it only thru yogic practices by raising Kundalini power which lies dormant in all beings.This has to be done under a Grand Master or Guru who himself has attained the same.The Kundalini power when it pierces thru the various chakras or phlexes which cant be seen by laboratory equipments but all are hidden and by raising the power and pasing the same thru Ida,Pingala nadis and by constant practice over years when the Power reaches Sahasrara chakra on the head then one becomes merged with the supreme reality.That is the correct realisation.There no duality can be found but only the Samadhi Bliss of I ness not the body but the mind consciouness which envelops the entire Universe and there is nothing except absolute bliss.sat chit ananada.For such persons there wont be any interest inmaterial matters,no attachmets and HE finds only His Atman pervades everywhere.Adept people can go on samathy and enjoy the bliss and come back to this mundane world.They wont talk much.NO upadesas as far as they are concerned there is no duality but oneness only.Only if any person attains such a position where all siddhic powers are his which if he wants the person can use for the welfare of the humanity and to raise the level of consciousness of all to his position.Till such a time whatever one says about realisation is only wishful imagination as spiritual domain is entirely different from materialistic world though they are interlinked.A realised sould wont sleep,wont take any food,may take some liquid things as the amrita that lies in Agna chakra provides them enough energy.All people like Sri Ramakrishna,Ramana,Arabinda Ghosh ete etc have the experiences of that.The reality is those who have realised the supreme reality never says to others that they are realised people but encourage others to go in their chosen path as the way is full of thorns and not a bed of roses.Yogananda too in his Autobiography of a Yogi insists the same.Sir John Woodroff also have the same experienec and he has written lovely books on Serpant Power. So it is not easy to attain such a stage in one birth.hence it is suggested to do nama smarana as that is the thing which can clean ines mind and make a person dwell on Godly thoughts and by meditation and other spiritual practices he can slowly move his inner mind upwards.But consistency ,discipline are very essential for this.It cant be purchased in a shop.For realisation one has to toil and experience the same inwardly and cant be achieved by reciting mantras,reading books etc.It is absolutely ones own experience.That may vary from person to person.some people after they have achieved certain stages when they get some siddhis falsely believe that the thing is realisation.Not this,not this in such a way one has to go on in this realm without botherig about siddhis which will come automatically when the Power moves upwards towards Sahasrara.The acide test is when they have reached the final stage they encounter nothing but a void and vaccum and dont have any body sense but only the feeling that I ,I,I everywhere and absolute consciousness.I have been fortunate enough to meet such a realised soul years back who is no more in physical frame and the particular Divine Soul taught me about these matters.If the same is to be explained that may take hours and hence I have given only a gist of what I have learnt.We can try to uplife our dormant powers but that requires tremendous will power and that is what Baba neans when he says that HE knows that HE is God and we dont know the same and the difference between us and HIM.sairam. Lovingly, agraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hi Sasi, As for As I know,Jeevan mukthi means Liberation from cravings & attachments which causes us to revolve around birth & death. Basically it involves, detachment from all the mental conditionings & desires &attachments . But when you know the reality of your own self & reality of divine Consiousness ( Supreme Divine Principle) and understand that you are not the body, mind & intellect, eventually you will awaken to the reality which burns out all the ignorant cravings which is root causes of the birth & death. So It is irrevelant what body does, where it lives, most important thing is to understand we are not body & lose the body /ego consiousness We have to detach ourself from body & small self and witness the activities. Then we will dwell in perpetual state of bliss and unmoved by petty small ignorant cravings & emotions. That is called Jeevan mukthi. That is the inner teachings of Swami. regards Suren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 It is all nice things to tell this and that from books or by saying that Swami says this and that but in actual practice does any one really know what is self realisation,the impact of the same on ones mental and physical nature.It is a great thing to dwell on the subject by saying one shuld not hv any attachment and suppress the ego.But how many people can do that?People who harp on Swamis messages do they really practice the same to their consciousness.Nobody knows what is self realisation and what is the meaning of merging the individual mind with the Universal mind.Only people following great austerities I dont mean fasting and all such things but by doing constant practice in meditation,and other spiritual practices,having no desire for the fruits of the work done by them,their minds always dwell on the Primal Energy,doing good to others to the best of their ability always thinking that they are only tools in HIS hands,doing their duty without bias and have a clean mind which is not polluted by jealousy,anger and such baser nature can realise the Supreme