Non-dualism ,easy enlightenment You guys are really missing my point!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Devotees!

 

When I speak about "purported non-dualists", I am most certainly NOT

speaking about Ramana Maharshi or other true masters. I myself

absolutely love this path. One of my favorite scriptures is Tripura

Rahasya, a classic of non-dualism, which I highly recommend.

 

What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare that

one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo non-

dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened and It

is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an ABUNDANCE

of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all types

of manipulation and mind control. Have you ever heard of Rama, a so

called non-dualist who had his devotees give him a portion of their

pay checks and slept with many of his female devotees? All under the

guise of Non-dualism. Easy enlightenment. Even Amma calls this phony

parrot like Vedatins philosophers "hypocrites." When we are under the

sway of our Vasanas and then declare to our friends "I am

enlightened" really this is silly. Yet this is a VERY POPULAR

PRACTICE in the spiritual community. Amma said that you can count the

number of realized souls on your fingers...THAT IS NOT VERY MANY.

 

There is a web site called Sarlos guru ratings, Mr. Sarlo is a non-

dualist of the new american type of non-dualist. Ammachi and Shirdi

Sai Baba get 2.5 out of five points, while Rajanessh, the famous do

want you want non-dualist gets five out of five, the highest rating.

Does that make sense to you? The non-dualists who chat on this

website all consider themselves to be enlightened. In fact one of

them posted to me that "all is one" therefore getting a hug from the

blockbuster video clerk is the same as getting a hug from Ammachi.

 

They do not like gurus who they consider to be "authoritarian". They

prefer a do what you like whenever you want, act natural approach to

life. There is a non-dualist tantra sex sharing and dating web site.

 

This is a REAL pitfall for new, young and impressionable spiritually

inclined people. My experience in life has taught me that until make

efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-stealing,

honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin to

feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

 

I consider myself to be a non-dualist, but a non-dualist with just a

bit of discrimination. When I even watch any of the beautiful videos

of Ramana Maharshi...I begin to feel like I swimming in his

enlightened state..I just notice that I personally do not maintain

that state 24 -7.!!

 

Anyway ...LOVE AND ENLIGHTENMENT TO ALL...

 

Chris

[Guest guest]

-

ckeniley2003

Ammachi

Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:36 PM

Non-dualism ,easy enlightenment You guys are really missing

my point!

 

Namaste Chris and Others,

 

I am trying hard to hear you with an open mind and heart, but some of the

global comments are making me uncomfortable. I appreciate the validity of

several of your issues - false masters/gurus would indeed present a huge problem

for those who have followed in good faith, for example - and I always value

other viewpoints against which I can challenge the validity of my own beliefs.

Thanks for your effort to clarify.

 

From the heart,

Snehalata

 

 

Namaste Devotees!

 

When I speak about "purported non-dualists", I am most certainly NOT

speaking about Ramana Maharshi or other true masters. I myself

absolutely love this path. One of my favorite scriptures is Tripura

Rahasya, a classic of non-dualism, which I highly recommend.

 

What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare that

one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo non-

dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened and It

is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an ABUNDANCE

of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all types

of manipulation and mind control. Have you ever heard of Rama, a so

called non-dualist who had his devotees give him a portion of their

pay checks and slept with many of his female devotees? All under the

guise of Non-dualism. Easy enlightenment. Even Amma calls this phony

parrot like Vedatins philosophers "hypocrites." When we are under the

sway of our Vasanas and then declare to our friends "I am

enlightened" really this is silly. Yet this is a VERY POPULAR

PRACTICE in the spiritual community. Amma said that you can count the

number of realized souls on your fingers...THAT IS NOT VERY MANY.

 

There is a web site called Sarlos guru ratings, Mr. Sarlo is a non-

dualist of the new american type of non-dualist. Ammachi and Shirdi

Sai Baba get 2.5 out of five points, while Rajanessh, the famous do

want you want non-dualist gets five out of five, the highest rating.

Does that make sense to you? The non-dualists who chat on this

website all consider themselves to be enlightened. In fact one of

them posted to me that "all is one" therefore getting a hug from the

blockbuster video clerk is the same as getting a hug from Ammachi.

 

They do not like gurus who they consider to be "authoritarian". They

prefer a do what you like whenever you want, act natural approach to

life. There is a non-dualist tantra sex sharing and dating web site.

