To Linda & Joanna (was: To manoj and joanna about moving on to a new guru

[Guest guest]

Dear Linda,

 

A # of Gurus have helped me. But, they all led up to Mata Amritanadamayi. When

I requested a mantra from Amma, the interviewer asked if I had received a mantra

from another Guru. This seemed to be an important point. On the other hand,

when a Guru makes their Maha Samadhi, it's my understanding that they can lead a

devotee to another Guru, who is still in the body. I like your suggestion, to

ask a Swami or Swamini about this. The swamini who works in the book store, has

been very accessable & helpful.

 

Sweta

 

nierika wrote:

manoj wrote (to joanna about requesting a mantra from Amma):

 

If you already have one, then the general suggestion is to stick to

it because at the time of initiation, a powerful bond has been

created, and your repetitions have deepened the bond further. Taking

another mantra (especially from another guru) may require more

effort to un-bond the old and bond the new before the mantra

starts 'singing'. not a very productive strategy as you can

see. .... but you never know, talk to Amma and explain all of this

to her and see what she says. Grace can free up a lot of the past.

 

if you don't already have one from Karunamayi (viz she promised to

give a mantra but has not yet delivered because of lack of time

etc), then I guess it's not a harm to get a mantra from Amma.

 

 

 

Dear manoj and joanna ~ I have never heard that, having received a mantra

from one guru, that following one's heart that leads you to another guru would

preclude you from asking that guru for a mantra. Even if Karunamayi gave you

(joanna) a mantra, I don't believe that precludes you asking for one from

Amma, particularly if your heart feels clear that your guru is now Amma. You

might want to discuss this with whatever Swami or Swamini is in charge of the

mantra line.

 

I will resort to a concept that I learned from Swami Satyananda Saraswati. I

was fortunate to see Swamiji and Shree Maa on their last (and maybe final) US

tour. I watched them perform a wonderful yagya (fire ceremony) and the bank

of a river in Colorado and then I was fortunate to, a few weeks later, attend

a several days retreat in Issaqua, Washington. During a lecture, Swami

discussed a concept called the "upa guru." Since this process has an actual

name,

and I trust Swamiji implicitely, I believe this concept to be rooted in Hindu

tradition. Even Swamiji had several gurus before he met Shree Maa.

 

The "upa guru" is the one who gives you the knowledge up to a certain point

where you are then drawn to another guru. The "upa guru" leads you to your

next guru, and maybe to the next and so on. Swamiji likened this to being in

school. He said, "the best gift you can give your first grade teacher is to

pass

first grade and go to second grade; the best gift you can give your second

grade teacher is to pass and move on to third grade. At some point you will

discover your lifelong guru, who is also an "upa guru" because (S)He leads you

to the Supreme Guru.

 

I would request that anyone inclined please resist the desire to criticize

Swamiji or Shree Maa. If there is a need to criticize someone, then criticize

me ... please.

 

Jai Ma ~ Linda

 

 

 

 

 

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

 

 

 

Mata amritanandamayi

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

 

Ammachi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Very true, Sweta.

 

Linda,

 

I did not mean one can't follow many gurus and learn from them (I

myself read up on so many of them and try to create a unique spiritual

environment for myself).

 

All I said is that a mantra can usually be taken from one guru. I

repeat, USUALLY. which means exceptions can occur. you never know you

are the exception till you ask. that's why I told Joanna to ask Amma

and see if exceptions can be allowed (assuming she had a mantra from

Karunamayi, which she later clarified she does not). Exceptions can be

handled by gurus only, not by me!

 

This is also not contradictory to Swami Satyananda (who I respect

greatly, BTW). If I paraphrase him correctly, he said (not exact

quote): Siksha (knowledge) from many teachers is ok, but take Diksha

(initiation) from one only.

 

DM members on this list, if I have interpreted this wrongly or

incompletely, please correct me at once.

 

My own take on the mantra thing is:

Knowledge (information, contemplation, meditation etc) is relatively

impersonal, but mantra is a raw emotional bond between a relaized

master and a deluded disciple. A mantra disciple is the one who can

claim to know a secret from the guru that on one else in the world

knows. It has an intimacy about it, that is especially nourishing to

the deluded disciple.

 

It is for his own good that the disciple limit such nourishment to one

guru (as an analogous aside, how many have been fed breast milk from 2

mothers? Which mother would like it and give in to it easily if the

child could have demanded so? all formula-fed folks, this question

obviously does not apply to you!); the true guru knows the unity of

things and will hardly be disturbed by the disciple's

'adventourousness in taking on 2 gurus', but will yet be concerned

whether the disciple is realized enough to live up to the dynamics of

the lila that both gurus will pour on him.

 

hence, as far as a mantra is concerned, choose one guru and stick to

him! there will be plenty of button-pushing lilas with one to be even

able to think about another! ..... again, rare individuals may be

qualified to be simultaneous disciples of multiple gurus and may even

do a spectacular job of it; if that happens, that lila will only add

to our spiritual awe and encourage us to give more to our spiritual lives.

