amma's interview

[Guest guest]

``Heaven is within us''

 

Kamlendra Kanwar

Mata Amritanandamayi, affectionately called Amma, was born Sudhamani

in an anonymous fishing village in Kerala, in 1953. Though ill-

treated in her own home, her kind heart won her many friends, and

devotees. Their numbers only increased and when Amma turned fifty in

September last year, thousands from across the world congregated in

Kochi, showcasing their solidarity for her cause. Today, the Mata

Amritanandamayi Math, her ashram, has over 300 centres in India, and

more than 25 across the world. The Math's welfare schemes include

building orphanages, women's shelters, hospices, providing education,

setting up environment projects, and rehabilitating prostitutes among

others but the ``hugging saint'' says there's a lot more to be

done. ``My wish is that there should be no huts in India,'' says Amma

of one of her hopes for the future.

 

Amma you give darshan to and shower your love and compassion on

thousands every day, sometimes right through the night without rest.

What gives you this boundless energy? Is it the power of

spirituality?

An ordinary person is like an electric post. A true spiritual person

is a tapasvi who can become like a transformer which can generate

infinite amount of electricity. Whenever I look at the people, and

when I see their sufferings and their pain, I forget myself. I am not

like an ordinary battery that dies away after being used for some

time. I am like a constantly charging battery, connected to the power

source.

 

How can a wandering mind purify his thoughts and inculcate the

necessary attribute of faith in a guru?

 

The first and foremost quality is jigyasa or longing. If one is a

Nobel prize winner and he or she wants to learn to play the flute,

then the person concerned would have to sit at the feet of a flute

master. The person should have the attitude of a beginner. The basic

quality is the awareness of the goal.

 

If we focus on one name, be it Rama or Krishna or some other name or

mantra, we can avoid all unnecessary thoughts. Everything depends on

the intensity of feelings for the goal. When you tame the mind,

immense energy will be generated. It is difficult to gain mastery of

the mind. When we want to gain something or achieve something the

mind gets automatically focused.

 

As normal human beings our awareness level is very low. A regular

routine, a disciplined mind, or a time table is necessary to awaken

that awareness within. Suppose we want to attend an interview at

7 `O' clock we will set an alarm at 4 `O' clock and we wake up. On

normal days we get up only at 8 `O' clock, but on that particular day

we have to be there at 7 `O' clock. The alarm helps us to create that

awareness. Slowly we will be able to gain mastery over the mind. We

need these basic rules and regulations, just like we need a time

table for a child attending primary school.

 

For me there is no creator and creations. Like the ocean and the

waves, they are all one and the same. God is in the people or in the

world, and the world is in the people. It is love that transforms

into worship. Even nature is part of God. That is why we have temples

even for insignificant creatures such as lizards, trees and poisonous

snakes. We have `Mattu Pongal', we worship the sun. We need the ox

for cultivation. It is a form of thanksgiving to the entire creation

as that is the power that sustains life.

 

What is your message to those who indulge in all kinds of

wrongdoings, including corruption and immorality and then practise

bhakthi to cleanse themselves?

 

Such people have intellectual knowledge, but are not focussed in the

heart. They don't have the right understanding, or attitude. Purity

in action is true devotion. If that is not there, it is like keeping

milk in a dirty vessel. The milk will turn rancid.

 

Cleansing must happen in the lowest and highest level. Without proper

discipline, nothing will work in our society. For example, in

Singapore, if you spit or litter they fine you 100 dollars. So people

don't spit or litter. But in our engineering colleges we tried to

advise students about the need to not waste food. There was no

change. Then we slapped a fine on students who waste food. It worked.

Likewise, if they cannot be awakened by themselves, we have to create

awareness through strict rules and discipline.

 

Our understanding of spirituality is all wrong. Only through good

deeds will one get God's grace. People think they can bribe God.

There are three types of people: prakrithi, vikrithi and sanskrithi.

The first — prakrithi — are those who don't care about anybody and

consider others as of no consequence. Whatever they get, they eat it

up. The second type — Vikrithi — eat what they get and also grab from

others. And the third share whatever they have. We have to train the

first category of people to become the third category.

 

Whatever we take from the world, it will diminish as time passes. But

our capacities, which we have within, will not diminish if we have

the right attitude. As far as our ashram is concerned, there is no

support from any community or political party. We have to serve the

society. These children, if they get 5 paise, they return it to

society as 1,000 rupees. If people think on these lines, we can

change the world.

 

Do you believe in karma and rebirth? Can an honest and determined

person change his destiny?

 

Definitely. An honest person who does good with determination can

certainly come out of the cycle of birth and death. But it also

depends on various other aspects like God's grace. Without God's

grace, no action is complete. Even if our actions are correct, it

still can go wrong if others go incorrect. Like what happens in

accidents. True realisation is also needed. Just by reading books,

one will not get knowledge. One must truly experience the truth.

