Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 I'll end my Das-bashing with this post, as it was not my original intent. Under Catholicism, I learned you shouldn't gossip, as people are entitled to their good name except certain conditions (ie, to protect a third party). I'm sure Ram and Bhagavan are both good guys (ego, but not evil), but my main point was that it's necessary to discriminate who to follow, etc. because of the subtle effects (hard to unlearn later). For example, I follow the Devotional and Dharmic parts of Catholicism, and stay away from the mass or other studies, other than occasional dips to check things out. The part about "Jesus being the only path" is such a small part of the lives of truly devotional saints, that it doesn't affect me as much as being around Catholics who may believe that, but actually lead very unspiritual lives. Because of the nature of the subtle realm, you could believe Jesus was the only way and still reach great heights. As far as "who am I to judge?" attitude, you'd better start learning (discriminating), or you'll be years down the road and wondering why you haven't grown as much as you'd thought. I see this all the time: instead of maintaining the "attitude" of a beginner, people stay a beginner. Same as instead of becoming "like" a child, people act like a child, forcing people around them to act like a parent, and losing any spiritual benefit from being "like" a child". Wasn't impressed with what I've heard of Bh. Das's singing, but I did really like Krishna Das's singing on a short film that was on the DVD for American Desi (Govinda Hare song). Although heartfelt singing is one sign of a one-pointed mind, it can also just be a Siddhi (mastery, perfection), and this is the category I'd put both Krishna Das and Shree Maa in, having mastered the art of singing, not necessarily advanced folks. tom Ammachi, "Rufus Juskus" <rufmanj@v...> wrote: > > I've been watching this thread now for awhile and felt compelled to > throw my words here. > > I've seen Fierce Grace and was very much moved by it. > > Q. Do I think Ram Das is a great devotee? Has he showed "so > little growth and understanding?" > > A. Who knows and who am I to judge? I do know he's influenced many a > soul to seek out a spiritual path, and for that I honor him. > > As someone else said on this site, he is a good man. > > As for Bhagavan Das, a true wild man sage, I am floored by his loud > energy and his bombastic stories. Everyone knows his dirty laundry, > mostly because BD tells everyone. > > Bhagavan Das did turn me onto Amma, though, and for that, he always > has a special place in my heart. > > Many blessings to everyone! > > -Achyut > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Tom, Thanks for your thoughtful post. I think that Ram Das and Bh. Das do not put themselves up as someone to "follow." Neither of them claim to be gurus and both of them share the mistakes they have made. (I have heard it said one can have many teachers but only one Guru.) I put them both in the category of "teacher," and they both have wisdom to impart to those willing to listen. As with all teachers, I take what I like from each one, and use it for my own journey. Neither of them would be comfortable to be lumped in the same category as Amma - that's not what they are about. And IMHO,as far as "jugdment", there a difference between dicriminatiom and judgment. "That person is not for me" is discrimination. "That person is ego-based and a spritual dead end" is judgment. Anyway, I really like that you brought this up. It has very stimulating. Many blessings to you! Jai Ma! -Achyut Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > I'll end my Das-bashing with this post, as it was not my original > intent. Under Catholicism, I learned you shouldn't gossip, as > people are entitled to their good name except certain conditions (ie, > to protect a third party). > > I'm sure Ram and Bhagavan are both good guys (ego, but not evil), but > my main point was that it's necessary to discriminate who to follow, > etc. because of the subtle effects (hard to unlearn later). For > example, I follow the Devotional and Dharmic parts of Catholicism, > and stay away from the mass or other studies, other than occasional > dips to check things out. The part about "Jesus being the only > path" is such a small part of the lives of truly devotional saints, > that it doesn't affect me as much as being around Catholics who may > believe that, but actually lead very unspiritual lives. Because of > the nature of the subtle realm, you could believe Jesus was the only > way and still reach great heights. > > As far as "who am I to judge?" attitude, you'd better start learning > (discriminating), or you'll be years down the road and wondering why > you haven't grown as much as you'd thought. I see this all the > time: instead of maintaining the "attitude" of a beginner, people > stay a beginner. Same as instead of becoming "like" a child, people > act like a child, forcing people around them to act like a parent, > and losing any spiritual benefit from being "like" a child". > > Wasn't impressed with what I've heard of Bh. Das's singing, but I did > really like Krishna Das's singing on a short film that was on the DVD > for American Desi (Govinda Hare song). Although heartfelt singing > is one sign of a one-pointed mind, it can also just be a Siddhi > (mastery, perfection), and this is the category I'd put both Krishna > Das and Shree Maa in, having mastered the art of singing, not > necessarily advanced folks. > > tom > > > > Ammachi, "Rufus Juskus" <rufmanj@v...