Being.But after they have merged with the Great Reality they wont have much interest in other things as they know that each individual has to attain the bliss they enjoy by his own efforts.there is no shortcut for this. How will one know that he has reached that stage.It can be only by experience.When that experience he cant explain that to anybody as what he says will be anybodys comprehension,I mean ordinary people who have not advanced in this realm but can give guidance and correct them.Apart from that what is the fun if everybody starts such a course then how the world will move on.So God has purposely created the sense of ego,angriness,jealousy,lust for material things so as to wean away individual souls from reaching great heights in His scheme of things.The Supreme Lord in HIS or HER(nobody knows whether God is a male,female or neither as afterall all are play things for the Supreme Being just like dolls for children) will created laws of nature called Karmas and what one do whether animate or inanimate things has to suffer the results of its action.For every action there is equivalent reaction.No doubt about that.That is why we find such disparity in this world or Universe.The Supreme has created the entire cosmos in certain arithmetical accuracy as for exapmple our earth and the planets are rotating Sun in a definite way that they are neither allowed to move from that path for the past crores of years as any change would create great disturbance everywhere.All are done with such precision.Only man is trying to change all these and the effects he suffers.So unless and until man controls his inner mind and create love and affection towards all beings and have the feeling of presence of GOD everywhere and surrender to HIM and not pray for this and that material things there is no hope for any normal being to realise the grteatness of Lord or the so called Self Realisation.With the life moving so fast how many people have the patience to do all these when the entire aim is material comfort where is the time for the human being to dedicate himself or herself to the upliftment of his or her soul.May be a negligible percentage of less than one may choose such a path in a billion people.Only for them the world survives because of their faith and their prayers the Supreme protects other beings.So before embarking on a delicate subject like self realisation and their methods first one has to clean the mind of all dirts and try to understand the reality.Baba suggest bhajans and namasmarana are the ways to self realisation.Unless He says at least that people wont even do that.By promising realisation by such things He is in fact guiding the people to first clean their minds.In a polluted mind nothing will stand.So I feel literally taking Babas sayings that nama smarana and doing bhajans will take one to Realisation is not in order as He never means that.He only gives some encouragement to at least some to move on the path of spitituality.That is all.So self realisation isnot something that one can purchase in a shop but only by going lot of efforts over so any births and when the cycle of births and deaths are over then only the real Realisation will come.otherwise whatever is attempted and found are only mirage.An ardent devotee can understand what Baba means when He says that He knows He is God and He also says that all are Gods that dose not mean that one has become God instantly but by doing lot of practices.Baba only suggests.It is just like child trying to swim,then trying to sit and get uo and walk all the child hasd to do by its own efforts.But others can give encouragement to the child to try again and again and ultimately the child succeeds in each step.Spiritualism and self realisation are also like that.There will be lot of hurdles and one shuld have the will to proceed without fear to reach the ultimate stage.Other thinsg are nothinng but shibbolets.sairam. Lovingly in Sai, agraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Sai Ram Brother Raman , I want to narrate one story it is from Vivekananda- Once two spiritual aspirants were meditating under a banyan tree, a holy monk who was passing by took keen interest on them.Now when the aspirants saw this holy monk they were overjoyed ,and they wanted to know right away when will they get liberation? Holy monk took pity on them and said that they have to take birth as long as number of leaves on the banyan tree.This hit one of the aspirant and he just blew up and exclaimed-"This is ridiculous so many births I have to take for liberation-why? Now the other one replied with great enthusiastic voice - "OH! that is great at least I will be liberated- thank god ".Holy monk was pleased with his reply and said that you will be liberated soon as you have enthusiasm and this will lead you to reach your goal soon. So as long as we have enthusiasm and interest we can reach our destination. I quote Swami as he said "Purity of heart and one pointed devotion anything can be achieved in this world". Sai Ram Soumendra GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Hi Surendar,Sai sisters and brothers,I am trying to attempt to express my view on te above subject to the best of m,y views.May be I am wrong or right that can be decided by Lord only.An attempt on this direction is not such a bad thing I feel. .