 

Jai Ma!

 

 

Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

>

> Dear Linda,

>

> A # of Gurus have helped me. But, they all led up to Mata

Amritanadamayi. When I requested a mantra from Amma, the interviewer

asked if I had received a mantra from another Guru. This seemed to be

an important point. On the other hand, when a Guru makes their Maha

Samadhi, it's my understanding that they can lead a devotee to another

Guru, who is still in the body. I like your suggestion, to ask a

Swami or Swamini about this. The swamini who works in the book store,

has been very accessable & helpful.

>

> Sweta

>

> nierika wrote:

> manoj wrote (to joanna about requesting a mantra from Amma):

>

> If you already have one, then the general suggestion is to stick to

> it because at the time of initiation, a powerful bond has been

> created, and your repetitions have deepened the bond further. Taking

> another mantra (especially from another guru) may require more

> effort to un-bond the old and bond the new before the mantra

> starts 'singing'. not a very productive strategy as you can

> see. .... but you never know, talk to Amma and explain all of this

> to her and see what she says. Grace can free up a lot of the past.

>

> if you don't already have one from Karunamayi (viz she promised to

> give a mantra but has not yet delivered because of lack of time

> etc), then I guess it's not a harm to get a mantra from Amma.

>

>

>

> Dear manoj and joanna ~ I have never heard that, having received a

mantra

> from one guru, that following one's heart that leads you to another

guru would

> preclude you from asking that guru for a mantra. Even if Karunamayi

gave you

> (joanna) a mantra, I don't believe that precludes you asking for

one from

> Amma, particularly if your heart feels clear that your guru is now

Amma. You

> might want to discuss this with whatever Swami or Swamini is in

charge of the

> mantra line.

>

> I will resort to a concept that I learned from Swami Satyananda

Saraswati. I

> was fortunate to see Swamiji and Shree Maa on their last (and maybe

final) US

> tour. I watched them perform a wonderful yagya (fire ceremony) and

the bank

> of a river in Colorado and then I was fortunate to, a few weeks

later, attend

> a several days retreat in Issaqua, Washington. During a lecture,

Swami

> discussed a concept called the "upa guru." Since this process has

an actual name,

> and I trust Swamiji implicitely, I believe this concept to be

rooted in Hindu

> tradition. Even Swamiji had several gurus before he met Shree Maa.

>

> The "upa guru" is the one who gives you the knowledge up to a

certain point

> where you are then drawn to another guru. The "upa guru" leads you

to your

> next guru, and maybe to the next and so on. Swamiji likened this

to being in

> school. He said, "the best gift you can give your first grade

teacher is to pass

> first grade and go to second grade; the best gift you can give

your second

> grade teacher is to pass and move on to third grade. At some point

you will

> discover your lifelong guru, who is also an "upa guru" because

(S)He leads you

> to the Supreme Guru.

>

> I would request that anyone inclined please resist the desire to

criticize

> Swamiji or Shree Maa. If there is a need to criticize someone, then

criticize

> me ... please.

>

> Jai Ma ~ Linda

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

>

>

>

> Mata

amritanandamayi

>

>

>

>

>

> Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

>

>

> Ammachi

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Mail

> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya!

 

Brothers and sisters

 

This is how I feel on this topic. I was introduced to Mata

Amritanandamayi in 1996 by one of my elderly relatives. As time went

by I felt more and more excited to be with Amma and I got mantra from

her. At first I requested Amma to give me Mantra in 1998 on a non-

Devi Bhava day. Amma told She will give Mantra when I come to Her

later. (Amma gives mantra only when she is in Devi bhava.) when I saw

Amma in the next Devi Bhava I thought I was not prepared to get

Mantra from Her and so I got Mantra from Her only in 1999 July. From

then on I feel nice repeating the Mantra and I even find I don't need

any other Mantra. I think the time I got the Mantra was delayed only

because Amma would give the Mantra only when I am prepared for that.

(This is just my view and it need not be the truth.)

 

Through all these years I feel Amma is my Sat Guru. The

only reason I felt I could spend time with Devi Karunamayi was I

could spend one more day in the year with a spiritual master. For me

the days I spend with Amma are like being in heaven.

 

As far everyone I know Amma has not refused Mantra.

 

Om Namah Shivaya!

 

Mahadevan venkitaraman

 

 

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammademon wrote:

>

> Very true, Sweta.

>

> Linda,

>

> I did not mean one can't follow many gurus and learn from them (I

> myself read up on so many of them and try to create a unique

spiritual

> environment for myself).

>

> All I said is that a mantra can usually be taken from one guru. I

> repeat, USUALLY. which means exceptions can occur. you never know

you

> are the exception till you ask. that's why I told Joanna to ask Amma

> and see if exceptions can be allowed (assuming she had a mantra from

> Karunamayi, which she later clarified she does not). Exceptions can

be

> handled by gurus only, not by me!

