Doubting The Guru By Amma's Grace

[Guest guest]

I had a very odd situation the other night and I am hoping if any others have

had this happen, they will share. From what I found in pieces on the Internet, I

have learned that other people have experienced this with Mother, and that it

is by her will that we experience it. It was very disturbing to say the least,

and I

am trying to find the meaning in it.

 

What is so strange is that TWO people experienced it at the EXACT same time

without being aware the other was experiencing it. No conversation was had

to cause this to come about...it just happened in a flash, with no awarenes that

it was going to happen. It was as if the feeling was "put upon" us rather than

our conscious minds "thinking" it. Hard to describe in words, but it was as if

something entered us, caused us to think these things and then simply went

away.

 

The feeling lasted for 15 minutes at most. When the feeling went away, all we

were left with was the thought, "What the heck was that all about? That was

crazy!"

 

Neither of us knew the same thing happened to the other until one of us came

forward and said "I had the most awful thing happen earlier..." Whereupon

both of us bursted out into exclamations of "Me too!Are you serious??? The

same EXACT THING happened to me but I didn't want to say anything

because I felt so awful about it!!!"

 

Here's what happened....

 

I was in the shower and my partner was sitting in the living room. We both

experienced it at the same time, just in different rooms. I will relay only my

experience here obviously because hers was exactly the same. I was in the

shower and all of a sudden I was stricken (literally stricken because it came

from out of nowhere.) with this intense paranoia that Amma was not who I

thought she was, maybe she was just a kind, loving person but not really an

avatar, maybe every amazing thing I experienced with her was a giant

coincidence, maybe I am delusional, maybe I am swept up in this and she is

not God, maybe everyone is being fooled.....and on and on and on with such

paranoia that my legs were actually shaking.

 

This all lasted for about 10-15 minutes and then in a flash I was back to my

normal self and thinking, "What just happened?What is the matter with me?"

"That is so ridiculous that I just went through that."

 

Because, the truth is I have not ever had nor do I have any doubts AT ALL. It

was like experiencing very strongly something that you could never in a

million years conjure up the belief to feel. It was as bizarre as me sitting

down

to eat a steak when I am a devoted vegetarian. Again, I did not consciously

stand there and intellectualize about it.....it just HAPPENED.

 

Both of us kept the situation to ourselves for awhile because we were both so

embarassed that it had happened. Then, when we found that we both

experienced the exact same thing at the exact same time, we knew that it was

Mother's hand creating the situation.

 

Is this a common thing to happen on the path? I have found a bit on the

Internet of this happening to other devotees as part of a test of our devotion.

I

am curious to see if anyone here can offer further insight on this.

 

In Amma,

 

Michelle

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivayah,

 

Michelle, I'm pretty sure that for as long as there

have been spiritual masters and their disciples, there

have been doubts. I myself had a similar experience a

few years ago when someone posted something nasty (and

bogus) about Mother on this list.

 

My feeling is that it's very natural to doubt a

spiritual master, especially one that you are trying

to surrender to. It's just the mind/ego doing it's

thing, trying to distract you from the awakening. One

thing I've learned is that when this stuff comes up

(doubt, longing, fear, feeling of unworthiness, shame,

etc.) it's good to not judge, and to just feel it and

let it move through you. It's really a purification,

and we can embrace it because it's ALL coming from

Her.

 

Amma is not hiding anything. I've had plenty of

doubts, but over the years I've experienced so many

inexplicable miracles, and I have been so changed,

opened and humbled by what has come from my

relationship with Her, that the doubt is just a tiny

whisper every now and then. And when it does come up,

I recognize it as the mind/ego doing it's thing,

fighting to protect itself, and I just try to witness

that and stay in my heart.

 

blessings,

 

Prajna

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

on 4/25/05 12:38 PM, michellewalsh88 at michellewalsh88 wrote:

 

> I was stricken (literally stricken because it came

> from out of nowhere.) with this intense paranoia that Amma was not who I

> thought she was, maybe she was just a kind, loving person but not really an

> avatar, maybe every amazing thing I experienced with her was a giant

> coincidence, maybe I am delusional, maybe I am swept up in this and she is

> not God, maybe everyone is being fooled.....and on and on and on with such

> paranoia that my legs were actually shaking.

 

What difference would it make, to you or to anyone, if she isn't an Avatar?

Has she said in no uncertain terms that she is one, or does she just allow

the people around her to say she is? Isn't her contribution to the world

sufficient without her having to "be" anything in particular? Of course

she's God, but so are you and so am I. She just knows it better than we do.

