Guest guest Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 I have no interest in getting into this debate, but i wanted to post an interview answer given by Mother in rediff (one of India's most respected news sources) about handling criticism - the original itself is at http://im.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/02inter1.htm ... Question: You have many critics. Answer: Critics will be there. But they are not there now the way they were when the avatars of gods were born -- like Christ, or Ram or Krishna. So many people were killed before their birth, and so many were killed even when they were living. So, that will always be there. And criticism should be there. The easiest way to destroy a nation is to not criticize the prime minister. Only when criticism comes will the flaws be highlighted. I am not angry with them. There will always be differences of view. > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:17:16 -0000 "medshanti" ><medshanti Re: Digest Number 1201 > >To hopefully bring a peaceful end to this discussion: > >Amma has is now quoted (below) on this subject and says she tried to >dissuade the Swami. Some like to consider such things, but this group is >not a place where such things are discussed without upsetting too many >people. The Amma Free Speech Zone , or other sites discussing >the pros and cons of such things, is the place where you can discuss these >issues, not here. Upsetting people by asking them to consider such things >here does nothing because nearly everyone here never sees any problem and >they do not come here to think about such things. Personally, I value >seeing Amma and reading some of what is here, but these incidents and the >attitudes of her followers have, as you suggest, changed my and some others >opinion on her, one reason why I'm not seeing her this time. The nature of >posts here have disillusioned me and many others about taking Amma as a >guru since to me the actions of her followers and those here obviously >reflect her wishes in these actions, and her wish that no one question >anything, but making such statements here upsets people here and so I do >not intend to repeat this. For the record, Amma herself does seem to >realize these issues are damaging her on the outside and aren't going to go >away: > >--------- San Jose Mercury News: > >"Asked about a controversial legal case in which a resident of her main >ashram in Kollam, India, had filed a defamation lawsuit seeking criminal >prosecution of a longtime critic of the sect, the guru said she had tried >to dissuade the plaintiff. But she added that the critic had gone too far, >making false claims that there had been seven suspicious deaths at the >Kollam ashram -- which houses more than 2,000 people -- outraging residents >and bereaved families. > >``This has been very painful,'' Amritanandamayi said. The case has not gone >to trial. While she did not say whether she planned to intervene, she said >the critic, author Sreeni Pattathanam, ``won't go to jail'' if he's >convicted. (Pattathanam says the threat of criminal prosecution violates >his right to free speech.)" ---------- >Again, this is my first and last post here on such matters unless Amma >herself comments further beyond what she has said or decides to further >intervene and request the Swami to desist. I do not want to offend anyone >further who does not understand why anyone would be concerned, but >considering what Amma herself has said, this needed to be said. > > _______________ Are you a cricket freak? CDs, books, and more goodies! http://www.msn.co.in/Shopping/CricketShop/ Available at the cricket shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 The one who says this certainly sounds like that Amma I was drawn to. I believe she meant what she said. You would then wonder why I would say that reading here would indicate a problem and that Amma thinks differently. If I were seeking to learn about Amma, the first thing I would notice here is that discussion is highly controlled, and that in practice, what Amma said about facing critics is not taken seriously by devotees. Thus we see that when Amma herself says that she tried to dissuade Swami from proceeding with charges under religious defamation laws, and when Amma, not him, is the target of the outrageous charges, and when the controversy is undermining Amma's image, why is it that discussion of the subject of the Swami's actions which Amma says she has discouraged effectively discouraged here and excluding questioners condoneed, by those same people who say faith in Amma is critical? As if the Devi required it, as if critics and lies could stand in the way of the divine and truth for long. Sri Ramana Maharshi's enlightened attitude towards critics, and his criticism of immature devotees reacting to critics, is described here by David Godman: "...Let me start with Ramana Maharshi. I have been researching his life and teachings for a large part of the last twenty-five years and in all that time I have not come across a single incident that I would keep out of the public domain because it might give people a bad idea of him. His behaviour and demeanour at all times were impeccable. All the attributes we associate with saintliness were present in him: kindness, gentleness, humility, equanimity, tolerance, and so on. For decades he lived his life fully in the public spotlight. He had no private room of his own, so everything he did and said was open to scrutiny. Except when he went to the bathroom, he was never behind a closed door. Up until the 1940s, if you wanted to come and see him at 2 a.m. in the morning, you could walk into the hall where he lived and sit with him. Some people did occasionally invent stories about him to try to discredit him, but no one who had moved with him closely would ever believe them. There was simply no scope for scandal or misbehaviour because his life was so public, and so saintly. He never dealt with money, never spoke badly of anyone, he owned nothing except his walking stick and his water pot, and he was never alone with a woman. Only people who had never watched him live his life could invent scandalous stories about him and expect other people to believe them. When outsiders did make up stories about him, Sri Ramana would react with amusement rather than annoyance. When a disgruntled ex-devotee brought out an extremely libellous pamphlet about him in the early 1930s, the ashram manager wanted to go to court and sue the author to protect