Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 > > Keval - Negativity is not the way to lightening > up our lives. To me 1980 was a fantastically > wonderful, beautiful year - my son was born - a > light in this world. Point taken.. however, when I think of 1980, where would I start? Yes, there was the "Miracle on Ice" if you're a hockey fan, but that hardly makes up for the abject failure of the Carter administration both on the home front and standing up to Iran and the then-Soviet Union (and here in Canada another spineless - and chinless to boot! - wimp, Joe Clark, served as Prime Minister for a few months), the keystone kops-like attempt to rescue the hostages in Iran, the boycotted Moscow Olympics (one of many bad decisions that cost Carter the '80 election), cruddy songs such as Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall", cruddy movies such as "Heaven's Gate", the assassination of John Lennon... not to mention that it was a good 6 or 7 years before anyone outside of India had even heard of Amma! > > Can anyone explain "renunciate fee" to me? > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front by western devotees who want to live as renunciates at the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order of $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate you are no longer attached to money, but this seems to me like a case of "gouge the westerners for all they're worth", so common in India. BTW, another reminder for those who receive messages in digest form: when replying to a message, don't leave the subject line as "Re: Digest number ----". Change the subject to something that relates to the item to which you are replying. Keval _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front by > western devotees who want to live as renunciates at > the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order of > $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate you > are no longer attached to money, but this seems to me > like a case of "gouge the westerners for all they're > worth", so common in India. > > Keval > The 'so common in India' is not 'gouge the Westerners' but gouge the rich. Although, if you look at India's history, Westerners have been busy with 'gouge the Indians'. Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Hi Keval, Is that it $12,000 ? Big deal huh ? I have donated tons more than that and not feel gouged. You don't feel gouged by a $5 coffee or $300 shoes, do you ? Anyway I'll relate my experience of being gouged for $10,000 and you figure who gouged whom. My son had an accident. I just started my job and didn't have insurance yet. The surgery and the stay in the hospital cost more than $20,000. However when I applied for insurance a month later the insurance company miraculously started the coverage date a few days before my son's accident though that's not the usual process. I ended up paying nothing. I expressed my appreciation by donating $10,000 to AIMS. Ravi, the sucker. - Mike Brooker Ammachi Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:35 AM Re: renunciate fee, 1980 > > Can anyone explain "renunciate fee" to me? > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front by western devotees who want to live as renunciates at the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order of $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate you are no longer attached to money, but this seems to me like a case of "gouge the westerners for all they're worth", so common in India. BTW, another reminder for those who receive messages in digest form: when replying to a message, don't leave the subject line as "Re: Digest number ----". Change the subject to something that relates to the item to which you are replying. Keval _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Well, 12 thousand dollars is more than I "earn" in a year. Not all Americans are rich. I'm retired on a Disability pension. As a renunciate, I guess Amma's ashram would provide me with a roof over my head and daily meals. In return I'd be doing seva around the ashram. But I find it ironic that I don't have enough money to become a "renunciate." -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:27:39 -0700 "Ravi Bharadwaj" <ravibharadwaj writes: > Hi Keval, Is that it $12,000 ? Big deal huh ? I have donated tons > more than that and not feel gouged. You don't feel gouged by a $5 > coffee or $300 shoes, do you ? Anyway I'll relate my experience of > being gouged for $10,000 and you figure who gouged whom. > > My son had an accident. I just started my job and didn't have > insurance yet. The surgery and the stay in the hospital cost more > than $20,000. However when I applied for insurance a month later the > insurance company miraculously started the coverage date a few days > before my son's accident though that's not the usual process. I > ended up paying nothing. I expressed my appreciation by donating > $10,000 to AIMS. > > Ravi, the sucker. > > > - > Mike Brooker > Ammachi > Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:35 AM > Re: renunciate fee, 1980 > > > > > > Can anyone explain "renunciate fee" to me? > > > > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front by > western devotees who want to live as renunciates at > the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order of > $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate you > are no longer attached to money, but this seems to me > like a case of "gouge the westerners for all they're > worth", so common in India. > > BTW, another reminder for those who receive messages > in digest form: when replying to a message, don't > leave the subject line as "Re: Digest number ----". > Change the subject to something that relates to the > item to which you are replying. > > Keval > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote. > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > Links > > > > > > ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 OK now this is a good example - if the ashram wouldn't have this rule it will be