 

This is a REAL pitfall for new, young and impressionable spiritually

inclined people. My experience in life has taught me that until make

efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-stealing,

honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin to

feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

 

I consider myself to be a non-dualist, but a non-dualist with just a

bit of discrimination. When I even watch any of the beautiful videos

of Ramana Maharshi...I begin to feel like I swimming in his

enlightened state..I just notice that I personally do not maintain

that state 24 -7.!!

 

Anyway ...LOVE AND ENLIGHTENMENT TO ALL...

 

Chris

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

 

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

Ammachi

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namah Sivaya,

 

I struggled against such tendencies for nearly a decade and can attest that this

is a very detrimental mindset to have. I found that because the tapas of sadhana

was sooo difficult, I turned to pseudo-Advaitic "teachings" that promoted this

perspective as an excuse to abandon my spiritual practice! The only way I could

be free of the guilt and self-consciousness associated with indulging in my

vasanas was by aligning myself with the belief that sadhana was not necessary. I

never thought that I was enlightened, but felt that "if God wanted this

body-mind to be more loving/kind, He would have created it with those qualities,

etc. (!!!)". I alternated between bhoga-tyaga (indulgence and renunciation) for

eighteen years, largely due to this ego-fabricated philosophy. This created a

huge gulf between myself and Amma, and if it were not for Her infinite patience

and compassion, I would have remained stuck in that belief system for lifetimes!

 

At Amma's lotus feet,

 

Kirsten

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003> wrote:

....

> What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare that

> one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo non-

> dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened and

 

I wouldn't call them pseudo-nondualists, any more than I would

call a bhakta (devotee) pseudo because he says that all happens

according to the good God's will and grace, even when he acts with

guilt, regret, fear or anger.

....

> It

> is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

> enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an ABUNDANCE

> of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

> tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all types

> of manipulation and mind control.

 

Again, this is not confined to non-dualists. Look at all the

'cults', TV preachers etc.

 

....

 

> My experience in life has taught me that until make

> efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

> suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-stealing,

> honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

> lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin to

> feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

>

> Chris

 

There are many who claim to have felt the grace of Rajneesh --

who are we to say what the only true path is?

 

The label of hypocrisy is applied disproportionately often

to non-dualists among Amma's children.

 

Vallath Nandakumar

[Guest guest]

Hari OM! OM Amriteswariye Namaha!

 

Blessed Ones,

 

Before critizing any of the philosophy or any of the system, we

should know about that system perfectly! otherwise criticism will be

a blind criticism.

 

If We are saying that Advaita, (non-dualist) are pseudo after

studying the Prasthanna traya, like Srimad Bhagwad Geetha, Upanishads

and Brahmasutra under a qualified teacher,then it is a different

matter,(because then we will not just hit in the dark!) otherwise

please keep our ignorance inside, do not even give suggestions about

it.

 

Because it is as simple as we are not qualified for that.

 

There are always pseudo people in this world, we cannot generalize

that all the Swamis and non-dualists are like that, Even for Bhagwan

Sri Krishna, there was one pseudo, do you know who it is he is

Poundraka.. So, never do only arguments and criticism without

properly studying, if we really learn things, then all our doubts and

arguments go away.

 

To get the qualifications like "niyamas" or habits of disciplne non-

stealing, honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a

satvic lifestyle, only devotion alone will not help, because we are

ignorant, so we need to study, we need to do Sadhana, and we need to

discuss the spiritual text under the guidance of a GURU Like Amma.

 

Bhakthi and Jnana Both are required for the removal of our ignorance.

Even if you do Yama, Niyama, Patanjali and all that, only by the

Grace you get the qualification to have Self Knowledge.

 

And another thing, please do not compare ourselves with AMMA. Please

Please Please, everybody cannot like become Amma. She is GOD

incarnate Parasakthi.(eventhough everybody already is in their real

form! but ignorant of it)

 

Hope this kind of unnecessary arguments are avoided, for our progress.

 

With Love & OM!

 

OM Amriteswariye Namaha!

OM Nama Shivaya!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003>

wrote:

> ...

> > What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare

that

> > one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo

non-

> > dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened

and

>

> I wouldn't call them pseudo-nondualists, any more than I would

> call a bhakta (devotee) pseudo because he says that all happens

> according to the good God's will and grace, even when he acts with

> guilt, regret, fear or anger.

> ...

> > It

> > is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

> > enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an

ABUNDANCE

> > of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

> > tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all

types

> > of manipulation and mind control.

>

> Again, this is not confined to non-dualists. Look at all the

> 'cults', TV preachers etc.

>

> ...

