Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Does anyone out there ever have trouble with picturing ganesh as the all pervading substance of the universe and at the same time as a being with human desires. They are small desires such as a mudaka or touch of a lover but still very humanesc. Its difficult to imagine something with no beggining or end going yum thats some good sugar milk. I feel like every time my faith starts to get strong these blasfimus questions and thoughts enter my mind. Dont think of me as a wise as*. This is something that causes me much trouble in life. I feal like Im playing mind games with myself. How comforting it must have been for an apostle of christ to be able to ask questions of god in the flesh . The imediate gratification of being able to have a sit down talk with (The so called) Messiah of man kind must have been indescribable. In my visions of Ganesh he never speaks he just looks at me like as to say "I feal you man, its gonna be alright" Its never a conversation. Im sorry to sound like a big cry baby. I just want to know if Im alone in my thinking or if there are others witht the same troubles. Such a tangled mess. I can pray to Ganesh with Lakshmi on his lap asking for material things or wealth only to have the same gifts torn from me by the same god. I guess there is a fine line between enjoying life and being attached to it. Ill end this rant now. Thanks for listening. Love James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Namaste James! I think I know what you are going through. I'm not sure where you're from, but, I think for me, it's part of being raised as a Christian in the USA, that I sometimes think to myself: "God is an elephant?". But I realize that this form is only a symbol that represnts a greater reality. I gave up Christianity during college, tried Paganism for about 10 years, and when that didn't pan out, went to Buddhism. But something was missing....I was drawn to Lord Ganesha, but could not "fit" him into my Buddhist cosmology comfortably! It was only after reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda that I realized what was missing......God. I have now given up on Buddhism, and am devoting myself to developing a relationship with Lord Ganesha. Don't feel discouraged! He's right there to help you if you only ask! Good Luck! Om Sri Ganeshaya Namah!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 10.0pt">Namaste James and all, 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">In response to your mail James I have responded with some thoughts from my own understanding. Please feel welcome to accept or reject as much of it as you will, it is only a humble opinion being offered : ) 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>Does anyone out there ever have trouble with picturing ganesh as the all pervading substance of the universe and at the same time as a being with human desires.> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">In my understanding Ganesh is without human desire, for he is not human. The regular human being is bound in being human, and Bhagavan Ganesh is not human! He is the first Shakti, the child of Shiva and Shakti Ma, who are in truth one and Ganesh is one with them also. To think of Ganesh as human brings him down to our common level, better for us to first become aware of our inner Divinity and then say he like us and we are like him. 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>They are small desires such as a mudaka or touch of a lover but still very humanesc. Its difficult to imagine something with no beggining or end going yum thats some good sugar milk.> 10.0pt"> margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-pagination:none;tab-stops:36.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none">IMVHO, it is erroneous to think of the major deities craving after such things. Whenever an offering of, say sugar milk, is made to Ganesh it is not the sugar milk that is of any real importance. It is only your devotion and humility that is important in the offering. The outer offerings are of far, far less importance than what you offer inwardly. In the Bhagavad Gita, chapter 9, shloka 26, it reads – ‘Whoever offers Me with devotion and a pure mind (heart), a leaf, a flower, a fruit or a little water—I accept this offering because it was made with love.’ The offering itself is of little importance, your inner state, which is the real offering, the giving up of your limited egohood, this is the real sacrifice. I’d bet the little money I have that Ganesh does not give two hoots about sugar milk or any other material offering. margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:18.0pt;mso-pagination:none;tab-stops:36.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none">Also understand that the offering made is for your benefit not Lord Ganesha’s. He has no need of such physical things, it is but dust to him; but we, you and I, we have much need of making offerings because we have much spiritual growth left to do. 10.0pt"> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>I feel like every time my faith starts to get strong these blasfimus questions and thoughts enter my mind.> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">Such questions are not blasphemous James. Blasphemy orginates from ill intent towards the Divine and this is not the case here. You are asking questions because your understanding is growing and maturing. 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>Dont think of me as a wise as*. This is something that causes me much trouble in life. I feal like Im playing mind games with myself. How comforting it must have been for an apostle of christ to be able to ask questions of god in the flesh . The imediate gratification of being able to have a sit down talk with (The so called) Messiah of man kind must have been indescribable. In my visions of Ganesh he never speaks he just looks at me like as to say "I feal you man, its gonna be alright" Its never a conversation. Im sorry to sound like a big cry baby. I just want to know if Im alone in my thinking or if there are others witht the same troubles. Such a tangled mess.> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">Perhaps you would find it of benefit James to broaden your perspective and understanding of Ganesh. From what I can gather, and this may be wrong of course, but your view of Ganesh is mainly limited to the visual imagery of him and the Puranic accounts of him. I strongly feel that the symbolism has to be understood and the deeper meanings of the sacred texts penetrated. The Puranic accounts of Shiva, Parvati and Ganesh as a family are Divinely metaphysical realities expressed in a way that all people can get something from, even if they have no understanding or knowledge of the more subtle mysteries. This is not to say that Ganesh will not appear in the forms that he is worshipped in, but he is more than this, far more. The form (or forms) of Ganesh are only the tip of his iceberg and the deeper one goes the more enormous that iceberg becomes. 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>I can pray to Ganesh with Lakshmi on his lap asking for material things or wealth only to have the same gifts torn from me by the same god. I guess there is a fine line between enjoying life and being attached to it. Ill end this rant now.> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">Pray to Ganesh, pray to Lakshmi, but always try expand your understanding of what is being given to you and what should be done with it. The same goes for one’s devotion. 10.0pt"> 10.0pt"> 10.0pt">>Thanks for listening.> Ditto : ) font-family:"Courier New""> font-family:"Courier New""> Om Shanti font-family:"Courier New"">Neil font-family:"Courier New""> margin-left:54.0pt"> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> color:blue"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 James Neil Campbell <pashu (AT) trika (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote: Namaste James and all, In response to your mail James I have responded with some thoughts from my own understanding. Please feel welcome to accept or reject as much of it as you will, it is only a humble opinion being offered : ) >Does anyone out there ever have trouble with picturing ganesh as the all pervading substance of the universe and at the same time as a being with human desires.> In my understanding Ganesh is without human desire, for he is not human. The regular human being is bound in being human, and Bhagavan Ganesh is not human! He is the first Shakti, the child of Shiva and Shakti Ma, who are in truth one and Ganesh is one with them also. To think of Ganesh as human brings him down to our common level, better for us to first become aware of our inner Divinity and then say he like us and we are like him. >They are small desires such as a mudaka or touch of a lover but still very humanesc. Its difficult to imagine something with no beggining or end going yum thats some good sugar milk.> IMVHO, it is erroneous to think of the major deities craving after such things. Whenever an offering of, say sugar milk, is made to Ganesh it is not the sugar milk that is of any real importance. It is only your devotion and humility that is important in the offering. The outer offerings are of far, far less importance than what you offer inwardly. In the Bhagavad Gita, chapter 9, shloka 26, it reads – ‘Whoever offers Me with devotion and a pure mind (heart), a leaf, a flower, a fruit or a little water—I accept this offering because it was made with love.’ The offering itself is of little importance, your inner state, which is the real offering, the giving up of your limited egohood, this is the real sacrifice. I’d bet the little money I have that Ganesh does not give two hoots about sugar milk or any other material offering. Also understand that the offering made is for your benefit not Lord Ganesha’s. He has no need of such physical things, it is but dust to him; but we, you and I, we have much need of making offerings because we have much spiritual growth left to do. >I feel like every time my faith starts to get strong these blasfimus questions and thoughts enter my mind.> Such questions are not blasphemous James. Blasphemy orginates from ill intent towards the Divine and this is not the case here. You are asking questions because your understanding is growing and maturing. >Dont think of me as a wise as*. This is something that causes me much trouble in life.I feal like Im playing mind games with myself. How comforting it must have been for an apostle of christ to be able to ask questions of god in the flesh . The imediate gratification of being able to have a sit down talk with (The so called) Messiah of man kind must have been indescribable. In my visions of Ganesh he never speaks he just looks at me like as to say "I feal you man, its gonna be alright" Its never a conversation. Im sorry to sound like a big cry baby. I just want to know if Im alone in my thinking or if there are others witht the same troubles. Such a tangled mess.> Perhaps you would find it of benefit James to broaden your perspective and understanding of Ganesh. From what I can gather, and this may be wrong of course, but your view of Ganesh is mainly limited to the visual imagery of him and the Puranic accounts of him. I strongly feel that the symbolism has to be understood and the deeper meanings of the sacred texts penetrated. The Puranic accounts of Shiva, Parvati and Ganesh as a family are Divinely metaphysical realities expressed in a way that all people can get something from, even if they have no understanding or knowledge of the more subtle mysteries. This is not to say that Ganesh will not appear in the forms that he is worshipped in, but he is more than this, far more. The form (or forms) of Ganesh are only the tip of his iceberg and the deeper one goes the more enormous that iceberg becomes. >I can pray to Ganesh with Lakshmi on his lap asking for material things or wealthonly to have the same gifts torn from me by the same god. I guess there is a fine line between enjoying life and being attached to it.Ill end this rant now.