overpopulated with people who just want to live off Amma. Trust me it wouldn't be a problem finding wannabe "renunciates" in India. It has always been a good excuse for some people in India to leave their family and head for Himalayas. People spend tens of thousands of dollars in this country for education and health care. The fact that you pay $12,000 indicates that you are really serious about renunciation. Hope you don't take this personally, I have no intention of offending anyone. I am pretty sure I would have been a renunciate in 1993 when I was broke, if I met Amma then that is. - kalipadma Ammachi Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:21 PM Re: Re: renunciate fee, 1980 Well, 12 thousand dollars is more than I "earn" in a year. Not all Americans are rich. I'm retired on a Disability pension. As a renunciate, I guess Amma's ashram would provide me with a roof over my head and daily meals. In return I'd be doing seva around the ashram. But I find it ironic that I don't have enough money to become a "renunciate." -- Len/ Kalipadma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 I have friends who work for housing projects , and it is truly sad to see the amounts of people who can't afford normal living ( this in in America ) more and more people here are becoming poor . I dont understand the 12 thousand fee ? what do you mean to buy house or land ? anyway i think the point with Ammachi is not to just abandone everything in life , one can lead spiritual life also in the west . regards, Namaste Joanna S --- kalipadma wrote: > > Well, 12 thousand dollars is more than I "earn" in a > year. Not all > Americans are rich. I'm retired on a Disability > pension. As a > renunciate, I guess Amma's ashram would provide me > with a roof over my > head and daily meals. In return I'd be doing seva > around the ashram. > But I find it ironic that I don't have enough money > to become a > "renunciate." > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:27:39 -0700 "Ravi Bharadwaj" > <ravibharadwaj writes: > > Hi Keval, Is that it $12,000 ? Big deal huh ? I > have donated tons > > more than that and not feel gouged. You don't feel > gouged by a $5 > > coffee or $300 shoes, do you ? Anyway I'll relate > my experience of > > being gouged for $10,000 and you figure who gouged > whom. > > > > My son had an accident. I just started my job and > didn't have > > insurance yet. The surgery and the stay in the > hospital cost more > > than $20,000. However when I applied for insurance > a month later the > > insurance company miraculously started the > coverage date a few days > > before my son's accident though that's not the > usual process. I > > ended up paying nothing. I expressed my > appreciation by donating > > $10,000 to AIMS. > > > > Ravi, the sucker. > > > > > > - > > Mike Brooker > > Ammachi > > Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:35 AM > > Re: renunciate fee, 1980 > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone explain "renunciate fee" to me? > > > > > > > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front > by > > western devotees who want to live as renunciates > at > > the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order > of > > $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate > you > > are no longer attached to money, but this seems > to me > > like a case of "gouge the westerners for all > they're > > worth", so common in India. > > > > BTW, another reminder for those who receive > messages > > in digest form: when replying to a message, > don't > > leave the subject line as "Re: Digest number > ----". > > Change the subject to something that relates to > the > > item to which you are replying. > > > > Keval > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > > http://vote. > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > > > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > > > --~-> > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________ > Get your name as your email address. > Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and > more > Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name > today! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Kalipadma, IMHO you are a renunciate - but not by choice. You just aren't living in the ashram. For some people $12,000 is a drop in the bucket - worth checking it out for a year. It's all relative. I also do not mean to offend anyone, and apologize if I have. prasadini Ravi Bharadwaj wrote: > OK now this is a good example - if the ashram wouldn't have this rule > it will be overpopulated with people who just want to live off Amma. > Trust me it wouldn't be a problem finding wannabe "renunciates" in > India. It has always been a good excuse for some people in India to > leave their family and head for Himalayas. People spend tens of > thousands of dollars in this country for education and health care. > The fact that you pay $12,000 indicates that you are really serious > about renunciation. Hope you don't take this personally, I have no > intention of offending anyone. I am pretty sure I would have been a > renunciate in 1993 when I was broke, if I met Amma then that is. > - > kalipadma > Ammachi > Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:21 PM > Re: Re: renunciate fee, 1980 > > > > Well, 12 thousand dollars is more than I "earn" in a year. Not all > Americans are rich. I'm retired on a Disability pension. As a > renunciate, I guess Amma's ashram would provide me with a roof over > my > head and daily meals. In return I'd be doing seva around the > ashram. > But I find it ironic that I don't have enough money to become a > "renunciate." > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > Sponsor [click here] > > ------------------------------ > Links > > * > Ammachi/ > > * > Ammachi > > * Terms of > Service. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 If you abandon "everything," somebody else has to support you while you have a body, whether that means generous person who still holds down a job, or some religious organization. The one renouncing needs to have some very valuable purpose to fulfill considering the sacrifice of others on his/her behalf. Aikya Ammachi, joanna pollner <joannapollner> wrote: > I have friends who work for housing projects , and it > is truly sad > to see the amounts of people who can't afford normal > living ( this in > in America ) more and more people here are becoming > poor . > > I dont understand the 12 thousand fee ? what do you > mean to buy house or land ? anyway i think the point > with Ammachi is not to just abandone everything in > life , one can lead spiritual life also in the west . > > regards, Namaste Joanna S > --- kalipadma@j... wrote: > > > > > Well, 12 thousand dollars is more than I "earn" in a > > year. Not all > > Americans are rich. I'm retired on a Disability > > pension. As a > > renunciate, I guess Amma's ashram would provide me > > with a roof over my > > head and daily meals. In return I'd be doing seva > > around the ashram. > > But I find it ironic that I don't have enough money > > to become a > > "renunciate." > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:27:39 -0700 "Ravi Bharadwaj" > > <ravibharadwaj@h...> writes: > > > Hi Keval, Is that it $12,000 ? Big deal huh ? I > > have donated tons > > > more than that and not feel gouged. You don't feel > > gouged by a $5 > > > coffee or $300 shoes, do you ? Anyway I'll relate > > my experience of > > > being gouged for $10,000 and you figure who gouged > > whom. > > > > > > My son had an accident. I just started my job and > > didn't have > > > insurance yet. The surgery and the stay in the > > hospital cost more > > > than $20,000. However when I applied for insurance > > a month later the > > > insurance company miraculously started the > > coverage date a few days > > > before my son's accident though that's not the > > usual process. I > > > ended up paying nothing. I expressed my > > appreciation by donating > > > $10,000 to AIMS. > > > > > > Ravi, the sucker. > > > > > > > > > - > > > Mike Brooker > > > Ammachi > > > Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:35 AM > > > Re: renunciate fee, 1980 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone explain "renunciate fee" to me? > > > > > > > > > > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front > > by > > > western devotees who want to live as renunciates > > at > > > the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order > > of > > > $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate > > you > > > are no longer attached to money, but this seems > > to me > > > like a case of "gouge the westerners for all > > they're > > > worth", so common in India. > > > > > > BTW, another reminder for those who receive > > messages > > > in digest form: when replying to a message, > > don't > > > leave the subject line as "Re: Digest number > > ----". > > > Change the subject to something that relates to > > the > > > item to which you are replying. > > > > > > Keval > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > > today! > > > http://vote. > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > > --------------------~--> > > > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > > > > > > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > > > > > > - -~-> > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________ > > Get your name as your email address. > > Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and > > more > > Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name > > today! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 vallathnkumar <vallathn wrote: Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: > There is a hefty fee that must be paid up front by > western devotees who want to live as renunciates at > the Amritapuri ashram. Something on the order of > $12,000!! Of course if you become a renunciate you > are no longer attached to money, but this seems to me > like a case of "gouge the westerners for all they're > worth", so common in India. > > Keval > Hmmm! where should I start. Kevalji, I paid $45,000 for four years of my undergrad education in United States and I am from India. Fee is far less if one is a US Citizen. International Students are issued F1 Visa and the regulations on this visa are such that it is illegal to work off-campus. Simply speaking, I have to get all the money from India. When it is so difficult for local students to pay the fee, Imagine the plight of students from developing countries. Worst part is that International students are not supposed to take semester off (like local students do somtimes to earn money for the next semester)one has to register semester after semester caughing money semister after semister. If at all one has to take a semester off say for health or other emergemcy reasons he has to leave the country. Perhaps the most ridiculus thing I encountered was "International student Registration fee" where I paid $450 per registration. Even if had to register one credit( around $350) I had to pay $450, since I am regitering that credit. As a reult I had to pay $45,000/4year, while most of the Graduate Students pay $25,000~$30,000/2year. I can simply say that US gauging is unprecidnted Now people working on H1 visa(which is temporary job visa) have to pay double the tax comapred to the local people, perhaps most absurd is that H1 holders has to pay for Medicaid too. It is absolutley fair to pay state and federal taxes, but why on Earth an International employee working for couple years on contract basis has to pay for domestic health program is beyond my comprehension. So who is gauging whom. Kevalji, forget about all that. I live in Danbury,CT and I along with roomate pay $1,100/month rent excluding utilities. With that amount we would be paying $13,200/year excluding utilities.Which one is cheaper $13,200/year excluding utilities or $12,000/life including utilities. Kevalji, $12,000 for Americans is not a big deal. Illegal immigrants working for cash at restaurants, Gas stations, baby sitting etc etc with little are no English (Especially Latin