Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: > So people ask, "If this > could happen to someone so close to Amma, then what hope is there for > me?" Swamiji went on to say, "The answer is, they were never close!" > > It's an interesting phenomona. What could this mean exactly > > --It means that Swarupananda doesn't know what he's talking about. that's > what it means. You all know the history of Gayatri; if this was not > closeness, tell me, what is? It's not just her; there are two others I > know of, who were close, and who left. It is too simplistic to the point > of a lie, to say that platitude that Swami said. Worse yet, I strongly > suspect this answer was not his own idea. So what exactly does all this > mean? Avram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: > Are you certain Amma was in the ashram at the time since she's away > more than 50% of the time? > I think she was, the way the story was told to me. They were working unsafely of course, probably thinking they were on "safe" territory, what with the Mother of the Universe and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: > Message: 11 > Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:11:43 -0700 > "Sankaran Narayanan" <sankaran > RE: Digest Number 576 > > While I would not like to get into a full discussion on this issue, I > would like to observe a few things, that > > are generally agreed upon by the scriptures also called as "sruti" in > hindu terms. > > > > 1) the law of karma is too subtle to understand, and any such > event that happens is due to the result of past > > actions. If a mahatma feels that what is going to happen is best for > the "soul's evolution" - evolution here, from a > > spritual perspective and not from the perspective of the seer, he may or > may not change the course of karmic destiny. Thus > > what seems to be the right course of action that is to be done (or that > should have been done) > > might not necessarily be an enlightened action. > > 2) in reality all seva done to a master or god advances the > spiritual evolution by a huge extent > > say by a couple of births or permanently - much faster than any amount > of individual spiritual practices that one does. > > > > In the current context, those who have read On the road to freedom vol > 1, might recall, mother's words to > > swami paramatmandanda: "son, if mother removes your pain now, you might > have to take another birth and > > suffer same or even more. Whereas if you experience this in this birth > itself and exhaust the karma, you may not > > have to take another birth" > > > > ----- this is just to show that the what seems to be a "correct > action" to the normal eye might not in reality be > > an "enlightened" action. > > > > And finally, I urge all in the list to use moderation when it comes to > using expressions like "con-artist" (from a different mail, but > > related to this thread) or "wormhood" . > Sankaran: Pranams to you. All I can is that the lack of discussion of this incident caused in me a sense of doubt and dread. What you are saying of course is not new and I knew it all the while. I guess it is hard medicine to swallow, which it is. And hard to deal with, both intelletually and emotionally. We tend to see Amma as a kindly, friendly woman in a white sari, wiping away our tears. That does not prepare us for the harsh reality of seemingly unnecessary deaths, and since it instantly becomes something never to talk about, these things fester like a worm in an apple, to use that metaphor. I think something needs to be said about these things, publically by Amma. It is sad that such horrible things are needed for purification, isn't it? And hard that we would have to stretch our imaginations to such an extent even to be able to put it in some sort of framework.Avram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: > The heavens declare God's grandeur and the radiance from which they arise. > Each dawn tells of this beauty; each night shines with this grace. > Their testimony speaks to the whole world and reaches to the ends of the > earth. > In them is a path for the sun, who steps forth handsome as a bridegroom and > > rejoices like an athlete as he runs. > He starts at one end of the heavens and circles to the other end, and > nothing > can hide from his heat. > God's universe is perfect, awing the mind. > God's truth is subtle, baffling the intellect. > God's law is complete, quickening the breath. > God's compassion is fathomless, refreshing the soul. > God's justice is absolute, lighting up, the eyes. > God's love is radiant, rejoicing the heart, more precious than the finest > gold, sweeter than honey from the comb. > Help me to be aware of my selfishness, but without undue shame or self > judgment. > Let me always feel you present, in every atom of my life. > Let me keep surrendering my self until I am utterly transparent. > Let my words be rooted in honesty and my thoughts be lost in your light, > Unnamable God, my essence, my origin, my life-blood, my home. > > ~Psalm 19 > > Yowzer! I am blown away by this. I can't believe it is from the Old Testament. I feel a sense of unity with my forbears now. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 Ammachi, sprose1@a... wrote: > In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Ammachi writes: > > > > So people ask, "If this > > could happen to someone so close to Amma, then what hope is there for > > me?" Swamiji went on to say, "The answer is, they were never close!" > > > > It's an interesting phenomona. What could this mean exactly > > > > --It means that Swarupananda doesn't know what he's talking about. that's > > what it means. You all know the history of Gayatri; if this was not > > closeness, tell me, what is? It's not just her; there are two others I > > know of, who were close, and who left. It is too simplistic to the point > > of a lie, to say that platitude that Swami said. Worse yet, I strongly > > suspect this answer was not his own idea. So what exactly does all this > > mean? Avram > > > Avram, I didn't mean to say that Swamiji was referring to Gayatri. I don't think he was. But does anyone else remember this? He said it quite clearly during one of the classes. He wasn't talking about anyone in particular...just that people come and go (from the inner circle? I'm not sure if he meant this) and I guess he meant that physical proximity doesn't necessarily mean closeness. L > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 Ammachi, sprose1@a... wrote: > In a message dated 8/25/02 7:51:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Ammachi writes: > > > > Are you certain Amma was in the ashram at the time since she's away > > more than 50% of the time? > > > > I think she was, the way the story was told to me. They were working > unsafely of course, probably thinking they were on "safe" territory, what > with the Mother of the Universe and all. > > > When I visited Amritapuri just recently for the first time, I too felt a little queezy way up their on the 11th floor and thought "What if I leaned too hard on this railing and it collapsed?" But then I realized it was Amma's ashram and her Shakti would protect me. Anyway, I tend to agree with what someone else said. If the goal is to never die and stay in the same body, then we might wonder where Amma's all-pervading protection was. But perhaps it was there destined time to go...maybe even going this way in the ashram was a kind of grace. Who really knows what kind of karma they had. It has been said, "Mysterious are the ways of karma." L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 >That does not prepare us for the harsh reality of > seemingly unnecessary deaths, and since it > instantly becomes something never to talk about, > these things fester like a worm in an apple, to > use that metaphor. I think something needs to be > said about these things, publically by Amma Discussing things like this doesn't do much good because we really don't have all the information about the person's life (sadhana, bhakti, goals in life, etc.). That information has lots to do with the prevention of untimely death and guru's grace. Even if Amma explained it publicly, a person's understanding of it would rest on that person's discrimination and personal beliefs. That's why I was against public posting of Gayatri's letter, because it would be picked apart to no good. About safety equipment, I work in the road maintenance line of work, and I can tell you first hand, that men (being men) are reluctant to wear the proper attire and equipment because it's not "manly". Supervisors just look the other way because they don't want to be a jerk to their co-workers (friends). >From my experience at satsang meetings, there's plenty of unnecessary and preventable suffering. There's a reason it's called Kali Yuga... tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 Here is a long story short. Last year I was feeling really sick, somebody at work talked me into doing something I never do because I was feeling and looking so very pale... "that vegetarian diet is killing you, you need some meat" she said, "Is it true Ma?" I thought to myself standing at the Xerox machine, I had a vision of Amma eating a fish and making it look tasty! We ordered from a local deli and I ate a piece of fish (blah, whatever I ate it). A few hours later I was rushed to the hospital blacking out with horrible abdominal pain and uncontrollable vomiting and diarrhea (phew, what a mess). I was Hooked up to an IV, and then came 8 hours of being poked, prodded, x-rayed and scanned. Poisoned by the Poisson, it was discovered incidentally, fishy aside, that I had a tumor on my liver the size of an orange that had ruptured and was hemorrhaging, it had to be surgically removed before I bled to death! I was so anemic from internal bleeding that I needed 2 blood transfusions. If I didn't get sick from the fish and wind up at the hospital, I'd be dead. Now some might call me gullible, impressionable, and naive (????) but I think Ma saved my life. Prove me wrong!!! But you know I guess it really seems that God drops the ball sometimes, so for all the inflaming, pot stirring, and for the sake of honest discussion (I guess) let me just help to get it all out on the table (no, please don't thank me). OK here goes: Why did the Europeans decimate the Native Americans? Why did the Turks kill 2 million Armenians? How did the Nazis kill 6 million Jews? Why can't the Jews and the Palestinians live together? Why are we fighting war over oil when we have solar technology? Who's idea was the "cold war"? What does the "first world" have against the "third world"? What does industry have against forests? Why did the whales beach themselves? Why did species go extinct for fashion? Who is wearing a fur coat that actually needs it? How many children in Sierra Leon have to have a limb hacked off because of wars over diamonds? Why did they kidnap and murder those little girls? Why did the priests molest those little boys? Why do approx. 