Amma's Omniscience and the Tsunami

[Guest guest]

Some day perhaps someone will gather stories from those devotees,

especially those with any skills to help after the tsunami, to find

out what Amma told them in the days before it happened. Dr. Asha

Pillai has told us about her interactions with Amma in the days

immediately prior to the tsunami, on the day itself and following

and it seems that Amma must have known that it was coming and when.

 

What could she do? What do we expect that she could have done other

than guide people to be ready to help others.

 

Amma is not always able to change what is in front of us. Every

time she comes to California, Jason, a man left quadriplegic by ALS,

comes to see her and she blesses every limb and kissses him but she

is not able to cure him. Does this mean she is not an avatar?

Since she did nto stop the tsunami, does that mean she is not an

avatar? I don't think so. We don't know the whole story behind

anything. We have a tiny pinhole view and then come to big

conclusions.

 

More details about the event itself will come forth over the years

and we will understand better.

 

Aikya

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, nierika@a... wrote:

>

> sprose wrote:

>

> Rick, the ole omniscience question. How many times have I raised

it!!! I

> once was satisfied with the idea that omniscience is not knowing

every

> aspect of

> everything at all times all at once.

>

>

> Ah, sprose, Rick, everyone ~ maybe we can just agree to disagree

and know

> that some of us believe in Amma's omniscience and others don't.

Amma doesn't

> require that you believe in anything. If you are a devotee, She

asks for a life

> of Love and Selfless Service. As for the tsunami, how do we know

She didn't

> know? Do you? I don't. I do know that 10,000 of Kerala's residents

were in the

> ashram at the time, on a floor that would not normally be used

for Darshan;

> it was higher up, and all these people were saved. Amma threw her

saree off

> the window and told the waters to receed and they did. She wade

out in her

> bathing suit and enlisted all her devotees in making an "human

line" to save

> people who were trapped in the waters. She is teaching children

how to swim. She

> is feeding 10,000 people a day. I guess in the end, each of us

can only be

> responsible for what we believe about Amma. Jai Ma ~ Linda

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "Aikya Param" <aikya> wrote:

> Some day perhaps someone will gather stories from those devotees,

> especially those with any skills to help after the tsunami, to find

> out what Amma told them in the days before it happened. Dr. Asha

> Pillai has told us about her interactions with Amma in the days

> immediately prior to the tsunami, on the day itself and following

> and it seems that Amma must have known that it was coming and when.

>

> What could she do? What do we expect that she could have done

other

> than guide people to be ready to help others.

 

If Amma prevented all the problems before they happened, where would

the opportunity come for others to do selfless service, show

compassion, learn from Amma's example, etc? Amma said that a Mahatma

will allow certain things to happen to teach people lessons.

 

>

> Amma is not always able to change what is in front of us. Every

> time she comes to California, Jason, a man left quadriplegic by

ALS,

> comes to see her and she blesses every limb and kissses him but she

> is not able to cure him. Does this mean she is not an avatar?

 

Amma healed a leper by licking his wounds with Her tongue, etc. But

She left one spot unhealed. When Swamajii asked about this, She said

that will remind him to keep calling out to God, which will be his

path to God.

 

When Swami Paramatmananda came to Amma, he was near death. Amma

healed him well enough, spiritually strenghtened him, and asked him

to be in charge at San Ramon for years even though he was in pain

much of the time. Amma said if She heals him completely this

lifetime, he will need to come again and experience even more pain,

etc. But if he can bear some pain, under Amma's guidance, there is

chance of spiritual growth and enlightenement(?).

 

In my own case, Amma has worked miracles in transforming my partner's

life. Yet, there are still some painfull challenges for both of us.

Sometimes, I get angry at Amma for an incomplete job. Sometimes, I

get angry at myself for not enough faith, etc. And yet, somehow it

seems clear that all this is for our spiritual growth and strenght.

So, there is little to do except to believe what Dayamritaji told

us "Amma is Blessing and Guiding You!" ~ and so it is for all of us.

Just hang on tight and don't forget to say your mantra.

 

> Since she did nto stop the tsunami, does that mean she is not an

> avatar? I don't think so. We don't know the whole story behind

> anything. We have a tiny pinhole view and then come to big

> conclusions.