 

BTW, being "kind and loving" doesn't not necessarily go hand in hand with

being an Avatar. Parasurama, an Avatar of Vishnu, spent his life

decapitating kshatriyas with an ax. Maybe the story is symbolic but the

Puranas portray it as literal. And Amma has been known to swear, hit people,

etc. I don't think any the less of her for this. She is cosmic, but like

everyone else on the planet, no matter how enlightened they may be, she has

a personality influenced at least in part by her life experiences. It is

also clear, from many situations, that while she knows a heck of a lot,

often of things she couldn't have known through "normal" means, she is not

omniscient. So what?

 

Knowing the Self will free you from dependence on clinging to a belief in

anyone or anything, and you may just find that this enables you to

appreciate everyone and everything all the more.

[Guest guest]

Interesting experience. My gut feeling is this was sent by Amma to help

you both clear out some old vasanas. My feeling is that Amma tests us in

all kinds of interesting ways that we'll never figure out with our

surface mind. If you can see it as just another empty, ephemeral

experience, then perhaps the experience is an unusual wrapping to a

valuable insight.

 

FWIW

 

In Amma's Arms,

 

Advait

 

michellewalsh88 wrote:

 

>I had a very odd situation the other night and I am hoping if any others have

>had this happen, they will share. From what I found in pieces on the Internet,

I

>have learned that other people have experienced this with Mother, and that it

>is by her will that we experience it. It was very disturbing to say the least,

and I

>am trying to find the meaning in it.

>

>What is so strange is that TWO people experienced it at the EXACT same time

>without being aware the other was experiencing it. No conversation was had

>to cause this to come about...it just happened in a flash, with no awarenes

that

>it was going to happen. It was as if the feeling was "put upon" us rather than

>our conscious minds "thinking" it. Hard to describe in words, but it was as if

>something entered us, caused us to think these things and then simply went

>away.

>

>The feeling lasted for 15 minutes at most. When the feeling went away, all we

>were left with was the thought, "What the heck was that all about? That was

>crazy!"

>

>Neither of us knew the same thing happened to the other until one of us came

>forward and said "I had the most awful thing happen earlier..." Whereupon

>both of us bursted out into exclamations of "Me too!Are you serious??? The

>same EXACT THING happened to me but I didn't want to say anything

>because I felt so awful about it!!!"

>

>Here's what happened....

>

>I was in the shower and my partner was sitting in the living room. We both

>experienced it at the same time, just in different rooms. I will relay only my

>experience here obviously because hers was exactly the same. I was in the

>shower and all of a sudden I was stricken (literally stricken because it came

>from out of nowhere.) with this intense paranoia that Amma was not who I

>thought she was, maybe she was just a kind, loving person but not really an

>avatar, maybe every amazing thing I experienced with her was a giant

>coincidence, maybe I am delusional, maybe I am swept up in this and she is

>not God, maybe everyone is being fooled.....and on and on and on with such

>paranoia that my legs were actually shaking.

>

>This all lasted for about 10-15 minutes and then in a flash I was back to my

>normal self and thinking, "What just happened?What is the matter with me?"

>"That is so ridiculous that I just went through that."

>

>Because, the truth is I have not ever had nor do I have any doubts AT ALL. It

>was like experiencing very strongly something that you could never in a

>million years conjure up the belief to feel. It was as bizarre as me sitting

down

>to eat a steak when I am a devoted vegetarian. Again, I did not consciously

>stand there and intellectualize about it.....it just HAPPENED.

>

>Both of us kept the situation to ourselves for awhile because we were both so

>embarassed that it had happened. Then, when we found that we both

>experienced the exact same thing at the exact same time, we knew that it was

>Mother's hand creating the situation.

>

>Is this a common thing to happen on the path? I have found a bit on the

>Internet of this happening to other devotees as part of a test of our devotion.

I

>am curious to see if anyone here can offer further insight on this.

>

>In Amma,

>

>Michelle

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

> Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

.. And Amma has been known to swear, hit people,

> etc. I don't think any the less of her for this. She

> is cosmic, but like everyone else on the planet, no

matter how enlightened they may be, she has

> a personality influenced at least in part by her

> life experiences. It is also clear, from many

situations, that while she knows a heck of a lot,

> often of things she couldn't have known through

> "normal" means, she is not omniscient. So what?

 

Om Namah Shivayah,

 

Isn't it our own mental concepts about "appropriate

behavior" that cause us to judge such actions? Every

move She makes is so packed with shakti, it seems that

any hitting or swearing is surely an act put on to

break down the ego of the recipient, surely not an

expression of Her personality.