> New" size="2"> Pray to Ganesh, pray to Lakshmi, but always try expand your understanding of what is being given to you and what should be done with it. The same goes for one’s devotion. >Thanks for listening.> Ditto : ) Om Shanti Neil http://www.geocities.com/aumganesh/ Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 whit,like and dislike. sadly in this world all good things must come to an end, but I will never forget these experiences. It felt like home. Something in me was also recently atracted to Ganesh. He seams to have a very buddha nature to him.Even his outward form gives you a sence of peace. He looks very relaxed, and zen,but totally powerful and in control. Any way thanks for the feadback friend. Om Shanti, James Mark <HANUMAN1960 (AT) AOL (DOT) COM> wrote: Namaste James!I think I know what you are going through. I'm not sure where you're from, but, I think for me, it's part of being raised as a Christian in the USA, that I sometimes think to myself: "God is an elephant?". :)But I realize that this form is only a symbol that represnts a greater reality. I gave up Christianity during college, tried Paganism for about 10 years, and when that didn't pan out, went to Buddhism. But something was missing....I was drawn to Lord Ganesha, but could not "fit" him into my Buddhist cosmology comfortably! It was only after reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda that I realized what was missing......God.I have now given up on Buddhism, and am devoting myself to developing a relationship with Lord Ganesha. Don't feel discouraged! He's right there to help you if you only ask! Good Luck!Om Sri Ganeshaya Namah!!!!!http://www.geocities.com/aumganesh/ Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 12.0pt">Namaste James, 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">>Your words have been like medicine to my mind.> 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">I am pleased if they were of use. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">>I guess I had the wronf impression because Ive heard from many that Ganesh loves sweets and I guess I took it the wrong way ,like it was a desire for sweets.> 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">You are not alone! I think we all make similar interpretations along the way. It seems that one’s understanding starts off by taking these matters in a quite literal sense, but then moves on to a less literal interpretation and starts to look for deeper meanings in the symbolism of the murtis or in the scriptures. We all seem to go from gross to subtle to causal and beyond…eventually! LOL However if one’s understanding does not grow in wisdom we eventually get to the point down the road of a purely literal interpretation and this in turns grows into fundamentalism, hence much of religion across the world today is in a poor state of affairs. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">>You are very correct about my limited knowledge of Ganesh. Most everything Ive learned about him has been on the net.> 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">And the net is full of wonders and gems, it is a treasure chest for sure, but often you just have to know where to dig. For, as I’m sure you know, there is a lot of rubbish on the net too. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">>Is there a text for Ganesh like how Krishna has the Bagavahdgita. I find that most book stores religion/philosophy sections have nothing. I guess I have to be more dilligent and find some books online.> 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">Well, the Bhagavad Gita kind of goes across the board really. Even though Krishna is the main speaker in it he speaks from the point of the impersonal Absolute. Many different Hindu sects hold the Bhagavad Gita as a true gem, not just the Vaishnava sects (on a personal note I wouldn’t recommend the Isckon/Hare Krishna version, As It Is). I don’t know if the ancient Ganapata sects held the BG in high esteem, but I imagine they would have viewed it with high regard. So please don’t think that Bhagavad Gita is only for devotees of Krishna, far from it. The modern book Loving Ganesha would probably be your best bet this now James for a book on Ganesh. This covers many aspects of Ganesh and is easily readable. It is also online, so it is easy to hand at http://www.himalayanacademy.com/books/lg/lg_table_of_contents.html There are also many decent translations of the Gita online as well, should you be interested. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt"> Om Shanti 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">Neil Arial;color:blue"> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> margin-left:54.0pt"> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> margin-left:54.0pt"> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> margin-left:54.0pt"> 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 There is a Ganesh Gita, available in English translation, written in the Middle Ages. It's similar to the Bhagavad Gita, but presented as Ganesha instructing a devotee about reincarnation, Karma, etc. "Loving Ganesha" will refer you to many Puranas that teach about Ganesha. The Mugdala Purana tells about past incarnations of Ganesha, for example. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:33:02 -0000 "Neil Campbell" <pashu writes: > Namaste James, > > >Your words have been like medicine to my mind.> > > I am pleased if they were of use. > > >I guess I had the wronf impression because Ive heard from many that > Ganesh loves sweets and I guess I took it the wrong way ,like it was > a > desire for sweets.