yoga tradition differences

[Guest guest]

I wonder if anyone can explain to me the basic differences in the yoga

traditions. I have been doing KY for almost 7 years and am in the middle of

my 3rd year teaching. However, I have never done a different form of yoga,

other than KY. My personal feeling from what I have read in Yoga Journal and

other like magazines and books, is that KY is more personal, more spiritual.

I am seriously considering trying other traditions for a more varied view

that I can teach to my students. Any comments?

Susan Devta Kaur

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Susan,

I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my opinion is

very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha.

 

I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in my

class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the asanas.

As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha

Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24 years

before my KY teacher training.

 

Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how the

energy moved through the body, and what it was doing.

 

I hope this helps,

Many Blessings,

Siri Ram K.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Susan Devta Kaur,

The goal of all yogas is to connect body, mind and spirit, and since that's

the case, they are all considered a personal and spiritual experience. My

own personal experience in doing other yogas is that the main focus is on

the asana (meaning, is my body flexible enough to do it, and how long can I

hold it). In KY, you're encouraged to keep your eyes closed and not focus

on the person next to you or worry about how well you're doing in an

asana....just do it! Just feel the experience. Yoga means "union"....not

just uniting body, mind and spirit but also being in union with other yogas.

If trying out other yogas is your desire, then go for it.

 

Sat Nam

Sheila B.

 

-

<DevtaKaur1

<Kundaliniyoga>

Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:13 AM

Re: yoga tradition differences

 

 

> I wonder if anyone can explain to me the basic differences in the yoga

> traditions. I have been doing KY for almost 7 years and am in the middle

of

> my 3rd year teaching. However, I have never done a different form of

yoga,

> other than KY. My personal feeling from what I have read in Yoga Journal

and

> other like magazines and books, is that KY is more personal, more

spiritual.

> I am seriously considering trying other traditions for a more varied view

> that I can teach to my students. Any comments?

> Susan Devta Kaur

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

> - Yogi Bhajan

>

> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My

Groups), or send mail to

> Kundaliniyoga-

> NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

> WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

>

> KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from

> kundalini yogaclasses.html

>

> Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga,

Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Devta Kaur:

 

I practiced hatha yoga for many years before getting started in KY,

and I would say that (for me) KY is much (much much) faster, more

spiritual, more intense, more varied, and more fun.

 

Working with other traditions is a great way to expand our knowledge,

and to work on things in a different way, but I would note that we

are asked (in teacher training, and personally by YB) not to mix

different traditions in our classes, as this dilutes the individual

traditions and confuses students who wish to practice one.

 

Learning and teaching different paths is wonderful, if that is what

you wish to do - for example, YB is a master of both KY and hatha

yoga, although he has chosen to focus on the teaching of KY.

 

All blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhant,

 

The hatha yoga I am talking about has almost nothing to do with the hatha

taught today in America. If you read the life story of Krishnamacharia, that

is the yoga I am talking about. He taught all of the same things that Yogi

Bhajan teaches. (mantra, breathing, yoga sutras, etc...)

 

The yogis that brought yoga to America like Paramahansa Yogananda put a

Christian spin on it, so that Americans would accept it. (It's amazing how

many people today still believe yoga is a religion.)

 

I believe it's time to bring back traditional yoga, not just the yoga that

has been reduced to mere technique.

 

Blessings

Siri Ram K.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhant,

 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Krishnamacharia taught the same

krias. I was talking about spiritual truth and spirituality. The book is

called Yoga and the living tradition of Krishnamacharia.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that I think you almost have to go

back 100 years to get the true spiritual Hatha yoga (breathing, mantra etc.)

I agree that most Hatha classes now leave the spiritual part out.

 

Siri Ram K.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Siri Ram Kaur & friends:

 

> very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha.

 

I agree that the correct posture that hatha stresses is important,

and am glad to see KY becoming more exacting about posture, but I do

question the idea that all yogas come from hatha. I think it is more

correct to say that hatha yoga, like all modern yogic paths, derive

from a much older yoga form (or forms) that may or may not be extant

today.

 

For example, the Prabhavananda & Isherwood commentary on the yoga

sutras of Patanjali states: "Hatha yoga was designed to prepare the

aspirant for spiritual experience by perfecting the body; but it has

been condemned by spiritual teachers because it tends, in practice,

to concentrate the mind upon the body itself" (#34, Yoga and its

aims). I infer from this that hatha is a relatively late development

in comparison to the yoga that Patanjali comments on.

 

Also, the bulk of the yoga sutras are focused on practices such as

mantra, pranayama, and so forth, that are rarely even mentioned, let

alone practiced, in the hatha yoga I have studied - although, again,

from the same commentary: "In the West, it (hatha yoga) is to be

found in a completely degenerated form", so perhaps it is only the

hatha I have studied here.

