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My two cents worth: any conversation about race should be mature and

balanced.....I find that these "conversations" can fall into

permanent victim stereotyping, labeling, and using emotional

hysterics instead of reasonable discussion.

 

There are many reasons why black kids don't achieve on the level of

other races as of yet, and it is not all about racism, not by a long

shot. The atmosphere the parents provide at home is the most

important ingredient. Can the conversation also include the fact

that the welfare system has ravaged the black family? Amma herself

will not pamper her children at the Ashram, we all have to work

really hard to makes ends meet. Nobody is entitled to a perpetual

free ride. Otherwise, how would we grow? The black church I am

involved with in Virginia does not tolerate their congregation

viewing themselves as victims.

 

When africans, west indians and other black people come to the US

today they thrive. I am friends with many africans because of my

involvement in the arts, and they do not have the fuming anger and

attitudinal, institutional resentment towards whites that I feel

from many of my college educated black friends.

 

Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

are far better off here than other countries of the world.

 

We all know Amma is color blind, and that is the reality.

 

Stereotyping any race is racism, including the stereotyping of

the "greedy corporate", "colonialist", "privileaged" white people.

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "temba spirits" <tembaspirits@h...>

wrote:

>

> actually this is not a courageous conversation about race BUT," A

COURAGEOUS

> CONVERSATION ABOUT LOVE"

>

>

> >Kenna <itskenna@c...>

> >Ammachi

> ><Ammachi>

> > courageous conversation about race

> >Mon, 05 Dec 2005 01:59:00 -0600

> >

> >Namah Shivaya.

> >

> >Thanks Temba, Bela and Prasadini for jumping into what some are

calling a

> >³Courageous Conversation about Race.²

> >

> >This conversation is being had in various school districts

throughout the

> >country to eliminate the achievement gap.

> >

> >Our local school district The Madison Public Schools are in the

3rd year of

> >this conversation.

> >It is the only system in the nation to include all the employees

from

> >teachers to lunch staff to maintenance people. The first year

some of the

> >African American employees walked out of the conversation due to

extreme

> >frustration with the lack of understanding of racism by the white

> >employees.

> >3 years later there is far greater understanding between the

white

> >employees

> >and the employes of color

> >and THE GAP IN READING ABILITY AMONG ALL 3RD GRADERS HAS BEEN

ELIMINATED

> >(by

> >Amma¹s grace).

> >

> >This child believes this conversation needs to happen in

communities all

> >over this country, including this one.

> >

> >Good background:

> >

> >* Peggy McIntosh¹s groundbreaking article on White Privilege

> >http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

> >

> >* The movie Crash (the most nondualistic, Hindu feeling film

this child

> >has

> >ever seen.)

> >

> >* The video ³Color of Fear²

> >www.stirfryseminars.com/pages/coloroffear.htm

> >

> >* The video ³The Way Home² by Shakti Butler

> >www.edchange.org/multicultural/reviews/f-thewayhome.html

> >

> >* A soon to be released video by Shakti Butler about White

Privilege

> >

> >* The PBS series on slavery and the making of America.

> >www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/

> >

> >May Amma grace flow to all our efforts in this conversation.

> >Jai Amma.

> >premarupa

> >

> >

> >

> > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > I used to attend an ashram near Oakland, CA. There were quite

> > > a few African Americans who attended the ashram. I was not

aware of

> >racism,

> > > but then I'm white and maybe because I was not on the

receiving end I

> >missed

> > > it. Perhaps it also depends on where the ashram or spiritual

community

> >is.

> > > If it is in a racially mixed area, maybe there would be more

minorities

> > > participating. And the same for predominately white areas.Just

my

> >thoughts.

> > > Prasadini

> > >

> > > temba spirits wrote:

> > >> > someone told AMMAs son on the phone today that the issue of

racism

> >amongs

> > >> > spiritual circles is being smered over.it was interesting

that as an

> > >> african

> > >> > american ,AMMAs son had to comfort a white american.she was

very

> > >> upset.tried

> > >> > to give her the universal love conversation but she wasnt

trying to

> >hear

> > >> > it.dont get me wrong, the conversation was great.just

wandering if

> >anyone

> > >> alse

> > >> > had a perspective on this topic..MOTHERS son has been

treated a

> >little

> > >> > strangly while chanting in certain circles.wont say there

names .that

> >is

> > >> not

> > >> > important.wondering also if anyone ever wondered why there

arent more

> > >> > blackpeople and hispanic people in some of these

circles.AMMAs son is

> > >> asking

> > >> > because he is not aftraid to be real,but also,want to get a

deeper

> > >> > understanding.figure we are all brothers and sisters and

could open

> >this

> > >> can

> > >> > of worms.namahashivaya.

> > >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _______________

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Posted
Posted

> Immigrants to the US

> are far better off here than other countries of the

> world.

 

Probably including Canada.. at least most immigrants

with advanced professional qualifications have a

pretty good chance of getting work in their fields in

the U.S.. in Canada, foreign-trained doctors and

engineers usually end up driving cabs or flipping

burgers.

 

>

> We all know Amma is color blind, and that is the

> reality.

 

As they say in Sanskrit: VASUDHAIVA KUTUMBAKAM (the

world is one family).

 

>

> Stereotyping any race is racism, including the

> stereotyping of

> the "greedy corporate", "colonialist", "privileaged"

> white people.

>

 

Slagging white people, particularly white,

heterosexual males, seems to be tolerated.. and is

virtually de rigueur among the über-politically

correct, liberal-leftist university campus crowd who

pump out verbiage on "white privilege" and such..

shouldn't have to remind anyone that words like

"whitey" and "honky" are just as offensive as n*****

 

FWIW, I've been coming to Amma's Michigan programs

every year since that first program in a hockey rink

in Ann Arbor (1999) and I am always surprised at how

few black people I see coming for darshan --

considering that the city of Detroit is around 75%

African American.

 

Keval

 

 

 

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Posted
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"Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

are far better off here than other countries of the world."

 

Rightly Said, Racism is global.

 

Racism in India is really worst than here. One should view numerous Indian

Matrimonial websites where prospect Bride or Bridegroom always insist that they

have 'Fair' complexion. Popular Indian face cream 'Fair and Lovely' commercials

that are broad casted depict how applying this cream would make their skin

light. Racism in India is explicit and deep rooted to such an extent that people

don't realize it is Racism. Never mind, all Hindu gods:- Kali, Shiva, Krishna,

Rama are dark. Let us not forget that Ammachi was ill treated because of her

Complexion.

 

Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda between Hutus and Tutsis was among Africans.

Beheading in Saudi Arabia (which follows radical Sunni sect-Wahabism) is always

done by African. Ongoing Darfur (Sudan) ethnic cleansing. Similar stories I

heard about Japanese racial contempt towards Koreans and Chinese.

 

BTW when I was Undergrad ,I had many African friends from Nigeria,Kenya and of

course from Jamaica (we use to play Cricket)who were doing exceptionally well.

 

In Conclusion, sorry for my deviation. Ammachi's devotees are from everywhere

and belong to every religion, Race, culture.

 

We are not bodies but in essence Atman (Sat-Chit-Anada).

 

Aum

Avinash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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to the dear beautiful person who shared ,please be so kind to allow MOTHERS

son to express something to you.one thing MOTHERS son has learned is to not

compare peoples pain and struggles.some people argue that the 55,000,000

african people that died in the ocean coming to ameica is worse then the

jewish holacaust.then some say that the jewish the holocaust was worse .some

say that the native american tragedy was worse then them both.when a african

american womans baby dies, is it worse then when a white american mothers

baby dies?ofcourse it isnt and that goes both ways.my beautiful dear child

of AMMA who shared this.your words are honored by AMMAs son ,but we must be

careful not to compare such as this.when you say things like this you

unknowingly will close a person who has experienced racism in america down

from being open to the point that you are truly trying to make.racism is

racism,wherever it is.where there is one soul that is sick the entire human

family is effected.MARTIN LUTHER KING LEARNED FROM THE GREAT PASSIVE

RESISTANT MOVEMENT OF GHANDI.WE MUST LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHERS STRUGLLES NOT

COMPARE.we are one and our goal in dialoging about this topic must stay in

the name of moving towards that ONENESS.AMMAs son does respect the freedom

of your opinion.namah shivaya.LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE

,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMAAAAAAAAAAA,LOVE

 

 

>avinash ramidi <avinash7_99

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:49:03 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>

>

>"Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

>Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

>are far better off here than other countries of the world."

>

> Rightly Said, Racism is global.

>

> Racism in India is really worst than here. One should view numerous

>Indian Matrimonial websites where prospect Bride or Bridegroom always

>insist that they have 'Fair' complexion. Popular Indian face cream 'Fair

>and Lovely' commercials that are broad casted depict how applying this

>cream would make their skin light. Racism in India is explicit and deep

>rooted to such an extent that people don't realize it is Racism. Never

>mind, all Hindu gods:- Kali, Shiva, Krishna, Rama are dark. Let us not

>forget that Ammachi was ill treated because of her Complexion.

