Guest guest Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Again, are anti Goerge Bush rants appropriate here? Is this a political chat room? Do all the posters here really know all the facts, or are they passing on screeds from political chat rooms? So we are going to pass off political opinions as THE TRUTH? How about information about how to do good seva in this situation? I am not a defender of any particular political party, but the blame placing, highly judgemental screeds, do not belong in this forum. Is one party's "administration" really worse than anothers? Are we going to go into indictments of all the political parties of the world that are not up to Amma's level of compassion? thats going to be a very long list. As Amma has said, this is not her path. I think the moderator should be paying closer attention? Ammachi, joanna pollner <joannapollner> wrote: > Thank You Dave > that is very true being spiritual does not mean one > has to tolerate injustice , there are certain laws of > democracy that all people are entitled to Ammachi > represents that perfectly . Just because Keval > expressed his feelings on this forum certainly does > not denote his spirituality. Fact is a Fact ! Dear > Brothers and Sistters let all beings be in Loka > Samasta Sukinu Bhavantur . > > regards, Namaste Joanna Pollner > > --- Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Dave. I also would mention the > > all-consuming greed of this > > administration as a specific aspect of the lack of > > justice. Amma > > mentions poverty as the main problem of our world. > > Greed is the main > > cause for poverty. May we all pray for progress in > > the direction of > > justice and peace in our world. > > > > Pahari Maa > > > > > > On Sep 3, 2005, at 9:01 AM, David Cosentino wrote: > > > > > Condoning someone's behavior > > > when they have clearly done wrong time and time > > again > > > in the name of spiritual love is not Love. It > > simply > > > continues to engender the suffering of others. > > > i think there is danger in believing that Love > > means allowing > > > someone to perpetrate the most heinous breaches > > of > > > justice, civility, and universal responsibility > > over > > > and over again. Even Jesus angrily threw the > > > moneychangers from the temple when it offended > > his > > > sense of spiritual propriety. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > --- "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namah Shivayah, Keval, > > > > > > > > Do you feel better when people criticize you? > > Is > > > > that > > > > when you do your best work? To whom really do > > your > > > > harsh > > > > words come back? I thought on this board that > > > > people > > > > understand that all are but one. Did not > > Jesus say > > > > 2,000 > > > > years ago to love your "enemies"? Should we > > all not > > > > be > > > > praying for the president rather than > > lambasting > > > > him? > > > > What good does negativity do? > > > > > > > > I read this board for spiritual upliftment, not > > for > > > > political tirades. I realize you are the > > "not-very- > > > > moderate-moderator" (ha, ha), but I ask you to > > > > restrain > > > > yourself from this negativity on the list. > > > > > > > > As ever, > > > > Jyotsna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a dual national (I have both Canadian and > > U.S. > > > > passports), I am also ashamed of the one of my > > > > goverments and that bumbling clown who calls > > himself > > > > President. I've been disgusted with him since > > he > > > > allegedly "won" the 2000 election, but this > > past > > > > week > > > > was really over the top. Not only did the > > federal > > > > government drop the ball, they fumbled the snap > > from > > > > center. If the House and Senate had any guts > > they > > > > would vote to impeach Bush for malfeasance in > > > > office. > > > > We're not talking about blow jobs and cigar > > dildoes, > > > > folks. This is about human lives - thousands > > of > > > > them > > > > - being sacrificed at home while the soldiers, > > > > sailors, Marines and National Guardsmen (sorry, > > > > "national guardspeople" is too PC, and most of > > them > > > > are men anyway) who should be helping their > > fellow > > > > citizens are fighting a virtually unwinnable > > war in > > > > a > > > > country that has never harmed the U.S., never > > had > > > > WMD's, and had nothing whatsoever to do with > > 9/11. > > > > > > > > (OTOH, maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea to > > > > impeach Bush...who wants to see Mr. Halliburton > > > > become > > > > Preisdent Cheney.) > > > > > > > > I would bet my last loonie (Canadian $1 coin) > > that > > > > if > > > > Houston or some other city in Gee Dubya's home > > state > > > > had been hit as hard as New Orleans, you would > > have > > > > seen some serious relief efforts, perhaps > > thousands > > > > of > > > > the troops in Iraq flown home by now. But New > > > > Orleans > > > > can stew in its own sewage...after all they're > > > > mostly > > > > poor, Democrat-voting blacks down there. And > > the > > > > Bible-toting Christian conservatives hate that > > city > > > > anyway...such a den of iniquity, with its > > satanic > > > > jazz > > > > music and bars open 24-7, that deserves to burn > > in > > > > hell. > > > > > > > > getting off my soapbox.. > > > > > > > > Keval > > > > > > > > > > > >            > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Helps protect you from nasty > > viruses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs > > Mata > > > > amritanandamayi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. > > > >  > > > >    To from this group, send an > > email > > > > to: > > > > Ammachi > > > >  > > > >    Your use of is subject to > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > __ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Namah Shivaya, Who decides how much censure we want on the list and how is the decision made? How is it enforced? I saw another list fall apart because of persistent political arguing, yet is this not a safe place to vent our frustration in a time of crisis? Who decides where to draw the line, who decides what topics are offensive and which ones are not, what happens to a person who posts a forbidden topic? How do we know what we can and can't post about? Is the mere mention of a forbidden topic considered off limits, or is it limited to a full-on rant? Where is the line drawn? How do we define and enforce these things - should we decide to? Just asking. Pranams, Prasdini ckeniley2003 wrote: >Again, are anti Goerge Bush rants appropriate here? Is this a >political chat room? Do all the posters here really know all the >facts, or are they passing on screeds from political chat rooms? So >we are going to pass off political opinions as THE TRUTH? > >How about information about how to do good seva in this situation? > >I am not a defender of any particular political party, but the blame >placing, highly judgemental screeds, do not belong in this forum. > >Is one party's "administration" really worse than anothers? Are we >going to go into indictments of all the political parties of the >world that are not up to Amma's level of compassion? thats going to >be a very long list. > >As Amma has said, this is not her path. > >I think the moderator should be paying closer attention? > >Ammachi, joanna pollner <joannapollner> >wrote: > > >>Thank You Dave >>that is very true being spiritual does not mean one >>has to tolerate injustice , there are certain laws of >>democracy that all people are entitled to Ammachi >>represents that perfectly . Just because Keval >>expressed his feelings on this forum certainly does >>not denote his spirituality. Fact is a Fact ! Dear >>Brothers and Sistters let all beings be in Loka >>Samasta Sukinu Bhavantur . >> >>regards, Namaste Joanna Pollner >> >>--- Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Thank you, Dave. I also would mention the >>>all-consuming greed of this >>>administration as a specific aspect of the lack of >>>justice. Amma >>>mentions poverty as the main problem of our world. >>>Greed is the main >>>cause for poverty. May we all pray for progress in >>>the direction of >>>justice and peace in our world. >>> >>>Pahari Maa >>> >>> >>>On Sep 3, 2005, at 9:01 AM, David Cosentino wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Condoning someone's behavior >>>> when they have clearly done wrong time and time >>>> >>>> >>>again >>> >>> >>>> in the name of spiritual love is not Love. It >>>> >>>> >>>simply >>> >>> >>>> continues to engender the suffering of others. >>>> i think there is danger in believing that Love >>>> >>>> >>>means allowing >>> >>> >>>> someone to perpetrate the most heinous breaches >>>> >>>> >>>of >>> >>> >>>> justice, civility, and universal responsibility >>>> >>>> >>>over >>> >>> >>>> and over again. Even Jesus angrily threw the >>>> moneychangers from the temple when it offended >>>> >>>> >>>his >>> >>> >>>> sense of spiritual propriety. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> --- "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2> wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Namah Shivayah, Keval, >>>> > >>>> > Do you feel better when people criticize you? >>>> >>>> >>>Is >>> >>> >>>> > that >>>> > when you do your best work? To whom really do >>>> >>>> >>>your >>> >>> >>>> > harsh >>>> > words come back? I thought on this board that >>>> > people >>>> > understand that all are but one. Did not >>>> >>>> >>>Jesus say >>> >>> >>>> > 2,000 >>>> > years ago to love your "enemies"? Should we >>>> >>>> >>>all not >>> >>> >>>> > be >>>> > praying for the president rather than >>>> >>>> >>>lambasting >>> >>> >>>> > him? >>>> > What good does negativity do? >>>> > >>>> > I read this board for spiritual upliftment, not >>>> >>>> >>>for >>> >>> >>>> > political tirades. I realize you are the >>>> >>>> >>>"not-very- >>> >>> >>>> > moderate-moderator" (ha, ha), but I ask you to >>>> > restrain >>>> > yourself from this negativity on the list. >>>> > >>>> > As ever, >>>> > Jyotsna >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > As a dual national (I have both Canadian and >>>> >>>> >>>U.S. >>> >>> >>>> > passports), I am also ashamed of the one of my >>>> > goverments and that bumbling clown who calls >>>> >>>> >>>himself >>> >>> >>>> > President. I've been disgusted with him since >>>> >>>> >>>he >>> >>> >>>> > allegedly "won" the 2000 election, but this >>>> >>>> >>>past >>> >>> >>>> > week >>>> > was really over the top. Not only did the >>>> >>>> >>>federal >>> >>> >>>> > government drop the ball, they fumbled the snap >>>> >>>> >>>from >>> >>> >>>> > center. If the House and Senate had any guts >>>> >>>> >>>they >>> >>> >>>> > would vote to impeach Bush for malfeasance in >>>> > office. >>>> > We're not talking about blow jobs and cigar >>>> >>>> >>>dildoes, >>> >>> >>>> > folks. This is about human lives - thousands >>>> >>>> >>>of >>> >>> >>>> > them >>>> > - being sacrificed at home while the soldiers, >>>> > sailors, Marines and National Guardsmen (sorry, >>>> > "national