the good name of Sri Ramana and the ashram. Sri Ramana dissuaded him and said, "Why don't you instead sell it at the front gate. The good devotees will read it and not believe a word of it. The bad devotees will believe it and stay away. That way we will get fewer visitors here." The manager, of course, could never agree to such a proposal since the devotees would not stand for such a scurrilous booklet being sold on the ashram's premises. However, the whole incident illustrates an interesting aspect of Sri Ramana's character: not only was he unmoved by personal criticism, he occasionally enjoyed it, and at times even seemed to revel in it. It is said in the sastras that response to praise or blame is one of the last things to go before enlightenment happens. It was definitely absent in Sri Ramana. Let me mention one other story that very few people have heard about. There used to be a scrapbook in the hall where Sri Ramana lived. If there were any stories about him in the newspapers, someone would cut them out and paste them in the book. They were either neutral reports that gave information about his life, teachings and ashram, or they were very favourable testimonials. One day a highly critical report appeared in a newspaper. Sri Ramana himself cut it out and pasted it on the front cover of the scrapbook, overruling the horrified objections of all the devotees. "Everyone should have their say," he said. "Why should we keep only the good reports? Why should we suppress the bad ones?" This is all a roundabout way of saying that there are no bad stories about Sri Ramana, so the question of suppressing them doesn't arise..." There is a lesson here, I think. But observing the dynamics here, Ammachi, "Sankaran narayanan" <n_sankaran_iyer@h...> wrote: > I have no interest in getting into this debate, but i wanted to post an > interview answer given by Mother in rediff (one of India's most respected > news sources) about handling criticism - the original itself is at > http://im.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/02inter1.htm ... > > Question: You have many critics. > > Answer: Critics will be there. But they are not there now the way they were > when the avatars of gods were born -- like Christ, or Ram or Krishna. So > many people were killed before their birth, and so many were killed even > when they were living. So, that will always be there. And criticism should > be there. The easiest way to destroy a nation is to not criticize the prime > minister. Only when criticism comes will the flaws be highlighted. I am not > angry with them. There will always be differences of view. > > > > > > >__________________ ____ > >__________________ ____ > > > >Message: 6 Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:17:16 -0000 "medshanti" > ><medshanti> Re: Digest Number 1201 > > > >To hopefully bring a peaceful end to this discussion: > > > >Amma has is now quoted (below) on this subject and says she tried to > >dissuade the Swami. Some like to consider such things, but this group is > >not a place where such things are discussed without upsetting too many > >people. The Amma Free Speech Zone , or other sites discussing > >the pros and cons of such things, is the place where you can discuss these > >issues, not here. Upsetting people by asking them to consider such things > >here does nothing because nearly everyone here never sees any problem and > >they do not come here to think about such things. Personally, I value > >seeing Amma and reading some of what is here, but these incidents and the > >attitudes of her followers have, as you suggest, changed my and some others > >opinion on her, one reason why I'm not seeing her this time. The nature of > >posts here have disillusioned me and many others about taking Amma as a > >guru since to me the actions of her followers and those here obviously > >reflect her wishes in these actions, and her wish that no one question > >anything, but making such statements here upsets people here and so I do > >not intend to repeat this. For the record, Amma herself does seem to > >realize these issues are damaging her on the outside and aren't going to go > >away: > > > >--------- San Jose Mercury News: > > > >"Asked about a controversial legal case in which a resident of her main > >ashram in Kollam, India, had filed a defamation lawsuit seeking criminal > >prosecution of a longtime critic of the sect, the guru said she had tried > >to dissuade the plaintiff. But she added that the critic had gone too far, > >making false claims that there had been seven suspicious deaths at the > >Kollam ashram -- which houses more than 2,000 people -- outraging residents > >and bereaved families. > > > >``This has been very painful,'' Amritanandamayi said. The case has not gone > >to trial. While she did not say whether she planned to intervene, she said > >the critic, author Sreeni Pattathanam, ``won't go to jail'' if he's > >convicted. (Pattathanam says the threat of criminal prosecution violates > >his right to free speech.)" ----- ----- > >Again, this is my first and last post here on such matters unless Amma > >herself comments further beyond what she has said or decides to further > >intervene and request the Swami to desist. I do not want to offend anyone > >further who does not understand why anyone would be concerned, but > >considering what Amma herself has said, this needed to be said. > > > > > > _______________ > Are you a cricket freak? CDs, books, and more goodies! > http://www.msn.co.in/Shopping/CricketShop/ Available at the cricket shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Brianna - Congrats on the new job and I note that your attitude is much lighter and open. Peace and joy to you and have fun. Gabriela, I must tell you a short story - and to cherish the sweet sorrow of separation, there are few things in life more precious. I met Amma in Seattle in 1998, and after Devi Bhava in Seattle, Amma was leaving ME, I was totally devasted, I was sobbing and sobbing and could not think of any thing else but that my MOTHER was leaving ME! Oh I was sooooo sad and sooo disoriented and soo empty without my MOTHER. I decided to fly to San Ramon, the ticket materialized, the time materialized and I ran ran ran away to San Ramon to see MY MOTHER again. Cherish the sorrow of separation... You are blessed and the joy will return, I promise. Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service, Supriti Omenka Nnadi New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.