 

Likewise, people should be aware of the nature of work. Like a person

who visits a place where firecrackers are being exploded. If you are

aware, you will not get a shock. Otherwise, you will. Likewise, if

you are aware of the nature of the constantly changing work,

everything becomes a celebration. Life is like a pendulum of a clock.

When it goes to one end, it is not going to stop there. In fact, it

is gathering momentum to go back to the other end.

 

We need to observe certain rules and regulations. We should have that

spiritual element in our life. It is like adding pure water to saline

water. If you keep on adding pure water to saline water, gradually

the saline water gets purified and becomes pure. Likewise, if you

have any shortcomings or negative factors, when you add that

spiritual element, your shortcomings will get cured in due course.

That is why we should have some precautionary measures so that

negativity will not affect us. Yesterday can never become today. You

have to live in the present world so that one can be happy.

 

What do you think of the mixing of politics with religion in our kind

of electoral politics?

 

If the politician understands the real principle of spirituality, it

is good. In olden times, kings were more receptive. Gurus used to

advise them on various matters, including administration, and it

worked. Both religion and politics is necessary for human beings.

They need to be blended properly. If politicians understand the

essential principles of spirituality in a deeper way, it helps. The

essence of religion is spirituality.

 

Both politicians and religious leaders do not understand the real

essence of spirituality. They commit mistakes and support each other.

In the past the kings were wiser. People don't know what politicians

are doing. Where there is true experience, there is no division.

Where there is division, there is no true experience.

 

People who have experienced truth don't have any division.

Unfortunately, people who rule our country don't have any real

experience. Otherwise, they should seek the advice of a true satguru

or a true master. Those who rule should think that they don't need

another term and rule by certain principles. But then, how many

people have that attitude?

 

Where is the country heading? Are the youth on the right track?

 

Most youngsters want to go to the US. I don't blame them. We are not

able to give them jobs according to their education. Thus we lose all

the smart and intelligent people. We must create more opportunities

for them. We need to inculcate spiritual faith in them. Even as young

buds they are being infested by insects. They are the fragrance of

the future. To preserve that future education is very important. We

must create tremendous understanding and awareness among the younger

generation. Otherwise things will become worse. We have declared war

against terrorism. Diseases like AIDS are also like terrorists. We

must find ways to prevent them by creating awareness. We must become

more alert as otherwise our country's future is in danger.

 

Will India and Pakistan ever resolve their differences and learn to

live in harmony in our lifetime?

 

May God help us. We must put in enough effort but the final decision

is in God's hands. If these two countries unite, if they become one

and if they go beyond all differences then this country will become

heaven.

 

You have set up hospitals, colleges, orphanages and environment

projects. What are your goals for the next 10 years?

 

I flow like a river. I do not plan anything. However I would very

much like to do something for the prostitutes and I am very sad at

their plight. I want to do something for waste management, an

effective waste management system particularly in the bus stops and

public toilets and also create awareness about our nature and to

support nature.

 

My wish is that there should be no huts in India. People should have

at least one good meal a day. Not only India, I am also concerned

about countries like Africa. I happened to visit Kenya recently. I am

willing to build houses for the homeless there too. They were going

to offer some money to me. I told them to buy the land, I'll build

the houses.

 

You've done so much for women. You think so deeply for them. What can

we do to make their life better?

 

Men should also think about it properly. When women want to come

forward to do good things, men should make way for them to come

forward. Women are the ones who give birth to men so they must have

more patience. That's the only way to bring proper harmony in

society. When I was a child and some guests came to our house, my

mother would tell me not to come out of the room till they had left.

Women were not allowed to speak loudly, or run. They were told to

walk very gently.

 

By pushing women down in society, and not helping them grow and offer

their talents to society, we have made them bonsai trees. Neither can

birds nestle in their branches nor is the wood of any use. In the

same way women are being seen as objects not as human beings. I am

not a feminist. I am only pointing out the wrong ways in which our

society is functioning.

 

There is a change in women now. However that change hasn't taken

place in men. Men still cling to the old concepts. Men have to wake

up now. In countries like the US, in 1 lakh married couple not even

10 continue to live together. Whereas in our country in thousand

couples only 10 get divorced. But if the situation continues then the

same thing will happen in our country also. If that happens then it

will be like an earthquake.

 

As far as European countries are concerned, it is part of their

culture. They live alone, get married and again live alone. Because

of this reason they are mentally depressed people. The same thing can

happen here also if we are not careful. Because when we look at it in

that light, values are very important.

 

One last word. Are you in communion with God all the time. Is there a

God in heaven or on earth?

 

For me all humans are Gods and God is everywhere. Both up in the

clouds and on earth. But there is no God sitting up above on a golden

throne. He resides in everything. I see God even in a small ant. And

heaven is within us.