 

WELL SAID ! because we have a mind and "mind is a big lie"

 

>

> More details about the event itself will come forth over the years

> and we will understand better.

>

> Aikya

>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "Amarnath" <anatol_zinc> wrote:

>Amma healed a leper by licking his wounds with Her tongue, etc. But

> She left one spot unhealed. When Swamajii asked about this, She

> said that will remind him to keep calling out to God, which will

> be his path to God.

 

> When Swami Paramatmananda came to Amma, he was near death. Amma

>healed him well enough, spiritually strenghtened him, and asked him

>to be in charge at San Ramon for years even though he was in pain

>much of the time.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if a medical doctor did this for 'compassionate' reasons

(i.e. to keep his patients) would be lose his license or would his

other 'patients' jump to his defence.

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "anamikafisher" <anamikafisher>

wrote:

> Ammachi, "Amarnath" <anatol_zinc> wrote:

> >Amma healed a leper by licking his wounds with Her tongue, etc. But

> > She left one spot unhealed. When Swamajii asked about this, She

> > said that will remind him to keep calling out to God, which will

> > be his path to God.

>

> > When Swami Paramatmananda came to Amma, he was near death. Amma

> >healed him well enough, spiritually strenghtened him, and asked him

> >to be in charge at San Ramon for years even though he was in pain

> >much of the time.

>

>

>

>

> I wonder if a medical doctor did this for 'compassionate' reasons

> (i.e. to keep his patients) would be lose his license or would his

> other 'patients' jump to his defence.

 

 

Three points:

1. Amma does not volunteer medical services; people come to Her (and

stay with Her)) because of their faith in Her ability to heal.

2. Amma is NOT OBLIGED to heal anyone of his karma; her compassion

makes her give the best beneficial (to the afflicted) help.

3. Amma did not receive any monetary payment for the treatment of

Dattan (the leper) or for the respectable Swami. If a payment was

there, the expectation from that transaction would have been different

as you are highlighting, else it's a "moot" point.

 

Please don't compare Amma's transactions (a term in psychological

studies to define "interactions") with her disciples/believers with

that of a materialistically-living doctor and his patients. It is

unfair.

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "anamikafisher"

<anamikafisher>

> wrote:

> > Ammachi, "Amarnath" <anatol_zinc>

wrote:

> > >Amma healed a leper by licking his wounds with Her tongue, etc.

But

> > > She left one spot unhealed. When Swamajii asked about this,

She

> > > said that will remind him to keep calling out to God, which

will

> > > be his path to God.

> >

> > > When Swami Paramatmananda came to Amma, he was near death.

Amma

> > >healed him well enough, spiritually strenghtened him, and asked

him

> > >to be in charge at San Ramon for years even though he was in

pain

> > >much of the time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I wonder if a medical doctor did this for 'compassionate'

reasons

> > (i.e. to keep his patients) would be lose his license or would

his

> > other 'patients' jump to his defence.

>

>

> Three points:

> 1. Amma does not volunteer medical services; people come to Her

(and

> stay with Her)) because of their faith in Her ability to heal.

> 2. Amma is NOT OBLIGED to heal anyone of his karma; her compassion

> makes her give the best beneficial (to the afflicted) help.

> 3. Amma did not receive any monetary payment for the treatment of

> Dattan (the leper) or for the respectable Swami. If a payment was

> there, the expectation from that transaction would have been

different

> as you are highlighting, else it's a "moot" point.

>

> Please don't compare Amma's transactions (a term in psychological

> studies to define "interactions") with her disciples/believers

with

> that of a materialistically-living doctor and his patients. It is

> unfair.

 

The Divine Mother is certainly obligated to cure her children's

illnesses. You cannot say that she is the Divine Mother, and then

let her off the hook. No-one says of an earthly mother, "Look, she

is cooking/feeding/bathing her children -- how compassionate she is!"

 

Nandu

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

> > 2. Amma is NOT OBLIGED to heal anyone of his karma; her compassion

> > makes her give the best beneficial (to the afflicted) help.

>

> The Divine Mother is certainly obligated to cure her children's

> illnesses. You cannot say that she is the Divine Mother, and then

> let her off the hook. No-one says of an earthly mother, "Look, she

> is cooking/feeding/bathing her children -- how compassionate she is!"