>

> Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda between Hutus and Tutsis was among Africans.

>Beheading in Saudi Arabia (which follows radical Sunni sect-Wahabism) is

>always done by African. Ongoing Darfur (Sudan) ethnic cleansing. Similar

>stories I heard about Japanese racial contempt towards Koreans and Chinese.

>

> BTW when I was Undergrad ,I had many African friends from Nigeria,Kenya

>and of course from Jamaica (we use to play Cricket)who were doing

>exceptionally well.

>

> In Conclusion, sorry for my deviation. Ammachi's devotees are from

>everywhere and belong to every religion, Race, culture.

>

> We are not bodies but in essence Atman (Sat-Chit-Anada).

>

> Aum

> Avinash.

>

>

>

Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

 

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Posted
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to the dear beautiful person who shared ,please be so kind to allow MOTHERS

son to express something to you.one thing MOTHERS son has learned is to not

compare peoples pain and struggles.some people argue that the 55,000,000

african people that died in the ocean coming to ameica is worse then the

jewish holacaust.then some say that the jewish the holocaust was worse .some

say that the native american tragedy was worse then them both.when a african

american womans baby dies, is it worse then when a white american mothers

baby dies?ofcourse it isnt and that goes both ways.my beautiful dear child

of AMMA who shared this.your words are honored by AMMAs son ,but we must be

careful not to compare such as this.when you say things like this you

unknowingly will close a person who has experienced racism in america down

from being open to the point that you are truly trying to make.racism is

racism,wherever it is.where there is one soul that is sick the entire human

family is effected.MARTIN LUTHER KING LEARNED FROM THE GREAT PASSIVE

RESISTANT MOVEMENT OF GHANDI.WE MUST LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHERS STRUGLLES NOT

COMPARE.we are one and our goal in dialoging about this topic must stay in

the name of moving towards that ONENESS.AMMAs son does respect the freedom

of your opinion.namah shivaya.LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE

,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMAAAAAAAAAAA,LOVE

 

 

>avinash ramidi <avinash7_99

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:49:03 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>

>

>"Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

>Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

>are far better off here than other countries of the world."

>

> Rightly Said, Racism is global.

>

> Racism in India is really worst than here. One should view numerous

>Indian Matrimonial websites where prospect Bride or Bridegroom always

>insist that they have 'Fair' complexion. Popular Indian face cream 'Fair

>and Lovely' commercials that are broad casted depict how applying this

>cream would make their skin light. Racism in India is explicit and deep

>rooted to such an extent that people don't realize it is Racism. Never

>mind, all Hindu gods:- Kali, Shiva, Krishna, Rama are dark. Let us not

>forget that Ammachi was ill treated because of her Complexion.

>

> Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda between Hutus and Tutsis was among Africans.

>Beheading in Saudi Arabia (which follows radical Sunni sect-Wahabism) is

>always done by African. Ongoing Darfur (Sudan) ethnic cleansing. Similar

>stories I heard about Japanese racial contempt towards Koreans and Chinese.

>

> BTW when I was Undergrad ,I had many African friends from Nigeria,Kenya

>and of course from Jamaica (we use to play Cricket)who were doing

>exceptionally well.

>

> In Conclusion, sorry for my deviation. Ammachi's devotees are from

>everywhere and belong to every religion, Race, culture.

>

> We are not bodies but in essence Atman (Sat-Chit-Anada).

>

> Aum

> Avinash.

>

>

>

Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

 

_______________

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Posted
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one thing MOTHERS son believes in his heart that AMMA WANTS US TO DO IS TO

SYPATHIZE WITH EVERYONE.it is a challenge to put yourself in the shoes of

someone else.as men we truly have to surrender to the AMMA WITHIN US.it is

just simple truth that there are more people of a certain cultural

backrounds that have not been exposed the yoga movement like others have.for

whatever reason this is .it is just the truth.MOTHERS son is not angry at

anyone,his heart only has a longing to help AMMAs message get out there to

communitys that it hasnt reached.racism is sick wherever it is and when we

talk about it,it forces us to look at oursleves more deeply.if it disturbs

us or makes us feel uncomfortable ,then that means that we need growth in

that area.that is a good thing but we have to look at ourselves and not

compare struggles and pain.its all the same.as spiritual children we should

be wiiling to accept this.AMMA being dark and being persecuted is one of the

things that AMMAs son really fell in love with.this to this child meant that

she understood from personal experience all that everyone close to me

experienced.MOTHERS son prays that as a family we face this thing with

courage and open hearts.everyone perspective is DIVINE and we can agree to

disagree without being resentful towards anyone or anything.namah shivaya.

 

 

>avinash ramidi <avinash7_99

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:49:03 -0800 (PST)

>

>

>

>

>"Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

>Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

>are far better off here than other countries of the world."

>

> Rightly Said, Racism is global.

>

> Racism in India is really worst than here. One should view numerous

>Indian Matrimonial websites where prospect Bride or Bridegroom always

>insist that they have 'Fair' complexion. Popular Indian face cream 'Fair

>and Lovely' commercials that are broad casted depict how applying this

>cream would make their skin light. Racism in India is explicit and deep

>rooted to such an extent that people don't realize it is Racism. Never

>mind, all Hindu gods:- Kali, Shiva, Krishna, Rama are dark. Let us not

>forget that Ammachi was ill treated because of her Complexion.

>

> Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda between Hutus and Tutsis was among Africans.

>Beheading in Saudi Arabia (which follows radical Sunni sect-Wahabism) is

>always done by African. Ongoing Darfur (Sudan) ethnic cleansing. Similar

>stories I heard about Japanese racial contempt towards Koreans and Chinese.

>

> BTW when I was Undergrad ,I had many African friends from Nigeria,Kenya

>and of course from Jamaica (we use to play Cricket)who were doing

>exceptionally well.

>

> In Conclusion, sorry for my deviation. Ammachi's devotees are from

>everywhere and belong to every religion, Race, culture.

>

> We are not bodies but in essence Atman (Sat-Chit-Anada).

>

> Aum

> Avinash.

>

>

>

Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

 

_______________

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thankyou for sharing your beautiful words.again MOTHERS son would like to

say as they say in A.A lets be careful not to compare but to indentify.you

all keep saying this thing about racism being worse here or there and then

you conclude the conversation with this spiritaul stuff.AMMAs son

appreciattes this,BUT PLEASE OPEN YOUR HEART TO THIS.most of the kids in

america have no idea of the racism in other countrys!at the most they know

about GHANDI.we must relate to our kids right here.a lot of black and white

kids in american are still very angry at the energy of racism and the people

that infuenced it.the other night AMMAs son was on the phone talking to a a

young white american devotee who cried to me because of the guilt that she

felt because of what her father did to black people .we should talk to the

children and teenagers and see what they have to say.we are all so spiritual

now and have almost lost touch of how the kids feel.there is alot of dormant

anger out there.if one of you had said that there was more racism in these

other places to someone who was AFRICAN AMERICAN around the time of

hurricane katrina they might have wanted to hurt you. we have begun our

healing process with this issue.we have MOTHER,however there are thousands

right here in the U.S.A and other places in the world that havent.

 

now my brothers and sisters lets go to another level .do you all realize

that the prison systems in america are 95 percent filled with blacks and

hispanics.do you know that in the twentys,thirtys,fortys and fiftys that

that was the other way around.that is not a coincidence.that my beautiful

brothers and sisters is modern day slavery.do OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO

ARE IN JAIL NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THERE BEHAVIORS AND CHANGE

?OFCOURSE THEY DO .MOTHERS son knows this first hand.it is cool that there

are african americans that are not victum conscious,but there are many more

that are. .prison systems in n.america being filld with 95 percent blacks

and hispanics is racism at its finest!there is the kaarma explanation,but as

AMMA has said, it is not our job to look at other peoples kaarma, but to

sympathize and help them the best way we can.are we that passed our issues

right here in AMERICA?95percent blacks and hispanics .MOTHERS son doesnt

think so.we are in america.we can change what is right here if we will be

strong enough to face it with the courage of OUR AMMA. ON THE OTHER HAND ,TO

KEEP SAYING WHAT IS WORSE SOMEWHERE ELSE IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT YOU

DONT WANT TO DEAL WITH IT.AMMAs son totally respects that because AMMA has

taught him to respect his brothers and sisters fredom.with all love and

understanding,sincerley your brother and child OF AMMA,temba

 

 

>"ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

> Re: courageous conversation about race: always two sides

>for balance

>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:15:57 -0000

>

>My two cents worth: any conversation about race should be mature and

>balanced.....I find that these "conversations" can fall into

>permanent victim stereotyping, labeling, and using emotional

>hysterics instead of reasonable discussion.