Americans) can make that money in Year or two. Kevalji, I sincerely take exception for your statement "gouge the westerners for all they're worth", so common in India. I think culprit is playing role of a victim here. Perhaps I don't want to remind Colonial History. What about recent US Invasion of Iraq for OIL. I am sorry to say that Westerners are master gaugers. Look at the Visa System, most of the Europeans don't need Visa to enter US/Cannada, while Indians and host of other third world countries need one and have to pay for it. What about the recent "transit visa" system, if I am travelling to India from US and I had to catch connecting flight at Paris or London, I need to have France or UK visa. This is for just stopping at London airpot for several hours to catch the connecting flight, remember passengers don't want to venture outside the airport they just want to wait for the connecting flight. For US/Cannadian and Host of other Europeans it is as usaul they need not have one. History teaches its always Westerners who ripped money and wealth from Asians or land from Africans. If any US citizen is cribbing or making huge deal about $12,000/life, than they must be either meanest of the mean or dumbest of the bumb. Ironically even with Indian standards $12,000/life is a cheapest deal. BTW Ammachi is not into profit making business or spending that money lavishly, instead ----you know numerous Nishkama Karma Sevay. Namashivaya. Avinash. Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Avinashji, Namah Shivaya. Kevalji has already apologized for the comment and we dont have to keep reminding him about it. Some additional info: 1. Comparing the fees paid by 'International Students' in America with the 'renunciate fee' paid by anyone wishing to join Amma's ashram is nothing short of ridiculous. We have millions of foreign students each year and how many new renunciates at the ashram each year? One, two,... Agreed, both are for some sort of 'education' but that's where the similarity ends. When I visited Amma's ashram, I was asked to pay the daily room rate for anyone from outside India, even though I am Indian [Confession: The difference is marginal, but I wanted to test something out. I tried to put up an act that I was local, but the sharp old guy there 'caught' me and I had to take up the western room] So, anyone outside India (Indians included) would be required to take care of the renunciate fee. 'Westerners' could now mean anyone who does not live in India. 2. Undergraduate and business students who decide to study in the US generally come from the more affluent families who can pay their way for all the years of study. Of course, this constitutes the 'commerce' segment of the education market and these students bring in funds worth billions of dollars a year into the US. Almost 70-80% percent of graduate (Masters or Phd) students in many technology fields (this atom included) in US schools are international students. The majority of these students are from India and China and virtually have a 'free' education, thanks to Teaching and Research Assistantships. For that I say, thank you America. >>If any US citizen is cribbing or making huge deal about >>$12,000/life, than they must be either meanest of the mean or >>dumbest of the bumb. Ouch!! Not a very kind comment brother. If you have any bright ideas (not lottery tickets do share and help the rest of the group. I know quite a few people working their butts out to make it to Amma's arms forever (wannabe renunciates). May Amma speak through you or anyone else here to show them a faster path. Like Bala said, Amma will always show a way out if one is sincere and if one finds it difficult to take care of the fee. I know people who have taken up voluntary jobs in Amma's institutions as part of their seva. Others have taken up salaried jobs as well. Amme Sharanam, ota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 > > Kevalji, I sincerely take exception for your > statement "gouge the westerners for all they're > worth", so common in India. Perhaps not "gouged for all they're worth" but any westerner who has taken a taxi or rickshaw in India will almost certainly be overcharged by a few hundred rupees. "Those who have more pay more" is an accepted fact of life in India, and apparently even applies to Indian-born holders of European, American or Canadian passports. When rickshaw-wallahs or hotel touts ask what country you are from, it's to figure out how much to overcharge, with the largest ripoffs reserved for Americans (presumably because they have the most money) and Brits (payback for colonial abuse). I think culprit is > playing role of a victim here. Perhaps I don't want > to remind Colonial History. What about recent US > Invasion of Iraq for OIL. The war in Iraq has little to do with oil. It's mainly a war for Israel, pushed by the mostly Jewish neo-con chicken hawks surrounding Gee Dubya, who can't wait to foist a "regime change" on Israel's other enemies (i.e. Syria or Iran). Don't you believe Dubya's lies when he says the Al'Qaeda terrorists "hate our freedom". They hate the fact that every U.S. president since Harry Truman has backed Israel to the hilt. I am sorry to say that > Westerners are master gaugers. Look at the Visa > System, most of the Europeans don't need Visa to > enter US/Cannada, while Indians and host of other > third world countries need one and have to pay for > it. 9/11...9/11...9/11. After all, it wasn't a bunch of Swedes or Lithuanians who flew planes into the WTC and Pentagon. > > If any US citizen is cribbing or making huge deal > about $12,000/life, than they must be either meanest > of the mean or dumbest of the bumb. Ironically even > with Indian standards $12,000/life is a cheapest > deal. I've already apologized for not checking my facts. $12,000 may be more than I could afford, but it isn't too bad a price for a permanent home on such sacred ground. OK larki aur larkion, let's drop this thread!!! Keval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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