Sheepskins = suffering and bad karma

[Guest guest]

Hi!

 

About the sheepskins. In yesterday's post, someone said the following:

"we are not involved in the killing (of the sheep)", "(the sheep) LIKE

their skins to used in meditation" and "they(the sheep) are not killed for

their skins".

 

I respectfully disagree with all of the above. If you like using

sheepskins and don't care about the animal who once owned them, fine, admit

it and go on. But let's not be dishonest about the issue.

 

It is not true that we are not involved in the killing of the sheep

when we use their skins. Yes, we are not DIRECTLY killing them, but we are

using the products that came from their death, and we are SUPPORTING the

killing by giving others money to do the dirty work. This is a form of

indirect killing and when you use these products you have some of the karma

because you are part of the process.

 

Sheep LIKE their skins to be used for meditation? Have you asked a

sheep? As far as I know animals are sentient creatures who value their lives

(and skins) and will fight for their them. They also avoid pain and

suffering. I haven't as yet seen animals gladly lay down their lives so we

can have a comfy rug (that we don't absolutely need for good meditations).

Please! There is no reason to have to have a sheepskin or to use the bodily

parts of any other animal to have good Kundalini sessions or meditations!

And let's stop assuming animals are just DYING to serve our every whim and

want just so we can feel better about exploiting them.

 

Yes, it's probably true that the sheep were not killed ONLY for their

skins, but PART of the reason they were killed is because of the skins. Just

like in the meat industry, leather is a large componet of the profits,

without which the industry would suffer. When you are purchasing any animal

product like skins, you ARE supporting the ranchers, the factory farms and

slaughterhouses. You are supporting all of the componets of and that lead up

to the killing. You become a part of it! I am sorry, it's not honest to

say you don't have a part in the killing when you use "just the skins". The

karma of their suffering will be with you then, too.

 

From what I have learned from other Masters is that a part of any true

spiritual path, is that you are compassionate to ALL beings. It doesn't mean

that animals become more than humans or even that they have the same worth.

You just recognize that you don't want to contribute to the suffering of the

world (whether animal or human) anymore. By keeping a vegetarian diet and

refraining from buying animal products (especially unnessary ones) you

improving collective and personal karma.

 

 

 

Kristina

[Guest guest]

Kristina....

 

i maybe wrong... but i understood Gururattan Kaur's post differently...

(i think it is her post you are refering to)

 

when she wrote "they are not killed for their skins" i understood it to mean

that they are not farmed for that purpose... meaning no one kills them

but their skin is put to use when they die...

 

its sort of like when native american's sell animal parts such as antlers and

such

they are called "shed" antlers meaning that the animal was not killed for

the product... but the antler was either shed or they were harvested from

the animal without harming... or found upon death...

 

that is not to say that there are no industries out there that do kill animals

for the purpose of obtaining their skins... but i understood that perhaps

there are "kind" supplier out there that dont kill animals but obtain the

skins

after natural death... especially for those cultures or philosophies that

follow "harm none including animals..."

 

but i could have misunderstood it too....

just my thoughts

 

Sat Nam

Akire

[Guest guest]

Hi Kristina,

I agree with u totally about the bad karma due to using the sheepskin. In

fact, when i read someone wrote that the sheep LIKE their skins to used in

meditation, i was utterly disgusted with what the person have naively been

thinking..............it was definitely selfish thoughts that have led them

to use the sheepskin thinking it would boost their meditation process/

relieving the sheep's suffering by ending their live earlier to let us use

their skin for good purpose.

 

A true yogi avoid inflicting suffering to all animals and humans, whether it

is directly or INDIRECTLY. Meditation is an inward journey within yourself.

Using Sheepskin is external and not necessary at all.

 

Sat Nam,

Tommy

 

-

<lv2breathe

<Kundaliniyoga >

Cc: <Lv2breathe

Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:56 AM

Sheepskins = suffering and bad karma

 

 

>

> Hi!

>

> About the sheepskins. In yesterday's post, someone said the

following:

> "we are not involved in the killing (of the sheep)", "(the sheep) LIKE

> their skins to used in meditation" and "they(the sheep) are not killed for

> their skins".

>

> I respectfully disagree with all of the above. If you like using

> sheepskins and don't care about the animal who once owned them, fine,

admit

> it and go on. But let's not be dishonest about the issue.

>

> It is not true that we are not involved in the killing of the sheep

> when we use their skins. Yes, we are not DIRECTLY killing them, but we

are

> using the products that came from their death, and we are SUPPORTING the

> killing by giving others money to do the dirty work. This is a form of

> indirect killing and when you use these products you have some of the

karma

> because you are part of the process.

>

> Sheep LIKE their skins to be used for meditation? Have you asked a

> sheep? As far as I know animals are sentient creatures who value their

lives

> (and skins) and will fight for their them. They also avoid pain and

> suffering. I haven't as yet seen animals gladly lay down their lives so

we

> can have a comfy rug (that we don't absolutely need for good meditations).