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 "crishnantv" <crishnantv Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:58:08 +0530 self realisation, holy men Sairam, this is for our Sai brother Ganapathyraman, my pranams to you dear Saibrother.we did exchange views on astrology a few days before. Let me highlight certain very fundamental aspects of Self realisation , the path to self realisation and who they are,- the qualified, the acknowledged - self realised souls. These aspects have been debated and concluded by our ancient sages , and therefore their conclusions their acceptance , stand even today as testimony to these spiritual inquiries. I do feel nice you have brought in this topic. we all know, the great Sage Narada.- His Biodata reads - born to a very poor servant maid - as achild, wandered in the company of sages , as advised by His mother , learned and mastered all vedas, and wrote commentories, holds permanent entry pass to enter , Vaikuntam , Kailas or Brahmaloka, superb musician , A Globe trotter, A Chiranjeevi who forever is permanent witness to all the Divine Leelas Avtar after Avtar, highly respected , in all high places, for His constructive criticisms-His Biodata runs thus. He once had a feeling that He is the best self realised soul, after all he has dedicated his entire life , had the best spiritual company of evolved souls and above all , The Lord, accepted Him- whatmore is required- Thus His feelings took shape. Lord Krishna who was reading Narada's mind just opened the Topic to Narada. Oh beloved Sage , you are a Great visionary , a pure and evolved soul. i would like you to go down to earth and meet one of My people. Narada was immensely happy that Lord has chosen Him to Go on official duty on His Majesty's Divine Secret Service. Making a safe Landing on planet earth, Narada proceeded to meet Whom Lord had acknowledged as His. He was looking for a sage like Himself highely knowledgeble and with all right contacts at all Divine places. However, the address led him to a small hut Narada was a bit hesitant if this was the correct address Lord refered Him to. Lord doesnt make mistake He knew so he knocked at the door. Was greeted by a simple house wife.She was very happy Lord had deputed Narada to her small hut. After greeting Narada , Narada observed , she was also busy occupied with her household chores she proceeded to make chappathis , then went on to give bath to her little son then , dressed up her son for school, Narada was observing , then got busy to prepare food for Narada. In between she had give food to the cow ,feed the calf, clean thecow shed etc etc. Narada was getting little impatient- where is time for this lady for doing Pooja chanting learning spirtual descipline. How can Lord choose this simple woman ?? thus His thoughts drifted. Getting more restless to get the answer He very politely opened the Topic Respected amma, do you get time to think about Lord with all your domestic preoccupations. Oh yes she replied- when i give bath to my son i visualise i am giving bath to the Litttle Krishna. i make chappathis chanting His name and cook as an offering for Him. I wash the cow and clean the shed singing His songs , - whatever i do i always do as an offering to our Beloved Lord.This gives me the eternal Bliss. Narada was totally bowledover at the Devotion of this simple Housewife and how beautifully She has evolved Herself amidst her daily routines. And above all, The Lord had acknowledged Her devotion as a Benchmark. Oh learned Sage she continued, having come all the way here at the behest of the Lord please do not miss the opportunity, to meet a very evolved person living at a secluded corner of our town. Narada was extremely curious to meet this person. so he hurried to meet this person recommended by Lords Devotee.Soon He entered a very Dirty street and at the corner was a butcher's shop. Very very reluctantly and with caution Narada approached the Butcher , who had a very sharp knife in his hand.Obviously Narada was frightened. The Butcher turned out to be a very humble person. Oh beloved Sage, we feel honoured to receive you- Again Narada's curiosity overtook Him. Can a butcher , who kills innocent animals be an evolved to person , to earn the respect of Lord's Grace. Like the simple house wife , the Butcher also was always in contemplation of the lord and had absolutely no trace of ego. He was very contented , did not decry or belittle his profession was honest and always was in perfect harmony with nature. Narada found in this man , a very very evolved soul. Narada felt very Humbled and realised what it really needs to realise HIm was pure unblemished love/ devotion This was a very beautiful episode thro which our Lord demonstrated to the world , what it needs to *realise*.* HIM. *In Kaliyuga, any ordinary mortal is eligible to realise God who is in HIM, and who is also activating in everyone, the Same Divine Spark. Just imagine , say , if the qualification is , keeping awake for Shivarathri, then all nightwatchmen, all train drivers , call centres employees should get evolved.- as Bhagwan put it. there is no such exclusive privilege of the chosen few to be eligible to attain self realisation. the journey inwards and the speed and accuracy with which you are able to establish connectivity with the Supreme Self,- i feel , ultimately this matters. Praying our Beloved Sai to Shower His Divine Love on all of us your Saibrother Crishnan */Taipiece- Safron robes do not always cover Holymen. Be focussed to the Supreme Lord Our beloved Sai. He has already Chosen you to receive HIS Grace His Divine Love/* saibabanews, GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62> wrote: > Hi Surendar,Sai sisters and brothers,I am trying to attempt to express my view on te above subject to the best of m,y views........