Intresting Discussion on Sense Of Beauty

[Guest guest]

BEGINNINGS OF LEARNING PART I CHAPTER 8 SCHOOL DIALOGUE BROCKWOOD PARK 7TH

OCTOBER 1971

 

 

Questioner: There is something I'd like to discuss. I see that like and dislike

are a matter of opinion - as what is ugly and what is beautiful - everyone has

their own ideas. If I have no image about things, is there anything beautiful or

ugly?

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti: To like: has that anything to do with affection, with

love?

 

Questioner: No.

 

Krishnamurti: Don't say, no or yes, go into it. And the feeling of beauty,

does it come out of an image? Look at it - don't answer. I see a building

created in space, and I say, `How beautiful that is.' Now that _expression, "How

beautiful", is it born of an image? Or is there no image, but the perception of

something which has proportion, depth, quality, workmanship.

 

Questioner: You have an image of what is beautiful or of what you like: you

are comparing it with something else. Your conditioning comes in.

 

Krishnamurti: That's right. Watch it, it is much more complex than that.

You see that tree - do you say it is beautiful? Why do you say it is beautiful,

who has told you? Or, apart from the images, do you feel from everything a sense

of beauty? - not related to trees, buildings, people. You understand? - the

sense of beauty - not looking at anything particular.

 

Questioner: If you really look, it doesn't only happen with trees.

 

Krishnamurti: You see a building and you say, "How beautiful that is." Is

it because you have compared it with other buildings? - or because it is a

famous building by Wren or the Ancient Greeks and so you say, "What a marvellous

thing that is." Because you have been told about it and there is the image you

have made about the man who built it; and so you comply because the popular

thing to say is, "How beautiful!" Or do you have a sense of beauty irrespective

of anything created or not created? Have you understood my question?

 

Questioner: The sense of beauty has nothing to do with what you see.

 

Krishnamurti: That's just it. The sense of beauty has nothing to do with

what you see outside. Now what is that sense of beauty?

 

Questioner: A state of harmony.

 

Krishnamurti: You are too quick in answering, go into it. What is that

sense of beauty?

 

Questioner: It's vitality.

 

Krishnamurti: It is a little more complex, go into it. As we said just now,

if you have an image either about yourself, or an artist, or a great man, then

that image is going to dictate what is beautiful, depending on the culture, on

the popularity of the artist, or the statue, or the painting, this or that. So

the image you have prevents the sense of beauty, in which there is no image.

 

Questioner: It prevents the very seeing.

 

Krishnamurti: Of course. So, not to have images at all! You follow? - the

image is the `me'. When there is no `me', there is the sense of beauty. Have you

the sense of the `me'? Then, when you say, "That is beautiful", you are just

reacting to the image you have about what is beautiful, which is based on your

literature, on your culture, the pictures, the museums to which you have been

exposed. You can't ever say, "How ugly!" when looking at a painting by Leonardo

da Vinci; or when you are listening to Mozart, "What a noise!" It is really

quite extraordinary: to have no image about oneself is to have this sense of

extraordinary beauty.

 

Questioner: If you listen to some music for the first time and you don't

like it, through repetition you suddenly, or gradually, come to like it.

 

Krishnamurti: Yes, what happens? You don't like Indian music, and you listen to

it three or four times; then you begin to see something in it - not because you

have been told - you listen. That means you are paying attention.

 

Questioner: You were paying attention the first time.

 

Krishnamurti: The first time it was noise.

 

Questioner: You already have a notion what Western music is.

 

Krishnamurti: You are used to Western music and you are suddenly faced with

Chinese music. The first time you couldn't listen to it very carefully, there

was a reaction - you follow? That is why any image, outer or inner, is the

emphasis of the `me', `the ego', the personality, all that; and that absolutely

prevents the quality and the sense of beauty. Which means, passion is not

dependent nor the cause of something.

 

Questioner: If my sense of beauty makes me feel there is no difference

between the beauty of the sun or the beauty of a tree..?

 

Krishnamurti: Wait, I have no image, therefore I have the sense of beauty,

the feeling of beauty. And I see squalor, dirt, filth. I see a piece of paper on

the road. What happens? I pick it up. When I see filth on the road I do

something; socially, I act. I don't say, "I have a sense of beauty, I don't see

that."

 

Questioner: I understand that. My sense of beauty is not destroyed by

whatever goes on. Even if I close my eyes, it is not dependent on seeing.

 

Krishnamurti: Absolutely right. But the sense of that beauty which is yours

is mine also. It is not my sense of beauty or your sense of beauty, or the

collective sense. It is beauty, the sense of beauty. To go into this is

something passionate. It beats all books! But I mustn't say that, because you

must pass exams!