Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! I am wondering what Mother says about how to deal with conflicts of interest in relationships with others. Does Amma say that it is okay to assert one's needs, or if it is always best to be acquiescent in situations where another person's desires/needs oppose one's own? (for example: Your roommates stay up talking with the lights on late into the evening after "lights out" even after you ask them in a loving manner not to do so. How to handle this sort of scenario in a manner pleasing to Amma?) I lack self-assertion with regard to stating my needs and shy away from conflict. Thus, I tend to have a hard time knowing when I should speak up and when I should surrender and remain silent. Perhaps if after stating my needs the situation remains the same, I should take it as Amma's will that I am to remain deferential and yielding? Gratefully, Kirsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hello Kirsten. Namah Shivaya. This is a wonderful topic. Especially because it involves applying our spirituality into everyday life situations. I often encounter these situations, and my responses have not been consistent, to say the least. My behavior in these situations has been 'a forced one' more than not. The only answer I can think of (and there might be better ones) is this - respond to the situation. Assert your wish (that's your duty), but do not be miserable if the opposite party is not receptive to the idea.... find ways and means to make your life easier if not receptive. I wanted to add an interesting aside: this kind of 'forced' behavior can often be seen amongst devotess too! Especially when everyone is trying to look and act humble when we can clearly see it is a put-on act! This is not to criticize the devotees (where I am most definitely included), but it is said in a rather light-hearted, and compassionate tone. The reality is that we are all not 'perfect', but striving hard to be so, and hence the appearance of 'imperfection' in our everyday life is inevitable. Sometimes you hear non-devotee friends and relatives crib, "If you claim to be such a big devotee of Amma (the claim is all theirs, not ours, and is mentioned to give the verbal equivalent of a punch in the solar plexus), then how come you behave so badly? We expect more noble-mindedness from you!". The implicit assumption (that everyone unerringly gets) is that Amma cannot be that great a saint if the devotees are psychos like me! They usually have a right to crib because I may have been usually obnoxious, but how they blame Amma for my attitude is not at all good! Jai Ma! Ammachi, <khd5@c...> wrote: > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > I am wondering what Mother says about how to deal with conflicts of interest in relationships with others. Does Amma say that it is okay to assert one's needs, or if it is always best to be acquiescent in situations where another person's desires/needs oppose one's own? (for example: Your roommates stay up talking with the lights on late into the evening after "lights out" even after you ask them in a loving manner not to do so. How to handle this sort of scenario in a manner pleasing to Amma?) > > I lack self-assertion with regard to stating my needs and shy away from conflict. Thus, I tend to have a hard time knowing when I should speak up and when I should surrender and remain silent. Perhaps if after stating my needs the situation remains the same, I should take it as Amma's will that I am to remain deferential and yielding? > > Gratefully, > > Kirsten > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Hi Kirsten, First, I'd like to state out front that I am NOT speaking from a learned or well-read perspective on Amma's teachings, but from my own life, research, reading, satsang, sadhna, etc. >From my perspective, action is not necessarily as important as your INTENT behind the action. If you ask your roommates to keep quiet because you have to get to work early the next day, your intent is different than if you are asking them out of spite. If it is someone uses a knife to perform a life-saving surgery, the intent is very different from a person using a knife for murder! This is an extreme example, but I think it makes my point. So, I try to approach each situation that I come across with the proper intent, even if my action could come across to some as less than noble or compassionate. My grandmother used to say that the path to hell is paved with good intentions, which shows another point. If we have good intent and NO action, then this is worse than having the supposed "right" action. Adhering to the concept of ahisma and trying to live compassionately doesn't necessarily mean that we should be doormats and let others walk all over us! I'm sure that Amma would not be pleased if one of her children stuck in an abusive relationship or the like. I think Amma wants us all to understand that we should accept where we are today, continue to live our lives as householders, and try to take steps towards progress. If we were all perfect, none of us would be here. I think Manoj is