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Surendar Kumar <suren_atlantic Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:00pm Re: [saibabanews] Digest Number 489 Good evening to all the SaiRam Brothers & Sisters who are in this Group. Dear Ganapathy Raman I certainly agree with your views regading the Self Realisation. Unless we do sadhana to purify the mind all other things would be just intellectual dabbling. The practices which we undertake should transform us from core of the heart.So Bhajans & Namasmaran would really be a nectar and it'll make that sure we are in path of surrender. You are absolutely right. I am pleased to be in this group and have a great satsang. Thanks V.Surendara Kumar ---------- "dobby sommer" <dobbyonearth Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:11pm om sairam Sairam and Sai Blessings to All, Thank you so much Crishan for your wonderful story to dispel the little doubts of unworthyness just when I needed most to hear. Thank you Lord Sai for leading me to you all. For the love of Sai, grandmother dobby ---------- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:47pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization Sairam Brother Soumendra, All are gud in stories.We can quote any number of such things.here the question is one of pragmatism.One must have the enthusiasm and devotion in achieving the goal.Agreed.But I feel your answer is not the correct solution for the question of liberation and self realisation unless one knows what exactly the thing is.Baba,Vivekananda and so may others have propounded the same.But do you really think such a thing can happen without going through the ordeals to achieve the goal.Then what is after all liberation.Is there any yardstick.what exactly the same means.how do you know whether you have liberated or not.Baba can say that but the same has to be experienced and cant depend on hearsay quotes.A realised soul is one who has reached the supra conscious state where there is no body consaciousness and there is no duality and only the atma enjoys absolute bliss and need not teach anybody cos there is only atma pervading everywhere.then where is the question of teaching to others.But such a Great soul can come down to the mundane level to encourage all to reach the place that soul has reached.One can have enthusiasm and efforts and devotion in reaching MT.Everest.For that a lot of preparations and training in mountaineering,taking enough supplies of the required things and practice all are required.Just with enthusiasm and devotion if somebody tries to climb he will see himself not the top of the everest but only the bottom.So devotion,concentration and the will to achieve the goal are all ok but without practice and guidance of another Realised soul to think of liberation is nothing but absurd.For that one must be physically,mentally tough and have the willy nilly to achieve the goal what ever difficulties he has to face in the path.Just by doing namasmarana and bhajans one cant get liberated unless one has done enough practices in the earlier births.This is what all the Great people have enunciated and just by quoting some stories from Vivekananda or others one cannot progress in the spiritual realm as easily as you think.That story is just to give encouragement that is all.There are lot of storieslike that and even Baba used to say if you have absolute devotion I will liberate you.Do you think He really means it.For that you must study in between lines.Unless one has poorvajenma bala and unless one has a mind of detachment and unless one does spiritual practices under a Great Master this matter liberation cant be achieved and any number of explanations cant convince one unless one himself experiences such a bliss.That is all.So please dont give importance to such parables and try to contact a really evolved sould and get the method to achieve the goal of liberation.It is very difficult to get any lessons from them as they know whether one is fit for taking such an arduous path and hence always suggest to do japa dhyana and bhajans.A first standard student cant understand the intricacies of the subjects of post graduate students.so liberation can be achieved step by step only and not overnight.It is only wishful thinking.Nobody can give that including Sri Baba unless one is well prepared and deserve to achieve the same.Yoganandas autobiography of a yogi is a very nice book in this matter.Even h4 ,Swami Vivekananda,Bhagawan Ramakrishna and may be even our Baba do meditations and such things to keep themselves in the cosmic stage always.So brother soumendra it is ok to quote stories but to experience the perfect consciousness is a very very difficult task.I am not discouraging anybody that they shuld not do bhajans,nama japa etc but that wont give one Mukthy or Self Realisation.Unless one studies to subject to a great extent it is difficult to explain the matter and that is why all the Great Masters always maintain silence over the subject as by saying sugar is sweet one cant have any idea unless he or she tastes the sugar.The road is long and full of thorns but it is a gud thing attempts shuld be made to reach that so that slowly but surely the path will open after some struggle for an ardent devotee depending upon his dedication and other practices.sairam. Lovingly brother in Sai, agraman ---------- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:44pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization Sairam brother crishnan, I too have heard the story you have put and many other stories like that.There are everso many divine magazines in which one can find lot of such stories.The ego clash of the devotees and the teaching meted out to them by the Lord.I only wish to stress these stories cant lead us anywhere in the arduous path of self realisation.There is a saying that one can take a horse to a stream