>

> Nandu

 

The Divine Mother is in an Impersonal State of Ecstacy (for lack of a

better term) and does not understand that humans have "problems".

 

How do I explain this? Let me try .... If we assume that everything is

consciousness, then even the speck of dust on my laptop is alive,

which means even that speck of dust probably has problems and trials

and tribulations in "it's" life. But my state of being is such that I

do not (NORMALLY) even differentiate between one speck of dust and the

other as a separate existential entity, let alone know what it's

problems are, and try to solve it. However if I somehow came to know

it had problems and that I would be able to help it, I would probably

do so out of compassion.

 

Likewise with the Divine Mother ..... Her state of being is such that

She does not differentiate between one human and the other in her

Tranquil Oneness state. However if this tranquility were "disturbed"

by sufficient inputs (read "whining, crying, screaming, pleading,

praying, and kicking around" by a human), then She percieves a

difficulty and can do something about it.

 

The analogy is not perfect, but I hope you get to appreciate that the

Divine Mystics like Amma are human in appearance only; they do not

(NORMALLY) think and feel like humans, yet at other times (when their

compassion is aroused), they think and feel with the capacity of

superhumans! That's the beauty of this apparent contradiction.

 

Seeing instances like the latter (superhuman compassion), we start

giving her names like the Divine Mother, but it is my contention that

by limiting Her to that name, we have begun to understand ONLY A VERY

SMALL ASPECT OF THE MYSTIC WE CALL AMMA!

 

Nandu, coming back to your remark:

Armed with this bakground, the Divine Mother is obligated only if:

1. The recipient accepts and believes She is the Divine Mother, and

2. The recipient requests Her (strongly enough) for intervention, and

3. The recipient has the Grace to receive a healing (this parameter, I

admit, is a huge unknown for me in terms of understanding, but I

accept it as essential hoping to understand this better when Amma will

bless me with more maturity and insight).

 

Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...>

wrote:

> > Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...>

wrote:

> > > 2. Amma is NOT OBLIGED to heal anyone of his karma; her

compassion

> > > makes her give the best beneficial (to the afflicted) help.

> >

> > The Divine Mother is certainly obligated to cure her children's

> > illnesses. You cannot say that she is the Divine Mother, and

then

> > let her off the hook. No-one says of an earthly mother, "Look,

she

> > is cooking/feeding/bathing her children -- how compassionate she

is!"

> >

> > Nandu

>

> The Divine Mother is in an Impersonal State of Ecstacy (for lack

of a

> better term) and does not understand that humans have "problems".

>

> How do I explain this? Let me try .... If we assume that

everything is

> consciousness, then even the speck of dust on my laptop is alive,

> which means even that speck of dust probably has problems and

trials

> and tribulations in "it's" life. But my state of being is such

that I

> do not (NORMALLY) even differentiate between one speck of dust and

the

> other as a separate existential entity, let alone know what it's

> problems are, and try to solve it. However if I somehow came to

know

> it had problems and that I would be able to help it, I would

probably

> do so out of compassion.

>

> Likewise with the Divine Mother ..... Her state of being is such

that

> She does not differentiate between one human and the other in her

> Tranquil Oneness state. However if this tranquility

were "disturbed"

> by sufficient inputs (read "whining, crying, screaming, pleading,

> praying, and kicking around" by a human), then She percieves a

> difficulty and can do something about it.

>

> The analogy is not perfect, but I hope you get to appreciate that

the

> Divine Mystics like Amma are human in appearance only; they do not

> (NORMALLY) think and feel like humans, yet at other times (when

their

> compassion is aroused), they think and feel with the capacity of

> superhumans! That's the beauty of this apparent contradiction.

>

> Seeing instances like the latter (superhuman compassion), we start

> giving her names like the Divine Mother, but it is my contention

that

> by limiting Her to that name, we have begun to understand ONLY A

VERY

> SMALL ASPECT OF THE MYSTIC WE CALL AMMA!

>

> Nandu, coming back to your remark:

> Armed with this bakground, the Divine Mother is obligated only if:

> 1. The recipient accepts and believes She is the Divine Mother, and

> 2. The recipient requests Her (strongly enough) for intervention,

and

> 3. The recipient has the Grace to receive a healing (this

parameter, I

> admit, is a huge unknown for me in terms of understanding, but I

> accept it as essential hoping to understand this better when Amma

will

> bless me with more maturity and insight).