> wrote: > > > > I've been watching this thread now for awhile and felt compelled to > > throw my words here. > > > > I've seen Fierce Grace and was very much moved by it. > > > > Q. Do I think Ram Das is a great devotee? Has he showed "so > > little growth and understanding?" > > > > A. Who knows and who am I to judge? I do know he's influenced many a > > soul to seek out a spiritual path, and for that I honor him. > > > > As someone else said on this site, he is a good man. > > > > As for Bhagavan Das, a true wild man sage, I am floored by his loud > > energy and his bombastic stories. Everyone knows his dirty laundry, > > mostly because BD tells everyone. > > > > Bhagavan Das did turn me onto Amma, though, and for that, he always > > has a special place in my heart. > > > > Many blessings to everyone! > > > > -Achyut > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Tom <tomgull wrote: it's necessary to discriminate who to follow, etc. because of the subtle effects (hard to unlearn later). I follow the Devotional and Dharmic parts of Catholicism, .... you could believe Jesus was the only way and still reach great heights. As far as "who am I to judge?" attitude, you'd better start learning Namah Shivayah, I do think people often get confused about judging and discrimination. It is absolutely necessary for each soul to be discriminating about what path is the correct one for them, which is not the same as judging in the cosmic sense. Once one has discriminated that a certain person or path is not for oneself, it's easy to make statements that sound judgemental... I've done this myself with no real intent to judge in the cosmic sense. I sometimes think it's actually easier for people who see Jesus as the only way. This allows them to be one-pointed and avoid what I call the "spiritual dilettante syndrome" of people who proudly tell you they've done "a little Buddhism,some daoism", have been to see Mother Meera, seen the Dalai Lama, come to see Amma, done Native American spirituality and on and on it goes. Mother says dig one well and dig it deep. In Her, Jyotsna Ammachi, "Rufus Juskus" <rufmanj@v...> wrote: > > I've been watching this thread now for awhile and felt compelled to > throw my words here. > > I've seen Fierce Grace and was very much moved by it. > > Q. Do I think Ram Das is a great devotee? Has he showed "so > little growth and understanding?" > > A. Who knows and who am I to judge? I do know he's influenced many a > soul to seek out a spiritual path, and for that I honor him. > > As someone else said on this site, he is a good man. > > As for Bhagavan Das, a true wild man sage, I am floored by his loud > energy and his bombastic stories. Everyone knows his dirty laundry, > mostly because BD tells everyone. > > Bhagavan Das did turn me onto Amma, though, and for that, he always > has a special place in my heart. > > Many blessings to everyone! > > -Achyut > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Mata amritanandamayi Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Namah Shivaya, In 1978 someone told me about Ram Das' book "Be Here Now". I just HAD to have that book, and searched bookstore after bookstore for it. Once I found it I retired to my favorite bar (a dive) to sip a beer and read the book. I was totally sucked into it. My hair stood on end as I gobbled every page. I then read all of the books Ram Das had written at that time. I never regarded him as a guru or a teacher, but as a person who was stumbling along the way, entertaining and charming as he was. At that point I knew that I had found my path A few months later I met my first guru. Then several years later met Mother. It is only my opinion that Ram Das at least (not too familiar with Bh. Das or Krishna Das) is just plain folks, like the rest of us. I am not aware of him ever presenting himself in any other way. I'm very glad he wrote that book, and that the person who told me about the book did so, so I could find my way. I have not seen "Fierce Grace". A friend of mine saw it and hated it - thought he was a big phony, but she hates gurus and doesn't like Ram Das because he dropped acid. So I discount that opinion. It is available through the library system - I'll have to watch it one of these days. So I can't give a thumbs up or a thumbs down - but what I know of Ram Das, at least, is that he is an OK guy - not making any claims of spiritual prowess, or claiming to be a guru. Guess it's all a matter of perspective. So glad we have Mother. Jai Ma! Prasadini omgull wrote: > > it's necessary to discriminate who to follow, > etc. because of the subtle effects (hard to unlearn later). > > > > I follow the Devotional and Dharmic parts of Catholicism, .... you > could believe Jesus was the only > way and still reach great heights. > > As far as "who am I to judge?" attitude, you'd better start learning > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > I do think people often get confused about judging and > > discrimination. It is absolutely necessary for each soul > > to be discriminating about what path is the correct one > > for them, which is not the same as judging in the cosmic > > sense. Once one has discriminated that a certain person > > or path is not for oneself, it's easy to make statements > > that sound judgemental... I've done this myself with no > > real intent to judge in the cosmic sense. > > > > I sometimes think it's actually easier for people who > > see Jesus as the only way. This allows them to be > > one-pointed and avoid what I call the "spiritual > > dilettante syndrome" of people who proudly tell you > > they've done "a little Buddhism,some daoism", have > > been to see Mother Meera, seen the Dalai Lama, come to > > see Amma, done Native American spirituality and on and > > on it goes. Mother says dig one well and dig it deep. > > > > In Her, > > Jyotsna > > > > Ammachi, "Rufus Juskus" <rufmanj@v...> wrote: > > > > I've been watching this thread now for awhile and felt compelled to > > throw my words here. > > > > I've seen Fierce Grace and was very much moved by it. > > > > Q. Do I think Ram Das is a great devotee? Has he showed "so > > little growth and understanding?" > > > > A. Who knows and who am I to judge? I do know he's influenced many a > > soul to seek out a spiritual path, and for that I honor him. > > > > As someone else said on this site, he is a good man. > > > > As for Bhagavan Das, a true wild man sage, I am floored by his loud > > energy and his bombastic stories. Everyone knows his dirty laundry, > > mostly because BD tells everyone. > > > > Bhagavan Das did turn me onto Amma, though, and for that, he always > > has a special place in my heart. > > > > Many blessings to everyone! > > > > -Achyut > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > Mata amritanandamayi > > > > > > Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. > > > Ammachi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > Mata amritanandamayi > </gads?t=ms&k=Mata+amritanandamayi&w1=Mata+amritanandamay\ i&c=1&s=26&.sig=DYRmPW4tjbUZrNprNMY6xw> > > > > ------ > > > * Visit your group "Ammachi > <Ammachi>" on the web. > > * > Ammachi > <Ammachi?subject=Un> > > * Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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