> Please! There is no reason to have to have a sheepskin or to use the

bodily

> parts of any other animal to have good Kundalini sessions or meditations!

> And let's stop assuming animals are just DYING to serve our every whim and

> want just so we can feel better about exploiting them.

>

> Yes, it's probably true that the sheep were not killed ONLY for

their

> skins, but PART of the reason they were killed is because of the skins.

Just

> like in the meat industry, leather is a large componet of the profits,

> without which the industry would suffer. When you are purchasing any

animal

> product like skins, you ARE supporting the ranchers, the factory farms and

> slaughterhouses. You are supporting all of the componets of and that lead

up

> to the killing. You become a part of it! I am sorry, it's not honest to

> say you don't have a part in the killing when you use "just the skins".

The

> karma of their suffering will be with you then, too.

>

> From what I have learned from other Masters is that a part of any

true

> spiritual path, is that you are compassionate to ALL beings. It doesn't

mean

> that animals become more than humans or even that they have the same

worth.

> You just recognize that you don't want to contribute to the suffering of

the

> world (whether animal or human) anymore. By keeping a vegetarian diet and

> refraining from buying animal products (especially unnessary ones) you

> improving collective and personal karma.

>

>

>

> Kristina

>

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[Guest guest]

It is fact people kill sheep for their meat. Perhaps using the skins for a

holy purpose is better than throwing them away. People will eat lamb, what

ever is done with the rest is not a concern of those people.

[Guest guest]

<<From what I have learned from other Masters is that a part of any true

spiritual path, is that you are compassionate to ALL beings. It doesn't mean

that animals become more than humans or even that they have the same worth.

You just recognize that you don't want to contribute to the suffering of the

world (whether animal or human) anymore. By keeping a vegetarian diet and

refraining from buying animal products (especially unnessary ones) you

improving collective and personal karma.>>

 

Merry Meet!

I am also a vegetarian, but not because I don't agree with killing animals

for food. I disagree that keeping a vegetarian diet is any more compassionate

to all beings than any other diet. This is just another humble opinion, but

becoming vegetarian to save the lives of animals is discriminatory,

"kingdomism" or something. Choosing to eat only the from the plant kingdom

and to save the lives of only the animal kingdom, at least I think, won't

improve one's personal Karma.

 

I am, however, a vegetarian because I disagree with the totalitarianism of

the meat industry. All animals, except for humans, take only what they need

from what's around them. Unfortunately, that sometimes involves killing. I do

not see this as wrong. The food chain happens. But one lion doesn't kill ten

gazelles and sell the bodies to it's pack. The lion also does not claim the

herd of gazelles for itself and for only itself. The lion does not kill off

the competition for the herd of gazelles, or kill off anything that's not

beneficial to the growth of the herd.

 

This is where all of this is going: Think of farmers that kill off all

coyotes, cats, and wolves within miles of "their" herds, and spray pesticides

on the grass to kill the insects that eat the grass on the land that "their"

herds eat from. Then the farmers turn around and bring the herds to market to

have them slaughtered, packaged, and sold for $1.79 a pound. My problem is

not with the farmers--they are just serving hungry people who find this

perfectly acceptable. I think this "totalitarian agriculture" trivializes the

lives of animals. I don't see animals as property. I don't see plants as

property either. I don't see humans as any more special than a bacterium or

an ox. Humans are just more full of themselves.

 

Anyway, some might argue that this goes on everyday with plants as well. It's

true: totalitarian agriculture isn't limited to the animal kingdom. It's just

that generally, it is not needed to wipe a plant off the face of this Earth

to eat from it. Fruits are taken, but the tree still lives. I see it as the

lesser of two "evils".

 

Sunraes, Moonbeams, and Bright Blessings,

Aurora Silvermane

[Guest guest]

Surely using the hide of a slaughter`d animal will imbue any energy based

(meditation etc) actions with NEGATIVE energy.

 

IMO whoever suggested using a sheeps hide for meditative purposes is

completely missing the point, and rather than seeking inner light, is more

looking (at the very least for sensual comforts, and quite possibly without

realising it is being drawn to a dangerous path).

 

Get a grip, if anything should be done with the by product of the ignorant

slaughtering of the innocent beings we are here to care for, it should be

burial with apologetic ceremony, not the donning of their skins because they

"feel nice".

 

Perhaps I could use the skull of a murdered person in my meditation, after

all I didn't kill tht person, and it'd be a shame to see the by product of

tht murder go to waste, especially if I find it helpful in my acquisition of

inner peace.

[Guest guest]

Dear Kristina,

I'm glad you responded about the sheepskin and I support what you said. I

was going to respond but never got around to it.

 

It reminds me of when some people say, well I only kill a deer when it

offers itself to me.

