Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 OM NAMAH SIVAYA SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL YOU HAVE FREEWILL Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all destiny. If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This will bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument. An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were changed by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free will of his own. Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound and tenable; they fall to the ground. Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly, Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art That. The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana. The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of infinite bliss of the self. JAI MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Thank you for sharing this. On Apr 15, 2006, at 3:18 PM, ecjensen_us wrote: > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL > YOU HAVE FREEWILL > Â > > Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all destiny. > If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then > should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This will > bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect > misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument. > > An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have > made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You > have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue > is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will > change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and > will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit > Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi > Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were changed > by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will > have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way > you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right > thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra > or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free > will of his own. > > Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings > before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his > tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. > The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by > determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound > and tenable; they fall to the ground. > > Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the > deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly, > Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of > others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou > art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art > That. > > The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in > the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable > assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They > will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground > of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana. > The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of > infinite bliss of the self. > > > > > > Links > > > JAI MA > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > â–ª Â Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. > Â > â–ª Â > Â Ammachi > Â > â–ª Â Terms of > Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The president may think that he can push a red button at any time to cause the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does he wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God alone is the doer. Nandu Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL > YOU HAVE FREEWILL > > > Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all destiny. > If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then > should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This will > bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect > misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument. > > An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have > made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You > have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue > is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will > change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and > will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit > Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi > Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were changed > by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will > have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way > you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right > thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra > or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free > will of his own. > > Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings > before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his > tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. > The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by > determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound > and tenable; they fall to the ground. > > Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the > deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly, > Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of > others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou > art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art > That. > > The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in > the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable > assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They > will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground > of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana. > The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of > infinite bliss of the self. > > > > > > Links > > > JAI MA > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 namaste, amma also says that if you throw a stone up in the air, due to karma( gravity ) it will fall back and hit the ground; unless you put out your hand and catch it. "God being the only doer" and this article on FREEWILL are not incompatible in my simple view. amma's blessings, amarnath Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn wrote: > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to cause > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does he > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God alone > is the doer. > > Nandu > > Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL > > YOU HAVE FREEWILL > > > > > > Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all destiny. > > If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then > > should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This will > > bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect > > misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument. > > > > An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have > > made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You > > have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue > > is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will > > change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and > > will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit > > Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi > > Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were changed > > by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will > > have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way > > you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right > > thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra > > or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free > > will of his own. > > > > Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings > > before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his > > tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. > > The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by > > determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound > > and tenable; they fall to the ground. > > > > Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the > > deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly, > > Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of > > others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou > > art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art > > That. > > > > The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in > > the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable > > assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They > > will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground > > of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana. > > The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of > > infinite bliss of the self. > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > JAI MA > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn wrote: > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to cause > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does he > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God alone > is the doer. > > Nandu > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Namaskarams!! come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She never says the same thing all the time... so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or that dasha period. perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might undertake to do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that is "destined" to be chosen... it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution to. so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my solution to the "problem" In Amma's Divine Love, and in Her Service, as ever, your own visvanathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on the side of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is that every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know where that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was absurd. Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in Amma or not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in Amma for 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, it is within everyone's control according to him, and it was only for a day. I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller coaster, and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only riding it. I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes me feel guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action is borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) Nandu Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath wrote: > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > cause > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > he > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > alone > > is the doer. > > > > Nandu > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > Namaskarams!! > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She > never says the same thing all the time... > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or > that dasha period. > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is > one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might undertake to > do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that > is "destined" to be chosen... > > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution > to. > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my > solution to the "problem" > > In Amma's Divine Love, > and in Her Service, > as ever, > your own > visvanathan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath wrote: > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > cause > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > he > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > alone > > is the doer. > > > > Nandu > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > Namaskarams!! > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us > that we have freewill... > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution > to. > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my > solution to the "problem" > > In Amma's Divine Love, > and in Her Service, > as ever, > your