>

> > My experience in life has taught me that until make

> > efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

> > suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-

stealing,

> > honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

> > lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin

to

> > feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

> >

> > Chris

>

> There are many who claim to have felt the grace of Rajneesh --

> who are we to say what the only true path is?

>

> The label of hypocrisy is applied disproportionately often

> to non-dualists among Amma's children.

>

> Vallath Nandakumar

[Guest guest]

-

Krishna Prasad

Ammachi

Friday, December 12, 2003 4:00 PM

Re: Non-dualism ,easy enlightenment You guys are really

missing my point!

 

Krishna,

 

SO beautifully said. I had been tempted to respond once more and had already

decided to let Mother answer the questions for me when She is ready to do so - I

accept you suggestion and am bowing out of further comments on this thread.

 

I also really appreciated your reminder that Amma is, literally, God

incarnate. When I stop and give that fact serious consideration, the whole of

our Divine Mother quite literally brings me to my knees.

 

Namaste,

Snehalata

 

PS Thank you all so much; the continued love and

support here is a life line that I value dearly.

 

 

Hari OM! OM Amriteswariye Namaha!

 

Blessed Ones,

 

Before critizing any of the philosophy or any of the system, we

should know about that system perfectly! otherwise criticism will be

a blind criticism.

 

If We are saying that Advaita, (non-dualist) are pseudo after

studying the Prasthanna traya, like Srimad Bhagwad Geetha, Upanishads

and Brahmasutra under a qualified teacher,then it is a different

matter,(because then we will not just hit in the dark!) otherwise

please keep our ignorance inside, do not even give suggestions about

it.

 

Because it is as simple as we are not qualified for that.

 

There are always pseudo people in this world, we cannot generalize

that all the Swamis and non-dualists are like that, Even for Bhagwan

Sri Krishna, there was one pseudo, do you know who it is he is

Poundraka.. So, never do only arguments and criticism without

properly studying, if we really learn things, then all our doubts and

arguments go away.

 

To get the qualifications like "niyamas" or habits of disciplne non-

stealing, honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a

satvic lifestyle, only devotion alone will not help, because we are

ignorant, so we need to study, we need to do Sadhana, and we need to

discuss the spiritual text under the guidance of a GURU Like Amma.

 

Bhakthi and Jnana Both are required for the removal of our ignorance.

Even if you do Yama, Niyama, Patanjali and all that, only by the

Grace you get the qualification to have Self Knowledge.

 

And another thing, please do not compare ourselves with AMMA. Please

Please Please, everybody cannot like become Amma. She is GOD

incarnate Parasakthi.(eventhough everybody already is in their real

form! but ignorant of it)

 

Hope this kind of unnecessary arguments are avoided, for our progress.

 

With Love & OM!

 

OM Amriteswariye Namaha!

OM Nama Shivaya!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote:

> Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003>

wrote:

> ...

> > What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare

that

> > one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo

non-

> > dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened

and

>

> I wouldn't call them pseudo-nondualists, any more than I would

> call a bhakta (devotee) pseudo because he says that all happens

> according to the good God's will and grace, even when he acts with

> guilt, regret, fear or anger.

> ...

> > It

> > is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

> > enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an

ABUNDANCE

> > of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

> > tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all

types

> > of manipulation and mind control.

>

> Again, this is not confined to non-dualists. Look at all the

> 'cults', TV preachers etc.

>

> ...

>

> > My experience in life has taught me that until make

> > efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

> > suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-

stealing,

> > honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

> > lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin

to

> > feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

> >

> > Chris

>

> There are many who claim to have felt the grace of Rajneesh --

> who are we to say what the only true path is?

>

> The label of hypocrisy is applied disproportionately often

> to non-dualists among Amma's children.

>

> Vallath Nandakumar

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

 

Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

Ammachi

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

 

I sincerely apologize if my recent post in this thread contained wording that

was considered offensive. I meant no criticism of others, only of my own ego. I

should have clarified that the pseudo-Advaitic philosophy I was referring to was

entirely based upon my own manufactured ideas and not that of a particular

teacher. Please forgive me for any harm caused by my statements.

 

Thank you, Krishna Prasad, for bringing this to my attention and for the

wonderful reminder of our need to find a balance between jnana and bhakti.

 

Your fallen servant,

 

Kirsten

 

 

[Guest guest]

OM!