>

>There are many reasons why black kids don't achieve on the level of

>other races as of yet, and it is not all about racism, not by a long

>shot. The atmosphere the parents provide at home is the most

>important ingredient. Can the conversation also include the fact

>that the welfare system has ravaged the black family? Amma herself

>will not pamper her children at the Ashram, we all have to work

>really hard to makes ends meet. Nobody is entitled to a perpetual

>free ride. Otherwise, how would we grow? The black church I am

>involved with in Virginia does not tolerate their congregation

>viewing themselves as victims.

>

>When africans, west indians and other black people come to the US

>today they thrive. I am friends with many africans because of my

>involvement in the arts, and they do not have the fuming anger and

>attitudinal, institutional resentment towards whites that I feel

>from many of my college educated black friends.

>

>Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

>Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

>are far better off here than other countries of the world.

>

>We all know Amma is color blind, and that is the reality.

>

>Stereotyping any race is racism, including the stereotyping of

>the "greedy corporate", "colonialist", "privileaged" white people.

>

>

>

>

>Ammachi, "temba spirits" <tembaspirits@h...>

>wrote:

> >

> > actually this is not a courageous conversation about race BUT," A

>COURAGEOUS

> > CONVERSATION ABOUT LOVE"

> >

> >

> > >Kenna <itskenna@c...>

> > >Ammachi

> > ><Ammachi>

> > > courageous conversation about race

> > >Mon, 05 Dec 2005 01:59:00 -0600

> > >

> > >Namah Shivaya.

> > >

> > >Thanks Temba, Bela and Prasadini for jumping into what some are

>calling a

> > >³Courageous Conversation about Race.²

> > >

> > >This conversation is being had in various school districts

>throughout the

> > >country to eliminate the achievement gap.

> > >

> > >Our local school district The Madison Public Schools are in the

>3rd year of

> > >this conversation.

> > >It is the only system in the nation to include all the employees

>from

> > >teachers to lunch staff to maintenance people. The first year

>some of the

> > >African American employees walked out of the conversation due to

>extreme

> > >frustration with the lack of understanding of racism by the white

> > >employees.

> > >3 years later there is far greater understanding between the

>white

> > >employees

> > >and the employes of color

> > >and THE GAP IN READING ABILITY AMONG ALL 3RD GRADERS HAS BEEN

>ELIMINATED

> > >(by

> > >Amma¹s grace).

> > >

> > >This child believes this conversation needs to happen in

>communities all

> > >over this country, including this one.

> > >

> > >Good background:

> > >

> > >* Peggy McIntosh¹s groundbreaking article on White Privilege

> > >http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

> > >

> > >* The movie Crash (the most nondualistic, Hindu feeling film

>this child

> > >has

> > >ever seen.)

> > >

> > >* The video ³Color of Fear²

> > >www.stirfryseminars.com/pages/coloroffear.htm

> > >

> > >* The video ³The Way Home² by Shakti Butler

> > >www.edchange.org/multicultural/reviews/f-thewayhome.html

> > >

> > >* A soon to be released video by Shakti Butler about White

>Privilege

> > >

> > >* The PBS series on slavery and the making of America.

> > >www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/

> > >

> > >May Amma grace flow to all our efforts in this conversation.

> > >Jai Amma.

> > >premarupa

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > > I used to attend an ashram near Oakland, CA. There were quite

> > > > a few African Americans who attended the ashram. I was not

>aware of

> > >racism,

> > > > but then I'm white and maybe because I was not on the

>receiving end I

> > >missed

> > > > it. Perhaps it also depends on where the ashram or spiritual

>community

> > >is.

> > > > If it is in a racially mixed area, maybe there would be more

>minorities

> > > > participating. And the same for predominately white areas.Just

>my

> > >thoughts.

> > > > Prasadini

> > > >

> > > > temba spirits wrote:

> > > >> > someone told AMMAs son on the phone today that the issue of

>racism

> > >amongs

> > > >> > spiritual circles is being smered over.it was interesting

>that as an

> > > >> african

> > > >> > american ,AMMAs son had to comfort a white american.she was

>very

> > > >> upset.tried

> > > >> > to give her the universal love conversation but she wasnt

>trying to

> > >hear

> > > >> > it.dont get me wrong, the conversation was great.just

>wandering if

> > >anyone

> > > >> alse

> > > >> > had a perspective on this topic..MOTHERS son has been

>treated a

> > >little

> > > >> > strangly while chanting in certain circles.wont say there

>names .that

> > >is

> > > >> not

> > > >> > important.wondering also if anyone ever wondered why there

>arent more

> > > >> > blackpeople and hispanic people in some of these

>circles.AMMAs son is

> > > >> asking

> > > >> > because he is not aftraid to be real,but also,want to get a

>deeper

> > > >> > understanding.figure we are all brothers and sisters and

>could open

> > >this

> > > >> can

> > > >> > of worms.namahashivaya.

> > > >> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _______________

> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

>it's FREE!

> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> >

>

>

>

>

 

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Namah Shivaya,

 

I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing these

issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to suggest that

the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

minded.

 

People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes. Could the

the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there be

better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in jail?

yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our dharma.

 

But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

dharmic behavior?

 

A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering to and

encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I believe

these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the white

people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich white

people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave well

or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white man's

government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these communities

pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach them to

channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits in with

some people's political power agendas and so they encourage it. What

about the responsiblity for each of us in making good positive

choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

community where these children were raised? What about good old

fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and PERSONAL

responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

 

To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political power

seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other low level

behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages us to

adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give, not to

cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be given

more and more.

 

This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor black folks

lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community suggested that a

white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering peace and

brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a hurricane wiped

out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of whom to

this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

government. Was that racism?

 

 

 

Ammachi, "temba spirits" <tembaspirits@h...>

wrote:

>

> thankyou for sharing your beautiful words.again MOTHERS son would

like to

> say as they say in A.A lets be careful not to compare but to

indentify.you

> all keep saying this thing about racism being worse here or there

and then

> you conclude the conversation with this spiritaul stuff.AMMAs son

> appreciattes this,BUT PLEASE OPEN YOUR HEART TO THIS.most of the

kids in

> america have no idea of the racism in other countrys!at the most

they know

> about GHANDI.we must relate to our kids right here.a lot of black

and white

> kids in american are still very angry at the energy of racism and

the people

> that infuenced it.the other night AMMAs son was on the phone

talking to a a

> young white american devotee who cried to me because of the guilt

that she

> felt because of what her father did to black people .we should

talk to the

> children and teenagers and see what they have to say.we are all so

spiritual

> now and have almost lost touch of how the kids feel.there is alot

of dormant

> anger out there.if one of you had said that there was more racism

in these

> other places to someone who was AFRICAN AMERICAN around the time

of

> hurricane katrina they might have wanted to hurt you. we have

begun our

> healing process with this issue.we have MOTHER,however there are

thousands

> right here in the U.S.A and other places in the world that havent.

>

> now my brothers and sisters lets go to another level .do you all

realize

> that the prison systems in america are 95 percent filled with

blacks and

> hispanics.do you know that in the twentys,thirtys,fortys and

fiftys that

> that was the other way around.that is not a coincidence.that my

beautiful

> brothers and sisters is modern day slavery.do OUR BROTHERS AND

SISTERS WHO

> ARE IN JAIL NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THERE BEHAVIORS AND

CHANGE

> ?OFCOURSE THEY DO .MOTHERS son knows this first hand.it is cool

that there

> are african americans that are not victum conscious,but there are

many more

> that are. .prison systems in n.america being filld with 95 percent

blacks

> and hispanics is racism at its finest!there is the kaarma

explanation,but as

> AMMA has said, it is not our job to look at other peoples kaarma,

but to

> sympathize and help them the best way we can.are we that passed

our issues

> right here in AMERICA?95percent blacks and hispanics .MOTHERS son

doesnt

> think so.we are in america.we can change what is right here if we

will be

> strong enough to face it with the courage of OUR AMMA. ON THE

OTHER HAND ,TO

> KEEP SAYING WHAT IS WORSE SOMEWHERE ELSE IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING

THAT YOU

> DONT WANT TO DEAL WITH IT.AMMAs son totally respects that because

AMMA has

> taught him to respect his brothers and sisters fredom.with all

love and

> understanding,sincerley your brother and child OF AMMA,temba

>

>

> >"ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003>

> >Ammachi

> >Ammachi

> > Re: courageous conversation about race: always

two sides

> >for balance

> >Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:15:57 -0000

> >

> >My two cents worth: any conversation about race should be mature

and

> >balanced.....I find that these "conversations" can fall into

> >permanent victim stereotyping, labeling, and using emotional

> >hysterics instead of reasonable discussion.