 

Nevertheless, "asana", which is the main focus of hatha yoga (as I

know it), is only 1 of the 8 aspects of the 8-fold path of yoga, and

I would argue that hatha yoga, like KY, or karma yoga or ashtanga or

bhakti yoga or, indeed, any of the paths that one might follow today,

are modern paths that have been developed and systematized in more

recent times. Some (and I include KY in this) work toward including

all aspects of the 8-fold path, and others, like mantra yoga or

modern (Western) hatha, at least as I know it, do not, as they tend

to focus in on a particular aspect of the larger practice of yoga.

 

BTW, just as a point of interest, I have had students come to my

class who have travelled in India and learned yoga there, and have

mentioned that the KY we practice came closer to the yoga they

learned there than any other paths they had encountered in the US.

 

I welcome discussion and/or correction of my off-the-cuff analysis.

 

Love & blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Dear Siri Ram:

 

> taught today in America. If you read the life story of

>Krishnamacharia, that

 

Could you provide a specific book reference? I did a little web

searching, and get a lot of references to viniyoga and T.K.V.

Desikachar (his son, yes?), but haven't found a a book that says it

gives his life story. Am I looking at the right person?

 

> is the yoga I am talking about. He taught all of the same things

 

One thing I don't see in books like "The Heart of Yoga", by

Desikachar, which I've looked at briefly, is any reference to kriyas

in the sense that YB teaches - in fact, even the kriya yoga that I am

(somewhat) familiar with (Goswami Kriyananda) doesn't teach these

sorts of kriyas, although it does include all the other aspects of

classical yoga, I think.

 

Could you comment on that topic and other differences that you see

between the more traditional hatha that you refer to and KY?

 

Love & blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Sadhant,

I gave you the wrong name to the book. It's called Health, Healing and beyond

by: Desikichar (sp?)

Siri Ram

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know of KY instructors in the Minneapolis/St Paul MN area?

Thanks,

Barb

 

maheryogini wrote:

 

> Dear Susan,

> I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my opinion is

> very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha.

>

> I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in my

> class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the asanas.

> As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha

> Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24 years

> before my KY teacher training.

>

> Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how the

> energy moved through the body, and what it was doing.

>

> I hope this helps,

> Many Blessings,

> Siri Ram K.

>

>

>

>

> "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

> - Yogi Bhajan

>

> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups),

or send mail to

> Kundaliniyoga-

> NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

> WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

>

> KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from

> kundalini yogaclasses.html

>

> Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation,

Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

could you explain to me why yoga isnt a religion and why many people think

it is?

sat nam

kristin

-

[Guest guest]

Dear Siri Ram:

 

> back 100 years to get the true spiritual Hatha yoga (breathing,

 

Thanks for passing that (corrected) book title along. I think there

is a fair amount of confusion about the terminology of the different

types of yoga, no doubt because plenty of it has been kept secret,

and also because different yogic paths have pursued different

objectives over time, and adopted different names, and have been

popularized by particular teachers, etc. Certainly the books I have

read which discuss the history of yoga don't show much agreement or

consistency, except in the broadest sense and with the oldest of

ideas - I can't help wondering how much of this was actually

deliberate, in keeping with the idea that yoga was kept secret so

that only the highly motivated would seek out a teacher...

 

However, if you look at older texts, like the sutras and various

interpretations of them, you find references to what I think of as

the classical yoga forms, such as karma yoga (right action), bhakti

yoga (service & devotion), kriya-yoga (yoga of action), etc, which

are, of course, thousands of years old.

 

I haven't found hatha to be a classical delineation according to what

I've read so far, and conclude from what I've read that the various

forms of hatha (and kundalini, ashtanga, etc.) are families of yoga

which, by the evolution through lineage and teacher and time, have

expanded from one of the classical yogas (primarily, I assume, from

classical kriya-yoga).

 

BTW, I notice that the Viniyoga practitioners, which seem to be the

current followers of Krishnamacharya's teachings, go out of their way

to say that their yoga is not a particular form of yoga, so they also

seem to be trying to dump the association with hatha yoga

 

Again, I welcome correction, argument, or discussion of this stuff -

I enjoy history, and since I love yoga, I naturally love the history

of yoga. Just can't get much clear data - which generally

characterizes all history anyway

 

All blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Kristin:

 

> could you explain to me why yoga isnt a religion and why many

>people think it is?

 

A simple answer to the first question is that religions are belief

systems (they tell you what to believe), and yoga is not (a basic

yogic teaching is that you should believe only what you experience

for yourself).

 

There is, of course, plenty of yogic philosophy, which one can learn

about or not, as we prefer, but the philosophy is not yoga, the

practices are, and they speak for themselves.