>

> This is also not contradictory to Swami Satyananda (who I respect

> greatly, BTW). If I paraphrase him correctly, he said (not exact

> quote): Siksha (knowledge) from many teachers is ok, but take Diksha

> (initiation) from one only.

>

> DM members on this list, if I have interpreted this wrongly or

> incompletely, please correct me at once.

>

> My own take on the mantra thing is:

> Knowledge (information, contemplation, meditation etc) is relatively

> impersonal, but mantra is a raw emotional bond between a relaized

> master and a deluded disciple. A mantra disciple is the one who can

> claim to know a secret from the guru that on one else in the world

> knows. It has an intimacy about it, that is especially nourishing to

> the deluded disciple.

>

> It is for his own good that the disciple limit such nourishment to

one

> guru (as an analogous aside, how many have been fed breast milk

from 2

> mothers? Which mother would like it and give in to it easily if the

> child could have demanded so? all formula-fed folks, this question

> obviously does not apply to you!); the true guru knows the unity of

> things and will hardly be disturbed by the disciple's

> 'adventourousness in taking on 2 gurus', but will yet be concerned

> whether the disciple is realized enough to live up to the dynamics

of

> the lila that both gurus will pour on him.

>

> hence, as far as a mantra is concerned, choose one guru and stick to

> him! there will be plenty of button-pushing lilas with one to be

even

> able to think about another! ..... again, rare individuals may be

> qualified to be simultaneous disciples of multiple gurus and may

even

> do a spectacular job of it; if that happens, that lila will only add

> to our spiritual awe and encourage us to give more to our spiritual

lives.

>

> Jai Ma!

>

>

> Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Linda,

> >

> > A # of Gurus have helped me. But, they all led up to Mata

> Amritanadamayi. When I requested a mantra from Amma, the

interviewer

> asked if I had received a mantra from another Guru. This seemed to

be

> an important point. On the other hand, when a Guru makes their Maha

> Samadhi, it's my understanding that they can lead a devotee to

another

> Guru, who is still in the body. I like your suggestion, to ask a

> Swami or Swamini about this. The swamini who works in the book

store,

> has been very accessable & helpful.

> >

> > Sweta

> >

> > nierika@ wrote:

> > manoj wrote (to joanna about requesting a mantra from Amma):

> >

> > If you already have one, then the general suggestion is to

stick to

> > it because at the time of initiation, a powerful bond has been

> > created, and your repetitions have deepened the bond further.

Taking

> > another mantra (especially from another guru) may require more

> > effort to un-bond the old and bond the new before the mantra

> > starts 'singing'. not a very productive strategy as you can

> > see. .... but you never know, talk to Amma and explain all of

this

> > to her and see what she says. Grace can free up a lot of the

past.

> >

> > if you don't already have one from Karunamayi (viz she promised

to

> > give a mantra but has not yet delivered because of lack of time

> > etc), then I guess it's not a harm to get a mantra from Amma.

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear manoj and joanna ~ I have never heard that, having received

a

> mantra

> > from one guru, that following one's heart that leads you to

another

> guru would

> > preclude you from asking that guru for a mantra. Even if

Karunamayi

> gave you

> > (joanna) a mantra, I don't believe that precludes you asking for

> one from

> > Amma, particularly if your heart feels clear that your guru is

now

> Amma. You

> > might want to discuss this with whatever Swami or Swamini is in

> charge of the

> > mantra line.

> >

> > I will resort to a concept that I learned from Swami Satyananda

> Saraswati. I

> > was fortunate to see Swamiji and Shree Maa on their last (and

maybe

> final) US

> > tour. I watched them perform a wonderful yagya (fire ceremony)

and

> the bank

> > of a river in Colorado and then I was fortunate to, a few weeks

> later, attend

> > a several days retreat in Issaqua, Washington. During a lecture,

> Swami

> > discussed a concept called the "upa guru." Since this process

has

> an actual name,

> > and I trust Swamiji implicitely, I believe this concept to be

> rooted in Hindu

> > tradition. Even Swamiji had several gurus before he met Shree

Maa.

> >

> > The "upa guru" is the one who gives you the knowledge up to a

> certain point

> > where you are then drawn to another guru. The "upa guru" leads

you

> to your

> > next guru, and maybe to the next and so on. Swamiji likened this

> to being in

> > school. He said, "the best gift you can give your first grade

> teacher is to pass

> > first grade and go to second grade; the best gift you can give

> your second

> > grade teacher is to pass and move on to third grade. At some

point

> you will

> > discover your lifelong guru, who is also an "upa guru" because

> (S)He leads you

> > to the Supreme Guru.

> >

> > I would request that anyone inclined please resist the desire to

> criticize

> > Swamiji or Shree Maa. If there is a need to criticize someone,

then

> criticize

> > me ... please.

> >

> > Jai Ma ~ Linda

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mata

> amritanandamayi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

> >

> >

> > Ammachi

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mail

> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

> >

> >

> >

>