> >

> >There are many reasons why black kids don't achieve on the level

of

> >other races as of yet, and it is not all about racism, not by a

long

> >shot. The atmosphere the parents provide at home is the most

> >important ingredient. Can the conversation also include the fact

> >that the welfare system has ravaged the black family? Amma herself

> >will not pamper her children at the Ashram, we all have to work

> >really hard to makes ends meet. Nobody is entitled to a perpetual

> >free ride. Otherwise, how would we grow? The black church I am

> >involved with in Virginia does not tolerate their congregation

> >viewing themselves as victims.

> >

> >When africans, west indians and other black people come to the US

> >today they thrive. I am friends with many africans because of my

> >involvement in the arts, and they do not have the fuming anger and

> >attitudinal, institutional resentment towards whites that I feel

> >from many of my college educated black friends.

> >

> >Racism in Africa, Japan, China, India, the middle East, France and

> >Germany is a far bigger problem than the US. Immigrants to the US

> >are far better off here than other countries of the world.

> >

> >We all know Amma is color blind, and that is the reality.

> >

> >Stereotyping any race is racism, including the stereotyping of

> >the "greedy corporate", "colonialist", "privileaged" white people.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Ammachi, "temba spirits"

<tembaspirits@h...>

> >wrote:

> > >

> > > actually this is not a courageous conversation about race

BUT," A

> >COURAGEOUS

> > > CONVERSATION ABOUT LOVE"

> > >

> > >

> > > >Kenna <itskenna@c...>

> > > >Ammachi

> > > ><Ammachi>

> > > > courageous conversation about race

> > > >Mon, 05 Dec 2005 01:59:00 -0600

> > > >

> > > >Namah Shivaya.

> > > >

> > > >Thanks Temba, Bela and Prasadini for jumping into what some

are

> >calling a

> > > >³Courageous Conversation about Race.²

> > > >

> > > >This conversation is being had in various school districts

> >throughout the

> > > >country to eliminate the achievement gap.

> > > >

> > > >Our local school district The Madison Public Schools are in

the

> >3rd year of

> > > >this conversation.

> > > >It is the only system in the nation to include all the

employees

> >from

> > > >teachers to lunch staff to maintenance people. The first year

> >some of the

> > > >African American employees walked out of the conversation due

to

> >extreme

> > > >frustration with the lack of understanding of racism by the

white

> > > >employees.

> > > >3 years later there is far greater understanding between the

> >white

> > > >employees

> > > >and the employes of color

> > > >and THE GAP IN READING ABILITY AMONG ALL 3RD GRADERS HAS BEEN

> >ELIMINATED

> > > >(by

> > > >Amma¹s grace).

> > > >

> > > >This child believes this conversation needs to happen in

> >communities all

> > > >over this country, including this one.

> > > >

> > > >Good background:

> > > >

> > > >* Peggy McIntosh¹s groundbreaking article on White Privilege

> > > >http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

> > > >

> > > >* The movie Crash (the most nondualistic, Hindu feeling film

> >this child

> > > >has

> > > >ever seen.)

> > > >

> > > >* The video ³Color of Fear²

> > > >www.stirfryseminars.com/pages/coloroffear.htm

> > > >

> > > >* The video ³The Way Home² by Shakti Butler

> > > >www.edchange.org/multicultural/reviews/f-thewayhome.html

> > > >

> > > >* A soon to be released video by Shakti Butler about White

> >Privilege

> > > >

> > > >* The PBS series on slavery and the making of America.

> > > >www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/

> > > >

> > > >May Amma grace flow to all our efforts in this conversation.

> > > >Jai Amma.

> > > >premarupa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > > > I used to attend an ashram near Oakland, CA. There were

quite

> > > > > a few African Americans who attended the ashram. I was not

> >aware of

> > > >racism,

> > > > > but then I'm white and maybe because I was not on the

> >receiving end I

> > > >missed

> > > > > it. Perhaps it also depends on where the ashram or

spiritual

> >community

> > > >is.

> > > > > If it is in a racially mixed area, maybe there would be

more

> >minorities

> > > > > participating. And the same for predominately white

areas.Just

> >my

> > > >thoughts.

> > > > > Prasadini

> > > > >

> > > > > temba spirits wrote:

> > > > >> > someone told AMMAs son on the phone today that the

issue of

> >racism

> > > >amongs

> > > > >> > spiritual circles is being smered over.it was

interesting

> >that as an

> > > > >> african

> > > > >> > american ,AMMAs son had to comfort a white american.she

was

> >very

> > > > >> upset.tried

> > > > >> > to give her the universal love conversation but she

wasnt

> >trying to

> > > >hear

> > > > >> > it.dont get me wrong, the conversation was great.just

> >wandering if

> > > >anyone

> > > > >> alse

> > > > >> > had a perspective on this topic..MOTHERS son has been

> >treated a

> > > >little

> > > > >> > strangly while chanting in certain circles.wont say

there

> >names .that

> > > >is

> > > > >> not

> > > > >> > important.wondering also if anyone ever wondered why

there

> >arent more

> > > > >> > blackpeople and hispanic people in some of these

> >circles.AMMAs son is

> > > > >> asking

> > > > >> > because he is not aftraid to be real,but also,want to

get a

> >deeper

> > > > >> > understanding.figure we are all brothers and sisters and

> >could open

> > > >this

> > > > >> can

> > > > >> > of worms.namahashivaya.

> > > > >> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

_______________

> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> >it's FREE!

> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _______________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

it's FREE!

> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

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Namah Shivaya,

 

Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13 years and

I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of blacks in

housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white this has

been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really put

yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of that

vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't make

judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

 

Ravi

 

Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003> wrote:

>

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing these

> issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to suggest that

> the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

> minded.

>

> People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

> times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes. Could the

> the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there be

> better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in jail?

> yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our dharma.

>

> But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> dharmic behavior?

>

> A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering to and

> encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I believe

> these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the white

> people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich white

> people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave well

> or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white man's

> government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these communities

> pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach them to

> channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits in with

> some people's political power agendas and so they encourage it. What

> about the responsiblity for each of us in making good positive

> choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> community where these children were raised? What about good old

> fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and PERSONAL

> responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

>

> To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political power

> seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other low level

> behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages us to

> adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give, not to

> cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be given

> more and more.

>

> This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor black folks

> lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community suggested that a

> white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering peace and

> brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a hurricane wiped

> out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of whom to

> this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> government. Was that racism?

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Thank you for speaking out on this, Ravi.

 

 

On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

 

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13 years and

> I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of blacks in

> housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white this has

> been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really put

> yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of that

> vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't make

> judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

>

> Ravi

>

> Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing these

> > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to suggest that

> > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

> > minded.

> >

> > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

> > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes. Could the

> > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there be

> > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in jail?

> > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our dharma.

> >

> > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > dharmic behavior?

> >

> >  A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering to and

> > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I believe

> > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the white

> > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich white

> > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave well

> > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white man's

> > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these communities

> > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach them to

> > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits in with

> > some people's political power agendas and so they encourage it. What

> > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good positive

> > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > community where these children were raised? What about good old

> > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and PERSONAL

> > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> >

> >  To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political power

> > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other low level

> > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages us to

> > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give, not to

> > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be given

> > more and more.

> >

> > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor black folks

> > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community suggested that a

> > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering peace and

> > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a hurricane wiped

> > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of whom to

> > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > government. Was that racism?

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

>  

> ▪  

>  Ammachi

>  

> ▪   Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

 

 

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Namah Shivaya,

 

Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy. And, that it

causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we overcome that, then many pother

problems will decline? Something like that. Even family's of terrorists in

the middle east, are paid large sums of money for a suicide bomber's act.

Maybe ending poverty would be the best way to end even terrorism.

 

Environment is so very important. Doesn't Krishna say in the Bhagavadgita,

that satsang is the quickest way to enlightenment? If the company of a saint

helps us so much, it makes sense that the company of a down fallen person, can

also lead us that way. Working in a drug rehab, located near one of the most

drug infested locations of my county, it's clearly obvious the struggle that

environment places on people. We tend to act like those with whom we're

surrounded, influencing eachother's behaviors & values.

 

How many parents would choose to raise their children, especially teenagers,

in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested neighorhoods & schools? It's common

sense that teens can be easily influenced by their peers. It's true of every

age group, to some extent.

 

My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not have a clue

on how to behave "successfully." Resources & role models can make a

difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model, is one reason I'm looking

forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's desire to bring more people who have

been through what he' experienced, to see Her. I appreciate Ravi's objective

perspective.

 

It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit industry in tmy

state of residence, California. It seems that the U.S.'s prison system isn't a

conspiracy against people of color, but more aptly against people of poverty.

 

Sweta

 

Ardis Jackson <ardis1 wrote: Thank you for speaking out on

this, Ravi.

 

 

On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

 

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13 years and

> I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of blacks in

> housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white this has

...to suggest that

> > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

> > minded.

> >

> > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

> > times.