guardspeople" is too PC, and most of >>>> >>>> >>>them >>> >>> >>>> > are men anyway) who should be helping their >>>> >>>> >>>fellow >>> >>> >>>> > citizens are fighting a virtually unwinnable >>>> >>>> >>>war in >>> >>> >>>> > a >>>> > country that has never harmed the U.S., never >>>> >>>> >>>had >>> >>> >>>> > WMD's, and had nothing whatsoever to do with >>>> >>>> >>>9/11. >>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > (OTOH, maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea to >>>> > impeach Bush...who wants to see Mr. Halliburton >>>> > become >>>> > Preisdent Cheney.) >>>> > >>>> > I would bet my last loonie (Canadian $1 coin) >>>> >>>> >>>that >>> >>> >>>> > if >>>> > Houston or some other city in Gee Dubya's home >>>> >>>> >>>state >>> >>> >>>> > had been hit as hard as New Orleans, you would >>>> >>>> >>>have >>> >>> >>>> > seen some serious relief efforts, perhaps >>>> >>>> >>>thousands >>> >>> >>>> > of >>>> > the troops in Iraq flown home by now. But New >>>> > Orleans >>>> > can stew in its own sewage...after all they're >>>> > mostly >>>> > poor, Democrat-voting blacks down there. And >>>> >>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>> > Bible-toting Christian conservatives hate that >>>> >>>> >>>city >>> >>> >>>> > anyway...such a den of iniquity, with its >>>> >>>> >>>satanic >>> >>> >>>> > jazz >>>> > music and bars open 24-7, that deserves to burn >>>> >>>> >>>in >>> >>> >>>> > hell. >>>> > >>>> > getting off my soapbox.. >>>> > >>>> > Keval >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >            >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Mail - Helps protect you from nasty >>>> >>>> >>>viruses. >>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Hinduism religion Different religions beliefs >>>> >>>> >>>Mata >>> >>> >>>> > amritanandamayi >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >    Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. >>>> >  >>>> >    To from this group, send an >>>> >>>> >>>email >>> >>> >>>> > to: >>>> > Ammachi >>>> >  >>>> >    Your use of is subject to >>>> >>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >>>> > removed] >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam >>>> >>>> >>>protection around >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>=== message truncated === >> >> >> >> >>__ >>Start your day with - make it your home page >>http://www./r/hs >> >> > > > > > >Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > Links > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Ammachi, Prasadini <ganesh1008@c...> wrote: > Namah Shivaya, > Who decides how much censure we want on the list and how is the decision > made? How is it enforced? > I saw another list fall apart because of persistent political arguing, > yet is this not > a safe place to vent our frustration in a time of crisis? > Who decides where to draw the line, who decides what topics are > offensive and > which ones are not, what happens to a person who posts a forbidden > topic? How > do we know what we can and can't post about? > Is the mere mention of a forbidden topic considered off limits, or is it > limited to a > full-on rant? > Where is the line drawn? How do we define and enforce these things - > should we decide to? > Just asking. > Pranams, > Prasdini > I think the answer to this question is obvious. Would Amma tolerate someone getting up to the microphone at her ashram and "venting" OPINIONS about politicians? We all know the ridiculous adharmic circus that would ensue. This is not Amma's way or the way of sanatana dharma. why not go to the hundreds of political rooms and commiserate or debate with like minded or argumentative people? And how do the back and forth "opinion" arguments help even one person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 > Namah Shivaya, > Who decides how much censure we want on the list and > how is the decision > made? How is it enforced? > I saw another list fall apart because of persistent > political arguing, > yet is this not > a safe place to vent our frustration in a time of > crisis? > Who decides where to draw the line, who decides what > topics are > offensive and > which ones are not, what happens to a person who > posts a forbidden > topic? How > do we know what we can and can't post about? > Is the mere mention of a forbidden topic considered > off limits, or is it > limited to a > full-on rant? > Where is the line drawn? How do we define and > enforce these things - > should we decide to? > To the extent that the messages do not degenerate into racial slurs, use of f-bombs, and outright flaming of other group members, I am willing to let a lot of things that are not 99 44/100% Amma be discussed on this group. I am not going to post a list of "forbidden" topics. When something of the magnitude of Katrina or 9/11 happens in our own backyard (for most of us; this group is overwhelmingly U.S. based), how can we just sit back at our keyboards and continue to debate arcane trivialities such as Amma's actual birth date, the color of her devi bhava sari, interpretations of dreams about Amma, and even the motives of Pavirthan the would-be assassin, as if nothing had happened to thousands of our fellow citizens, as if a major city in the world's richest country hadn't been turned into a virtually lawless third-world cesspool almost overnight? This is the real world, larke aur larkiyan. It affects us all, even if all you care about is the jacked-up price you will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks to Katrina. I think expressing anger at the