Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Dear friends I find some of these messages about conversion deeply disturbing. Regardless of how mild they APPEAR, they are imbued with a sense of Fundamentalism, ie: claiming Hinduism is universal, non aggressive etc, and there are these "other" religions that are aggessive and so on. Here in Australia there has been a lot of publicity about the atrocities and violence meted out by Hindu mobs directed at other religions, in particular muslims. All this "hindu nationalism" seems contructed to divert people's attention from the real problems at hand that I've observed in India, eg: massive inequality and government corruption. Also the caste system allows huge exploitation of the lower castes. Its much easier to whip up hatred against other religions than deal with the very real problems right in front of you! There is a pretended paternalism in "protecting" people against conversion, and that democratic norms should not be followed in the "special case" of India - Its a slippery slope to fascism friends. WHY CAN'T WE REJOICE IN THE LOVE OF OUR AMMA AND NOT ENTER THIS RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT - for God is greater than all our religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 --- shanekeher <rehek wrote: > Dear friends > I find some of these messages about conversion > deeply disturbing. > Regardless of how mild they APPEAR, they are imbued > with a sense of > Fundamentalism, ie: claiming Hinduism is universal, > non aggressive > etc, and there are these "other" religions that are > aggessive and so > on. dear Shanekeher, Hindusim is in fact VERY MUCH Universal. Christianity and Islam claim they are the only true religions. While Christianity sticks to the irrational,illogical rhetoric that "Jesus is the only son of the God" and Islam adheres to "La Illallah Mahmudur Rasullallah" whcih means "Allah is the only true God and Mahamud is his prophet". If Christians keep repeating about their "only son of god" every time they attend the mass, Muslims have to remind themselves about their god( who is only the true one)five times a day. The very exitence of Christianity and Islam lies in their claim of exclusive access to the real god. Hinduism never claims that it is the only ture religion and terms like "infidel","pagan","heathen","kafir","crusade","jih-ad" are not found in its vacobulary. Hinduism's essence is "Vasudaivika kutumbikam" which means "Whole world is one family". Now what is so fundamentalism about this? > there has been a lot of > publicity about the > atrocities and violence meted out by Hindu mobs > directed at other > religions, in particular muslims. Dude! you need to wake up, please don't be so much ignorant. I don't want to talk about the plight of Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh and Kahmiri pundits. India has a muslim President, Christian Defence Minister, atleast 4 cricket players in Indian popular sport Cricket are Muslims, so are the popular Bollywood stars are muslims. Do you think all this is possible if there is violence against Muslims. You need to get the facts first, Hindu-Muslim clashes are not new India. They are happening since thousand years, right from the time of Prithvi Raj Chauhan, they happend during the times of Shivaji, Maharana Pratap, during Colonial rule, while partition, after partition, in 1969, in 1984, in 1990 and in 2002. Mind you in 2002, nearly 60 Ram devotees where charred to death by the deeds of muslim mobs, what ever happend that was reaction. Did you forget that US(population 300000K) the only super power declared war on Fallujah (population 200k) and killed nearly 1,000 people in retaliation for mutilating 4 US contracters. So why signal out India. > All this "hindu > nationalism" seems > contructed to divert people's attention from the > real problems at > hand that I've observed in India, eg: massive > inequality and > government corruption. These things are very much in existence since India got freedom. So the ruling govt which came into power in 1999 is not responsible for the prevailing atmosphere. > Also the caste system allows > huge exploitation > of the lower castes. OOOOOOOOOOOOH! no not again the 3C'S, the COLONIAL perspective of India "CASTE,CURRY,COW". C'mon buddy you need to be atleast little bit creative, this is 21'st century. Do you think caste system exists only in Hinduism. Do you know that all Christains in India retain their caste even after chainging their religion. For ex. Y.S.Rajashekar Reddy the CM of Andhra Pradesh is Christian, but still retains his "Reddy" tag. Reddys are powerful, affluent, upper caste people from Andhra. All converted Christian Reddys dont inter marry with Christians hailing form other