courageous conversation about race: low african american attendance

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...> wrote:

>

> A couple thoughts. This is a good conversation to have, and as

> someone said, it is about love.

>

> > I've been coming to Amma's Michigan programs every year since

that

> >first program in a hockey rink in Ann Arbor (1999) and I am

always

> >surprised at how few black people I see coming for darshan --

> >considering that the city of Detroit is around 75%

> >African American.

>

> To me, the low African-American attendance shows that much more

> outreach has yet to be done. And more effective outreach, with a

> consciousness of what it would be like, all your life, to be

Other,

> treated as an outsider while others automatically assume that they

> belong. Probably all of us have that feeling in some area of our

> lives, but the legacy of racial oppression makes these barriers

> extremely tough. I believe that those of us who have not lived the

> experience of being dark in a racist society need to examine where

we

> may have absorbed its contamination, and cleanse our consciousness

so

> that we behave according to truth.

>

> Someone else wrote,

>

> >i think the "privilege" you speak of is another word for

> >economics. and most don't even realize the advantages they have.

>

> That is true. And yet there are issues beyond economics, as when

> black men get stopped, even thrown up against their car, by cops

who

> think they must have stolen the Lexus, or assume that they don't

> belong in a wealthy neighborhood. Then even overcoming the

economic

> hurdles is no protection against race bias. Same with trying to

get a

> cab in New York; many don't want to stop for a dark-skinned

person.

> These are patterns of behavior that cause much pain and stress.

High

> blood pressure, higher mortality rates, so many other harsh

realities.

>

> Max

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

>

 

Hey Max,

 

I think the reasons for low African American attendance at Amma's

programs has almost nothing to do with the reasons you give, and

absolutely nothing to do with "racism". I believe it is a cultural

issue.

 

The black christian church is the traditional source for black

american spirituality. This is the touchstone for most. The black

folks I see coming to Amma have an interest in hinduism, and have a

bent for eastern mysticism in general. I do not think that the

christian church would be very welcoming to Amma. the cultural

barriers are very strong.

 

Amma can be quite alot to absorb for someone who has no familiarity

woth Indian culture. And American culture is not friendly to gurus

in general. American black culture and indian culture are truly

different and the lifestyle choices that sanatana dharma recommend

are at odds with urban culture.

 

One way I can see for more interest to develop would be if there

were a major source of Seva happening at a local level and the

community were to get very involved, like a low income housing

project or a school. But these are very expensive and intense, life

consuming things that would be full time work for many people, with

little or no pay. Also if a guru is emphasized there is a tendency

for it to be labled as a "cult" project.

 

this is what the mormon church does when recruiting new members, it

provides material resources for poor people....but I DO NOT really

get it that Amma is about recruitment of this type in the US, where

gurus are considered unusual and perhaps, controversial.

[Guest guest]

>The black christian church is the traditional source for black

>american spirituality. This is the touchstone for most.

 

I agree, and also think that many of those believers are

fundamentalist in a way that precludes being open to wisdom to other

traditions, which are often perceived as idolatrous, etc. What you

say about cultural differences is true, but in every culture there

are always people who are interested in exploring broader parameters.

I know there are black folks who are very interested in non-christian

religion, whether African, Buddhist, or Hindu. Some have come to the

San Ramon MA Center over the years, but many don't seem to return, or

only come when Amma is here.

 

As for the alleged evenhandedness of banks, there has long been a

practice called redlining in which loans and credit were systemically

refused on the basis of location in an African American neighborhood.

Cases still occur and make the news now and again. Jobs and housing

and many other areas still show discrimination, as shown by numerous

studies which control for income, education, etc.

 

jai Ma,

Max

 

--

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Global Women's History

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Namah Shivaya

 

>> >The black christian church is the traditional source for black

>> >american spirituality. This is the touchstone for most.

>

> The Friends Society and other churches in the north were among the first

> institutions to minister to slaves.

> One of their first places to gather was in their own church.

> Some of the slave rebellions arose out of these churches.

> When the kkk burns an african american church it is symbolic; this history is

> behind it.

> And the loyalty to the church is understandable.

>

> Forgot to mention another excellent video:

> Thus Far by Faith

>

> Jai Amma.

> premarupa

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

AMMAs son bows to these words.

 

 

>Ardis Jackson <ardis1

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: low african

>american attendance

>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:30:54 -0800

>

>I was so thrilled when I went to see Amma in LA this past June to see

>the diversity of Her Children. Not only diversity in skin color but in

>hair styles and dress and age groups.

>

>My former ashram was only white and Indian. Once I saw a black man,

>but he only visited once and never returned. I asked why this was the

>case and I was told that African Americans were just not drawn to

>Eastern Spirituality. I knew that this was not true. I had visited

>other ashrams where there was a much more diverse group. We Are All

>One.

>

>Pahari Maa

>

>

>On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:18 PM, ckeniley2003 wrote:

>

> > Ammachi, Max Dashu <maxdashu@l...> wrote:

> > >

> > > A couple thoughts. This is a good conversation to have, and as

> > > someone said, it is about love.