 

 

 

 

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thankyou for giving your perspective on this topic.it is great that we are

all listening to each other and sharing.to share from the heart is to love

and AMMAs son thanksyou for loving him through this form of

sharing.everyones perspective has its purpose.MOTHERS son would like to ask

you a question.are you saying that there are more crimes commited by blacks

and hispanics and that is why the prisons are more filled with blacks and

hispanics?are you buying into that?is that what you are saying my beautiful

brother?do you think that 95 percent of the crimes in america are commited

by AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANIC AMERICANS?THAT PERCENTAGE IS WAY OFF.HAVE

YOU EVER BEEN IN A COURTROOM AND WITNESSED WITH YOUR OWN EYES HOW A WHITE

AMERICAN IS TREATED VERSES HOW A AFRICAN AMERICAN OR HISPANIC AMERICAN IS

TREATED.HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO THE TRIAL OF AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WHO IS

ACCUSED OF MURDER AND SOMEHOW THERE SEEMS TO MYSTICALLY ONLY BE MIDDLE AGE

WHITE AMERICANS ON THE JURY?MOTHERS SON HAS.

DID YOU KNOW THAT THIS AFRICAN AMERICAN WAS A DEVOTEE OF OUR BELOVED AMMA?DO

YOU KNOW WHO MICHAEL MOORE IS MY BELOVED BROTHER?AMMAs son is not talking

about the other MICHAEL MOORE.AMMAS son is talking about MICHAEL MOORE a

dedicated devotee of MATA-AMRITANANDA MAYI.do you think that was a

coincidence that MICHAEL MOORES JURY WAS ALL WHITE AMERICANS ?MOTHERS son

was in the courtroom in the audience when our beloved brother was on

trial.MOTHERS son is not angry at anyone,however, he is not blinded

either.there is a "poverty" factor here because if his family had of had

money,then maybe they could have got him a lawyer.MOTHERS son never asked

OUR BROTHER MICHAEL IF HE ACTUALLY DID THE CRIME.MOTHERS son wasnt concerned

with that.AMMAS son was only concerned with loving him the best way he

could.AMMAs son wasnt in the courtroom with MICHAEL waving picket signs

about racism in AMERICA,however, he did see the reality of racism there.why

is it so hard to accept this my beautiful brothers and sisters?why is it so

hard to see the "relative reality" of this?you all think that there is no

racism still left in AMERICA?TELL THAT TO AMMAs sons father who has talked

to him repeatedly over the years about how young white american men have

over and over again been promoted over him when he was more then quilified

as well as had senority.AMERICA my have improved where racism is

concerned.AMMAS son agrees with that,but to deny its existence is to simply

not understand.you all are speaking mostly from the outside looking in.to

see through the eyes of someone else is a rare gift.can you see through

these eyes my beautiful brothers and sisters?AMMAS son is a universal being

in the body of a blackman.we are all DIVINE relfections of the same PURE

LOVE that we know in our hearts as AMMA.WE UNDERSTAND THIS but do you really

believe that everyone elso does in AMERICA?DO YOU BELIEVE THAT sense the

sixtys racism just got cured?please open up your heart and try to see what

is really being said here.AMMAS son is not saying that there should be some

different form of justice for AFRICAN or HISPANIC AMERICANS.this is a

question of simple empathy.AMMAs son bows to all of your perspectives and

thanksyou with all of his heart fro be so open with what you feal.THIS to

AMMAs son is DIVINE.NAMAH SHIVAYA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

>Sweta Mitzel <swetabc

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:37:01 -0800 (PST)

>

>Namah Shivaya,

>

> Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy. And,

>that it causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we overcome that,

>then many pother problems will decline? Something like that. Even

>family's of terrorists in the middle east, are paid large sums of money

>for a suicide bomber's act. Maybe ending poverty would be the best way to

>end even terrorism.

>

> Environment is so very important. Doesn't Krishna say in the

>Bhagavadgita, that satsang is the quickest way to enlightenment? If the

>company of a saint helps us so much, it makes sense that the company of a

>down fallen person, can also lead us that way. Working in a drug rehab,

>located near one of the most drug infested locations of my county, it's

>clearly obvious the struggle that environment places on people. We tend to

>act like those with whom we're surrounded, influencing eachother's

>behaviors & values.

>

> How many parents would choose to raise their children, especially

>teenagers, in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested neighorhoods &

>schools? It's common sense that teens can be easily influenced by their

>peers. It's true of every age group, to some extent.

>

> My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not have a

>clue on how to behave "successfully." Resources & role models can make a

>difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model, is one reason I'm

>looking forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's desire to bring more people

>who have been through what he' experienced, to see Her. I appreciate

>Ravi's objective perspective.

>

> It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit industry

>in tmy state of residence, California. It seems that the U.S.'s prison

>system isn't a conspiracy against people of color, but more aptly against

>people of poverty.

>

> Sweta

>

>Ardis Jackson <ardis1 wrote: Thank you for speaking

>out on this, Ravi.

>

>

> On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

>

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13 years

>and

> > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of blacks

>in

> > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white this has

>..to suggest that

> > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

> > > minded.

> > >

> > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

> > > times.

>

>

>

>

> Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

 

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Posted
Posted

OM NAMAH SIVAYA

 

not only are the prisons for profit many of them are public

companies trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Complete with

lobbyist in Washington helping to form our policies. and now

corporate America is beginning to outsource prison labor. it is a

home grown source of cheap labor. slave labor one could say. while

the sixth amendment grants everyone the right to counsel, i would

not want to rely on a public defender to represent my interests. i

once had to spend several thousand dollars for attorney's fees and

was only being "interviewed" by the Feds. friends in the same

situation without resources for representation had a very different

interviewing process. without funds you are definitely guaranteed a

speedy trial, though it may not have the outcome one would desire.

 

JAI MA

 

 

 

Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc> wrote:

>

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy.

And, that it causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we

overcome that, then many pother problems will decline? Something

like that. Even family's of terrorists in the middle east, are

paid large sums of money for a suicide bomber's act. Maybe ending

poverty would be the best way to end even terrorism.

>

> Environment is so very important. Doesn't Krishna say in the

Bhagavadgita, that satsang is the quickest way to enlightenment?

If the company of a saint helps us so much, it makes sense that the

company of a down fallen person, can also lead us that way.

Working in a drug rehab, located near one of the most drug infested

locations of my county, it's clearly obvious the struggle that

environment places on people. We tend to act like those with whom

we're surrounded, influencing eachother's behaviors & values.

>

> How many parents would choose to raise their children,

especially teenagers, in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested

neighorhoods & schools? It's common sense that teens can be

easily influenced by their peers. It's true of every age group, to

some extent.

>

> My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not

have a clue on how to behave "successfully." Resources & role

models can make a difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model,

is one reason I'm looking forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's

desire to bring more people who have been through what he'

experienced, to see Her. I appreciate Ravi's objective perspective.

>

> It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit

industry in tmy state of residence, California. It seems that the

U.S.'s prison system isn't a conspiracy against people of color,

but more aptly against people of poverty.

>

> Sweta

>

> Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: Thank you for speaking

out on this, Ravi.

>

>

> On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

>

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

years and

> > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

blacks in

> > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

this has

> ..to suggest that

> > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

not fair

> > > minded.

> > >

> > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

multiple

> > > times.

>

>

>

>

> Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Another aspect of these corporate for-profit prisons is that prisoners

can be "sold" in blocks from one state to another. A large group of

prisoners from Alaska are now incarcerated in Arizona because the

corporate prison gave Alaska a deal that they could not match

dollarwise within the state. Now the prisoners are incarcerated in

Arizona where they have no friends or family to visit them. The rate

of depression and suicide is very high.

 

 

On Dec 7, 2005, at 6:31 AM, ecjensen_us wrote:

 

> OM NAMAH SIVAYA

>

> not only are the prisons for profit many of them are public

> companies trading on the New York Stock Exchange.  Complete with

> lobbyist in Washington helping to form our policies.  and now

> corporate America is beginning to outsource prison labor.  it is a

> home grown source of cheap labor.  slave labor one could say.  while

> the sixth amendment grants everyone the right to counsel,  i would

> not want to rely on a public defender to represent my interests.  i

> once had to spend several thousand dollars for attorney's fees and

> was only being "interviewed" by the Feds.  friends in the same

> situation without resources for representation had a very different

> interviewing process. without funds you are definitely guaranteed a

> speedy trial, though it may not have the outcome one would desire.

>

> JAI MA

>

>

>

> Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >  

> >   Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy.

> And,  that it causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we

> overcome that,  then many pother problems will decline?  Something

> like  that.  Even family's of terrorists in the middle east, are

> paid  large sums of money for a suicide bomber's act.  Maybe ending 

> poverty would be the best way to end even terrorism. 

> >  

> >   Environment is so very important.  Doesn't Krishna say in the 

> Bhagavadgita, that satsang is the quickest way to  enlightenment?  

> If the company of a saint helps us so much,  it makes sense that the

> company of a down fallen person, can also lead  us that way. 

