Sattvic social change versus tamasic political sloganering

[Guest guest]

Namah Sivaya Ckeniley2003,

 

What are you talking about? What hyped political rhetoric? The prison

industrial complex mirrors the former plantation system in this country.

Companies are investing in prisons, building prisons, and using the

labor of the prisoners for their own benefit. The parallels between

these two systems are uncanny. Perhaps *you *should do the research.

 

And your rhetoric is not hyped? It is certainly emotional and

polarizing! Your name-calling and insults masquerading as "intelligent"

critique and commentary or advice does not serve the purpose of 'good

seva' of which you speak.

 

I do acknowledge that prison systems elsewhere may be horrid (I can't

imagine any penal system that would not be). However, we are not talking

about prison systems in other countries, we are talking about the USA.

If we consider ourselves a democratic nation reflecting an ideal that we

think the world should emulate, then we must clean up our own backyard

first. If our prison system is faulty, then ought we not get about

remedying the problems? Prison abuses and corruption is no secret.

There is plenty scholarly work on this subject.

 

No one is suggesting that those who have committed crimes ought not be

punished and pay their debt to society. While I haven't been "raped or

attacked at gunpoint," I certainly have compassion for those that have.

I also have compassion for the police officers that have to face the

gang violence permeating so many communities. But part of the system

problems include locking up individuals who have been mistaken for

others and therefore, unlawfully imprisoned. There are just so many

examples of problems with our justice system. Certainly you are aware of

the recent release of people exonerated by DNA evidence? The point is

the system is very problematic. Anyone being incensed about that is not

necessarily "feeling good by complaining" by using "half-baked

politically based criticisms." Frankly, that sounds to me like what you

are doing. Even those who are rightly imprisoned would still be loved

and shown compassion by our Mother.There are just so many examples of

her doing this kind of thing.

 

I have watched your response to many subjects over the months and I have

to wonder where your compassion is and just when you reflect Amma's

love. It would be nice to see it sometime in your commentary.

 

 

Egyirba

 

================================================

 

ckeniley2003 wrote:

> On Namah Shivaya

>

> Certainly , the prison system needs reform.....

>

> but how much of your rhetoric (the new plantations) is true analysis

> and much is hyped political rhetoric...please try to be honest...how

> would you like to compare US prisons with say...Pakistan or

> Venezuela? Do you really understand prisons and have an in depth

> knowledge of the problems faced by communities overwhelmed by crime,

> and don't know how to deal with it? Have you ever been raped or

> attacked at gun point? Are you aware of the difficulty of being a

> police officer having to deal with gang violence? It is so easy to

> slop out slogans without a deep and balanced understanding of the

> many sides of an issue. It so much easier (and less intelligent) to

> point fingers and blame the evil bad guys (corporations and white

> people). Do you think marxist federal prisons in China are better

> than corporate prisons? Really? Do you have any idea of what you are

> talking about?

>

> Again true, real talk about reform is interesting, half baked

> politically based criticisms recycled through dopey political web

> sites is just polarizing..

>

> and do you honestly think that the people in prison didn't commit

> crimes? Criticism that is real and balanced and well researched

> creates respect and the ability to advance reform....political hype

> and exagerrated sloganering is not good seva...it may give you an

> emotional jolt, but it will only polarize your audience, and delay

> true reforms.....

>

> It is similar to PETA people who do illegal things for animal

> rights, it only makes vegetarians look stupid and destructive. And I

> am a commited vegetarian who believes that many of the worlds

> problems will be solved when we stop doing violence to animals.

>

> Are you willing to do the work to really research problems and

> change things, and to speak to people from all walks of life

> intelligently and fairly, with a holistic perspective, or do you

> just want to feel good about complaining?

>

> In my opinion this is Tamasic versus Sattvic social change....

>

>

> Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...>

> wrote:

>

>> prisons for profit -- the new plantations

>>

>> ecjensen_us wrote:

>>

>>> OM NAMAH SIVAYA

>>>

>>> not only are the prisons for profit many of them are public companies

trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Complete with lobbyist in Washington

helping to form our policies. and now corporate America is beginning to

outsource prison labor. it is home grown source of cheap labor. slave labor

one could say. while the sixth amendment grants everyone the right to counsel,

i would not want to rely on a public defender to represent my interests. i once

had to spend several thousand dollars for attorney's fees and was only being

"interviewed" by the Feds. friends in the same situation without resources for

representation had a very different interviewing process. without funds you are

definitely guaranteed a speedy trial, though it may not have the outcome one

would desire.

--

 

"Naan Amme Snehikkunnu"

 

Be Love,

Egyirba

http://www.egyirba.net

 

-=-=-

.... Real human life is devoted completely to spiritual evolution. In order

to devote ourselves to the realization of these ultimate ideals we

need to cultivate some attitudes like peacefulness. Peacefulness in

your nature is the foremost amongst energies. Cultivate peace. You,

yourself, will understand if your actions bring peace, or are actually

leading you in another direction. --from Gems of Wisdom from Shree Maa

and Swami Satyananda Saraswati. Copyright 1998. Devi Mandir Publications.

www.shreemaa.org

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter wrote:

 

> Namah Sivaya Ckeniley2003,

>

> What are you talking about? What hyped political

> rhetoric? The prison

> industrial complex mirrors the former plantation

> system in this country.