apparent lack of response by the U.S. government in the immediate aftermath of Katrina was a kosher topic...and Dubyaman is fair game for serious criticism. But now that the feds seem to be getting off their butts and bringing in relief to Louisiana and Mississippi perhaps it's time to wait and see if the situation is improving down there before firing off any more rants. Keval __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 ckeniley2003 wrote: >> >> >> > > >I think the answer to this question is obvious. Would Amma tolerate >someone getting up to the microphone at her ashram and "venting" >OPINIONS about politicians? > >We all know the ridiculous adharmic circus that would ensue. > >This is not Amma's way or the way of sanatana dharma. > >why not go to the hundreds of political rooms and commiserate or >debate with like minded or argumentative people? > >And how do the back and forth "opinion" arguments help even one >person? > > > > Namah Shivaya With all due respect, no one wants this to become a political list. It is, however, a safe place for people to express their frustration, despair and sense of helplessness. Wouldn't Mother have compassion for Her children in this state? We have seen list members go from a state of frustration and helplessness to the seva of helping others affected by the disaster. This is total grace. I hope this peacefully ends this discussion. Jai MA! p > > >Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > Links > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Ammachi, Prasadini <ganesh1008@c...> wrote: > ckeniley2003 wrote: > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >I think the answer to this question is obvious. Would Amma tolerate > >someone getting up to the microphone at her ashram and "venting" > >OPINIONS about politicians? > > > >We all know the ridiculous adharmic circus that would ensue. > > > >This is not Amma's way or the way of sanatana dharma. > > > >why not go to the hundreds of political rooms and commiserate or > >debate with like minded or argumentative people? > > > >And how do the back and forth "opinion" arguments help even one > >person? > > > > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > With all due respect, no one wants this to become a political list. It > is, however, a safe > place for people to express their frustration, despair and sense of > helplessness. Wouldn't > Mother have compassion for Her children in this state? > We have seen list members go from a state of frustration and > helplessness to the seva > of helping others affected by the disaster. This is total grace. > I hope this peacefully ends this discussion. > Jai MA! > p Voicing dispair and frustration, we are all doing. Playing out the political blame game in our posts may be inaccurate and also spreading wrong views. false stereotypes like uncaring "rich" people, "evil" corporations, blaming the president for every problem imaginable and one race purposefully not helping another feed hatred and anger and are inapropriate here. However emotionally gratifying it may be to create scapegoats it is equally the equivalent of lying. Political opinions are not THE TRUTH. Equal vision, do we remember that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Can't help but love you, Keval. Your honesty and openness appeal to me. What really bothers me is the "hidden" anger and rage behind the posters who appear as total Amma devotees and want to restrict communication. They seem unable to look within and see their own motives. Pahari Maa On Sep 3, 2005, at 9:25 PM, Mike Brooker wrote: > > > > > Namah Shivaya, > > Who decides how much censure we want on the list and > > how is the decision > > made? How is it enforced? > > I saw another list fall apart because of persistent > > political arguing, > > yet is this not > > a safe place to vent our frustration in a time of > > crisis? > > Who decides where to draw the line, who decides what > > topics are > > offensive and > > which ones are not, what happens to a person who > > posts a forbidden > > topic? How > > do we know what we can and can't post about? > > Is the mere mention of a forbidden topic considered > > off limits, or is it > > limited to a > > full-on rant? > > Where is the line drawn? How do we define and > > enforce these things - > > should we decide to? > > > > To the extent that the messages do not degenerate into > racial slurs, use of f-bombs, and outright flaming of > other group members, I am willing to let a lot of > things that are not 99 44/100% Amma be discussed on > this group. I am not going to post a list of > "forbidden" topics. When something of the magnitude > of Katrina or 9/11 happens in our own backyard (for > most of us; this group is overwhelmingly U.S. based), > how can we just sit back at our keyboards and continue > to debate arcane trivialities such as Amma's actual > birth date, the color of her devi bhava sari, > interpretations of dreams about Amma, and even the > motives of Pavirthan the would-be assassin, as if > nothing had happened to thousands of our fellow > citizens, as if a major city in the world's richest > country hadn't been turned into a virtually lawless > third-world cesspool almost overnight? This is the > real world, larke aur larkiyan. It affects us all, > even if all you care about is the jacked-up price you > will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks > to Katrina. > > I think expressing anger at the apparent lack of > response by the U.S. government in the immediate > aftermath of Katrina was a kosher topic...and Dubyaman > is fair game for serious criticism. But now that the > feds seem to be getting off their butts and bringing > in relief to Louisiana and Mississippi perhaps it's > time to wait and see if the situation is improving > down there before firing off any more rants. > > Keval > > >           > __ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. >  > ▪  >  Ammachi >  > ▪  Terms of > Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I really wonder what planet you live on if you can refer to these as false stereotypes. This is reality in 2005 America. We are not creating scapegoats. We are observing and reporting on the actual world. Go outside, look around, talk to some people and "wake up". Pahari Maa > Playing out the political blame game in our posts may be inaccurate > and also spreading wrong views. false stereotypes like > uncaring "rich" people, "evil" corporations, blaming the president > for every problem imaginable and one race purposefully not helping > another feed hatred and anger and are inapropriate here. > > However emotionally gratifying it may be to create scapegoats it is > equally the equivalent of lying. Political opinions are not THE > TRUTH. > > Equal vision, do we remember that? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Maybe you need to wake up to the habit of expressing your OPINIONS about things as REALITY. White people are racist. Rich people are uncaring. Corporations are evil. The administration is evil. These are well thought out analysis? Or HYSTERICAL political dreck, racial and class warfare hate mongering whipped up by other competing politicians. Self righteous blame mongering is not the path of the mother. Do you honestly think that this below par emotional thinking is supported by Amma? Ammachi, Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: > I really wonder what planet you live on if you can refer to these as > false stereotypes. This is reality in 2005 America. > > We are not creating scapegoats. We are observing and reporting on the > actual world. > > Go outside, look around, talk to some people and "wake up". > > Pahari Maa > > > Playing out the political blame game in our posts may be inaccurate > > and also spreading wrong views. false stereotypes like > > uncaring "rich" people, "evil" corporations, blaming the president > > for every problem imaginable and one race purposefully not helping > > another feed hatred and anger and are inapropriate here. > > > > However emotionally gratifying it may be to create scapegoats it is > > equally the equivalent of lying. Political opinions are not THE > > TRUTH. > > > > Equal vision, do we remember that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Do you think that you are not "blaming". Look within. Amma has stated that greed and selfishness are the cause of Poverty and terrorism. Listen to Her. On Sep 4, 2005, at 8:25 AM, ckeniley2003 wrote: > Maybe you need to wake up to the habit of expressing your OPINIONS > about things as REALITY. White people are racist. Rich people are > uncaring. Corporations are evil. The administration is evil. > > These are well thought out analysis? Or HYSTERICAL political dreck, > racial and class warfare hate mongering whipped up by other > competing politicians. > > Self righteous blame mongering is not the path of the mother. Do you > honestly think that this below par emotional thinking is supported > by Amma? > > Ammachi, Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: > > I really wonder what planet you live on if you can refer to these > as > > false stereotypes. This is reality in 2005 America. > > > > We are not creating scapegoats. We are observing and reporting on > the > > actual world. > > > > Go outside, look around, talk to some people and "wake up". > > > > Pahari Maa > > > > > Playing out the political blame game in our posts may be > inaccurate > > > and also spreading wrong views. false stereotypes like > > > uncaring "rich" people, "evil" corporations, blaming the > president > > > for every problem imaginable and one race purposefully not > helping > > > another feed hatred and anger and are inapropriate here. > > > > > > However emotionally gratifying it may be to create scapegoats > it is > > > equally the equivalent of lying. Political opinions are not THE > > > TRUTH. > > > > > > Equal vision, do we remember that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > Hinduism religion > Different religions beliefs > Mata amritanandamayi > > > > > > ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. >  > ▪  >  Ammachi >  > ▪  Terms of > Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > To the extent that the messages do not degenerate into > racial slurs, use of f-bombs, and outright flaming of > other group members, I am willing to let a lot of > things that are not 99 44/100% Amma be discussed on > this group. I am not going to post a list of > "forbidden" topics. When something of the magnitude > of Katrina or 9/11 happens in our own backyard (for > most of us; this group is overwhelmingly U.S. based), > how can we just sit back at our keyboards and continue > to debate arcane trivialities such as Amma's actual > birth date, the color of her devi bhava sari, > interpretations of dreams about Amma, and even the > motives of Pavirthan the would-be assassin, as if > nothing had happened to thousands of our fellow > citizens, as if a major city in the world's richest > country hadn't been turned into a virtually lawless > third-world cesspool almost overnight? This is the > real world, larke aur larkiyan. It affects us all, > even