The Power of Lord's Holy Names

[Guest guest]

harE krShNa! AzhwArgaL thiruvadigaLE sharaNam!

 

Dear Sri Ramkumar, very perfectly said and I want to add few more lines.

 

Dear Sri Anoop, anything we follow, must be questioned as, "Why should I do? Why

should I not do?" So the same thing we must apply here and think, "Why should I

chant the holy names of lord hari and this harE krShNa mahA manthram

specifically? Why not other manthrAs 108 times?" The answer is:

 

In kalisantharaNa upanishadh, it is stated:

 

harE krShNa harE krShNa krShNa krShNa harE harE

harE rAma harE rAma rAma rAma harE harE |

ithi shOdashaka nAmnAm kali kalmaSha nAshanam

nAthaha paratharOpAyaha sarva vEdhEshu dhrshyathE ||

(Proof Link:

http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html )

 

"This collection of sixteen names (of lord nArAyaNa) destroys the evils of the

Kali Yuga. There is no, any other effective means (of liberation) if we look in

all sections of the Vedas." - lord brahma to shrI nAradha, in kalisantharaNa

upanishadh.

 

[Note: Some consider first harE rAma and then harE krShNa. And some consider,

first harE krShNa and then harE rAma. However you chant, it doesn't matter and

kindly don't bother too much about this. You will get the same result in

whichever way you chant. To read full history for the reason for reversing,

kindly read in the following link:

http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html ]

 

So it is recommended to chant this at least 16 rounds (108 x 16 rounds) as our

past devotees has specifically stressed "at least 16 rounds are must". And in

general time also, if possible one can continue the same. Or else a person can

always utter the holy names of lord viShNu, as stated in brhadh nAradhIya

purANam:

 

harErnAma harErnAma harErnAmaiva kEvalam |

kalou nAsthi kalou nAsthi kalou nAsthyEva gathiranyatha ||

(Proof Link 1:

http://www.bvashram.org/articles/93/1/Prophecy-of-the-Golden-Age )

(Proof Link 2:

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/aug97/0031.html )

(Proof Link 3:

http://www.sssct.org/Discourses/2004/ramanavami.htm )

 

"In the age of Kali there is no other way to achieve the supreme, other than by

chanting the holy names of Lord Hari. There is no other way, no other way, no

other way."

 

So once if something is stressed for 3 times, one has to take seriously. It is

like "Order! Order! Order!". So kindly do practice continuous chanting of the

holy names of lord hari/viShNu, so that we all can go that undying and

everblissful world where there is no birth, no death, no pains, etc. as

confirmed by lord krShNa in BhagavadhgItha in so many shlOkams:

 

One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does

not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but

attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna. (BhagavadhgIthA 4.9)After attaining Me, the

great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world,

which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection. (

BhagavadhgIthA 8.15) From the highest planet in the material world down to the

lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place.

But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again. (

BhagavadhgIthA 8.16)Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is

transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is

never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as

it is. That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the

supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back in this material

world. ( BhagavadhgIthA8.20-21) Those who know the Supreme Brahman (God) pass

away from the world during the influence of the fiery god, in the light, at an

auspicious moment, during the fortnight of the moon and the six months when the

sun travels in the north, never returns in this material world. ( BhagavadhgIthA

8.24)One who is free from illusion, false prestige, and false association, who

understands the eternal, who is done with material lust and is freed from the

duality of happiness and distress, and who knows how to surrender unto the

Supreme Person, attains to that eternal kingdom. That abode of Mine is not

illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never

returns to this material world. ( BhagavadhgIthA 15.5-6)

 

So initially, continuously chanting may be bit difficult and you may find cuts

or gaps in between the chants. But once you practice this activity for just 1

to 2 months continuously, your chanting comes automatically with your breath.

Try to concentrate on the chanting. If not possible, don't get frustrated.

 

Because in shrImadhBhAgavatham 1.1.14, it is stated, "Living beings who are

entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed immediately

by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krishna, which is feared by fear

personified."

(Proof Link:

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/1/14/en)

 

So I request everyone to chant on the holy names of lord krShNa and harE krShNa

mahA manthram and just depend primarily on these two, instead of depending on

any other means for any kinds of solutions.

 

- Balaji - The Servant of Devotees!

[Guest guest]

to Gaudiya Vaishnava and their beliefs and practices, adiyen beg to differ with

you in requesting followers from other schools of Vaishnavam, especially Sri

Vaishnavas, to chant different mantras. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. Sampath Kumar

Padmanaban Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar Thiruvadikale Saranam Jeeyar

Thiruvadikale Saranam Balaji A <balajimails > wrote: harE krShNa!