350 black churches burn down in the southern USA in a year? What with this caste system? Why did they poison Socrates? Why did they crucify Jesus Christ? Why did they shoot Ghandi, Martin Luther King, John Lennon? Why did my dad punch my mom in the face over an over cooked pork chop? Who is burning brides for dowries, forcing Russian women into prostitution? Why did the dog run out in front of my car? Why didn't fluffy come home that night? Why did the spark from the outlet set fire to the couch that made the smoke that asphyxiated the family who died in the night in the fire? Why did I have to find out that my darling boyfriend was married, by his wife as screaming and slapping, she pulled me outside by my hair in front of the neighbors? Who stole that kids bicycle? Why did they fire Suzanna for no reason after 30 years at the Holiday Inn, too old and wrinkly for the front desk at hip South Beach? Why do people keep getting old becoming burdens on somebody or something? Why a whole life in a wheelchair, blind, deaf, insane, addicted? Who can pay that nasty debt? After we all finally "pull" ourselves up by our "bootstraps" who will clean the toilets? Does anyone have more? Please don't hold back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 "The world is As we are." ~ Hindu proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: > But you know I guess it really seems that God drops the ball > sometimes, so for all the inflaming, pot stirring, and > for the sake of honest discussion (I guess) let me just > help to get it all out on the table (no, > please don't thank me). OK here goes: Your logic is amazing. I made this page for people just like you: http://www.linux-tech.com/baloney_detection.html Do you understand what the term "on topic" means? > Does anyone have more? Please don't hold back! Since you ask, I will add some useful URL's for the rest here: http://www.nrdc.org/ http://www.savebiogems.org/ http://www.indymedia.org/ http://www.antiwar.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 Hey Rastanaga, go easy on her. I rather enjoyed reading that list. I don¹t agree that God¹s not intimately involved in all this. If He isn¹t, then he¹s not omniscient and omnipotent, and then He¹s not God and there isn¹t one, which I don¹t accept. -- > "rastanaga" <rastanaga > Ammachi > Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:19:19 -0000 > Ammachi > Re: Digest Number 577 > > > Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: >> > But you know I guess it really seems that God drops the ball >> > sometimes, so for all the inflaming, pot stirring, and >> > for the sake of honest discussion (I guess) let me just >> > help to get it all out on the table (no, >> > please don't thank me). OK here goes: > > Your logic is amazing. > > I made this page for people just like you: > > http://www.linux-tech.com/baloney_detection.html > > Do you understand what the term "on topic" means? > >> > Does anyone have more? Please don't hold back! > > Since you ask, I will add some useful URL's for > the rest here: > > http://www.nrdc.org/ > http://www.savebiogems.org/ > http://www.indymedia.org/ > http://www.antiwar.com/ > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 Dianadevi: > Why did the Europeans decimate the Native Americans? > Why did the Turks kill 2 million Armenians? > <snip> > Why a whole life in a wheelchair, blind, deaf, insane, addicted? > Who can pay that nasty debt? > After we all finally "pull" ourselves up by our "bootstraps" who will clean > > the toilets? > Lets remember to be in our hearts when the mind asks such questions. Even if your mind found an answer to each question, it will still ask more questions. In the very act of answering a question, the mind gets trained to ask another question .... and on .... and on ... and on. Why not dissolve the question instead of seeking an answer? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 Ammachi, pwhite0130@a... wrote: > Why not dissolve the question instead of seeking an answer? The main practice is the discipline of renunciation. This depends entirely upon the recognition that samsara is suffering and the resultant disgust. If you want to have genuine renunciation, you must recognize the presence and pervasiveness of suffering. Obviously, if you do not recognize the presence of suffering, you will have no reason to earnestly seek Generally speaking, we all know that there's lots of suffering in samsara, but it's hard sometimes to recognize appearances of pleasure as being essentially suffering as well. Essentially suffering is fear. Even when we are enjoying something, experiencing pleasure or happiness, we are filled with fear because when we possess or enjoy something pleasurable, we fear losing it. If we have a position or wealth, we live in fear of losing it. It doesn't matter how much you have or how little you have, fear is fundamentally the same. If you are the ruler of a country, you fear losing that position, if you are a homeless beggar on the street, you fear losing that position. The fear of suffering, the fear not only of losing what you enjoy, but of encountering what you especially do not enjoy, is the same for a king or for a beggar. So if you clearly understand the pervasiveness of fear, then you understand how the basic nature of samsara is suffering. If therefore you understand the truth of suffering (the first noble truth) and you recognize the presence of suffering, you will have genuine renunciation. Compassion fundamentally consists of recognizing the suffering of others and as a result generating the intense desire that they be free from that suffering. If you do not see your own suffering and thereby do not recognize the pervasiveness of suffering, it is impossible for you to see or to empathize with the suffering of others. ------------ Adapted from a talk of The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.