> > > You are not alone! I think we all make similar interpretations > along > the way. It seems that one's understanding starts off by taking > these > matters in a quite literal sense, but then moves on to a less > literal > interpretation and starts to look for deeper meanings in the > symbolism > of the murtis or in the scriptures. We all seem to go from gross to > subtle to causal and beyond.eventually! LOL However if one's > understanding does not grow in wisdom we eventually get to the point > down the road of a purely literal interpretation and this in turns > grows > into fundamentalism, hence much of religion across the world today > is in > a poor state of affairs. > > >You are very correct about my limited knowledge of Ganesh. Most > everything Ive learned about him has been on the net.> > > And the net is full of wonders and gems, it is a treasure chest for > sure, but often you just have to know where to dig. For, as I'm > sure > you know, there is a lot of rubbish on the net too. > > >Is there a text for Ganesh like how Krishna has the Bagavahdgita. I > find that most book stores religion/philosophy sections have > nothing. I > guess I have to be more dilligent and find some books online.> > > Well, the Bhagavad Gita kind of goes across the board really. Even > though Krishna is the main speaker in it he speaks from the point of > the > impersonal Absolute. Many different Hindu sects hold the Bhagavad > Gita > as a true gem, not just the Vaishnava sects (on a personal note I > wouldn't recommend the Isckon/Hare Krishna version, As It Is). I > don't > know if the ancient Ganapata sects held the BG in high esteem, but I > imagine they would have viewed it with high regard. So please don't > think that Bhagavad Gita is only for devotees of Krishna, far from > it. > The modern book Loving Ganesha would probably be your best bet this > now > James for a book on Ganesh. This covers many aspects of Ganesh and > is > easily readable. It is also online, so it is easy to hand at > http://www.himalayanacademy.com/books/lg/lg_table_of_contents.html > There are also many decent translations of the Gita online as well, > should you be interested. > > > Om Shanti > > Neil > > > > ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 i would like to comment on what campbell said about the Bhagavad Gita .. it is absoulutely accurate to say that Lord Krishna was speaking from an impersonal point of view, and when he showed Arjuna his four armed form and later all the other forms ..Arjuna was in awe that all was within Lord Krishna and that Lord Krishna is in all of them.. The ISKON version is a very dangerous version of the Bhagavad Gita .. and this is the reason why i saw so .. if u take a look it.. u will notice how that vesion is actually divided into two parts -1) what Lord Krishna said to Arjuna and 2) The purport.. what Prabubada said.. and the reason why i said that the ISKON version is dangerous and unhealhty is that this Prabubada guy has inserted TOO MANY of his own opinions.. for example the definition of demi-Gods.. did Lord Krishna ever told Arjuna that Lord shiva or Goddess lakshmi as a demigod? NO.. NEVER.. but prabubada inserted mostly saivate deities into the demi God category .. ISKON is a religious institution with a very vivid and focus attention towards some political and economical agendas.. ciao tang , "Neil Campbell" <pashu@t...> wrote: > Namaste James, > > >Your words have been like medicine to my mind.> > > I am pleased if they were of use. > > >I guess I had the wronf impression because Ive heard from many that > Ganesh loves sweets and I guess I took it the wrong way ,like it was a > desire for sweets.> > > You are not alone! I think we all make similar interpretations along > the way. It seems that one's understanding starts off by taking these > matters in a quite literal sense, but then moves on to a less literal > interpretation and starts to look for deeper meanings in the symbolism > of the murtis or in the scriptures. We all seem to go from gross to > subtle to causal and beyond.eventually! LOL However if one's > understanding does not grow in wisdom we eventually get to the point > down the road of a purely literal interpretation and this in turns grows > into fundamentalism, hence much of religion across the world today is in > a poor state of affairs. > > >You are very correct about my limited knowledge of Ganesh. Most > everything Ive learned about him has been on the net.> > > And the net is full of wonders and gems, it is a treasure chest for > sure, but often you just have to know where to dig. For, as I'm sure > you know, there is a lot of rubbish on the net too. > > >Is there a text for Ganesh like how Krishna has the Bagavahdgita. I > find that most book stores religion/philosophy sections have nothing. I > guess I have to be more dilligent and find some books online.> > > Well, the Bhagavad Gita kind of goes across the board really. Even > though Krishna is the main speaker in it he speaks from the point of the > impersonal Absolute. Many different Hindu sects hold the Bhagavad Gita > as a true gem, not just the Vaishnava sects (on a personal note I > wouldn't recommend the Isckon/Hare Krishna version, As It Is). I don't > know if the ancient Ganapata sects held the BG in high esteem, but I > imagine they would have viewed it with high regard. So please don't > think that Bhagavad Gita is only for devotees of Krishna, far from it. > The modern book Loving Ganesha would probably be your best bet this now > James for a book on Ganesh. This covers many aspects of Ganesh and is > easily readable. It is also online, so it is easy to hand at > http://www.himalayanacademy.com/books/lg/lg_table_of_contents.html > There are also many decent translations of the Gita online as well, > should you be interested. > > > Om Shanti > > Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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