if all you care about is the jacked-up price you > will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks > to Katrina. > > I think expressing anger at the apparent lack of > response by the U.S. government in the immediate > aftermath of Katrina was a kosher topic...and Dubyaman > is fair game for serious criticism. But now that the > feds seem to be getting off their butts and bringing > in relief to Louisiana and Mississippi perhaps it's > time to wait and see if the situation is improving > down there before firing off any more rants. > > Keval Keval, I have no problems with your role as moderator, and I am with you on this. Also, I don't think the discussion and activities on Katrina is politicking. Amma has herself sent Br. Dayamrita to oversee the relief efforts that MA Center can do for this tragedy, so our disucssing help efforts, and also our frustrations at institutions which can potentially offer greater relief but are stumbling is normal, not un-spiritual. At the same time, I will add that we must take care to note that our frustrations don't sap our energy and desire to help effectively. But this below is something that was an indirect reference to my 2 posts on gas spikes, and I must speak up for myself. Regardless of whether you (or anybody else) meant that I perceive the tragedy as just a personal selfish concern or not, I must say what I have to, and here is what I have to say. > It affects us all, even if all you care about is the jacked-up price > you will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks > to Katrina. First of all, that is NOT the only thing I care about. I do care deeply about the tragedy of it all, and the pain of the victims. I have put them in my prayer list and hope to donate to a good charity regularly (like x$/month for the next 3 months atleast and review the need to put more). I just did not see the need to tell about that in this list, nor will I need to tell about anything else I will ever do. Secondly, if you care to see the chronology of the posts, the first post was in response to Avram's post of "bad things happening every year, so what's the big deal about Katrina vis-a-vis Amma's prediction?" post. The response was to tell him that this was much much bigger than what he thought as it seems to impact more folks than just the GulfCoast people and in ways we could not have imagined upfront, and Amma could be right about this qualified as one of the bad times of 2005. Perhaps I was not very verbose and articulate; I concede to problems of ENOUGH communication, not of intent. Thirdly, the second post on gas spikes was to share my own personal journey into more incremental understanding of the unity of things. If people see it (or want to see it or "pre-screened their minds" to see it) cynically as a "all you care about is gas price hike", then that is painful news to me. I guess I must stop posting or sharing anything personal. I do enjoy the posts on this group, and I am not unsubscribing or anything like that. I guess I just need to be more careful about what I post; I am not necessarily seen as motiveless. I don't blame anyone for that perception because I too judge most people like that (how many will admit this: any brownie points for honesty?). Thanks for more insights, you all who are really a reflection of what the Divine Mother wants me to see to grow up soon! Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just wanted to send you love. (and Keval too) Pahari Maa On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:23 AM, manoj_menon wrote: > Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > > To the extent that the messages do not degenerate into > > racial slurs, use of f-bombs, and outright flaming of > > other group members, I am willing to let a lot of > > things that are not 99 44/100% Amma be discussed on > > this group. I am not going to post a list of > > "forbidden" topics. When something of the magnitude > > of Katrina or 9/11 happens in our own backyard (for > > most of us; this group is overwhelmingly U.S. based), > > how can we just sit back at our keyboards and continue > > to debate arcane trivialities such as Amma's actual > > birth date, the color of her devi bhava sari, > > interpretations of dreams about Amma, and even the > > motives of Pavirthan the would-be assassin, as if > > nothing had happened to thousands of our fellow > > citizens, as if a major city in the world's richest > > country hadn't been turned into a virtually lawless > > third-world cesspool almost overnight? This is the > > real world, larke aur larkiyan. It affects us all, > > even if all you care about is the jacked-up price you > > will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks > > to Katrina. > > > > I think expressing anger at the apparent lack of > > response by the U.S. government in the immediate > > aftermath of Katrina was a kosher topic...and Dubyaman > > is fair game for serious criticism. But now that the > > feds seem to be getting off their butts and bringing > > in relief to Louisiana and Mississippi perhaps it's > > time to wait and see if the situation is improving > > down there before firing off any more rants. > > > > Keval > > > > Keval, > > I have no problems with your role as moderator, and I am with you on > this. > > Also, I don't think the discussion and activities on Katrina is > politicking. Amma has herself sent Br. Dayamrita to oversee the relief > efforts that MA Center can do for this tragedy, so our disucssing help > efforts, and also our frustrations at institutions which can > potentially