right; we should definitely take each situation as it comes. Try to asses the situation as best you can, THINK about your intent, and act upon it (or take no action, depending... ). All this coming from a girl who just sent an email to someone in her office, citing six sources to "prove her point" about a silly silly argument. Ahh, the ego! With love, At Amma's Lotus Feet, Niseema Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <manoj_menon> wrote: > Hello Kirsten. > > Namah Shivaya. > > This is a wonderful topic. Especially because it involves applying > our spirituality into everyday life situations. > > I often encounter these situations, and my responses have not been > consistent, to say the least. My behavior in these situations has > been 'a forced one' more than not. > > The only answer I can think of (and there might be better ones) is > this - respond to the situation. Assert your wish (that's your duty), > but do not be miserable if the opposite party is not receptive to the > idea.... find ways and means to make your life easier if not > receptive. > > I wanted to add an interesting aside: this kind of 'forced' behavior > can often be seen amongst devotess too! Especially when everyone is > trying to look and act humble when we can clearly see it is a put- on > act! > > This is not to criticize the devotees (where I am most definitely > included), but it is said in a rather light-hearted, and > compassionate tone. The reality is that we are all not 'perfect', but > striving hard to be so, and hence the appearance of 'imperfection' in > our everyday life is inevitable. > > Sometimes you hear non-devotee friends and relatives crib, "If you > claim to be such a big devotee of Amma (the claim is all theirs, not > ours, and is mentioned to give the verbal equivalent of a punch in > the solar plexus), then how come you behave so badly? We expect more > noble-mindedness from you!". The implicit assumption (that everyone > unerringly gets) is that Amma cannot be that great a saint if the > devotees are psychos like me! > > They usually have a right to crib because I may have been usually > obnoxious, but how they blame Amma for my attitude is not at all good! > > Jai Ma! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Hello all, I enjoyed Niseema's post, and it brought up something that Amma said at the MI retreat that struck me deeply. When the young woman asked the question about the meaness of the children at the facility where she worked, and how to deal with it, Amma ended her remarks by talking about how we as humans can't tell the difference between white sand and sugar, but an ant has no difficulty doing so. Then she said, "Don't mix logic and devotion; it won't work." What I took from this was that one still has to use logic in situations where there is clash. I often have the problem of trying in a nice way to enforce the rules. I work in a busy public library which offers 25 free internet stations and is located in the middle of the downtown transit center (8 bus bays), the swimming pool, the teen center, the baseball field, a large shopping complex, a perfoming arts center, and a skateboard park. Talk about a mix of people! The unruly teenagers are the worst problem for me presently, as a group of them have taken to throwing spitballs, pencils, whatever at a homeless woman who uses our library. She's not entirely all there mentally, so it makes it harder to try to protect her than it would be otherwise. (She doesn't report the abuse in a timely way, only when she goes stomping out.) And we librarians are often busy answering reference questions or dealing with recalcitrant printers or computers, etc. so on it goes. Anyway, what I understood from the "don't mix logic and devotion" comment was that sometimes I just have to be tough. Not everybody responds to the nice approach. The one thing I try to do is not let one day's bad experiences carry over to the next day. I try to start each day's interaction with a smile and innocence, even though I know I must be watchful. I don't know if this helps or not, but it made me feel better:)! Love, Jyotsna --- Erica <sugarandbrine wrote: > Hi Kirsten, > > First, I'd like to state out front that I am NOT > speaking from a > learned or well-read perspective on Amma's > teachings, but from my own > life, research, reading, satsang, sadhna, etc. > > From my perspective, action is not necessarily as > important as your > INTENT behind the action. If you ask your roommates > to keep quiet > because you have to get to work early the next day, > your intent is > different than if you are asking them out of spite. > If it is someone > uses a knife to perform a life-saving surgery, the > intent is very > different from a person using a knife for murder! > This is an extreme > example, but I think it makes my point. > > So, I try to approach each situation that I come > across with the > proper intent, even if my action could come across > to some as less > than noble or compassionate. > > My grandmother used to say that the path to hell is > paved with good > intentions, which shows another point. If