> Companies are investing in prisons, building

> prisons, and using the

> labor of the prisoners for their own benefit.

 

Governments have been using prison labor for decades,

mainly to manufacture license plates. So why is it so

bad when the private sector invests in prison labor??

 

No U.S. politician ever lost an election by promising

to be "lock 'em up and throw away the key" tough on

crime.

 

Discussion about taking Amma to African American and

other minority communities, and why there seem to be

so few Blacks, Hispanics, etc. going for Amma's

darshan is relevant to this group.. but this thread on

the so-called "prison industrial complex" and whether

people doing time behind bars deserve to be there or

are victims of a racist justice system is not relevant

to Amma and has the potential to become a flame-fest..

let's dial it down..

 

I never was a big fan of the Beatles..and John

Lennon's assassination is not on a par with JFK, RFK

or MLK Jr., but I do remember this day 25 years

ago..heard it from Howard Cosell while watching Monday

night football game.

 

Keval

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

AMMAs sons experience is that these types of discussions let us know how

much we have grown spiritually.it is not about BEING RIGHT and sometimes it

is difficult to detach from that.you all HELP AMMAS son see how much more

growing he has to do.everything is relevant if it is expressed with the

heart.the subject does not matter as long as the intention behind it has the

right motive.we have to be careful when making comments about things that we

have not truly experienced ourselves.we should try to sympathize with one

another.the way we treat each other, is the way we will treat others in the

world.we cant knock religious groups for their dogmatic teachings if we are

not willing ourselves to treat each other with KINDNESS.we can AGREE TO

DISAGREE.A WISE MAN ONCE TOLD ME THAT THE PERSON WHO IS THE MOST HUMBLE IS

ALWAYS RIGHT.that stuck with AMMAs son.namah shivaya.AMMAs son bows to AMMA

within you all.

 

 

>Mike Brooker <patria1818

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Sattvic social change versus tamasic political

>sloganering

>Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:47:39 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>

>--- Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter wrote:

>

> > Namah Sivaya Ckeniley2003,

> >

> > What are you talking about? What hyped political

> > rhetoric? The prison

> > industrial complex mirrors the former plantation

> > system in this country.

> > Companies are investing in prisons, building

> > prisons, and using the

> > labor of the prisoners for their own benefit.

>

>Governments have been using prison labor for decades,

>mainly to manufacture license plates. So why is it so

>bad when the private sector invests in prison labor??

>

>No U.S. politician ever lost an election by promising

>to be "lock 'em up and throw away the key" tough on

>crime.

>

>Discussion about taking Amma to African American and

>other minority communities, and why there seem to be

>so few Blacks, Hispanics, etc. going for Amma's

>darshan is relevant to this group.. but this thread on

>the so-called "prison industrial complex" and whether

>people doing time behind bars deserve to be there or

>are victims of a racist justice system is not relevant

>to Amma and has the potential to become a flame-fest..

>let's dial it down..

>

>I never was a big fan of the Beatles..and John

>Lennon's assassination is not on a par with JFK, RFK

>or MLK Jr., but I do remember this day 25 years

>ago..heard it from Howard Cosell while watching Monday

>night football game.

>

>Keval

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya

 

Please bear with my mental garbage.

 

I personally see all the misunderstandings because of the nature of

the people - Rajasic(Devi's Daughter) vs Tamasic (ckinley). ckinley

seems to think his/her posts are Sattwic & a person can abide in

Satva. My personal opinion is Satva permeates the other two gunas, so

you can be Rajasic, Tamasic, Rajasic-Satvic & Tamasic-Satvic. How can

a person be absolutely Satvic? I believe you have to start at Rajas &

Tamas and move towards incorporating Satva. Satva might appear like

Tamas at first - but the indifference in Satva arises from true

knowledge whereas the indifference shown by Tamas is out of

ignorance/darkness. I personally am tamasic in my indifference and

insensitivity towards the world's problems, but I wouldn't have the

gall like ckinley to discourage the Rajasic among us like Temba &

Devi's Daughter.

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...>

wrote:

>

> Namah Sivaya Ckeniley2003,

>

> What are you talking about? What hyped political rhetoric? The prison

> industrial complex mirrors the former plantation system in this

country.

> Companies are investing in prisons, building prisons, and using the

> labor of the prisoners for their own benefit. The parallels between

> these two systems are uncanny. Perhaps *you *should do the research.

>

> And your rhetoric is not hyped? It is certainly emotional and

> polarizing! Your name-calling and insults masquerading as "intelligent"

> critique and commentary or advice does not serve the purpose of 'good

> seva' of which you speak.

