Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Dearest Bro & Sisters of Amma, Our Mothers birth time seems to have become a topic of discussion, which is so much more appropriate than her status as a master teacher, avatar, etc. For myself, who finds peace in my hearts as a result of following her teachings and who have witnessed years of transformations of myself and my brothers and sisters of Amma, I am grateful for the more open, loving and tolerant we all have become. My personal miracles of her healing my body are remarkable as are many others. It seems to me that Amma eases the pain of this life, reduces the quantity of the karma, yet still letting us discover as curious and disobedient children. Jyotsna wrote: > Actually, the "new" thing is that Amma was not born in 1953 or on Sept. 27. They were saying in India when i was there that Amma was actually born sometime in 1952, but her parents never kept track of when. The result is much speculation and discussion. My thoughts about Amma's birth time and date, does it matter ? As has been my impression that Amma has the power to alter any karma and astrological baggage we come to this life with. If she is able to alter our karma, could she not alter her own. She has her birthday published the same over and over. What Jyotsna mentioned was only a result of many weeks of interacting with the ashramites, and the many stories that internalize in India. Our minds naturally want the "inside scoop", so easing up on Jyotsna for merely relaying some stories, might be appropriate. My request is that Bala ask her directly while she is touring the East Coast, as his love for Amma and his nnocence will make it easy for him to bring up the subject for her children's curious minds. >From a sheer physical birth standpoint, the birth of a child, takes many minutes and the time of birth (crowning, head birth, then shoulder and arm freedom and then eventually whole body may take 1-5 minutes). Having worked labor and delivery for several years, the time of birth selected by the medical staff varies. Some physicians take pride in announcing the time, many primary OB nurses have the responsibility of looking at the clock when the child is progressing, and whether the full body or the head, is born, is always a topic of discussion among medical staff. BTW, those television births are much too simple ...and do not display the reality of birth complications, breeches, etc. Personally, my birth time also varied by 3 minutes when an astrologer lined up my life experiences, and this gave a whole new perspective to my astrology. Western Astrology had not been as accurate as Jyotish in the last 17 years. This eased my mind considerably, as what I was experiencing did not coincide with predictions. Blessings and greatest apologies for lengthy message. Brevity is not my one of my strengths. Om Namah Shivaya, amritavarshini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 I have mentioned this before. If you add Amma's birth date, year and even time of birth, it all adds up to 9. And 9 is a divine number. Amma is purely Divine. Donn Ammachi [Ammachi] On Behalf Of kasi_visvanath Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:52 AM Ammachi Re: when is Amma's birthday this year? Ammachi, "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2> wrote: > Actually, the "new" thing is that Amma was not born in 1953 or on Sept. 27. > They were saying in India when i was there that Amma was actually born > sometime in 1952, but her parents never kept track of when. Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! We trust and pray that Amma is blessing and protecting all of you always! in reference to Jyotsna's comments, i am struck by the thought that this idea of not knowing when one is born is NOT a Hindu practice. Hindus as far as i know, generally think that the date and time of birth is EXTREMELY important...and almost always people will have that kind of information...When Hindu parents want to marry off their daughters and sons, they almost ALWAYS will go to an astrologer to arrange WHAT the birth chart says...such as which Nakshatra the moon is in...and what tithi (part of the nakshatra)...and they will want to know whether moon was waxing or waning, and what the phase actually was...such as "panchami" or "shashti" or so...Also, most Hindu parents tend to be concerned extremely with whether their child is suffering from a "Kuja Dosha" (or Mars affliction)....because a Kuja Dosha can result in very bad marriages...unless proper mitigation of the curse is done...or the person waits until at least the age of 28 years. In fact one reads in the Amma biography that her parents DID consult an astrologer, who firmly told them that Amma is a Mahatma and that they should forget about marrying HER off...and that if She was ALREADY married, that they should get the marriage annulled....cause it would be dangerous to the husband. (She had already threatened one prospective groom with his life...waving a big chilly chopping knife and yelling She would kill him if they married Her to him...) Now HOW could the astrologer tell them all these things if they did NOT know When Amma was born???? did they just make up some arbitrary date and time for the astrologer?? or did the astrologer figure it out FOR them? (from details in Amma's life).... i would be extremely surprised if Amma's parents did not know what year or date that Amma was born....it is SO important to know one's Nakshatra if one is a traditional Hindu... They might not remember the exact TIME that Amma was born...but an astrologer could figure THAT out to the minute, given again, some important events in Amma's life...and the status of Her family...