>

> Jai Ma!

 

Manoj, You are conveniently calling the Divine Mother compassionate

when something good happens, and conveniently saying that she is

beyond all this when something bad happens (instead of simply

lacking in compassion, or negligent). Sorry, doesn't work.

 

Nandu

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya.

 

Let¹s not forget about our responsibility in these matters.

Thanks to ego‹ the one thing Amma says humans, not God, creates‹

my problems represent consequences from past lives.

She says that with enough effort God¹s grace can

take away some, reduce effects of some and help me bear the worst.

Jai Kali Ma.

premarupa

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Amma has said in one Awaken Children that God created the very first

vasana (tendency, ego, whatever).

 

Nandu

 

Ammachi, Kenna <itskenna@c...> wrote:

> Namah Shivaya.

>

> Let¹s not forget about our responsibility in these matters.

> Thanks to ego‹ the one thing Amma says humans, not God, creates‹

> my problems represent consequences from past lives.

> She says that with enough effort God¹s grace can

> take away some, reduce effects of some and help me bear the worst.

> Jai Kali Ma.

> premarupa

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote:

>

> Manoj, You are conveniently calling the Divine Mother compassionate

> when something good happens, and conveniently saying that she is

> beyond all this when something bad happens (instead of simply

> lacking in compassion, or negligent). Sorry, doesn't work.

>

> Nandu

 

Nandu,

Please don't put words into my mouth..... I am not conveniencing Amma

with anything.

 

But I feel that too much is being expected of Her by the entire world

just because some disciples and devotees, in their frenzied devotion,

have called Her Omniscient and Divine Mother.

 

Several things are wrong with the way these discussions are going.

1. No one has a precise, agreed-upon definition of what omniscient is,

and how, if at all, it really applies to mystics.

2. No one knows, WITH ANY REAL AUTHORITY, what a "Divine Mother" is or

is supposed to do, although almost everyone is quick to blame Amma of

inaction!

3. These remarks are written as if Amma has declared herself to be the

Divine Mother of the world (which she never has publicly), and that

writing these remarks here is supposed to make the (supposedly dumb)

devotees cringe in despair and then leave her. It almost looks like a

"brownie-point" scoring game for some intellectuals.

4. What is laughable here is that She is the single most hard-working

person around, and the least judgemental of any person in the world,

and almost all of us are quick to judge what SHE DID NOT DO!

 

I am convinced that Amma sees a picture of the world very very unlike,

and much more profound than, what we see. And that we have no CAPACITY

to evaluate what she sees, or judge what she does with her vision.

 

For example:

What did She see in the tsunami that she is helping out so much?

Why is she (SO OBVIOUSLY) helping the tsunami victims and not people

in the ongoing african famine?

Even in the tsunami, Why only India and Sri Lanka? Why not the worst

hit - Indonesia? or the other countries?

What about the daily rape victims of the world?

What about the people dying in accidents throughout the world?

Why should she not help any of these and others if She is the Divine

Mother?

 

We don't have answers; we can't have answers that easily, that seems

to be our lot. On the other hand, it is also easy to criticize her

because she does not do so many things (as exampled above)!

 

But saying that because She does not save all the people in the world

or comparing Amma's healing services and techniques with a regular

money-earning doctor and saying that she is not the Divine Mother and

thereby implying she may not be deserving of the respect she has been

given by people is insulting to her legacy (legacy being represented

by 33 years of hugs, established schools and colleges, orphanages,

hospitals, old age homes, AIDS hospices etc, and the numerous people

whose lives she has transformed by gradually inculcating some level of

bhakti, spirituality and humility (the last in that list would be this

totally undeserving guy who has dared to call himself "ammasson")).

 

Criticism is one thing; insult is totally another.

 

I am convinced that Amma will have somebody or the other criticizing

her for the rest of her life (whether they are capable of assesing her

or not), no matter how much good she does in this life. I guess

nothing can be done about that. Hence, my attitude towards that is: if

you can't see Amma's genuineness, better cricize her and know about

her than not to know about her at all. atleast that is a source for

some good karma to you - God bless!