communities such as Dalits, Harijans, Girijans. So is the situation in Kerala, where Syrian Christians don't inter marry Christians converted form backward class. Forget about marriage, even burial grounds are different. Now let us come to Islam. To find castism in Islam, one can find clear in Pakistani Punjabis. Unlike Indian Muslims, Pakistanis still retain their caste Identities. Common caste names among Pakistanis are Gujjar, Chowdry, Rana, Malik, Bhatt, Chauhan, Rathode, Dhar, etc. While Gujjar and Malik are Jat surnamee, Rathode, Rana and Chauhan are Rajput surnames,Bhatt and Dhar are Kasmirir pundit surnames. In Pakistan Rajputs and Jats never get together. Mind you all these people are muilms. I think I don't need to mention 101 sects in Islam like Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Salafi, Mahadhavi, Ahmediya, Bora, Khoja, Sufi etc. By the way couple of days back there was blast in Shite mosque in Karachi (as usual) killing 13 people and injuring 100s. Moreover in India there is reservation (70% of positions) for Backward class people science 1947. Thais is more than 50 years. Ok, if you are from Forward class and not financially well off, then scope of getting admission in India is almost nill. It so happens that most of the times BC's are financially well sounded but still can get a job or admissions on the basis of reservations. You should be brought up in India, to know the suffering and discrimination faced by FC students throught their life wether in admissions to school or jobs. IT IS ABSOLUTE REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. >Its much easier to whip up > hatred against other > religions than deal with the very real problems > right in front of you! Curently this is more applicable to Uncle Sam As I mentioned earlier, you need to follow current trends. Communal violence happend in 2002 and long forgotten. Right now India is in hot discussion for severel other reasons(not for 3C's though CASTE,CURRY,COW)BPO, Call Centers, Offshore Out Sourcing, Health Tourism etc. As I am writting this mail, Google is setting up its second development center in Hyderabad, first being in Banglore. India economic growth rate is 8.0%, forex reserves rose to $120 billion dollars for $25 billion in 1998,India's GDP is half-trillion dollars. Financial times predicts that India would be third largest economy by 2014. How do you think all these are possible? if there is a regressive, fascist government which is just hell bent on incting violence among its citizens, forgetting "key issues" as you mentioned. If > There is a pretended paternalism in "protecting" > people against > conversion, and that democratic norms should not be > followed in > the "special case" of India - Its a slippery slope > to fascism > friends. WHAT EVER Conversion is not allowed in Isreal, in Saudi Arabia a person can be beheaded. So why should India be an exception. Annie Besant said INDIA IS HINDUISM,HINDUISM IS INDIA. I would add that no power can change that. Hinduism as seen many religions coming and going, a contemporary of Egyptian, Babylonian, Mesopotomian Civilisations. But Hinduism still thrives, it is eternal or Sanathana, It has no begining or end, as broad as Universe itself. Regardless of your view, IT IS INDEED UNIVERSAL. > WHY CAN'T WE REJOICE IN THE LOVE OF OUR > AMMA AND NOT ENTER > THIS RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT - for God is greater than > all our > religions. > > regards Avinash Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./careermakeover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hari OM! OM Amriteswariye Namaha! Dear all, especially shanekeher, When a Hindu says about his religion then, it is religious fundamentalism, what about Islam and Christians they are doing more crime, can you say a word against Islam??? no you cannot, you will be in their hit list, so Hindu religion become a bashing point for all arm chair philosophers, hope you know what is arm chair philosophy. Even Ammachi is a pure Hindu saint, the sign of Hindu saint is He/She accepts all other religions in the world as her own, that is real Hinduism. Please do not get deeply disturbed, become cool and know the fact that there is stil some force which is always protecting Sanathana Dharma, all this deep disturbance is coming from other side, like if you believe in our religion you escape otherwise you are on hell, what a pity. Yes Japa is necessary always, without any fail, that does not mean if somebody is bashing our religion we should keep quiet and become a door mat. So Hindu religion and our own culture will never die. more and more saints and sages and Avtars make that religion one of the best in the world.