AzhwArgaL thiruvadigaLE sharaNam!

none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin:

initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; text-align: justify;"> Dear

Sri Ramkumar, very perfectly said and I want to add few more lines. Dear Sri

Anoop, anything we follow, must be questioned as, "Why should I do? Why should I

not do?" So the same thing we must apply here and think, "Why should I chant the

holy names of lord hari and this harE krShNa mahA manthram specifically? Why not

other manthrAs 108 times?" The answer is: In kalisantharaNa upanishadh, it is

stated: harE krShNa harE krShNa krShNa krShNa harE harE harE rAma harE

rAma rAma rAma harE harE | ithi shOdashaka nAmnAm kali kalmaSha nAshanam

repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin:

initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; text-align: justify;">nAthaha

paratharOpAyaha sarva vEdhEshu dhrshyathE || (Proof Link:

http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html )

Arial;"> "This collection of sixteen names (of lord nArAyaNa) destroys the

evils of the Kali Yuga. There is no, any other effective means (of liberation)

if we look in all sections of the Vedas." - lord brahma to shrI nAradha, in

kalisantharaNa upanishadh.

-moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial;

-moz-background-inline-policy: initial; text-align: justify;"> [Note: Some

consider first harE rAma and then harE krShNa. And some consider, first harE

krShNa and then harE rAma. However you chant, it doesn't matter and kindly

don't bother too much about this. You will get the same result in whichever way

you chant. To read full history for the reason for reversing, kindly read in the

following link: http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html ] So

it is recommended to chant this at least 16 rounds (108 x 16 rounds) as our

past devotees has specifically stressed "at least

16 rounds are must". And in general time also, if possible one can continue the

same. Or else a person can always utter the holy names of lord viShNu, as

stated in brhadh nAradhIya purANam: harErnAma harErnAma harErnAmaiva kEvalam

|

0pt; background: white none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial;

-moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;

text-align: justify;">kalou nAsthi kalou nAsthi kalou nAsthyEva gathiranyatha

|| (Proof Link 1:

http://www.bvashram.org/articles/93/1/Prophecy-of-the-Golden-Age

102);">) (Proof Link 2: http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/aug97/0031.html )

ms">(Proof Link 3: http://www.sssct.org/Discourses/2004/ramanavami.htm ) "In

the age of Kali there is no other way to achieve the supreme, other than by

chanting the holy names of Lord Hari. There is no other way, no other way, no

other way." So once if something is stressed for 3 times, one has to take

seriously. It is like "Order! Order! Order!". So kindly do practice continuous

chanting of the holy names of lord

hari/viShNu, so that we all can go that undying and everblissful world where

there is no birth, no death, no pains, etc. as confirmed by lord krShNa in

BhagavadhgItha in so many shlOkams: One who knows the transcendental nature

of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth

again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.

(BhagavadhgIthA 4.9)After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in

devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries,

because they have attained the highest perfection. ( BhagavadhgIthA 8.15) From

the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of

misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My

abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again. ( BhagavadhgIthA 8.16)Yet there

is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and

unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this

world is annihilated, that part remains as it is. That supreme abode is called

unmanifested and infallible, and it is the supreme destination. When one goes

there, he never

comes back in this material world. ( BhagavadhgIthA8.20-21) Those who know the

Supreme Brahman (God) pass away from the world during the influence of the

fiery god, in the light, at an auspicious moment, during the fortnight of the

moon and the six months when the sun travels in the north, never returns in

this material world. ( BhagavadhgIthA 8.24)One who is free from illusion, false

prestige, and false association, who understands the eternal, who is done with

material lust and is freed from the duality of happiness and distress, and who

knows how to surrender unto the Supreme Person, attains to that eternal

kingdom. That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by

electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world. (

BhagavadhgIthA

15.5-6) So initially, continuously chanting may be bit difficult and you may

find cuts or gaps in between the chants. But once you practice this activity

for just 1 to 2 months continuously, your chanting comes automatically with

your breath. Try to concentrate on the chanting. If not possible, don't get

frustrated.

0pt; background: white none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial;

-moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;

text-align: justify;"> Because in shrImadhBhAgavatham 1.1.14, it is stated,

"Living beings who are entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death

can be freed immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of

Krishna, which is feared by fear personified." (Proof Link:

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/1/14/en) So I request everyone to chant on the

holy names of lord krShNa and harE krShNa mahA manthram and just depend

primarily on these two, instead of depending on any other means for any kinds

of solutions. - Balaji - The Servant of Devotees!

Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

harE krShNa! AzhwArgaL thiruvadigaLE sharaNam!