 

But insults (even if unintended), I will fight all insults to her that

I come across, and I exhort everybody in the list (including you,

Nandu and anamikafisher - I know you did not mean to insult her at

all) to do the same.

 

Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

I talked about the deficiencies of the Divine Mother. You, in the

same message, say that Amma is not necessarily the DM, but then go

on as if in criticising the DM, I am criticising Amma.

 

So which is it? (If I say that all monkeys are stupid, there is no

need for anyone to think I am insulting their father's intelligence,

unless their father is a monkey.)

 

OK, so maybe this is a brownie-point scoring for some intellectuals

like myself; no worse than BS that is swallowed from scriptures and

spat back out. And like you pointed out, at least each time I type

a message, I type Amma ... Amma ... several times. Surely that is

good karma :-)

 

Nandu

 

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...>

wrote:

> >

> > Manoj, You are conveniently calling the Divine Mother

compassionate

> > when something good happens, and conveniently saying that she is

> > beyond all this when something bad happens (instead of simply

> > lacking in compassion, or negligent). Sorry, doesn't work.

> >

> > Nandu

>

> Nandu,

> Please don't put words into my mouth..... I am not conveniencing

Amma

> with anything.

>

> But I feel that too much is being expected of Her by the entire

world

> just because some disciples and devotees, in their frenzied

devotion,

> have called Her Omniscient and Divine Mother.

>

> Several things are wrong with the way these discussions are going.

> 1. No one has a precise, agreed-upon definition of what omniscient

is,

> and how, if at all, it really applies to mystics.

> 2. No one knows, WITH ANY REAL AUTHORITY, what a "Divine Mother"

is or

> is supposed to do, although almost everyone is quick to blame Amma

of

> inaction!

> 3. These remarks are written as if Amma has declared herself to be

the

> Divine Mother of the world (which she never has publicly), and that

> writing these remarks here is supposed to make the (supposedly

dumb)

> devotees cringe in despair and then leave her. It almost looks

like a

> "brownie-point" scoring game for some intellectuals.

> 4. What is laughable here is that She is the single most hard-

working

> person around, and the least judgemental of any person in the

world,

> and almost all of us are quick to judge what SHE DID NOT DO!

>

> I am convinced that Amma sees a picture of the world very very

unlike,

> and much more profound than, what we see. And that we have no

CAPACITY

> to evaluate what she sees, or judge what she does with her vision.

>

> For example:

> What did She see in the tsunami that she is helping out so much?

> Why is she (SO OBVIOUSLY) helping the tsunami victims and not

people

> in the ongoing african famine?

> Even in the tsunami, Why only India and Sri Lanka? Why not the

worst

> hit - Indonesia? or the other countries?

> What about the daily rape victims of the world?

> What about the people dying in accidents throughout the world?

> Why should she not help any of these and others if She is the

Divine

> Mother?

>

> We don't have answers; we can't have answers that easily, that

seems

> to be our lot. On the other hand, it is also easy to criticize her

> because she does not do so many things (as exampled above)!

>

> But saying that because She does not save all the people in the

world

> or comparing Amma's healing services and techniques with a regular

> money-earning doctor and saying that she is not the Divine Mother

and

> thereby implying she may not be deserving of the respect she has

been

> given by people is insulting to her legacy (legacy being

represented

> by 33 years of hugs, established schools and colleges, orphanages,

> hospitals, old age homes, AIDS hospices etc, and the numerous

people

> whose lives she has transformed by gradually inculcating some

level of

> bhakti, spirituality and humility (the last in that list would be

this

> totally undeserving guy who has dared to call

himself "ammasson")).

>

> Criticism is one thing; insult is totally another.

>

> I am convinced that Amma will have somebody or the other

criticizing

> her for the rest of her life (whether they are capable of assesing

her

> or not), no matter how much good she does in this life. I guess

> nothing can be done about that. Hence, my attitude towards that

is: if

> you can't see Amma's genuineness, better cricize her and know about

> her than not to know about her at all. atleast that is a source for

> some good karma to you - God bless!

>

> But insults (even if unintended), I will fight all insults to her

that

> I come across, and I exhort everybody in the list (including you,

> Nandu and anamikafisher - I know you did not mean to insult her at

> all) to do the same.