(it is already one, ignorant people do not understand) and more and more people will realise that only Sanatana Dharma is true. May Amma Bless us all to know ourselves better and better and better. Self Knowledge is the greatest knowledge. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad -- In Ammachi, "shanekeher" <rehek@h...> wrote: > Dear friends > I find some of these messages about conversion deeply disturbing. > Regardless of how mild they APPEAR, they are imbued with a sense of > Fundamentalism, ie: claiming Hinduism is universal, non aggressive > etc, and there are these "other" religions that are aggessive and so > on. Here in Australia there has been a lot of publicity about the > atrocities and violence meted out by Hindu mobs directed at other > religions, in particular muslims. All this "hindu nationalism" seems > contructed to divert people's attention from the real problems at > hand that I've observed in India, eg: massive inequality and > government corruption. Also the caste system allows huge exploitation > of the lower castes. Its much easier to whip up hatred against other > religions than deal with the very real problems right in front of you! > There is a pretended paternalism in "protecting" people against > conversion, and that democratic norms should not be followed in > the "special case" of India - Its a slippery slope to fascism > friends. WHY CAN'T WE REJOICE IN THE LOVE OF OUR AMMA AND NOT ENTER > THIS RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT - for God is greater than all our > religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ammachi, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99> wrote: > I'm genuinely sorry if I've offended people with my comments. My intention was to comment on the "forced conversions" messages, which I felt had a fundamentalistic bent. They were not meant as an attack on Hinduism - I have a Hindu Guru!! I'm disturbed by fundamentalist rhetoric from many sources - the worst being George Bush, closely followed by the Evil Twins.....Ariel Sharon and Osama. > --- shanekeher <rehek@h...> wrote: > > Dear friends > > I find some of these messages about conversion > > deeply disturbing. > > Regardless of how mild they APPEAR, they are imbued > > with a sense of > > Fundamentalism, ie: claiming Hinduism is universal, > > non aggressive > > etc, and there are these "other" religions that are > > aggessive and so > > on. > > dear Shanekeher, > > Hindusim is in fact VERY MUCH Universal. Christianity > and Islam claim they are the only true religions. > While Christianity sticks to the irrational,illogical > rhetoric that "Jesus is the only son of the God" and > Islam adheres to "La Illallah Mahmudur Rasullallah" > whcih means "Allah is the only true God and Mahamud is > his prophet". If Christians keep repeating about their > "only son of god" every time they attend the mass, > Muslims have to remind themselves about their god( who > is only the true one)five times a day. The very > exitence of Christianity and Islam lies in their claim > of exclusive access to the real god. Hinduism never > claims that it is the only ture religion and terms > like > "infidel","pagan","heathen","kafir","crusade","jih-ad" > are not found in its vacobulary. Hinduism's essence is > "Vasudaivika kutumbikam" which means "Whole world is > one family". Now what is so fundamentalism about this? > > > there has been a lot of > > publicity about the > > atrocities and violence meted out by Hindu mobs > > directed at other > > religions, in particular muslims. > > Dude! you need to wake up, please don't be so much > ignorant. I don't want to talk about the plight of > Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh and Kahmiri pundits. > India has a muslim President, Christian Defence > Minister, atleast 4 cricket players in Indian popular > sport Cricket are Muslims, so are the popular > Bollywood stars are muslims. Do you think all this is > possible if there is violence against Muslims. > > You need to get the facts first, Hindu-Muslim clashes > are not new India. They are happening since thousand > years, right from the time of Prithvi Raj Chauhan, > they happend during the times of Shivaji, Maharana > Pratap, during Colonial rule, while partition, after > partition, in 1969, in 1984, in 1990 and in 2002. Mind > you in 2002, nearly 60 Ram devotees where charred to > death by the deeds of muslim mobs, what ever happend > that was reaction. Did you forget that US(population > 300000K) the only super power declared war on > Fallujah (population 200k) and killed nearly 1,000 > people in retaliation for mutilating 4 US contracters. > So why signal out India. > > > > All this "hindu > > nationalism" seems > > contructed to divert people's attention from the > > real problems at > > hand that I've observed in India, eg: massive > > inequality and > > government corruption. > > These things are very much in existence since India > got freedom. So the ruling govt which came into power > in 1999 is not responsible for the prevailing > atmosphere. > > > > Also the caste system allows > > huge exploitation > > of the lower castes. > > OOOOOOOOOOOOH! no not again the 3C'S, the COLONIAL > perspective of India "CASTE,CURRY,COW". C'mon buddy > you need to be atleast little bit creative, this is > 21'st century. Do you think caste system exists only > in Hinduism. Do you know that all Christains in India > retain their caste even after chainging their > religion. For ex. Y.S.Rajashekar Reddy the CM of > Andhra Pradesh is Christian, but still retains his > "Reddy" tag. Reddys are powerful, affluent, upper > caste people from Andhra. All converted Christian > Reddys dont inter marry with Christians hailing form > other communities such as Dalits, Harijans, Girijans. > So is the situation in Kerala, where Syrian Christians > don't inter marry Christians converted form backward > class. Forget about marriage, even burial grounds are > different. > > Now let us come to Islam. To find castism in Islam, > one can find clear in Pakistani Punjabis. Unlike > Indian Muslims, Pakistanis still retain their caste > Identities. Common caste names among Pakistanis are > Gujjar, Chowdry, Rana, Malik, Bhatt, Chauhan, Rathode, > Dhar, etc. While Gujjar and Malik are Jat surnamee, > Rathode, Rana and Chauhan are Rajput surnames,Bhatt > and Dhar are Kasmirir pundit surnames. In Pakistan > Rajputs and Jats never get together. Mind you all > these people are muilms. > > I think I don't need to mention 101 sects in Islam > like Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Salafi, Mahadhavi, Ahmediya, > Bora, Khoja, Sufi etc. By the way couple of days back > there was blast in Shite mosque in Karachi (as usual) > killing 13 people and injuring 100s. > > Moreover in India there is reservation (70% of > positions) for Backward class people science 1947. > Thais is more than 50 years. Ok, if you are from > Forward class and not financially well off, then scope > of getting admission in India is almost nill. It so > happens that most of the times BC's are financially > well sounded but still can get a job or admissions on > the basis of reservations. You should be brought up in > India, to know the suffering and discrimination faced > by FC students throught their life wether in > admissions to school or jobs. IT IS ABSOLUTE REVERSE > DISCRIMINATION. > > > >Its much easier to whip up > > hatred against other > > religions than deal with the very real problems > > right in front of you! > > Curently this is more applicable to Uncle Sam > > As I mentioned earlier, you need to follow current > trends. Communal violence happend in 2002 and long > forgotten. Right now India is in hot discussion for > severel other reasons(not for 3C's though > CASTE,CURRY,COW)BPO, Call Centers, Offshore Out > Sourcing, Health Tourism etc. As I am writting this > mail, Google is setting up its second development > center in Hyderabad, first being in Banglore. > > India economic growth rate is 8.0%, forex reserves > rose to $120 billion dollars for $25 billion in > 1998,India's GDP is half-trillion dollars. Financial > times predicts that India would be third largest > economy by 2014. How do you think all these are > possible? if there is a regressive, fascist government > which is just hell bent on incting violence among its > citizens, forgetting "key issues" as you mentioned. > If > > There is a pretended paternalism in "protecting" > > people against > > conversion, and that democratic norms should not be > > followed in > > the "special case" of India - Its a slippery slope > > to fascism > > friends. > > WHAT EVER > > Conversion is not allowed in Isreal, in Saudi Arabia a > person can be beheaded. So why should India be an > exception. Annie Besant said INDIA IS > HINDUISM,HINDUISM IS INDIA. I would add that no power > can change that. Hinduism as seen many religions > coming and going, a contemporary of Egyptian, > Babylonian, Mesopotomian Civilisations. But Hinduism > still thrives, it is eternal or Sanathana, It has no > begining or end, as broad as Universe itself. > Regardless of your view, IT IS INDEED UNIVERSAL. > > > > WHY CAN'T WE REJOICE IN THE LOVE OF OUR > > AMMA AND NOT ENTER > > THIS RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT - for God is greater than > > all our > > religions. > > > > > > regards > Avinash > > > > > > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./careermakeover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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