 

Dear Chris,

 

I read your post with great interest. I struggled for many years with

the paradox of Advaitic teachings. So many masters say that you are

That right now, that if you could attain to anything you are not

right now, it is worthless. Yet, when I would accept that I am That

life could still be very miserable. Later I began to see what was

going on. Poonjaji was one that would tell you that you are That now,

that you do not even need to meditate. His statement was kind of a

trick (emphasis on "kind"). I feel that his uncle, Swami Rama Tirtha,

was less "tricky". Rama Tirtha taught that the Self is the EASIEST

thing to Realize because IT IS ALWAYS REALIZED. The problem is, he

said, was to get rid of those things that cause us suffering. That is

the hard part. It is like this: someone once asked Swami Muktananda

that if everything is God, could he not do anything he wanted?

Muktananda replied that he could, but that he would have to take the

consequences, the results, of all that he did as God too. Upasani

Baba Maharaj said that one could attain God by doing all those things

that bring suffering to you, BUT ONLY IF YOU DO NOT IN THE LEAST

RESIST THAT SUFFERING, THAT IF A SIMPLE 'O GOD' SLIPPED OUT OF YOUR

MOUTH JUST ONCE, ALL THE YEARS OF THIS SADHANA WOULD BE LOST. Many of

the Neoadvaitins are in for a sorry surprise. Perhaps they have found

Gurus they deserve. A Neoadvaitin might say, "Oh, boy, all happens by

the Will of God. Now I don't have to brush my teeth anymore!" Years

later when his teeth are all rotten and causing him great pain, his

Guru will simply tell him, that that too is the Will of God! But I'm

sure that the Neoadvaitin Gurus serve a good purpose: at least they

get people started on the Path to Realization, people who never would

have gotten on it for a long time.

 

Om Sai!

 

Umesh

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "ckeniley2003" <ckeniley2003>

wrote:

> Namaste Devotees!

>

> When I speak about "purported non-dualists", I am most certainly

NOT

> speaking about Ramana Maharshi or other true masters. I myself

> absolutely love this path. One of my favorite scriptures is Tripura

> Rahasya, a classic of non-dualism, which I highly recommend.

>

> What I am talking about: Using non-dualism as a means to declare

that

> one is enlightened WHEN THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE NOT. The psuedo

non-

> dualist go about saying all is Brahman, we are all enlightened and

It

> is all a matter of your thinking...if you think you are

> enlightened...you are. This philosophy is the basis for an

ABUNDANCE

> of charlatans who run weekend workshops that run the gammat from

> tantra group sex to six thousand dollars for a mantra, to all types

> of manipulation and mind control. Have you ever heard of Rama, a so

> called non-dualist who had his devotees give him a portion of their

> pay checks and slept with many of his female devotees? All under

the

> guise of Non-dualism. Easy enlightenment. Even Amma calls this

phony

> parrot like Vedatins philosophers "hypocrites." When we are under

the

> sway of our Vasanas and then declare to our friends "I am

> enlightened" really this is silly. Yet this is a VERY POPULAR

> PRACTICE in the spiritual community. Amma said that you can count

the

> number of realized souls on your fingers...THAT IS NOT VERY MANY.

>

> There is a web site called Sarlos guru ratings, Mr. Sarlo is a non-

> dualist of the new american type of non-dualist. Ammachi and Shirdi

> Sai Baba get 2.5 out of five points, while Rajanessh, the famous do

> want you want non-dualist gets five out of five, the highest

rating.

> Does that make sense to you? The non-dualists who chat on this

> website all consider themselves to be enlightened. In fact one of

> them posted to me that "all is one" therefore getting a hug from

the

> blockbuster video clerk is the same as getting a hug from Ammachi.

>

> They do not like gurus who they consider to be "authoritarian".

They

> prefer a do what you like whenever you want, act natural approach

to

> life. There is a non-dualist tantra sex sharing and dating web

site.

>

> This is a REAL pitfall for new, young and impressionable

spiritually

> inclined people. My experience in life has taught me that until

make

> efforts towards your sadhana..or as Patanjali and all the masters

> suggest: adopting the "niyamas" or habits of disciplne: non-

stealing,

> honesty, cheerfulness etc. and become oriented towards a satvic

> lifestyle...you will not experience spiritual progress or begin to

> feel the grace that a master like Amma can bestow.

>

> I consider myself to be a non-dualist, but a non-dualist with just

a

> bit of discrimination. When I even watch any of the beautiful

videos

> of Ramana Maharshi...I begin to feel like I swimming in his

> enlightened state..I just notice that I personally do not maintain

> that state 24 -7.!!

>

> Anyway ...LOVE AND ENLIGHTENMENT TO ALL...

>

> Chris