(not social status...but how they were doing at certain times)... So i would tend to suggest that indeed the year and date of Amma's Birth would have been remembered quite well by Her Parents...Which parent among us would not remember WHEN his or Her child was born??? we might forget the actual TIME of birth, but we would NOT forget the day, month and YEAR of birth unless we were seriously ill with no memory left...or suffering from one of the forms of dementia...then we might not remember such things, but otherwise... Keval has stated that Her birthday is on Sept 27 this year as it is always...but he forgets that Hindus tell their birthdays by the NAKSHATRA in which the Moon was found at the time of Birth...the so called Lunar Calendar. so we must look for the days when Moon is passing through Krittika (a nakshatra in Taurus, and Amma's "birthstar", also known as the Pleiades) in the month of September/October....this year of 2005 This year according to my Jyotish program (in which i use Lahiri Ayanamsha)...Jagannatha Hora, Moon is in the Nakshatra Krittika (or Karthika, if you're more used to that), on Sept 22, so i would venture to say that Amma's "Hindu" birthday, or Her Birthstar birthday is on Sept 22 this year...they may celebrate it on another day but as far as i can tell, that is the right day. i just looked at my Amma calendar, and indeed they show Sept 22 as the day that Moon passes through Krittika...(Her Birthstar)...which makes Sept 22 the lunar birthday. the thing is that even IF Amma's parents don't really remember those details, it may be possible for some extremely skilled astrologer to reconstruct the time and date of birth from Amma's character, from Her actions in this world, and from events which have occurred TO her...such as the death of Her brother...the time when She got thrown out of the house...time of Her Krsna and Devi sadhanas...those kinds of things. Prasannan for example appears to be very skilled (and with the help of his Jyotish program) in discovering the precise times of birth of his clients....in fact i believe he USUALLY checks the client information against his program and will alter the given time of birth by whatever it takes to make the charts work...usually only a few minutes on one side or the other of the given time... in my case he told me after asking a few questions that he believed that the time of my birth was actually three minutes LATER than i had given him...because that timing made the Mahadasha/bhuktis/antaradashas (life periods) line up more precisely with the known transits of planets at that time...and his timing WAS right...it WORKS exactly right on as i have tested over and over by comparing life events to the vimshottari dashas given for those periods...often an event will happen on the DAY that the life period would change from one planetary ruler to the next..usually in the smaller divisions of the periods of course...but it is amazing to see how one's life is so neatly ordered according to the stars... One hears a LOT of rumours in spirtual groups, and it is probably best to take most of them with a very big grain of salt... Why would the swamis have given Amma's birthday and time and year, if they did not KNOW it?? that would have been contrary to their vows of truthfulness. i cannot believe that Swami Nealu (Paramatmanandaji) and Swami Balu.. (Amritaswarupanandaji) would knowingly perpertrate such a falsehood.. i think that if they had stated that Amma was born on September 27 1953, that indeed She was born then....on the astrology lists, they even discuss the TIME of Amma's birth...which was given as 9:09 AM, and which appears to show the strange event of Her birth being recorded in what adds up to the number NINE... (time) (date) (year) 9:09 Septmber 27, 1953 adds up to (9+9+9)+(2+7)+(1+9+5+3)=45=4+5=9 (when added up in the numerological sense). in an astrological chart, the Ninth house is the House of Guru, (as well as Father, distant travel, and a few other things...) i personally have been given that birthtime, 9:09 AM by Dayalu, who is a Jyotishi, and has been with Amma for a long time...he wrote (in the year 2000): "Amma is a Libra ascendant 23 degrees 18. She was born Sept. 27th 1953 at 9:09A.M. Kayankulam, India. She's getting more popular now during Jupiter Venus and in 2006 when She goes into Saturn Saturn she'll probably be World famous." according to my Jyotish program, Amma would have been born on a Sunday, known as "Krishna Panchami", or the Fifth day of the Waning moon, in the month of "Bhadrapada", Year, "Vijaya" with the Sun/Moon yoga called Vajra, ruled by Moon. Her ascendant of 23 Libra 18 would place the Lagna (ascendant) in the Nakshatra (mansion of the Moon) known as Vishakham, a nakshatra in which if there are planets to be found, may indicate a devout follower of Lord Krsna, (or Jesus Christ...as i have discovered in analysing western charts...it appears to work very well for either "Deity"...so isn't that strange that Paramahansa Yogananda used to say that Krsna and Christ were basically the same? you can even see it from the charts of the devotees!!!)...and as we know, Amma was a Great Krsna devotee in Her youth... anyways...just a few little tidbits to pique the mind... In Amma's Divine Love, and in Her Service, as ever, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! _____ * Visit your group "Ammachi <Ammachi> " on the web. * Ammachi <Ammachi?subject=Un> * <> Terms of Service. _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Dear Visvanathan, My mother-in-law was born in south India around the same time as Amma, and my MIL doesn't know what year/day/date she was born in either. This is not to compare the two (of course!) but just showing that if, indeed, Amma's birth parents do not know her exact time/day of birth, this child would not be surprised. With love, At Her feet, Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Namaste, My parents are from South Central India and both of them have no clue when they were born. Both my paternal and maternal grandparents were illetrate and incredibly poor. It is not uncommon to find people of my parents age (who are approx as old as Ammachi) not knowing their