we have > good intent and NO > action, then this is worse than having the supposed > "right" action. > > Adhering to the concept of ahisma and trying to live > compassionately > doesn't necessarily mean that we should be doormats > and let others > walk all over us! I'm sure that Amma would not be > pleased if one of > her children stuck in an abusive relationship or the > like. I think > Amma wants us all to understand that we should > accept where we are > today, continue to live our lives as householders, > and try to take > steps towards progress. If we were all perfect, none > of us would be > here. > > I think Manoj is right; we should definitely take > each situation as > it comes. Try to asses the situation as best you > can, THINK about > your intent, and act upon it (or take no action, > depending... ). > > All this coming from a girl who just sent an email > to someone in her > office, citing six sources to "prove her point" > about a silly silly > argument. Ahh, the ego! > > With love, > At Amma's Lotus Feet, > Niseema > > Ammachi, "manoj_menon" > <manoj_menon> > wrote: > > Hello Kirsten. > > > > Namah Shivaya. > > > > This is a wonderful topic. Especially because it > involves applying > > our spirituality into everyday life situations. > > > > I often encounter these situations, and my > responses have not been > > consistent, to say the least. My behavior in these > situations has > > been 'a forced one' more than not. > > > > The only answer I can think of (and there might be > better ones) is > > this - respond to the situation. Assert your wish > (that's your > duty), > > but do not be miserable if the opposite party is > not receptive to > the > > idea.... find ways and means to make your life > easier if not > > receptive. > > > > I wanted to add an interesting aside: this kind of > 'forced' > behavior > > can often be seen amongst devotess too! Especially > when everyone is > > trying to look and act humble when we can clearly > see it is a put- > on > > act! > > > > This is not to criticize the devotees (where I am > most definitely > > included), but it is said in a rather > light-hearted, and > > compassionate tone. The reality is that we are all > not 'perfect', > but > > striving hard to be so, and hence the appearance > of 'imperfection' > in > > our everyday life is inevitable. > > > > Sometimes you hear non-devotee friends and > relatives crib, "If you > > claim to be such a big devotee of Amma (the claim > is all theirs, > not > > ours, and is mentioned to give the verbal > equivalent of a punch in > > the solar plexus), then how come you behave so > badly? We expect > more > > noble-mindedness from you!". The implicit > assumption (that everyone > > unerringly gets) is that Amma cannot be that great > a saint if the > > devotees are psychos like me! > > > > They usually have a right to crib because I may > have been usually > > obnoxious, but how they blame Amma for my attitude > is not at all > good! > > > > Jai Ma! > > > > New Photos - easier uploading and sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Niseema and Manoj, your posts were most helpful and clarifying for me. I appreciate your responses and am so grateful you felt moved to respond! Jyotsna - Thank you so much for sharing Amma's teaching and your experiences related to this issue! When I was at Amritapuri in '99, these types of situations arose quite frequently and I was confused about how best to handle them. Your feedback has helped me to feel more 'prepared' for my upcoming pilgrimage and has eased a lot of the anxiety I've had regarding asserting my needs. With immense gratitude in Amma, Kirsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Yes, sometimes one has to be tough.... Remember "Tough Love" from the 80s? If someone is doing something wrong, to us or to anyone, we have to speak up and even be tough sometimes. If you are strict with someone out of love, that is probably fine. If you are strict out of power, disdain, feeling superior, that is probably bad for you. I have to shoo young adults without ID out of my liquor store often, and sometimes I have to be VERY tough. They try to fight me sometimes... "But I'm not buying anything, my friend is" or "But I'm just buying a coke". Sometimes I'm alone and it's a guy and I have to BE REALLY ASSERTIVE. I never feel like, "Oh, I should've been nicer" because I'm doing what's needed for the situation. AAaarrgghhh... Gabriela --- "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2 wrote: > Hello all, > > I enjoyed Niseema's post, and it brought up > something > that Amma said at the MI retreat that struck me > deeply. When the young woman asked the question > about the meaness of the children at the facility > where she worked, and how to deal with it, Amma > ended her remarks by talking about how we as humans > can't tell the difference between white sand and > sugar, but an ant has no difficulty doing so. Then > she said, "Don't mix logic and devotion; it won't > work." What I took from this was that one still > has to use logic in situations where there is clash. > > I often have the