>

> Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote:

> I talked about the deficiencies of the Divine Mother. You, in the

> same message, say that Amma is not necessarily the DM, but then go

> on as if in criticising the DM, I am criticising Amma.

>

> So which is it? (If I say that all monkeys are stupid, there is no

> need for anyone to think I am insulting their father's intelligence,

> unless their father is a monkey.)

>

> Nandu

 

I can see that my penchant for verbal gymnastics and precise

communication probably made me write more than I should have to

explain myself.

 

If you read carefully, I only said some devotees in their frenzied

devotion claim her to be DM. That does not mean that she be treated as

the DM by all (it's each person's wish if they wish to), and can most

definitely not be criticized, as if she were a DM, by anyone.

 

As far as I am concerned, she is a mystic of an extremely high order,

whom I have accepted as my Guru (BTW, did you see the ego speak in

"whom I have accepted ...") to help me progress spiritually.

 

Amma is Nirupadih - without any conditioning or limitations. If

someone says she is DM, to me it is describing only one of her

attributes. The very term is limiting who she is, and most importantly

our understanding of who she is and what she is supposed to do. Hence

I don't like to call her DM, although my respect for her is as if she

were DM and more (if you see what I am trying to say .... my verbal

gymnastics just started and I am not going to complete it)

[Guest guest]

I pay a doctor to treat my problem and

I think that he is obliged to help me.

I donot think Amma is under any obligation

to solve all my problems. And neither does

She claim that if we do a certain amount

of seva or

give a certain donation, all our material

problems will cease.

 

Namah Shivaya.

 

Love,

Nirmala

 

 

Ammachi, "anamikafisher" <anamikafisher>

wrote:

> Ammachi, "Amarnath" <anatol_zinc> wrote:

> >Amma healed a leper by licking his wounds with Her tongue, etc.

But

> > She left one spot unhealed. When Swamajii asked about this, She

> > said that will remind him to keep calling out to God, which will

> > be his path to God.

>

> > When Swami Paramatmananda came to Amma, he was near death. Amma

> >healed him well enough, spiritually strenghtened him, and asked

him

> >to be in charge at San Ramon for years even though he was in pain

> >much of the time.

>

>

>

>

> I wonder if a medical doctor did this for 'compassionate' reasons

> (i.e. to keep his patients) would be lose his license or would his

> other 'patients' jump to his defence.

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya Nandu

 

I thought I 'll write a philosophic reply -then decided against it as I didnt

want to write what I dont practice

 

but this much i'll tell you- Amma, the Divine Mother, loves you more than

anyone else on earth.

 

And we both know of the number of times people have walked up to Amma and said

all sorts of things and the number of times She has patiently listened and

replied with love.

 

Through all your exasperation and frustration , you are only showing that you

Love Her so much.

 

Because each child has a right to rant and rave against its mother, if it feels

that its mother isnt taking care of it properly.

 

But i am glad that you rant and rave against Amma, the Divine MOther.

 

Because you do it only because you have high expectations of Her.

 

And you have high expectations of Her because deep down you have accepted Her

and love Her.

 

This is called "nindastuti" - praise through criticism.

 

There's a bhajan in this style- Ambike Jagadiswari. Do you know it?

 

( I do use the words Amma and Divine Mother interchangably beacuse , to me, Amma

IS the Divine Mother. And yes, to me Amma IS omniscient, though not in the

conventional sense.

 

And regardless of whatever anyone says, Amma IS one of the most hardworking

selfless beings ever to walk upon the earth, and our lives are infinitely

blessed in having been able to come in contact with Her. )

 

bala

 

 

vallathnkumar <vallathn wrote:

I talked about the deficiencies of the Divine Mother. You, in the

same message, say that Amma is not necessarily the DM, but then go

on as if in criticising the DM, I am criticising Amma.

 

So which is it? (If I say that all monkeys are stupid, there is no

need for anyone to think I am insulting their father's intelligence,

unless their father is a monkey.)

 

OK, so maybe this is a brownie-point scoring for some intellectuals

like myself; no worse than BS that is swallowed from scriptures and

spat back out. And like you pointed out, at least each time I type

a message, I type Amma ... Amma ... several times. Surely that is

good karma :-)

 

Nandu

 

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...>

wrote:

> >

> > Manoj, You are conveniently calling the Divine Mother

compassionate

> > when something good happens, and conveniently saying that she is

> > beyond all this when something bad happens (instead of simply

> > lacking in compassion, or negligent). Sorry, doesn't work.

