Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Incomplete, in not having reached the final point of Realization, in which all the person's Karma's are burnt up in that "final" instant (tattva bodha script?), rather than someone who's had a taste of realization. The way I see it, there are 3 types of folks, you're likely to encounter in spiritual life. Upa guru: any teacher, not fully realized, who may benefit you. You have to be careful not to get caught up in the guru's karma. Can be general practitioner, or specialized. You might have many of these. Best to find one that really knows what they're doing, like Swami P did and stick with him/her. Satguru: Fully Realized Teacher, goal is to bring you to full Realization, or at least grant Liberation from Rebirth at the end of your life. Jivanmukta: Liberated Soul (literally). Like an artist or professional that may know their skill well, but their teaching ability (pedagogy) is limited, according to their samskara (experiences during lifetimes). I would place Gangaji in this category (or even lower), in that their teaching is flawed. It's why Amma and tradition has said to have "satguru", not necessarily just a Realized Being, or the words would have been "the importance of having a Jivanmukta for a teacher". Sai Baba has said that some people who've realized the self in previous lives, but still have strong desires are re-incarnated as Mini-incarnations. I'm guessing he's referring to the type of Jnaani that can feel pain (non-samadhi type). Certain great beings, while it may be a great blessing to have their darshan, don't give enough practical teachings or attention to make decent progress. This allows too much imagination or conjecture by the disciples. Two examples of this would be Anandamayi Ma and Neem Karoli Baba, 2 greats that I consider to be "more Avaduta than not". Avaduta's are realized souls that are immersed in God-consciousness more than in the world. Amma says that choosing an Avaduta as a guru is not a good idea (my paraphrasing). Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...> wrote: >> tom, > i'm curious about what you mean by 'incomplete gurus.' please elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Namah shivaya I dont know about all the rest of what you have written, but I dont agree with the statement on Anandamayi Ma. I think She was one of the greatest saints ever and has affected lives of millions. She was ( is) a beautiful incarnation of the Divine Mother.. well anyway, regardless of the Guru, the question we have to ask is "Are we disciples yet?" The greatest Guru is helpless till the disciple is ready.. and I think we should be busy making ourselves true disciples , rather than discuss who's complete and who is not. just my 2c. bala Tom <tomgull wrote: Incomplete, in not having reached the final point of Realization, in which all the person's Karma's are burnt up in that "final" instant (tattva bodha script?), rather than someone who's had a taste of realization. The way I see it, there are 3 types of folks, you're likely to encounter in spiritual life. Upa guru: any teacher, not fully realized, who may benefit you. You have to be careful not to get caught up in the guru's karma. Can be general practitioner, or specialized. You might have many of these. Best to find one that really knows what they're doing, like Swami P did and stick with him/her. Satguru: Fully Realized Teacher, goal is to bring you to full Realization, or at least grant Liberation from Rebirth at the end of your life. Jivanmukta: Liberated Soul (literally). Like an artist or professional that may know their skill well, but their teaching ability (pedagogy) is limited, according to their samskara (experiences during lifetimes). I would place Gangaji in this category (or even lower), in that their teaching is flawed. It's why Amma and tradition has said to have "satguru", not necessarily just a Realized Being, or the words would have been "the importance of having a Jivanmukta for a teacher". Sai Baba has said that some people who've realized the self in previous lives, but still have strong desires are re-incarnated as Mini-incarnations. I'm guessing he's referring to the type of Jnaani that can feel pain (non-samadhi type). Certain great beings, while it may be a great blessing to have their darshan, don't give enough practical teachings or attention to make decent progress. This allows too much imagination or conjecture by the disciples. Two examples of this would be Anandamayi Ma and Neem Karoli Baba, 2 greats that I consider to be "more Avaduta than not". Avaduta's are realized souls that are immersed in God-consciousness more than in the world. Amma says that choosing an Avaduta as a guru is not a good idea (my paraphrasing). Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...> wrote: >> tom, > i'm curious about what you mean by 'incomplete gurus.' please elaborate. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. Ammachi FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Om Namah Shivaya: I second Brother Bala's opinion on the great Saint Anandamayi Ma. Her greatness beyond my limited comprehension. GeorgeSon Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > Namah shivaya > > I dont know about all the rest of what you have written, but I dont agree with the statement on Anandamayi Ma. I think She was one of the greatest saints ever and has affected lives of millions. She was ( is) a beautiful incarnation of the Divine Mother.. > > well anyway, regardless of the Guru, the question we have to ask is "Are we disciples yet?" > > The greatest Guru is helpless till the disciple is ready.. and I think we should be busy making ourselves true disciples , rather than discuss who's complete and who is not. > > just my 2c. > > > > bala > > Tom <tomgull@h...> wrote: > Incomplete, in not having reached the final point of Realization, in > which all the person's Karma's are burnt up in that "final" instant > (tattva bodha script?), rather than someone who's had a taste of > realization. The way I see it, there are 3 types of folks, you're > likely to encounter in spiritual life. > > Upa guru: any teacher, not fully realized, who may benefit you. You > have to be careful not to get caught up in the guru's karma. Can be > general practitioner, or specialized. You might have many of these. > Best to find one that really knows what they're doing, like Swami P > did and stick with him/her. > > Satguru: Fully Realized Teacher, goal is to bring you to full > Realization, or at least grant Liberation from Rebirth at the end of > your life. > > Jivanmukta: Liberated Soul (literally). Like an artist or > professional that may know their skill well, but their teaching > ability (pedagogy) is limited, according to their samskara > (experiences during lifetimes). I would place Gangaji in this > category (or even lower), in that their teaching is flawed. It's why > Amma and tradition has said to have "satguru", not necessarily just a > Realized Being, or the words would have been "the importance of having > a Jivanmukta for a teacher". Sai Baba has said that some people > who've realized the self in previous lives, but still have strong > desires are re-incarnated as Mini-incarnations. I'm guessing he's > referring to the type of Jnaani that can feel pain (non-samadhi type). > > Certain great beings, while it may be a great blessing to have their > darshan, don't give enough practical teachings or attention to make > decent progress. This allows too much imagination or conjecture by > the disciples. Two examples of this would be Anandamayi Ma and Neem > Karoli Baba, 2 greats that I consider to be "more Avaduta than not". > Avaduta's are realized souls that are immersed in God-consciousness > more than in the world. Amma says that choosing an Avaduta as a guru > is not a good idea (my paraphrasing). > > > > Ammachi, Devi's Daughter <devi.daughter@g...> > wrote: > >> tom, > > i'm curious about what you mean by 'incomplete gurus.' please > elaborate. > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. > > > Ammachi > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > The greatest Guru is helpless till the disciple is ready.. and I think we should be busy making ourselves true disciples , rather than discuss who's complete and who is not. > > just my 2c. Aw, Bala, we were having such fun finding fault with Gurus, classifying beings into various levels of liberation, and also fighting each other a bit -- do you have to come by and spoil it all? Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 sorry Nandu to spoil your fun- you guys go right ahead with your fight..... maybe you could start classifying disciples instead..... it would be even more fun to fight among ourselves as to who is at what level- you and I of course are perfect already - :-) ....ha ha ha bala vallathnkumar <vallathn wrote: Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > The greatest Guru is helpless till the disciple is ready.. and I think we should be busy making ourselves true disciples , rather than discuss who's complete and who is not. > > just my 2c. Aw, Bala, we were having such fun finding fault with Gurus, classifying beings into various levels of liberation, and also fighting each other a bit -- do you have to come by and spoil it all? Nandu Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Mata amritanandamayi Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. Ammachi FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 All I know is that I am incomplete without our Amma. Erica. Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > sorry Nandu to spoil your fun- you guys go right ahead with your fight..... maybe you could start classifying disciples instead..... it would be even more fun to fight among ourselves as to who is at what level- you and I of course are perfect already - :-) ....ha ha ha > > bala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > maybe you could start classifying disciples instead..... it would be even more fun to fight among ourselves as to who is at what level- you and I of course are perfect already - :-) ....ha ha ha > > bala Here is a joke: A bishop and an archbishop were in church, praying on their knees. The archbishop called out, "Oh, my Lord, I am truly nobody!" The bishop too then called out, "Oh, my Lord, I am truly nobody!" The church janitor was moved by this scene, so he threw his broom aside, knelt down, and called out, "Oh, my Lord, I am nobody." Upon hearing this, the archbishop heard this and nudged the bishop, "Look who thinks he is a nobody!" Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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