> > >

> > > >  I've been coming to Amma's Michigan programs every year since

> > that

> > > >first program in a hockey rink in Ann Arbor (1999) and I am

> > always

> > > >surprised at how few black people I see coming for darshan --

> > > >considering that the city of Detroit is around 75%

> > > >African American.

> > >

> > > To me, the low African-American attendance shows that much more

> > > outreach has yet to be done. And more effective outreach, with a

> > > consciousness of what it would be like, all your life, to be

> > Other,

> > > treated as an outsider while others automatically assume that they

> > > belong. Probably all of us have that feeling in some area of our

> > > lives, but the legacy of racial oppression makes these barriers

> > > extremely tough. I believe that those of us who have not lived the

> > > experience of being dark in a racist society need to examine where

> > we

> > > may have absorbed its contamination, and cleanse our consciousness

> > so

> > > that we behave according to truth.

> > >

> > > Someone else wrote,

> > >

> > > >i think the "privilege" you speak of is another word for

> > > >economics. and most don't even realize the advantages they have.

> > >

> > > That is true. And yet there are issues beyond economics, as when

> > > black men get stopped, even thrown up against their car, by cops

> > who

> > > think they must have stolen the Lexus, or assume that they don't

> > > belong in a wealthy neighborhood. Then even overcoming the

> > economic

> > > hurdles is no protection against race bias. Same with trying to

> > get a

> > > cab in New York; many don't want to stop for a dark-skinned

> > person.

> > > These are patterns of behavior that cause much pain and stress.

> > High

> > > blood pressure, higher mortality rates, so many other harsh

> > realities.

> > >

> > > Max

> > > --

> > > Max Dashu

> > > Suppressed Histories Archives

> > > Global Women's History

> > > http://www.suppressedhistories.net

> > >

> >

> > Hey Max,

> >

> > I think the reasons for low African American attendance at Amma's

> > programs has almost nothing to do with the reasons you give, and

> > absolutely nothing to do with "racism". I believe it is a cultural

> > issue.

> >

> > The black christian church is the traditional source for black

> > american spirituality. This is the touchstone for most. The black

> > folks I see coming to Amma have an interest in hinduism, and have a

> > bent for eastern mysticism in general. I do not think that the

> > christian church would be very welcoming to Amma. the cultural

> > barriers are very strong.

> >

> > Amma can be quite alot to absorb for someone who has no familiarity

> > woth Indian culture. And American culture is not friendly to gurus

> > in general. American black culture and indian culture are truly

> > different and the lifestyle choices that sanatana dharma recommend

> > are at odds with urban culture.

> >

> > One way I can see for more interest to develop would be if there

> > were a major source of Seva happening at a local level and the

> > community were to get very involved, like a low income housing

> > project or a school. But these are very expensive and intense, life

> > consuming things that would be full time work for many people, with

> > little or no pay. Also if a guru is emphasized there is a tendency

> > for it to be labled as a "cult" project.

> >

> > this is what the mormon church does when recruiting new members, it

> > provides material resources for poor people....but I DO NOT really

> > get it that Amma is about recruitment of this type in the US, where

> > gurus are considered unusual and perhaps, controversial.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mata amritanandamayi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

> >  

> > ▪  

> >  Ammachi

> >  

> > ▪   Terms of

> > Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Ammachi, Max Dashu <

maxdashu@l...> wrote:

>

> >The black christian church is the traditional source for black

> >american spirituality. This is the touchstone for most.

>

> I agree, and also think that many of those believers are

> fundamentalist in a way that precludes being open to wisdom

to other

> traditions, which are often perceived as idolatrous, etc. What

you

> say about cultural differences is true, but in every culture there

> are always people who are interested in exploring broader

parameters.

> I know there are black folks who are very interested in non-

christian

> religion, whether African, Buddhist, or Hindu. Some have come

to the

> San Ramon MA Center over the years, but many don't seem to

return, or

> only come when Amma is here.

>

> As for the alleged evenhandedness of banks, there has long

been a

> practice called redlining in which loans and credit were

systemically

> refused on the basis of location in an African American

neighborhood.

> Cases still occur and make the news now and again. Jobs

and housing

> and many other areas still show discrimination, as shown by

numerous

> studies which control for income, education, etc.

>

> jai Ma,

> Max

>

> --

> Max Dashu

> Suppressed Histories Archives

> Global Women's History

> http://www.suppressedhistories.net

>

>

 

 

 

Namah Shivaya Max,

 

have to disagree with this....using the logic of these studies, we

could say that Amma is rascist.....because statistically speaking,

very few black americans go to Amma's satsangs...

 

Similarly, because income levels are lower for blacks than

asians or whites is not a sign of racism, but is a sign of different

cultural, social and educational standards...again recent

pakistani, asian and african immigrants to the US THRIVE

here...

 

black kids need education on entreprenuership, capital

formation, lifestyle change etc to catch up with their peers..that is

the real issue....not racism.....

 

I worked in several jobs where black people were definitely

promoted over whites in order to meet the current cultural

corporate standards of equality....I would say the opportunities

for black entrepreneurs are tremendous...but they have to have a

dharmic attitude, not a chip on their shoulder...because no one

wants to do business with a wise guy or a wild card...simply out

of self preservation...