bithdates. It is my understanding that only Brahmins and educated people kept track of birth dates during pre-independence India and earlier stages of freed India. Since Ammachi is from fishermen and poor community may be keeping track of her birthday was least priority for her parents. Aum Avinash --- Erica <sugarandbrine wrote: > Dear Visvanathan, > > My mother-in-law was born in south India around the > same time as Amma, > and my MIL doesn't know what year/day/date she was > born in either. > This is not to compare the two (of course!) but just > showing that if, > indeed, Amma's birth parents do not know her exact > time/day of birth, > this child would not be surprised. > > With love, > At Her feet, > Erica > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Ammachi, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99> wrote: > Namaste, > > My parents are from South Central India and both of > them have no clue when they were born. Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! thanks for the information...i guess i was forgetting about the poor and illiterate folks....all of my information has come from the literate folks, both books and people...so unfortunately i wasn't thinking about the rest...my apologies if anyone was offended by my ignorance....as far as i understood, though, Sree Ma came from a wealthy, and therefore literate family....whether Amma's family was literate or not i have no idea.... In Her Love, and in Her Service, as ever, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Viswanathanji, I highly doubt if Amma's parents remembered her birth date-astrology was mostly used by well off people in the old days. This is not to gainsay the predictions of the local astrologer, most kerala astrologers use prasna all the time(some techniques are local to Kerala only) and they are very good at it. I think jyothishi's at the ashram probably looked at the most auspicious time, which is the Sep 27 birthday since it fulfills an much rumoured criteria for saints - three planets exalted or in their own house. I personally think that Amma is beyond astrology, and predictions based on her chart may not have much relevance. Your statement that your birth time was corrected by Prasannan to 3 minutes earlier is very interesting. 3 minute translates to just under 1 degree in the Ascendent and in my opinion makes a neglible difference as far as Vimshottari dasha(shift of few weeks/months) is concerned (unless your asc is at the cusp of a nakshatra), or transets over natal planets/asc. I think he uses Krishnamurty system or Kalachakra dasha where the time can be accurately pinpointed. Thanks for telling this - I will try to see Prasannan the next time. -yogaman Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath> wrote: > Ammachi, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99> wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > My parents are from South Central India and both of > > them have no clue when they were born. > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! > > thanks for the information...i guess i was forgetting about the poor > and illiterate folks....all of my information has come from the > literate folks, both books and people...so unfortunately i wasn't > thinking about the rest...my apologies if anyone was offended by my > ignorance....as far as i understood, though, Sree Ma came from a > wealthy, and therefore literate family....whether Amma's family was > literate or not i have no idea.... > > In Her Love, > and in Her Service, > as ever, > > visvanathan > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Ammachi, "childofdevi" <childofdevi> wrote: > Viswanathanji, > >> > Your statement that your birth time was corrected by Prasannan to 3 > minutes earlier is very interesting. 3 minute translates to just > under 1 degree in the Ascendent and in my opinion makes a neglible > difference as far as Vimshottari dasha(shift of few weeks/months)...> Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Namaskarams to all my brothers and sisters on the list (and everywhere else too!) we trust and pray that Amma is blessing you and protecting you always!! in reference to the statement that Amma's parents would not remember when She was born....i find that really hard to believe...i understand that they may not remember the exact HOUR, but i find it hard to believe that they would not remember the DAY and MONTH and Year... Anyone who has children i think would remember when they were born, especially if there had been some strange omens before, during and after Her birth...such as the visions of Devi, and Krsna, and the way that Amma was born in Padma asana, with Her hands held in Chinmudra...and that She was so darkly coloured that they feared for some illness....i firmly believe that a parent would have a very hard time FORGETTING such a birth, especially as it was so easy, almost without warning (Her Mother stated in the autobiography i believe). i have no trouble whatever remembering the date of my children's birth...and at the time i was NOT interested in astrology, and didn't really have any particular reason to try to remember the occasion. it's hard for me to think that one's parents will not even remember what day or month or year that one is born in... it doesn't make sense to me that monks who are sworn to upholding the truth will be making up Amma's birthdate just to get a cool chart...i imagine that if they wanted to get the right birthdate and time, all they had to do was ask AMMA Herself, because She has stated that She was consciously aware of what was happening around Her when She was born...perhaps they got the data from Amma Herself...after all if She is indeed an Avatar of Divine Mother, it should be child's play for Her to remember just when She was born.... if they make up the birthchart, that makes any and every bit of information which one might derive from such a chart to be nothing but nonsense...it