> >

> > Nandu

>

> Nandu,

> Please don't put words into my mouth..... I am not conveniencing

Amma

> with anything.

>

> But I feel that too much is being expected of Her by the entire

world

> just because some disciples and devotees, in their frenzied

devotion,

> have called Her Omniscient and Divine Mother.

>

> Several things are wrong with the way these discussions are going.

> 1. No one has a precise, agreed-upon definition of what omniscient

is,

> and how, if at all, it really applies to mystics.

> 2. No one knows, WITH ANY REAL AUTHORITY, what a "Divine Mother"

is or

> is supposed to do, although almost everyone is quick to blame Amma

of

> inaction!

> 3. These remarks are written as if Amma has declared herself to be

the

> Divine Mother of the world (which she never has publicly), and that

> writing these remarks here is supposed to make the (supposedly

dumb)

> devotees cringe in despair and then leave her. It almost looks

like a

> "brownie-point" scoring game for some intellectuals.

> 4. What is laughable here is that She is the single most hard-

working

> person around, and the least judgemental of any person in the

world,

> and almost all of us are quick to judge what SHE DID NOT DO!

>

> I am convinced that Amma sees a picture of the world very very

unlike,

> and much more profound than, what we see. And that we have no

CAPACITY

> to evaluate what she sees, or judge what she does with her vision.

>

> For example:

> What did She see in the tsunami that she is helping out so much?

> Why is she (SO OBVIOUSLY) helping the tsunami victims and not

people

> in the ongoing african famine?

> Even in the tsunami, Why only India and Sri Lanka? Why not the

worst

> hit - Indonesia? or the other countries?

> What about the daily rape victims of the world?

> What about the people dying in accidents throughout the world?

> Why should she not help any of these and others if She is the

Divine

> Mother?

>

> We don't have answers; we can't have answers that easily, that

seems

> to be our lot. On the other hand, it is also easy to criticize her

> because she does not do so many things (as exampled above)!

>

> But saying that because She does not save all the people in the

world

> or comparing Amma's healing services and techniques with a regular

> money-earning doctor and saying that she is not the Divine Mother

and

> thereby implying she may not be deserving of the respect she has

been

> given by people is insulting to her legacy (legacy being

represented

> by 33 years of hugs, established schools and colleges, orphanages,

> hospitals, old age homes, AIDS hospices etc, and the numerous

people

> whose lives she has transformed by gradually inculcating some

level of

> bhakti, spirituality and humility (the last in that list would be

this

> totally undeserving guy who has dared to call

himself "ammasson")).

>

> Criticism is one thing; insult is totally another.

>

> I am convinced that Amma will have somebody or the other

criticizing

> her for the rest of her life (whether they are capable of assesing

her

> or not), no matter how much good she does in this life. I guess

> nothing can be done about that. Hence, my attitude towards that

is: if

> you can't see Amma's genuineness, better cricize her and know about

> her than not to know about her at all. atleast that is a source for

> some good karma to you - God bless!

>

> But insults (even if unintended), I will fight all insults to her

that

> I come across, and I exhort everybody in the list (including you,

> Nandu and anamikafisher - I know you did not mean to insult her at

> all) to do the same.

>

> Jai Ma!

 

 

 

 

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

 

 

 

Ammachi/

 

Ammachi

 

 

 

 

 

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Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

 

 

[Guest guest]

> And regardless of whatever anyone says, Amma IS one of the most

hardworking selfless beings ever to walk upon the earth, and our

lives are infinitely blessed in having been able to come in contact

with Her. )

>

> bala

>

 

 

Bala,

 

You have put it very beautifully. I think SHE is the most hardworking

person to walk upon the earth. OTA in an earlier post compared the

tsunami in Amritapuri to the Govardhana mountain episode from the

Bhagavatam and I totally agree with it. Has my life been blessed

after meeting Amma?ABSOLUTELY.

 

The demons hiranyakasipu and hiranyayaksha who were outwardly the

sworn enemies of Visnu, were in truth his personal guards. So maybe

critics of Amma are closer to Her than we think eh ? LOL.

 

-yogaman