offer greater relief but are stumbling is normal, not > un-spiritual. At the same time, I will add that we must take care to > note that our frustrations don't sap our energy and desire to help > effectively. > > > But this below is something that was an indirect reference to my 2 > posts on gas spikes, and I must speak up for myself. Regardless of > whether you (or anybody else) meant that I perceive the tragedy as > just a personal selfish concern or not, I must say what I have to, and > here is what I have to say. > > > It affects us all, even if all you care about is the jacked-up price > > you will have to pay for a gallon or litre of gas thanks > > to Katrina. > > First of all, that is NOT the only thing I care about. I do care > deeply about the tragedy of it all, and the pain of the victims. I > have put them in my prayer list and hope to donate to a good charity > regularly (like x$/month for the next 3 months atleast and review the > need to put more). I just did not see the need to tell about that in > this list, nor will I need to tell about anything else I will ever do. > > Secondly, if you care to see the chronology of the posts, the first > post was in response to Avram's post of "bad things happening every > year, so what's the big deal about Katrina vis-a-vis Amma's > prediction?" post. The response was to tell him that this was much > much bigger than what he thought as it seems to impact more folks than > just the GulfCoast people and in ways we could not have imagined > upfront, and Amma could be right about this qualified as one of the > bad times of 2005. Perhaps I was not very verbose and articulate; I > concede to problems of ENOUGH communication, not of intent. > > Thirdly, the second post on gas spikes was to share my own personal > journey into more incremental understanding of the unity of things. If > people see it (or want to see it or "pre-screened their minds" to see > it) cynically as a "all you care about is gas price hike", then that > is painful news to me. I guess I must stop posting or sharing anything > personal. > > > I do enjoy the posts on this group, and I am not unsubscribing or > anything like that. I guess I just need to be more careful about what > I post; I am not necessarily seen as motiveless. I don't blame anyone > for that perception because I too judge most people like that (how > many will admit this: any brownie points for honesty?). > > Thanks for more insights, you all who are really a reflection of what > the Divine Mother wants me to see to grow up soon! > > Jai Ma! > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > > ▪  Visit your group "Ammachi" on the web. >  > ▪  >  Ammachi >  > ▪  Terms of > Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Ammachi, Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: Can't help but love you, Keval. Your honesty and openness appeal to me. What really bothers me is the "hidden" anger and rage behind the posters who appear as total Amma devotees and want to restrict communication. They seem unable to look within and see their own motives. Pahari Maa ~~~~ my reply : GOOD POINT! and they don't even sign their posts ~ amarnath PS ~ "To share your ideas about the satsang is all right. But to enter into a dispute about it, and adamantly say that what you felt is the only correct interpretation is wrong, totally wrong. By doing this you are narrowing your mind." - Ammachi, Awaken Children, Vol.4, p42 (0052) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 > > But this below is something that was an indirect > reference to my 2 > posts on gas spikes, and I must speak up for myself. > Regardless of > whether you (or anybody else) meant that I perceive > the tragedy as > just a personal selfish concern or not, I must say > what I have to, and > here is what I have to say. Actually I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote that for some, the only effect of Katrina will be getting P.O.ed at the price they pay at the pump. I don't even remember who posted the messages about gas spikes. Gas prices were going through the roof last month anyway; Katrina just gave Big Oil an excuse for some real pump-side gouging. The ridiculous price of gas (though the $1.25 a litre we're forking over in Canada is still a bargain compared to Europe) means that a lot of people with limited disposable income must make some tough choices, particularly if leaving the car at home and walking or taking public transit is not always an option. Money that could have been donated to Katrina relief is now going to fill up the tank. New shoes for the kids or gas? a DVD player or gas? Yoga classes or gas? Bhajan CDs or gas? (that last one is a no-brainer, but I don't even own a car!!) > > Secondly, if you care to see the chronology of the > posts, the first > post was in response to Avram's post of "bad things > happening every > year, so what's the big deal about Katrina vis-a-vis > Amma's > prediction?" post. I have no idea what Avram is thinking, trotting out those hoary old rationalist screeds, and trying to discredit Amma's dark-cloud 2005 predictions as mere coincidences. He seems to have some kind of axe to grind with gurus in general, if not Amma in particular. I won't boot him from this group (I have received offline messages telling me that I should do that) just because he won't tow the Official Party Line or express undying fealty to Amma. I believe in free speech and open debate...apparently that wasn't always the case in this group, which lead to the establishment of the Amma Free Speech Zone . Keval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 To Keval and Manoj: I don't think that this group's moderator ever forbade criticism of Ammachi -- it is just that such criticism or even questioning was regarded by a vocal few as an attack on Ammachi, and calls for the critics' dismissal from the group were heard, even when the questions were fair and the questioners sincere. Idol-smashing is a part of spiritual growth, but apparently some here did not want to be witness to the scene of idol-smashing. Fair enough, I suppose, especially when there is the free speech zone for uncomfortable topics. Regarding the business of Avram's "bad things happen all the time, what is special about 2005", I asked Amma on this tour (quotes are not exact, forgive any errors please): Me: What are these disasters in 2005 you talked about? Amma: Disasters are happening continually, right? Me: My point exactly. So why specify 2005? Amma: One should be ready for death at any time, and not be surprised by it. Me: Well, death is not the problem, is it? Living is the problem. Amma: Exactly. Nandu Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > > > > Manoj wrote: > > Secondly, if you care to see the chronology of the > > posts, the first > > post was in response to Avram's post of "bad things > > happening every > > year, so what's the big deal about Katrina vis-a-vis > > Amma's > > prediction?" post. > > I have no idea what Avram is thinking, trotting out > those hoary old rationalist screeds, and trying to > discredit Amma's dark-cloud 2005 predictions as mere > coincidences. He seems to have some kind of axe to > grind with gurus in general, if not Amma in > particular. I won't boot him from this group (I have > received offline messages telling me that I should do > that) just because he won't tow the Official Party > Line or express undying fealty to Amma. I believe in > free speech and open debate...apparently that wasn't > always the case in this group, which lead to the > establishment of the Amma Free Speech Zone . > > Keval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote: > To Keval and Manoj: > > I don't think that this group's moderator ever forbade criticism of > Ammachi -- it is just that such criticism or even questioning was > regarded by a vocal few as an attack on Ammachi, and calls for the > critics' dismissal from the group were heard, even when the > questions were fair and the questioners sincere. Idol-smashing is a > part of spiritual growth, but apparently some here did not want to > be witness to the scene of idol-smashing. Fair enough, I suppose, > especially when there is the free speech zone for uncomfortable > topics. > > Regarding the business of Avram's "bad things happen all the time, > what is special about 2005", I asked Amma on this tour (quotes are > not exact, forgive any errors please): > Me: What are these disasters in 2005 you talked about? > Amma: Disasters are happening continually, right? > Me: My point exactly. So why specify 2005? > Amma: One should be ready for death at any time, and not be > surprised by it. > Me: Well, death is not the problem, is it? Living is the problem. > Amma: Exactly. > > Nandu > > Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > > > > > > > Manoj wrote: > > > Secondly, if you care to see the chronology of the > > > posts, the first > > > post was in response to Avram's post of "bad things > > > happening every > > > year, so what's the big deal about Katrina vis-a-vis > > > Amma's > > > prediction?" post. > > > > I have no idea what Avram is thinking, trotting out > > those hoary old rationalist screeds, and trying to > > discredit Amma's dark-cloud 2005 predictions as mere > > coincidences. He seems to have some kind of axe to > > grind with gurus in general, if not Amma in > > particular. I won't boot him from this group (I have > > received offline messages telling me that I should do > > that) just because he won't tow the Official Party > > Line or express undying fealty to Amma. I believe in > > free speech and open debate...apparently that wasn't > > always the case in this group, which lead to the > > establishment of the Amma Free Speech Zone . > > > > Keval Idol smashing? This is supposedly and online satsang, not a religious debate group. At least that was my impression. If you want to criticize Amma go to the free speech zone. Why do some embrace this "truth" as idol smashing, criticizing, debating, intellect loving stuff? What's the point? Amma does Seva 24-7. How about criticizing our own feeble efforts at Seva and dharma. ONS Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Where the hell do you get the idea that (1) this is a satsang, not a debate group and (2) what constitutes a satsang? Just because you have been used to the milk-and-water "Ammachi is so wonderful" stuff doesn't make you decide what should be posted. Heck, start your own stupid Ammachi group if you want, moderate it any way you want, and exclude whomever. This is not just your group. So get over it. Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003> wrote: > > Idol smashing? This is supposedly and online satsang, not a > religious debate group. At least that was my impression. > > If you want to criticize Amma go to the free speech zone. > > Why do some embrace this "truth" as idol smashing, criticizing, > debating, intellect loving stuff? What's the point? > > Amma does Seva 24-7. How about criticizing our own feeble efforts at > Seva and dharma. > > ONS > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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