> Working in a drug rehab, located near one of the  most drug infested

> locations of my county, it's clearly obvious the  struggle that

> environment places on people. We tend to act like those  with whom

> we're surrounded, influencing eachother's behaviors &  values. 

> >  

> >   How many parents would choose to raise their children,

> especially  teenagers, in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested

> neighorhoods  & schools?  It's common sense that teens can be

> easily  influenced by their peers.  It's true of every age group, to

> some  extent. 

> >  

> >   My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not

> have a  clue on how to behave "successfully."  Resources & role

> models  can make a difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model,

> is one  reason I'm looking forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's

> desire to  bring more people who have been through what he'

> experienced, to see  Her.  I appreciate Ravi's objective perspective.

> >  

> >   It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit

> industry  in tmy state of residence, California.  It seems that the

> U.S.'s  prison system isn't a conspiracy against people of color,

> but more  aptly against people of poverty.

> >  

> >   Sweta

> >

> > Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote:          Thank you for speaking

> out on this, Ravi.

> >  

> >  

> >   On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

> >  

> >   > Namah Shivaya,

> >   >

> >   >  Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

> years and

> >   >  I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

> blacks in

> >   >  housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

> this has

> > ..to suggest that

> >   >  > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

> not fair

> >   >  > minded.

> >   >  >

> >   >  > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

> multiple

> >   >  > times.

> >

> >

> >                  

> >

> > Shopping

> >  Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

> >

> >

> >

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Mata amritanandamayi

>

>

>

>

>

> ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

>  

> ▪  

>  Ammachi

>  

> ▪   Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

 

 

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Posted
Posted

SWETA there is plenty of money in AMMAS son neighborhood,but because of the

"SPIRITUAL POVERTY" that exist,the money is being spent in the wrong

ways.this is what MOTHER TERESA SAID ABOUT HER EXPERIENCE IN THE CITY SLUMBS

OF N.AMERICA.SHE ACTUALLY SAYS ON A DOCUMENTARY THAT THIS TYPE OF SPIRITUAL

POVERTY THAT SHE EXPERIENCED IN N.AMERICA WAS WORSE.WHO IS TO SAY WHAT IS

WORSE?AMMAS son soes noT know,however this is just food for thought.TRUE

LOVE my sister.

 

 

>"ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

> Re: courageous conversation about race: always two sides

>for balance

>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:31:06 -0000

>

>OM NAMAH SIVAYA

>

>not only are the prisons for profit many of them are public

>companies trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Complete with

>lobbyist in Washington helping to form our policies. and now

>corporate America is beginning to outsource prison labor. it is a

>home grown source of cheap labor. slave labor one could say. while

>the sixth amendment grants everyone the right to counsel, i would

>not want to rely on a public defender to represent my interests. i

>once had to spend several thousand dollars for attorney's fees and

>was only being "interviewed" by the Feds. friends in the same

>situation without resources for representation had a very different

>interviewing process. without funds you are definitely guaranteed a

>speedy trial, though it may not have the outcome one would desire.

>

>JAI MA

>

>

>

>Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy.

>And, that it causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we

>overcome that, then many pother problems will decline? Something

>like that. Even family's of terrorists in the middle east, are

>paid large sums of money for a suicide bomber's act. Maybe ending

>poverty would be the best way to end even terrorism.

> >

> > Environment is so very important. Doesn't Krishna say in the

>Bhagavadgita, that satsang is the quickest way to enlightenment?

>If the company of a saint helps us so much, it makes sense that the

>company of a down fallen person, can also lead us that way.

>Working in a drug rehab, located near one of the most drug infested

>locations of my county, it's clearly obvious the struggle that

>environment places on people. We tend to act like those with whom

>we're surrounded, influencing eachother's behaviors & values.

> >

> > How many parents would choose to raise their children,

>especially teenagers, in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested

>neighorhoods & schools? It's common sense that teens can be

>easily influenced by their peers. It's true of every age group, to

>some extent.

> >

> > My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not

>have a clue on how to behave "successfully." Resources & role

>models can make a difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model,

>is one reason I'm looking forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's

>desire to bring more people who have been through what he'

>experienced, to see Her. I appreciate Ravi's objective perspective.

> >

> > It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit

>industry in tmy state of residence, California. It seems that the

>U.S.'s prison system isn't a conspiracy against people of color,

>but more aptly against people of poverty.

> >

> > Sweta

> >

> > Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: Thank you for speaking

>out on this, Ravi.

> >

> >

> > On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

> >

> > > Namah Shivaya,

> > >

> > > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

>years and

> > > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

>blacks in

> > > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

>this has

> > ..to suggest that

> > > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

>not fair

> > > > minded.

> > > >

> > > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

>multiple

> > > > times.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Shopping

> > Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

 

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Posted
Posted

AMMAs son bows to these words.

 

 

>Sweta Mitzel <swetabc

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:37:01 -0800 (PST)

>

>Namah Shivaya,

>

> Doesn't Amma say something like, poverty is our greatest enemy. And,

>that it causes so many of societiy's ills; that once we overcome that,

>then many pother problems will decline? Something like that. Even

>family's of terrorists in the middle east, are paid large sums of money

>for a suicide bomber's act. Maybe ending poverty would be the best way to

>end even terrorism.

>

> Environment is so very important. Doesn't Krishna say in the

>Bhagavadgita, that satsang is the quickest way to enlightenment? If the

>company of a saint helps us so much, it makes sense that the company of a

>down fallen person, can also lead us that way. Working in a drug rehab,

>located near one of the most drug infested locations of my county, it's

>clearly obvious the struggle that environment places on people. We tend to

>act like those with whom we're surrounded, influencing eachother's

>behaviors & values.

>

> How many parents would choose to raise their children, especially

>teenagers, in poverty stricken, drug & crime infested neighorhoods &

>schools? It's common sense that teens can be easily influenced by their

>peers. It's true of every age group, to some extent.

>

> My work exposes me to many low income people, who appear to not have a

>clue on how to behave "successfully." Resources & role models can make a

>difference. Since Amma is the perfect role model, is one reason I'm

>looking forward to Amma's blessing on Themba's desire to bring more people

>who have been through what he' experienced, to see Her. I appreciate

>Ravi's objective perspective.

>

> It's my understanding that prisons are the largest for profit industry

>in tmy state of residence, California. It seems that the U.S.'s prison

>system isn't a conspiracy against people of color, but more aptly against

>people of poverty.

>

> Sweta

>

>Ardis Jackson <ardis1 wrote: Thank you for speaking

>out on this, Ravi.

>

>

> On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:

>

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13 years

>and

> > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of blacks

>in

> > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white this has

>..to suggest that

> > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is not fair

> > > minded.

> > >

> > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes, multiple

> > > times.

>

>

>

>

> Shopping

> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Shopping

>

>

>

 

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Posted
Posted

prisons for profit -- the new plantations

 

ecjensen_us wrote:

> OM NAMAH SIVAYA

>

> not only are the prisons for profit many of them are public

> companies trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Complete with

> lobbyist in Washington helping to form our policies. and now

> corporate America is beginning to outsource prison labor. it is a

> home grown source of cheap labor. slave labor one could say. while

> the sixth amendment grants everyone the right to counsel, i would

> not want to rely on a public defender to represent my interests. i

> once had to spend several thousand dollars for attorney's fees and

> was only being "interviewed" by the Feds. friends in the same

> situation without resources for representation had a very different

> interviewing process. without funds you are definitely guaranteed a

> speedy trial, though it may not have the outcome one would desire.

>

> JAI MA

 

--

"Naan Amme Snehikkunnu"

Be Love,

Egyirba

http://www.egyirba.net

 

-=-=-

....

Children, these bodies of ours are not eternal. They can perish at any

moment. We are born as human beings after countless other births. If we

waste this life living like animals, we will have to be born again as

animals before attaining another human birth. --Mata Amritanandamayi

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Posted
Posted

Namah Shivaya.

This child is moaning at this sad news.

Please can we put these children on our prayer list?

May Amma¹s grace flow to all these efforts to reveal the real Love we all

are.

premarupa

 

> Another aspect of these corporate for-profit prisons is that prisoners

> can be "sold" in blocks from one state to another. A large group of

> prisoners from Alaska are now incarcerated in Arizona because the

> corporate prison gave Alaska a deal that they could not match

> dollarwise within the state. Now the prisoners are incarcerated in

> Arizona where they have no friends or family to visit them. The rate

> of depression and suicide is very high.

>

>

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

i wonder what would happen if you really did put incarcerated people (no

matter the crime) on our prayer list -- literally or even figuratively

speaking. it should cause a change in us--deeper levels of compassion

to bloom--as well as benefit these souls.

 

 

 

Kenna wrote:

> Namah Shivaya.

> This child is moaning at this sad news.

> Please can we put these children on our prayer list?

> May Amma¹s grace flow to all these efforts to reveal the real Love we all

> are.