>

> I do acknowledge that prison systems elsewhere may be horrid (I can't

> imagine any penal system that would not be). However, we are not

talking

> about prison systems in other countries, we are talking about the USA.

> If we consider ourselves a democratic nation reflecting an ideal

that we

> think the world should emulate, then we must clean up our own backyard

> first. If our prison system is faulty, then ought we not get about

> remedying the problems? Prison abuses and corruption is no secret.

> There is plenty scholarly work on this subject.

>

> No one is suggesting that those who have committed crimes ought not be

> punished and pay their debt to society. While I haven't been "raped or

> attacked at gunpoint," I certainly have compassion for those that have.

> I also have compassion for the police officers that have to face the

> gang violence permeating so many communities. But part of the system

> problems include locking up individuals who have been mistaken for

> others and therefore, unlawfully imprisoned. There are just so many

> examples of problems with our justice system. Certainly you are

aware of

> the recent release of people exonerated by DNA evidence? The point is

> the system is very problematic. Anyone being incensed about that is not

> necessarily "feeling good by complaining" by using "half-baked

> politically based criticisms." Frankly, that sounds to me like what you

> are doing. Even those who are rightly imprisoned would still be loved

> and shown compassion by our Mother.There are just so many examples of

> her doing this kind of thing.

>

> I have watched your response to many subjects over the months and I

have

> to wonder where your compassion is and just when you reflect Amma's

> love. It would be nice to see it sometime in your commentary.

>

>

> Egyirba

>

[Guest guest]

my beautiful brother ravi,would you be so kind to say that in slightly

simpler terms.AMMAS son doesnt understand.please help your brother with

this.or you can call your brother as well and explain it like

that.773-722-3247.

 

>"Ravi Chivukula" <ravichivukula

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

> Re: Sattvic social change versus tamasic political

>sloganering

>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:46:44 -0000

>

>Namah Shivaya

>

>Please bear with my mental garbage.

>

>I personally see all the misunderstandings because of the nature of

>the people - Rajasic(Devi's Daughter) vs Tamasic (ckinley). ckinley

>seems to think his/her posts are Sattwic & a person can abide in

>Satva. My personal opinion is Satva permeates the other two gunas, so

>you can be Rajasic, Tamasic, Rajasic-Satvic & Tamasic-Satvic. How can

>a person be absolutely Satvic? I believe you have to start at Rajas &

>Tamas and move towards incorporating Satva. Satva might appear like

>Tamas at first - but the indifference in Satva arises from true

>knowledge whereas the indifference shown by Tamas is out of

>ignorance/darkness. I personally am tamasic in my indifference and

>insensitivity towards the world's problems, but I wouldn't have the

>gall like ckinley to discourage the Rajasic among us like Temba &

>Devi's Daughter.

>

>

>

>

>Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...>

>wrote:

> >

> > Namah Sivaya Ckeniley2003,

> >

> > What are you talking about? What hyped political rhetoric? The prison

> > industrial complex mirrors the former plantation system in this

>country.

> > Companies are investing in prisons, building prisons, and using the

> > labor of the prisoners for their own benefit. The parallels between

> > these two systems are uncanny. Perhaps *you *should do the research.

> >

> > And your rhetoric is not hyped? It is certainly emotional and

> > polarizing! Your name-calling and insults masquerading as "intelligent"

> > critique and commentary or advice does not serve the purpose of 'good

> > seva' of which you speak.

> >

> > I do acknowledge that prison systems elsewhere may be horrid (I can't

> > imagine any penal system that would not be). However, we are not

>talking

> > about prison systems in other countries, we are talking about the USA.

> > If we consider ourselves a democratic nation reflecting an ideal

>that we

> > think the world should emulate, then we must clean up our own backyard

> > first. If our prison system is faulty, then ought we not get about

> > remedying the problems? Prison abuses and corruption is no secret.

> > There is plenty scholarly work on this subject.

> >

> > No one is suggesting that those who have committed crimes ought not be

> > punished and pay their debt to society. While I haven't been "raped or

> > attacked at gunpoint," I certainly have compassion for those that have.

> > I also have compassion for the police officers that have to face the

> > gang violence permeating so many communities. But part of the system

> > problems include locking up individuals who have been mistaken for

> > others and therefore, unlawfully imprisoned. There are just so many

> > examples of problems with our justice system. Certainly you are

>aware of

> > the recent release of people exonerated by DNA evidence? The point is

> > the system is very problematic. Anyone being incensed about that is not

> > necessarily "feeling good by complaining" by using "half-baked

> > politically based criticisms." Frankly, that sounds to me like what you

> > are doing. Even those who are rightly imprisoned would still be loved

> > and shown compassion by our Mother.There are just so many examples of

> > her doing this kind of thing.

> >

> > I have watched your response to many subjects over the months and I

>have

> > to wonder where your compassion is and just when you reflect Amma's

> > love. It would be nice to see it sometime in your commentary.

> >

> >

> > Egyirba

> >

>

>

>

>

 

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