but twenty cant make him to drink water.So the stories of this type are only to inculcate some devotion in the otherwise dry minds and turn the same towards Godliness.When the question of self realisation comes such stories wont lead one anywhere.I have some experience by having in association with such a Great Soul who is no more and I was also told only to do japa,dhyana,concentration on ONE DEITY of my choice and do the same way to my liking but always keep that Deity in the mind never two but one and in the process after years slowly the kingdom will open.The person I hv mentioned undergone severe penance for 30 years in a secluded place to get the Realisation.I was also informed when I questioned how could the person forgot the family etc and the reply was that all the attachments were discorded in the previous birth itself.I wish to say it was not a yogi but a woman saint of par excellence leading a secluded life near Cannanore in Kerala and the magnetic power emanated from Her drew many persons but she never spoke anything as she observed mouna vratha for more than 30 years till she attained the Mahasamathy.She lived in a forest and never attached to mundane activities.This does not mean she advocated all to become like her but encouraged to take care of the family and do ones duty with dedication but always remember God who is the Guide for all.She never insisted that you should do this and that but advised to do what one feels gud or bad according to conscience.My association for about three years in the last leg of her journey on this earth have taught me many lessons on this subject.She attained Mukti at the age of 64.She was so disciplined and used to go in savikalpa samathy always.The radiance emanated from Her face was a seen to watch and any troubled mind used to get peace at her sight.She used to teach me if I ask question on spiritual matters not by speaking or narrating stories bt through actions which only her devotees could understand.We used to call Her Mother of Koodali.a place near Cannanore as I said earlier.Only few people would have known her as she shunned publicity and interested in persons coming with spirtual quest and never bothered about material high ups.For her all were equal.She possessed lot of siddhis but used to advise that shuld not be used when the sadhak achieves in courseas they are an obstacle in the path of realisation.However many of Her devotees used to get their problems solved miraculously as she used to say that everything is one and only one and there is no duality.Of course such big things cant be assimilated so easily by us as I am Raman and you are Krishnan.We believe in tht sense.But for her it makes no difference except devotion. So my brother crishnan first thing is one must have devotion and dedication and when he or she is ripened for the spiritual uplift some Guru will come without ourselves searching and guide us.I also wish to say that she never had any disciples. This is an explosive and interesting topic and much attention can be given by our sai brothers and sisters so that to a great way that will help us to improve our knowledge about this science also.will there be takers?Reading books written On Baba is one thing discussing and assimilating ones personal experience is another thing.Even Baba will encourage such discussions.May be because He might have iinduced me to put in a topic on this I am doing my little bit,I dont know.Only Bhagawan knows.But one who has a fairly gud knowledge will come forward to clarify more on this subject,I am sure of that by the Blessings of beloved SAI.Om SAIRAM.Please forgive me if I say thismatter has not been concluded in the present age.May be in the earlier yugas. Lovingly. brother in sai, agraman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 "crishnantv" <crishnantv Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:11am Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization my dear Saibrother Ganapathi raman, from what you express in somany words i feel you are looking outward for a moment please attempt to look inward. May Bhagwan Bestow on you peace and Bliss. afterall we are all seekers in the Samepath Crishnan ---------- Soumendra Bhattacharjee <soumendra_toronto Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:11pm Re: [saibabanews] Re: Some Doubts on Self Realization Sai Ram Brother Raman , First of all this is not a debate and secondly how can you say that they are good in stories.Brother we have to shun all negativity right now ,because if Swami says that this is the road and I will show you the way then who are we to question.? We have to follow without any questions we cannot be doubting Thomas and always have questions. Brother we have to start if He says that I will give you Liberation then He will? who are we to question? at least we tried, we took one step, and as He said that He will take ten steps towards us then He will- If I die right now, I dont know I will be liberated or not but at least I took one step,whether it is Namsmaran,Bhajan , Gaytrimantra or Seva but I did plunge wihtout any question.We have to take inspirations from all these stories and proceed.You mentioned that road is thorny but with dedication you can reach the goal-exactly we need to have devotion and earnestness otherwise it becomes difficult. I wil refrain from this discussions as this is a lesson for me too that I must not exude enthusiasm. My Humble Pranam to you Brother Raman and I want to quote Swami Vivekananda- "Arise Awake and rest not till your goal is reached." Sai Ram Namaskar Sooumendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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