would be the chart of a theoretical person, not a real one..it would make even Her Birthstar to be suspect...and as Amma is associated with (or an incarnation of) Mother Kali, i find this impossible to believe...because Mother Kali as far as i know, despises those who do not tell the truth. She has no patience for pretenders...so i cannot imagine the swamis, or the jyotishis, or even Mother Herself, countenancing such a lie...It would put the lie to Mother's ENTIRE operation...which is based on transparency and truthfulness...Even one little lie will bring the entire edifice that Amma has been so painstakingly constructed, down about Her and our ears... Thus i find it incomprehensible that Amma would allow Her children to publish a birthdate of Hers, which is entirely made up to create a nice chart...that just doesn't ring TRUE with what i've known of Amma over the last 10 years (in this life!!)...Someone Who bases Her Life on Truth and Compassion is NOT going to shoot Herself in the foot with such foolishness as a made up birthchart!! At least that's how i, one of Her little children, see Her. Mother is an upholder of Dharma. An upholder of Dharma cannot be caught out on such an obvious lie as the wrong birth date unless they have some political or spiritual reason for it, and even then it would be hard to justify. Why even bother to publish a birth date at all if they don't know it? She could just as easily have done the same as Sri Maa, and said that no one knows when She was born... Besides, when one looks at Her chart, and compares it with what has happened in Her life, it appears to be extraordinarily accurate...For example, When Mother was going through Her Sade Sati, (seven and a half years while Saturn transits through the Birth Moon's house, and the houses both before and after it) it was a truly rough time for Her and Her children too...that was when She was wearing all the neck braces, and wrist bandages, and that was the time when Swamiji (Balu) wound up in bed for a long time with a serious back injury...that was the time that both Amma and Swamiji started using backrests on their meditation cushions for the bhajan programs...that was the time that Amma lost several of Her close devotees for various reasons (eg Gayatri, and the Swami in France at the time, as well as Nirmalamrita Chaitanya who used to do the preparations in America for Amma's tour, who died of cancer, just before Amma came that year...Also at the height of the Sade sati, when Saturn was passing through Krittika, (Mother's Birthstar), that was the time that the fire broke out at the San Ramon Ashram and wounder several people seriously.... so to say that they just made up Her birthchart sounds like rubbish...why would the events in Her life correspond so well with the Transits and Vimshottari dashas if it was all made up to look good? Sorry....but whether your parents remember when they were born or not, does not speak for whether Amma's parents do not remember, nor does it allow for the possibility that the swamis may have just asked Amma Herself...Who would certainly know such a thing easily, if She is indeed omniscient, and omnipresent...as an Avatar such as She is supposed to be would be able to access any such information as needed. Even it doesn't speak for whether your GRANDPARENTS remembered the birthdates of their children, your parents,or not...it only says that your parents themselves did not know, perhaps because they weren't interested in such data...it being no use to them.. my wife comes from a poor Tamil Hindu family in Malaysia, but the people that SHE knows all would have consulted the Jyotishis for marriage arrangements...Her parents did so several times... Of course the CHILDREN may not be interested in such information, but the Parents usually are, such that they can arrange a good match between not only the newlyweds, but also between the families...so a good study of the charts would be undertaken to discover if the match would be a good one for the whole group.... it would be most important in my eyes to at least know one's birthstar (the Nakshatra that Moon was in), because even with just that, the jyotishis can tell a LOT about the person and their prospects for marriage...as well as it being a very convenient way to test whether potential groom and bride would get along well and support the family to grow in wealth and influence...such things are really oriented towards the family, and i believe that the family members would be quite interested in trying to secure a good well matched mate for their child... In India it may well be true that this approach is mainly used by the Brahmins, and the educated, wealthy type classes...but as i say, my wife came from a poor family and Her parents were very interested in such information (although the children couldn't have cared less...and thus paid for their ignorance with difficult marriages)...so even if the parents did not remember the exact time, they would at least, i believe, remember the birthstar and Month, as well as year. in regard to the 3 minute regression for my birth ascendant...i believe it can make enough of a difference in the vimshottari dashas, such that events will not coincide with their proper bhuktis or antaradashas, or sukshmadashas...if the birthtime is NOT accurate..then all those minor periods will be off...and it will be much harder to see the wonderful orderliness and beauty to be found in charts as they conform with reality experienced by the querant. it will also affect the Navamsha chart, which is relevant for spousal matters, as well as spiritual ones...and that is not to mention the other divisional charts, which rely upon a precise time of birth to be accurate... in short...the more accurate one's birth information is, the better it is... In Divine Mother's Love and in Her Service, as ever, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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