 

As to the second, a simple answer is that many people (particularly

in Western countries) have trouble distinguishing between religion

and spiritual practices, assuming that anything that is spiritual

must involve beliefs.

 

Also, yoga has always had an intertwined relationship with various

religions in different countries - SpiritWeb has an interesting

discussion of this topic (though it comes from a different yogic

path) - try this link:

 

http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/laya-yoga.html

 

Love & blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhant:

I agree with you about the terminology of the different types of Yoga. When

I think of Hatha Yoga I think about holding a sustained pose, and mentally

focusing on the pose and breath. I don't necessarily think of ashtanga, etc.

If you can read the book and let me know what you think. I am going to reread

it myself (it has been a while since I read it).

Blessings,

Siri Ram

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alinement and positions are very inportant but I have been taught that Hatha

Yoga is only one branch of Kundalini Yoga which is the mother of all the

yoga's. The yoga that all the others have came from. I also did Hatha first

but there is nothing like taking KY from a true instructor. I cried at my

first class 9 years ago knowing that I was home. Sandy (Yogi Jiwan Kaur)

PS: forgive me if I step on anyone's toes; that was not my intent. I am here

only to grow and learn also. I also am a KY Instructor and you can find an

instructor in your teachers directory thru: yogibhajan.com/index.html

I am sure that there is a more direct route but this will give you access

then look for teachers index

-

"Barbara Jean Phelps" <bjp

<Kundaliniyoga>

Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:33 PM

Re: yoga tradition differences

 

 

> Does anyone know of KY instructors in the Minneapolis/St Paul MN area?

> Thanks,

> Barb

>

> maheryogini wrote:

>

> > Dear Susan,

> > I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my

opinion is

> > very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha.

> >

> > I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in

my

> > class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the

asanas.

> > As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha

> > Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24

years

> > before my KY teacher training.

> >

> > Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how

the

> > energy moved through the body, and what it was doing.

> >

> > I hope this helps,

> > Many Blessings,

> > Siri Ram K.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

> > - Yogi Bhajan

> >

> > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My

Groups), or send mail to

> > Kundaliniyoga-

> > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

> > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

> >

> > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from

> > kundalini yogaclasses.html

> >

> > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga,

Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

>

>

>

> "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

> - Yogi Bhajan

>

> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My

Groups), or send mail to

> Kundaliniyoga-

> NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

> WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

>

> KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from

> kundalini yogaclasses.html

>

> Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga,

Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

This issue raises a question for me. I am a KY instructor, and was taught in

teacher training that we should not alter sets (except to modify times and

positions to adapt to student abilities) or to create sets. We have a teacher

here who does just that, and it is disturbing to me. I appreciate your comment

as it is a good explanation of why we shouldn't do that. I do have another

question. It seems that there are certain teachers of long experience who do

create sets. I think, e.g., Gururattan's manuals carry some sets with her name,

even though most sets are identified right down to the date Yogi Bhajan taught

them. At what point does a teacher become accomplished enough to do this? Can

you elaboarate on why it is important for the average teacher not to inject

their own creative influences into the teaching?

 

Many thanks, sukhmani kaur

-

Sadhant Singh

Kundaliniyoga

Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:57 AM

Re: yoga tradition differences

 

 

Dear Devta Kaur:

 

I practiced hatha yoga for many years before getting started in KY,

and I would say that (for me) KY is much (much much) faster, more

spiritual, more intense, more varied, and more fun.

 

Working with other traditions is a great way to expand our knowledge,

and to work on things in a different way, but I would note that we

are asked (in teacher training, and personally by YB) not to mix

different traditions in our classes, as this dilutes the individual

traditions and confuses students who wish to practice one.

 

Learning and teaching different paths is wonderful, if that is what

you wish to do - for example, YB is a master of both KY and hatha

yoga, although he has chosen to focus on the teaching of KY.

 

All blessings,

Sadhant

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

"OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

- Yogi Bhajan

 

You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups),

or send mail to

Kundaliniyoga-

NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

 

KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from

kundalini yogaclasses.html

 

Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation,

Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sukhmani Kaur:

 

> This issue raises a question for me. I am a KY instructor, and was

>taught in teacher training that we should not alter sets (except to

>modify times and positions to adapt to student abilities) or to

>create sets. We have a teacher here who does just that, and it is

>disturbing to me. I appreciate your comment as it is a good

>explanation of why we shouldn't do that. I do have another

>question. It seems that there are certain teachers of long

>experience who do create sets. I think, e.g., Gururattan's manuals

>carry some sets with her name, even though most sets are identified

>right down to the date Yogi Bhajan taught them. At what point does

>a teacher become accomplished enough to do this? Can you elaboarate

>on why it is important for the average teacher not to inject their

>own creative influences into the teaching?