problem of trying in a nice way to > enforce the rules. I work in a busy public library > which offers 25 free internet stations and is > located > in the middle of the downtown transit center (8 bus > bays), the swimming pool, the > teen center, the baseball field, a large shopping > complex, a perfoming arts center, and a skateboard > park. Talk about a mix of people! The unruly > teenagers are the worst problem for me presently, > as a group of them have taken to throwing > spitballs, pencils, whatever at a homeless woman > who uses our library. She's not entirely all there > mentally, so it makes it harder to try to protect > her than it would be otherwise. (She doesn't > report the abuse in a timely way, only when she > goes stomping out.) And we librarians are often > busy answering reference questions or dealing with > recalcitrant printers or computers, etc. so on it > goes. > > Anyway, what I understood from the "don't mix logic > and devotion" comment was that sometimes I just have > to be tough. Not everybody responds to the nice > approach. The one thing I try to do is not let > one day's bad experiences carry over to the next > day. I try to start each day's interaction with > a smile and innocence, even though I know I must be > watchful. > > I don't know if this helps or not, but it made me > feel better:)! > > Love, > Jyotsna > > --- Erica <sugarandbrine wrote: > > Hi Kirsten, > > > > First, I'd like to state out front that I am NOT > > speaking from a > > learned or well-read perspective on Amma's > > teachings, but from my own > > life, research, reading, satsang, sadhna, etc. > > > > From my perspective, action is not necessarily as > > important as your > > INTENT behind the action. If you ask your > roommates > > to keep quiet > > because you have to get to work early the next > day, > > your intent is > > different than if you are asking them out of > spite. > > If it is someone > > uses a knife to perform a life-saving surgery, the > > intent is very > > different from a person using a knife for murder! > > This is an extreme > > example, but I think it makes my point. > > > > So, I try to approach each situation that I come > > across with the > > proper intent, even if my action could come across > > to some as less > > than noble or compassionate. > > > > My grandmother used to say that the path to hell > is > > paved with good > > intentions, which shows another point. If we have > > good intent and NO > > action, then this is worse than having the > supposed > > "right" action. > > > > Adhering to the concept of ahisma and trying to > live > > compassionately > > doesn't necessarily mean that we should be > doormats > > and let others > > walk all over us! I'm sure that Amma would not be > > pleased if one of > > her children stuck in an abusive relationship or > the > > like. I think > > Amma wants us all to understand that we should > > accept where we are > > today, continue to live our lives as householders, > > and try to take > > steps towards progress. If we were all perfect, > none > > of us would be > > here. > > > > I think Manoj is right; we should definitely take > > each situation as > > it comes. Try to asses the situation as best you > > can, THINK about > > your intent, and act upon it (or take no action, > > depending... ). > > > > All this coming from a girl who just sent an email > > to someone in her > > office, citing six sources to "prove her point" > > about a silly silly > > argument. Ahh, the ego! > > > > With love, > > At Amma's Lotus Feet, > > Niseema > > > > Ammachi, "manoj_menon" > > <manoj_menon> > > wrote: > > > Hello Kirsten. > > > > > > Namah Shivaya. > > > > > > This is a wonderful topic. Especially because it > > involves applying > > > our spirituality into everyday life situations. > > > > > > I often encounter these situations, and my > > responses have not been > > > consistent, to say the least. My behavior in > these > > situations has > > > been 'a forced one' more than not. > > > > > > The only answer I can think of (and there might > be > > better ones) is > > > this - respond to the situation. Assert your > wish > > (that's your > > duty), > > > but do not be miserable if the opposite party is > > not receptive to > > the > > > idea.... find ways and means to make your life > > easier if not > > > receptive. > > > > > > I wanted to add an interesting aside: this kind > of > > 'forced' > > behavior > > > can often be seen amongst devotess too! > Especially > > when everyone is > > > trying to look and act humble when we can > clearly > > see it is a put- > > on > > > act! > > > > > > This is not to criticize the devotees (where I > am > > most definitely > > > included), but it is said in a rather > > light-hearted, and > > > compassionate tone. The reality is that we are > all > > not 'perfect', > > but > > > striving hard to be so, and hence the appearance > > of 'imperfection' > > in > > > our everyday life is inevitable. > > > > > > Sometimes you hear non-devotee friends and > > relatives crib, "If you > > > claim to be such a big devotee of Amma (the > claim > > is all theirs, > > not > > > ours, and is mentioned to give the verbal > > equivalent of a punch in > > > the solar plexus), then how come you behave so > > badly? We expect > > more > > > noble-mindedness from you!". The implicit > > assumption (that everyone > === message truncated === Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 A priest I knew a long time ago had a saying: There are two types of sins: hurting others, and allowing yourself to be hurt. Jai Ma! Gabriela --- khd5 wrote: > Niseema and Manoj, your posts were most helpful and > clarifying for me. I appreciate your responses and > am so grateful you felt moved to respond! Jyotsna - > Thank you so much for sharing Amma's teaching and > your experiences related to this issue! When I was > at Amritapuri in '99, these types of situations > arose quite frequently and I was confused about how > best to handle them. Your feedback has helped me to > feel more 'prepared' for my upcoming pilgrimage and > has eased a lot of the anxiety I've had regarding > asserting my needs. > > With immense gratitude in Amma, > > Kirsten > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Kristin, Such a good topic! Here is an Amma quote (I love this one!) that I think pertains to your issue. " One should contemplate and pray in this manner: "My goal is far beyond all these silly and trivial worldly problems. O Lord, please do not push me into these conflicts and arguements. Give me the strength and courage to be in the midst of these problems and still remember You and remain detached. Let me try to work through them as part of my duty, but let me be untouched by their virbrations'". Amma One could have this as the focus of their entire sadhana, don't you think? Jai Ma! Omana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Thank you. This is *exactly* what I needed to hear this week. Namah sivaya, Iswari Ammachi, "Omana" <eveningstar8@h...> wrote: > " One should contemplate and pray in this manner: "My goal is far > beyond all these silly and trivial worldly problems. O Lord, please > do not push me into these conflicts and arguements. Give me the > strength and courage to be in the midst of these problems and still > remember You and remain detached. Let me try to work through them as > part of my duty, but let me be untouched by their virbrations'". Amma > > One could have this as the focus of their entire sadhana, don't you > think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Wow - Thank you so much for this quote Omana!! It definitely seems to be applicable to this issue and to sadhana in general, as you mentioned, and is just what I needed to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Wow! What a great quote for me! I'll remember this when the hooligans are trying to take over! Jyotsna --- Omana <eveningstar8 wrote: > Kristin, > Such a good topic! Here is an Amma quote (I love > this one!) that I > think pertains to your issue. > > " One should contemplate and pray in this manner: > "My goal is far > beyond all these silly and trivial worldly problems. > O Lord, please > do not push me into these conflicts and arguements. > Give me the > strength and courage to be in the midst of these > problems and still > remember You and remain detached. Let me try to work > through them as > part of my duty, but let me be untouched by their > virbrations'". Amma > > One could have this as the focus of their entire > sadhana, don't you > think? > > Jai Ma! > Omana > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I second that motion.... this is very refreshing...thank you!! ammasiswari <iswari wrote:Thank you. This is *exactly* what I needed to hear this week. Namah sivaya, Iswari Ammachi, "Omana" <eveningstar8@h...> wrote: > " One should contemplate and pray in this manner: "My goal is far > beyond all these silly and trivial worldly problems. O Lord, please > do not push me into these conflicts and arguements. Give me the > strength and courage to be in the midst of these problems and still > remember You and remain detached. Let me try to work through them as > part of my duty, but let me be untouched by their virbrations'". Amma > > One could have this as the focus of their entire sadhana, don't you > think? Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi New Photos - easier uploading and sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 This has really stayed with me. It's funny that I've thought things like this to myself before, on so many occasions. But somehow things penetrate so much more deeply when they come from Amma... Iswari Ammachi, "Omana" <eveningstar8@h...> wrote: > " One should contemplate and pray in this manner: "My goal is far > beyond all these silly and trivial worldly problems. O Lord, please > do not push me into these conflicts and arguements. Give me the > strength and courage to be in the midst of these problems and still > remember You and remain detached. Let me try to work through them as > part of my duty, but let me be untouched by their virbrations'". Amma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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