> premarupa

>

>

>> Another aspect of these corporate for-profit prisons is that prisoners

>> can be "sold" in blocks from one state to another. A large group of

>> prisoners from Alaska are now incarcerated in Arizona because the

>> corporate prison gave Alaska a deal that they could not match

>> dollarwise within the state. Now the prisoners are incarcerated in

>> Arizona where they have no friends or family to visit them. The rate

>> of depression and suicide is very high.

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Posted
Posted

Hey Ravi,

 

you obviously do not know how section 8 housing works.

Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere ....these projects were

created by liberal -socialist folks who wanted to help the low

income people.....with section 8 people can live very very

inexpensively...but I agree it is a vicious cycle and should not

exist...but, NO oNE ForCES ANYONE TO LIVE THERE....I say get

a job and pay your own rent

 

 

Ammachi, "Ravi Chivukula" <

ravichivukula@h...> wrote:

>

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

years and

> I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

blacks in

> housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

this has

> been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really

put

> yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of

that

> vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't

make

> judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

>

> Ravi

>

> Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <

ckeniley2003> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing

these

> > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to

suggest that

> > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

not fair

> > minded.

> >

> > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

multiple

> > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes.

Could the

> > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there

be

> > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in

jail?

> > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our

dharma.

> >

> > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > dharmic behavior?

> >

> > A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering

to and

> > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I

believe

> > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the

white

> > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich

white

> > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave

well

> > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white

man's

> > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these

communities

> > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach

them to

> > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits

in with

> > some people's political power agendas and so they

encourage it. What

> > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good

positive

> > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > community where these children were raised? What about

good old

> > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and

PERSONAL

> > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> >

> > To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political

power

> > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other

low level

> > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages

us to

> > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give,

not to

> > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be

given

> > more and more.

> >

> > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor

black folks

> > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community

suggested that a

> > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering

peace and

> > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a

hurricane wiped

> > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of

whom to

> > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > government. Was that racism?

> >

> >

>

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ckeniley2003,

 

It seems that you have totally missed out on Amma's messages about

greed and poverty and the need for compassion.

 

 

On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:04 PM, ckeniley2003 wrote:

 

> Hey Ravi,

>

> you obviously do not know how section 8 housing works.

> Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere ....these projects were

> created by liberal -socialist folks who wanted to help the low

> income people.....with section 8 people can live very very

> inexpensively...but I agree it is a vicious cycle and should not

> exist...but,  NO oNE ForCES ANYONE TO LIVE THERE....I say get

> a job and pay your own rent

>

>

> Ammachi, "Ravi Chivukula" <

> ravichivukula@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

> years and

> > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

> blacks in

> > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

> this has

> > been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really

> put

> > yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of

> that

> > vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't

> make

> > judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

> >

> > Ravi

> >

> > Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <

> ckeniley2003> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namah Shivaya,

> > >

> > > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing

> these

> > > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to

> suggest that

> > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

> not fair

> > > minded.

> > >

> > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

> multiple

> > > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes.

> Could the

> > > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there

> be

> > > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in

> jail?

> > > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our

> dharma.

> > >

> > > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > > dharmic behavior?

> > >

> > >  A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering

> to and

> > > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I

> believe

> > > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the

> white

> > > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich

> white

> > > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave

> well

> > > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white

> man's

> > > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these

> communities

> > > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach

> them to

> > > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits

> in with

> > > some people's political power agendas and so they

> encourage it. What

> > > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good

> positive

> > > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > > community where these children were raised? What about

> good old

> > > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and

> PERSONAL

> > > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> > >

> > >  To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political

> power

> > > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other

> low level

> > > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages

> us to

> > > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give,

> not to

> > > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be

> given

> > > more and more.

> > >

> > > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor

> black folks

> > > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community

> suggested that a

> > > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering

> peace and

> > > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a

> hurricane wiped

> > > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of

> whom to

> > > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > > government. Was that racism?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

>  

> ▪  

>  Ammachi

>  

> ▪   Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

 

 

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Posted
Posted

dear AMMAs children.lets be as kind towards one another as possible when

making our comments.we are doing this to gain greater awareness in order

that we can become more effective in our love for one another.there must be

thousands of statements said by AMMA TO BACK THIS UP.its not about being

right.its about gaining a deeper understanding.we may not be im AMMAS

PHYSICAL PRESENCE,HOWEVER WE ARE STILL IN HER PRESENCE.REMEMBER AMMA IS

WATCHING.AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,LOVE,LOVE,LOVE,LOVE,LOVE,LOVE,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,M\

AAAAAAAAAAAAAOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

 

>"ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

> Re: courageous conversation about race: always two sides

>for balance

>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 01:04:11 -0000

>

>Hey Ravi,

>

>you obviously do not know how section 8 housing works.

>Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere ....these projects were

>created by liberal -socialist folks who wanted to help the low

>income people.....with section 8 people can live very very

>inexpensively...but I agree it is a vicious cycle and should not

>exist...but, NO oNE ForCES ANYONE TO LIVE THERE....I say get

>a job and pay your own rent

>

>

>Ammachi, "Ravi Chivukula" <

>ravichivukula@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

>years and

> > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

>blacks in

> > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

>this has

> > been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really

>put

> > yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of

>that

> > vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't

>make

> > judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

> >

> > Ravi

> >

> > Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <

>ckeniley2003> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namah Shivaya,

> > >

> > > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing

>these

> > > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to

>suggest that

> > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

>not fair

> > > minded.

> > >

> > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

>multiple

> > > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes.

>Could the

> > > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there

>be

> > > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in

>jail?

> > > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our

>dharma.

> > >

> > > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > > dharmic behavior?

> > >

> > > A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering

>to and

> > > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I

>believe

> > > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the

>white

> > > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich

>white

> > > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave

>well

> > > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white

>man's

> > > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these

>communities

> > > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach

>them to

> > > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits

>in with

> > > some people's political power agendas and so they

>encourage it. What

> > > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good

>positive

> > > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > > community where these children were raised? What about

>good old

> > > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and

>PERSONAL

> > > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> > >

> > > To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political

>power

> > > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other

>low level

> > > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages

>us to

> > > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give,

>not to

> > > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be

>given

> > > more and more.

> > >

> > > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor

>black folks

> > > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community

>suggested that a

> > > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering

>peace and

> > > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a

>hurricane wiped

> > > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of

>whom to

> > > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > > government. Was that racism?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

 

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Namah Shivaya,

I have a couple of friends who are living in Section 8 housing due to

disability - and I wouldn't want to be in their position. First of all,

you get what you get - and it's not pretty. Secondly, they have to, on

demand, account for every penny they spend on medical care, food,

utilities, etc. Then go into the HUD office, whether they are horribly

sick that day or not, with all of their receipts and prove that they

need to continue with Section 8 housing.

 

As for the cycle of poverty, well it's not that easy to get out of. I

can't really speak for it, because, due to Mother's grace, I have not

had to experience it in this lifetime. But it seems that if a person

grows up in the "urban jungle" that there is a mindset that keeps you

stuck - that's just my take on it. I have known people who have grown up

dirt poor who have been able to get out of it, and their siblings are

still living hand to mouth. I can't tell you what the difference is.

Somehow they felt empowered to get an education and pull themselves up.

If a person does not feel empowered, they accept things as they are and

give up.

 

I don['t know what the answer is , but I really don't think the poor

enjoy being poor. And from what I've been told by people who've been

there, life in the projects is pretty nasty. I also think there are some

minority groups we owe a big debt to. Just my 2 cents.

 

Jai Ma!

Prasadini

 

 

Ardis Jackson wrote:

> ckeniley2003,

>

> It seems that you have totally missed out on Amma's messages about

> greed and poverty and the need for compassion.

>

>

> On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:04 PM, ckeniley2003 wrote:

>

> > Hey Ravi,

> >

> > you obviously do not know how section 8 housing works.

> > Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere ....these projects were

> > created by liberal -socialist folks who wanted to help the low

> > income people.....with section 8 people can live very very

> > inexpensively...but I agree it is a vicious cycle and should not

> > exist...but, NO oNE ForCES ANYONE TO LIVE THERE....I say get

> > a job and pay your own rent

> >

> >

> > Ammachi, "Ravi Chivukula" <

> > ravichivukula@h...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namah Shivaya,

> > >

> > > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

> > years and

> > > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

> > blacks in

> > > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

> > this has

> > > been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really

> > put

> > > yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of

> > that

> > > vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't

> > make

> > > judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

> > >

> > > Ravi

> > >

> > > Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <

> > ckeniley2003> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > >

> > > > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing

> > these

> > > > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to

> > suggest that

> > > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

> > not fair

> > > > minded.

> > > >

> > > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

> > multiple

> > > > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes.

> > Could the

> > > > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there

> > be

> > > > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in

> > jail?

> > > > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our

> > dharma.