 

Certainly, nobody has ever really spoken on this point to me, but my

guess would be that only a genuine master (5th stage of development,

or Sat Pad) of yoga is accomplished enough to create sets for others

to practice. In other words, I don't think this is a question of

experience per se, or amount of time spent in practice, but of

spiritual development, which is something objective enough to be

apparent to another person at that level of development (or higher).

 

I am basing this thinking on descriptions of the actual source of

kriyas, which is literally the spontaneous movement of the body

through sequences of asanas (and mudras, bhands, pranayam, etc.)

which occurs in very advanced yoga practitioners (this is the actual

meaning of the word kriya). I would assume, however, that even at

this stage, one may not be accomplished enough to determine which of

one's own personal kriyas are suitable for sharing with students -

I'd assume that this requires mastery, which is rather rare, and I

suspect that only a master has the necessary insight to understand

all the potential ramifications that practicing a given kriya would

have on anyone & everyone.

 

I have told this story before (one shared with me by a lady who lives

in the Espanola ashram), but perhaps it bears repeating in this

context:

 

Yogi Bhajan was sitting with a group of people (I believe in a

restaurant in NYC), and at one point he suddenly closed his eyes

and "went away" for a little while. When he returned, somebody asked

him about this, and he said that a teacher in LA had left a posture

out of a kriya he was teaching, and that he needed to adjust the

class to make up for it. One of the people at the table taught at

the LA ashram, and later on was talking to a friend of hers who had

been teaching that day. She asked him if he was teaching at that

time, and when he said that he was, she asked him if he'd left out a

posture. He was rather amazed at this, and admitted his mistake.

 

This is what a master is and what a master can do. I doubt that

anybody else should provide kriyas for students...

 

Love & blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

we should not alter sets (except to modify times and positions to adapt to

student abilities) or to create sets.

 

The other exception is that you can add warm ups before teaching a set to

prepare students for the set or kriya.

 

Sat nam,

 

Gururattan Kaur

[Guest guest]

thank you for your responses. the explanation of a master as developer of

kriyas was especially helpfu.

 

i'd like to clarify my question a little. If, for example, I use a set from

Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I using a set originally taught by Yogi

Bhajan? This is what is unclear to me. I know YB has taught literally

hundreds of sets and, fortunately, many people took excellent notes and

converted them to a form others could use. what I'm wondering is, were all the

KY sets we now use originally taught by him?

 

sukhmani

-

Gururattan K.Khalsa

Kundaliniyoga

Monday, April 02, 2001 12:35 PM

Re: Re: yoga tradition differences

 

 

Sat Nam,

 

we should not alter sets (except to modify times and positions to adapt to

student abilities) or to create sets.

 

The other exception is that you can add warm ups before teaching a set to

prepare students for the set or kriya.

 

Sat nam,

 

Gururattan Kaur

 

 

Sponsor

 

Click for Details

 

 

"OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY"

- Yogi Bhajan

 

You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups),

or send mail to

Kundaliniyoga-

NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!

WEB SITE: kundalini yoga

 

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kundalini yogaclasses.html

 

Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation,

Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sukhmani:

 

> i'd like to clarify my question a little. If, for example, I use

>a set from Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I using a set

>originally taught by Yogi Bhajan? This is what is unclear to me. I

>know YB has taught literally hundreds of sets and, fortunately,

>many people took excellent notes and converted them to a form others

>could use. what I'm wondering is, were all the KY sets we now use

>originally taught by him?

 

Originally? It depends on how you mean that. Obviously, many of the

kriyas are much older than YB, because the history of many kriyas (as

provided as part of the teachings) go back hundreds or even thousands

of years.

 

If you are asking if any students of YB have created their own

kriyas, then I do not know the answer to that, but I have never seen

an attribution that indicated otherwise.

 

Many blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/03/2001 4:20:53 PM W. Europe Daylight Time,

kundaliniyoga writes:

 

> If you are asking if any students of YB have created their own

> kriyas, then I do not know the answer to that, but I have never seen

> an attribution that indicated otherwise.

>

> Many blessings,

> Sadhant

>

 

The most respected German KY author/teacher says clearly

that the exercises he presents were all taught by YB, but that the sets are

of his own creation. The sets are designed to affect

of Chinese meridians, and there is some astrology thrown in as well.

 

Ardas

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

If, for example, I use a set from Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I

using a set originally taught by Yogi Bhajan?

 

As far as I know these are YB sets.

 

what I'm wondering is, were all the KY sets we now use originally taught by

him?

 

A few of the sets in my manuals were "made up" by Gurucharan Singh who has

been blessed by YB to be the channel for KY. He might have learned them

from YB but I got them from classes I took from him.

 

The Green energy set is one. No one questions anything Gurucharan teaches,

not even YB. In fact YB tells us to ask GCS.

 

Sat Nam,

 

Gururattan Kaur