own > visvanathan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> namaste visvanathan and thanks for a balanced view. my 2 cents understanding of spiritual( as well as scientific ) principles is that there are many views( sometimes seemingly contradictory ) each suitable for different situations; some would say different levels; but i would stay away from implying hierachical levels, because while DUALITY does present some general LINEAR causality rules( like joytish ); we are told( and perhaps have glimpses ) that NON-DUALITY( ONENESS ) is NON-LINEAR; which means IT can be glimpsed at any time, by anyone, anywhere due to God's Grace. Amma's Blessings, amarnath may all beings everywhere be happy and peaceful and not too serious ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 No, this article is not absurd. The Buddha spoke of the Eight-fold Path. One can change one’s destiny even though one still has to bear with the Karmic forces accumulated from our past actions. But it can be diluted. If we do our actions with Right Thoughts and Right Effort, we can all progress spiritually – with Amma’s Grace. Donn Ammachi [Ammachi] On Behalf Of vallathnkumar Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM Ammachi Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The president may think that he can push a red button at any time to cause the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does he wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God alone is the doer. Nandu Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL > YOU HAVE FREEWILL > > > Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all destiny. > If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then > should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This will > bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect > misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument. > > An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have > made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You > have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue > is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will > change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and > will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit > Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi > Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were changed > by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will > have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way > you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right > thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra > or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free > will of his own. > > Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings > before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his > tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. > The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by > determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound > and tenable; they fall to the ground. > > Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the > deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly, > Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of > others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou > art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art > That. > > The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in > the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable > assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They > will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground > of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana. > The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of > infinite bliss of the self. > > > > > > Links > > > JAI MA > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! • Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. • Ammachi • Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Aum Namah Shivaya Aum Gum Ganapatayai Namaha Aum Amriteshwaryai Namaha We having faith in Amma is Amma's will, as we see in Amma's Bhajans we find verses in Bhajan "Kaduttha Shokamaam" like "Anugrahikku ennai nee sanaadhi nistanaaguvaan" which means bless me so that i'll always remember you and pray to you.So our attachement with the God/Guru is what God/Guru decides. Amma's son Gururaj Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn wrote: > > Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on the side > of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is that > every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know where > that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was absurd. > Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in Amma or > not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in Amma for > 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, it is > within everyone's control according to him, and it was only for a day. > I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller coaster, > and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only riding it. > > I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes me feel > guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action is > borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) > > Nandu > > > Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath@> > wrote: > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > > cause > > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > > he > > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > > alone > > > is the doer. > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > > > Namaskarams!! > > > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us > > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT > > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas > > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are > > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring > > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and > > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... > > > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had > > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often > > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on > > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She > > never says the same thing all the time... > > > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and > > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends > > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more > > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the > > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from > > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may > > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart > > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as > > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, > > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have > > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" > > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or > > that dasha period. > > > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is > > one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might undertake to > > do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that > > is "destined" to be chosen... > > > > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list > > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution > > to. > > > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive > > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a > > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally > > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my > > solution to the "problem" > > > > In Amma's Divine Love, > > and in Her Service, > > as ever, > > your own > > visvanathan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Yes, once the Guru calls us, it is truly the head of the lamb in the lion's mouth. There is no choice there. And as far as our bad actions being of our own free will-since we are not totally God realized, those actions cannot be attributed to God. Amma talks of this quite a bit. In our hearts we know that bad actions are not truly from God. What the mind cannot comprehend, the heart can. Ammachi, "mailguru2004" <mailguru2004 wrote: > > Aum Namah Shivaya Aum Gum Ganapatayai Namaha Aum Amriteshwaryai Namaha > > We having faith in Amma is Amma's will, as we see in Amma's Bhajans we > find verses in Bhajan "Kaduttha Shokamaam" like > "Anugrahikku ennai nee sanaadhi nistanaaguvaan" which means bless me > so that i'll always remember you and pray to you.So our attachement > with the God/Guru is what God/Guru decides. > > Amma's son > Gururaj > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on the side > > of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is that > > every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know where > > that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was absurd. > > Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in Amma or > > not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in Amma for > > 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, it is > > within everyone's control according to him, and it was only for a day. > > I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller coaster, > > and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only riding it. > > > > I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes me feel > > guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action is > > borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) > > > > Nandu > > > > > > Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > > > cause > > > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > > > he > > > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > > > alone > > > > is the doer. > > > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > > > > > Namaskarams!! > > > > > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us > > > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT > > > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas > > > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are > > > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring > > > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and > > > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... > > > > > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had > > > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often > > > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on > > > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > > > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She > > > never says the same thing all the time... > > > > > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and > > > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends > > > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more > > > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the > > > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > > > > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from > > > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may > > > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart > > > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as > > > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, > > > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have > > > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > > > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" > > > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or > > > that dasha period. > > > > > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is > > > one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might undertake to > > > do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that > > > is "destined" to be chosen... > > > > > > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list > > > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution > > > to. > > > > > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive > > > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a > > > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally > > > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my > > > solution to the "problem" > > > > > > In Amma's Divine Love, > > > and in Her Service, > > > as ever, > > > your own > > > visvanathan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.