 

In fact, I would argue that She has no personality.

Personality is something that arises as a result of

identification with the body, the sense of

individuality, and I don't think Amma has that. She

seems to shift and change according to whomever She is

with, and whatever their needs are at the time.

 

I believe that Amma has total unrestricted access. Of

course She has taken birth in a physical body, and the

"mind" has it's own set of limitations. However, who

are we to assume that She is or is not omnicient? Her

body/mind is certainly not omnicient, as these are

temporary and limited in nature, but clearly She is

fully established in Being.

 

What "many situations" do you refer to? I would submit

that just because She doesn't always tell us what we

want to hear, perhaps we could try to allow for own

own limitations in understanding, since we are

established in our egos, and She is established in

Being.

 

For what it's worth, there have been a few occasions

where Amma has said or acted in a way that totally

contradicted my understanding of my own life, yet

later came to have great significance. Who can

understand the ways of such a great being except one

who is in the same state? People said the same thing

about Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Nisargadatta

Maharaj and Neem Karoli Baba, that they were "wrong"

about some of the things they said or did.

 

Well, there's my two cents.

 

love and blessings,

 

Prajna

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"As long as your mind exists, you will judge the Mahatma's ways as

strange, but when you slowly start to control the mind and thoughts,

you will realize that there was nothing strange at all about the

Mahatma, it was only your mind that was strange."

Awaken Children - Vol. 7 p149

 

Does this help?

[Guest guest]

Interesting experience. As far as I know, Amma has never claimed to

be God, Avatar, or anything like that. Therefore how you

experienced her in your vision is consistent with what she claims

about herself. I don't see any problem at all.

labd

 

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "michellewalsh88"

<michellewalsh88@h...> wrote:

>

> I had a very odd situation the other night and I am hoping if any

others have

> had this happen, they will share. From what I found in pieces on

the Internet, I

> have learned that other people have experienced this with Mother,

and that it

> is by her will that we experience it. It was very disturbing to

say the least, and I

> am trying to find the meaning in it.

>

> What is so strange is that TWO people experienced it at the EXACT

same time

> without being aware the other was experiencing it. No

conversation was had

> to cause this to come about...it just happened in a flash, with no

awarenes that

> it was going to happen. It was as if the feeling was "put upon" us

rather than

> our conscious minds "thinking" it. Hard to describe in words, but

it was as if

> something entered us, caused us to think these things and then

simply went

> away.

>

> The feeling lasted for 15 minutes at most. When the feeling went

away, all we

> were left with was the thought, "What the heck was that all about?

That was

> crazy!"

>

> Neither of us knew the same thing happened to the other until one

of us came

> forward and said "I had the most awful thing happen earlier..."

Whereupon

> both of us bursted out into exclamations of "Me too!Are you

serious??? The

> same EXACT THING happened to me but I didn't want to say anything

> because I felt so awful about it!!!"

>

> Here's what happened....

>

> I was in the shower and my partner was sitting in the living room.

We both

> experienced it at the same time, just in different rooms. I will

relay only my

> experience here obviously because hers was exactly the same. I was

in the

> shower and all of a sudden I was stricken (literally stricken

because it came

> from out of nowhere.) with this intense paranoia that Amma was not

who I

> thought she was, maybe she was just a kind, loving person but not

really an

> avatar, maybe every amazing thing I experienced with her was a

giant

> coincidence, maybe I am delusional, maybe I am swept up in this

and she is

> not God, maybe everyone is being fooled.....and on and on and on

with such

> paranoia that my legs were actually shaking.

>

> This all lasted for about 10-15 minutes and then in a flash I was

back to my

> normal self and thinking, "What just happened?What is the

matter with me?"

> "That is so ridiculous that I just went through that."

>

> Because, the truth is I have not ever had nor do I have any doubts

AT ALL. It

> was like experiencing very strongly something that you could never

in a

> million years conjure up the belief to feel. It was as bizarre as

me sitting down

> to eat a steak when I am a devoted vegetarian. Again, I did not

consciously

> stand there and intellectualize about it.....it just HAPPENED.

>

> Both of us kept the situation to ourselves for awhile because we

were both so

> embarassed that it had happened. Then, when we found that we both

> experienced the exact same thing at the exact same time, we knew

that it was

> Mother's hand creating the situation.

>

> Is this a common thing to happen on the path? I have found a bit

on the

> Internet of this happening to other devotees as part of a test of

our devotion. I

> am curious to see if anyone here can offer further insight on this.

>

> In Amma,

>

> Michelle