My response: "And you know the deer wants to sacrifice itself, how...?"

 

Kartar Kaur

>

> I respectfully disagree with all of the above. If you like using

> sheepskins and don't care about the animal who once owned them, fine, admit

> it and go on. But let's not be dishonest about the issue.

>

> It is not true that we are not involved in the killing of the sheep

> when we use their skins. Yes, we are not DIRECTLY killing them, but we are

> using the products that came from their death, and we are SUPPORTING the

> killing by giving others money to do the dirty work. This is a form of

> indirect killing and when you use these products you have some of the karma

> because you are part of the process.

>

> Sheep LIKE their skins to be used for meditation? Have you asked a

> sheep? As far as I know animals are sentient creatures who value their lives

> (and skins) and will fight for their them. They also avoid pain and

> suffering. I haven't as yet seen animals gladly lay down their lives so we

> can have a comfy rug (that we don't absolutely need for good meditations).

> Please! There is no reason to have to have a sheepskin or to use the bodily

> parts of any other animal to have good Kundalini sessions or meditations!

> And let's stop assuming animals are just DYING to serve our every whim and

> want just so we can feel better about exploiting them.

>

[some has been clipped]>

>

[innerlotus 0]

I certainly wouldn't try to connect with the divine by using a poor animals stolen skin.

 

I think the best place for any 'remaining' body parts, would be a burial ceremony. I don't think these animals should be killed in the first place. What gives humans the right to kill billions (trillions actually) of species each year?

 

We don't need to eat these animals, this much is known. So why does it persist? My girlfriend and I have been vegan for nearly a year and a half and have had no difficulties with health. I would recommend absolute compassion for everybody who wants to receive the blessing of the giant inner lotus & tree of life at the centre of us all. Absolute compassion for us means becoming more and more aware of what you are supporting, and making as much effort possible to avoid supporting such things. You will know when you should stop supporting things.. Whether that means stopping buying meat, eggs, dairy, leather.. stopping to buy products from stores that sell meat or leather. It is not easy, this much we are learning... as our whole society is filled with 'convenience' for the people willing to fund animal slaughter. There is also a massive agenda to ensure that we are conditioned to believing certain products are there for us, when our spiritual quest seems futile: cigarettes, alcohol to name a few....

 

As for the plant issue, I think it is too easy to deny compassion to animals due for slaughter because of this. Work towards a plant based diet where those plants you eat on a regular basis are not killed in harvest, and most of which do not come from the ground, as to avoid harming the insects that nest there. Buy organic where possible. Lists of vegetables that do not die each harvest, and those root vegetables to stay away from are available online. I believe we receive karma from eating vegetables too, and the more we can learn about reducing harm to the beings in plants as well the better.

 

Clearly it is not possible to be karma free, but we can certainly make as much effort as possible!!

 

I see people who care for the beings of similarity (animals with eyes, ears, legs, feet etc) as being the most likely candidates for those that would also care about plant life. I think those who use plants as an excuse to justify eating meat care about neither; as the plants and animals are one.

 

The spiritual urge is weakened strongly by our own arrogance, at not wanting to limit our own options..whether it be by having to avoid the local super market, or not being able to enjoy foods we like, or hang around people who have certain views/behaviours relating to animals/women/the rights of beings in general (aside from their own egos). But occasionally I receive inner light, and it tells me that our choice is right, and what is left after all of our restraint and effort? Still billions of beings suffering much worse than we, still animals right now being killed, and taken from their parents.. there is so much suffering. We can go into ourselves, but what point is there in trying to unify if we don't give all of our being and energy to the cause of compassion, which seeks to lighten the burden of that pain in our fellow beings. If we don't believe in this, we'd may as well abandon the spiritual path completely.

 

By following the path of compassion, you can rest in the understanding that you are far from alone, and that when you do become 'enlightened' you are joining a unity, not escaping one. The spiritual world, as I have and continue to see it, is an absolutely wonderful, mysterious, beautiful place, and we shouldn't expect it to bless our path without an appropriate level of consistent effort.

 

I send out love and light to all beings,

I send out light and love to all beings.

I send out my deep feelings of love to all sheep being ab-used, in hope that humans can wake up and see whats really going on here on this planet!

[FOLlove 0]

Have you all considered the fact that Shiva the Lord of Yoga is seated on a tiger's skin and many masters throughout time in India have similarly used tiger/animal skins for meditation purposes? I'm sure they were all well aware of the possible karmic implications of doing so... It's also stated in Vedic texts that any animal used in sacrificial purposes automatically receives a human body in its next incarnation. I would speculate that since most times the yogi does not personally kill the animal itself that doing spiritual work on its skin if anything would help to negate any negative karma incurred from it's slaughter.

 

But if you don't personally agree with the practice find another way!

 

Namaste

[Guest YogiD]

^^^ He said it.