> > > >

> > > > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > > > dharmic behavior?

> > > >

> > > > A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering

> > to and

> > > > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I

> > believe

> > > > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the

> > white

> > > > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich

> > white

> > > > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave

> > well

> > > > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white

> > man's

> > > > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these

> > communities

> > > > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach

> > them to

> > > > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits

> > in with

> > > > some people's political power agendas and so they

> > encourage it. What

> > > > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good

> > positive

> > > > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > > > community where these children were raised? What about

> > good old

> > > > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and

> > PERSONAL

> > > > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> > > >

> > > > To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > > > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political

> > power

> > > > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > > > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other

> > low level

> > > > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages

> > us to

> > > > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give,

> > not to

> > > > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be

> > given

> > > > more and more.

> > > >

> > > > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor

> > black folks

> > > > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community

> > suggested that a

> > > > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering

> > peace and

> > > > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a

> > hurricane wiped

> > > > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of

> > whom to

> > > > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > > > government. Was that racism?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > â–ª Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

> >

> > â–ª

> > Ammachi

> >

> > â–ª

> Terms of

> > Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

>

> ------

>

>

> * Visit your group "Ammachi

> <Ammachi>" on the web.

>

> *

> Ammachi

> <Ammachi?subject=Un>

>

> * Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------

>

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

its similar to spiritual practices.some devotees are content with a certain

level of spiritual growth and some are not.just as there are factors that

keep the spiritual aspirant stuck at a certain level ,it is the same with

someone in this situation.the details may be different ,however if we look

closer at our own inner struggles we very likely will find that we are more

alike then different.AMMAs son has lived in the projects and has also lived

in low income areas most of his life,however AMMA has done something to this

heart that allows it to see and experience hope.as far as the poverty

mentalllity goes.AMMA HAS GIVEN US THE SOLUTION TO EVERY PROBLEM IN

EXISTENCE AND THAT IS SIMPLE ACTS OF KINDESS AND LOVE.WE COULD SPEND AN

ENTIRE YEAR TALKING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT AND THAT IS COOL,however as we come

up with solutions we should begin implimenting them.IF WE DONT,THEN WHAT WAS

THE POINT IN TALKING ABOUT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!AMMA S SON BELIEVES THESE

THINGS ARE BEING DISCUSSED SO THAT LIKE OUR MOTHER WE CAN BECOME EXAMPLES

OF" ACTION."AMMAs son use to be upset and use to ask why things were like

they were,but then THE MOTHER WITHIN him started asking a deeper question,

which is,"WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT".WE ALL CAN DO

MORE,however that is an individual choice.ITS FINE TO BE INSPIRED ,HOWEVER

INSPIRATION SHOULD BE FOLLOWED BY ACTION.ACTION TO LOVE.AMMAS son does not

believe that we are discussing this stuff only for us.AMMAs son beleives

that it really isnt ABOUT HIM,IT IS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO SERVE SOMEONE ELSE

ON AN EVEN GREATER LEVEL. namah shivaya.

 

 

>Prasadini <ganesh1008

>Ammachi

>Ammachi

>Re: Re: courageous conversation about race: always two

>sides for balance

>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:29:34 -0800

>

>Namah Shivaya,

>I have a couple of friends who are living in Section 8 housing due to

>disability - and I wouldn't want to be in their position. First of all,

>you get what you get - and it's not pretty. Secondly, they have to, on

>demand, account for every penny they spend on medical care, food,

>utilities, etc. Then go into the HUD office, whether they are horribly

>sick that day or not, with all of their receipts and prove that they

>need to continue with Section 8 housing.

>

>As for the cycle of poverty, well it's not that easy to get out of. I

>can't really speak for it, because, due to Mother's grace, I have not

>had to experience it in this lifetime. But it seems that if a person

>grows up in the "urban jungle" that there is a mindset that keeps you

>stuck - that's just my take on it. I have known people who have grown up

>dirt poor who have been able to get out of it, and their siblings are

>still living hand to mouth. I can't tell you what the difference is.

>Somehow they felt empowered to get an education and pull themselves up.

>If a person does not feel empowered, they accept things as they are and

>give up.

>

>I don['t know what the answer is , but I really don't think the poor

>enjoy being poor. And from what I've been told by people who've been

>there, life in the projects is pretty nasty. I also think there are some

>minority groups we owe a big debt to. Just my 2 cents.

>

>Jai Ma!

>Prasadini

>

>

>Ardis Jackson wrote:

> > ckeniley2003,

> >

> > It seems that you have totally missed out on Amma's messages about

> > greed and poverty and the need for compassion.

> >

> >

> > On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:04 PM, ckeniley2003 wrote:

> >

> > > Hey Ravi,

> > >

> > > you obviously do not know how section 8 housing works.

> > > Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere ....these projects were

> > > created by liberal -socialist folks who wanted to help the low

> > > income people.....with section 8 people can live very very

> > > inexpensively...but I agree it is a vicious cycle and should not

> > > exist...but, NO oNE ForCES ANYONE TO LIVE THERE....I say get

> > > a job and pay your own rent

> > >

> > >

> > > Ammachi, "Ravi Chivukula" <

> > > ravichivukula@h...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > >

> > > > Do you live in the U.S ? I have been in the US since last 13

> > > years and

> > > > I have witnessed the systematic/methodical discrimination of

> > > blacks in

> > > > housing projects - and mind you I am neither black nor white

> > > this has

> > > > been my observation as a neutral person. You have to really

> > > put

> > > > yourself to be in their shoes and see how hard it is get out of

> > > that

> > > > vicious cycle. If you cannot sympathize with them at least don't

> > > make

> > > > judgements based on your limited and narrow understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Ravi

> > > >

> > > > Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <

> > > ckeniley2003> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namah Shivaya,

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe it is important to be balanced when discussing

> > > these

> > > > > issues and not rely on emotionalism and stereotypes..to

> > > suggest that

> > > > > the prison system is a conspiracy agaisnt black people is

> > > not fair

> > > > > minded.

> > > > >

> > > > > People go to prison because they are caught doing crimes,

> > > multiple

> > > > > times. Could the criminal justice system be better? yes.

> > > Could the

> > > > > the prison terms for drug dealing be less? yes. Could there

> > > be

> > > > > better ways of dealing with young folks than throwing them in

> > > jail?

> > > > > yes. These are battles we should all take up if it is our

> > > dharma.

> > > > >

> > > > > But what are the cultural roots of people choosing crime over

> > > > > dharmic behavior?

> > > > >

> > > > > A huge part of this is institutionalized anger and pandering

> > > to and

> > > > > encouraging this anger by leaders in those communities. I

> > > believe

> > > > > these types of attitudes are also racism: "Lets all blame the

> > > white

> > > > > people and get angry. United states is controlled by rich

> > > white

> > > > > people. If I study or get a job Im an uncle tom. I wont behave

> > > well

> > > > > or participate because I am not a slave to old dead white

> > > man's

> > > > > government etc etc etc." Should the leaders of these

> > > communities

> > > > > pander to the anger of young people or be leaders and teach

> > > them to

> > > > > channel their energies in a more constructive way? This fits

> > > in with

> > > > > some people's political power agendas and so they

> > > encourage it. What

> > > > > about the responsiblity for each of us in making good

> > > positive

> > > > > choices? What about the responsiblity of the parents and the

> > > > > community where these children were raised? What about

> > > good old

> > > > > fashioned dharmic constraints on bad behavior and

> > > PERSONAL

> > > > > responsibility for OUR OWN actions?

> > > > >

> > > > > To suggest that the hurricane Katrina was a rascist event is

> > > > > emotionalism that panders to a strange type of political

> > > power

> > > > > seeking. It is this kind of emotionalism that fosters victim

> > > > > consciousness, finger poiting, blame mongering and other

> > > low level

> > > > > behaviors that are not part of the culture Amma encourages

> > > us to

> > > > > adopt. Mother encourages us to be self reliant and to give,

> > > not to

> > > > > cry all the time that we are not getting enough and need to be

> > > given

> > > > > more and more.

> > > > >

> > > > > This hurricane happened to hit an area where many poor

> > > black folks

> > > > > lived. Some leaders in the black muslim community

> > > suggested that a

> > > > > white man placed a bomb in the levies!!! is this fostering

> > > peace and

> > > > > brotherhood? Would Ghandi do this?. Many years ago a

> > > hurricane wiped

> > > > > out a part of Florida where poor white people lived, many of

> > > whom to

> > > > > this day have never received any benefits or aid from the

> > > > > government. Was that racism?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > â–ª Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web.

> > >

> > > â–ª

> > > Ammachi

> > >

> > > â–ª

> > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> >

> >

> > ------

> >

> >

> > * Visit your group "Ammachi

> > <Ammachi>" on the web.

> >

> > *

> > Ammachi

> > <Ammachi?subject=Un>

> >

> > * Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------

> >

>

 

_______________

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