 

Dear Sri Sampath Kumar Padmanaban Swami,

 

My humble praNAms to you. Thanks for your involvement. Actually up to now I do

not belong to any sampradhAyams, but just follow strict vEdhic injunctions

given by lord viShNu, his forms and his devotees, whether they be in South

India or North India or even let the devotees be Westerns. So whatever lord

krShNa and his pure devotees says, I will try to follow. So I am not

specifically pointing to any vaiShNava sampradhAyams.

 

So if the vEdhic scriptures (which is written by shrI vEdha vyAsa) or lord

viShNu is telling something then it is our duty to follow. So if one who

doesn't follow the words of our ultimate and supreme father - lord viShNu, what

is the use of being called as a 'devotee or vaiShNava'. vaiShNava means one who

follows lord viShNu (means lord viShNu's instructions).

 

And anything we speak must with scriptural references and authorized verses of

our AchAryAs. You have stated:

 

Anything not mentioned or accepted by them is not only to be against your own

acharyas, but that practice would be fruitless.

 

You are right. But the chanting of harE krShNa mahA manthram is clearly

mentioned in the vEdhic scriptures (that too at this age of kali). So it is not

at all against our AchAryAs. And take it granted that those who oppose the

chanting of this harE krShNa mahA manthram cannot be an AchArya. What to speak

of AchArya, he cannot be called even as a human being. Because opposers of lord

krShNa's names are considered as demons according to vEdhic scriptures.

 

In last sentence, you have also told:

 

Requesting followers from other schools of Vaishnavam, especially Sri

Vaishnavas, to chant different mantras.

 

When our beloved 'mother' shrI rAmAnujAchArya and shrI annamaAchArya themself

gave 'devotional rights' to everyone, why are you concentrating on single

category called 'shrI vaiShNavam'? You have to address to every one to chant

different manthrAs of lord viShNu. And I have never asked anyone to stop other

manthrAs. I just requested to chant harE krShNa mahA manthram and the holy

names of lord hari.

 

So my request is kindly don't differentiate from one vaiShNava to another

vaiShNava. These different sampradhAyams are different ways to reach vaikunTam.

And no where stated that each sampradhAyam has its own different manthram to

reach vaikunTam. So if anything like this stated, I am ready to accept it.

Kindly provide me scriptural proofs or authorized verses stating, "There are

different manthrAs for each sampradhAyam". So that even I can learn to

differente between one vaiShNava to another vaiShNava.

 

In a nutshell, I want to notify once again what I meant:

 

1) Chant harE krShNa mahA manthram (or harE rAmA mahA manthram...whatever it may

be) as stated in vEdhic scriptures.

2) Chant the holy names of lord hari continously as stated in vEdhic scriptures.

3) I never asked anyone to stop chanting other manthrAs of lord viShNu.

4) I am not at all specific to any sampradhAyAs and it is in general to all humans.

5) I never want to discourage any sampradhAyams because if we dig back and find

the leader of each sampradhAya, they will be our own beloved mother lakShmi

(shrI sampradhAya), lord krShNa (gaudIya sampradhAya), lord shiva (rudhra

sampradhAya...who are also devotees of lord viShNu), etc. So I love all the

vaiShNavAs.

 

So if I was wrong any where or against scriptures and authorized verses, I

humbly request to point out them so that I can learn the perfect path of

achieving the holy feet of lord viShNu.

 

My great thanks to Sri Sampath Kumar Padmanaban Swami for raising this

devotional topic. My humble praNAms to him for making me to think of mother

lakShmi, lord viShNu and other vaiShNavAs.

 

Let us discuss more on the divine topics of lord viShNu so that we get the real knowledge.

 

- Balaji - The Servant of Devotees!

 

 

On 2/15/06, Sampath Kumar Padmanaban <janasampath > wrote:

Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: Srimath Varavara Munaye Nama: Dear Sri.

Balaji Swamin,

Kindly accept adiyen's humble pranams. It is beyound doubt and with no

ambiguity vedas and upanishads have specified the supremacy of Sriman

Narayanan. It is also clear that the means to attain Him is only Him. And

chanting His divine names (which are nothing but His auspicious qualities)

must be the only past time of all the chetanas.

Having stated this, it is well known to all of us that the various vaishnava

sampradhayams have different variations of approaches and put emphasis on

different mantrams and practices. In this regard, the Hare Krishna mantram is

something Sri Vaishnavas do not follow. In each school, our poorvacharyas have

prescribed us specific steps to be followed. Anything not mentioned or accepted

by them is not only to be against your own acharyas, but that practice would be

fruitless. Hence, with due respect to Gaudiya Vaishnava and their beliefs and

practices, adiyen beg to differ with you in requesting followers from other

schools of Vaishnavam, especially Sri Vaishnavas, to chant different mantras.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan.Sampath Kumar Padmanaban Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar

Thiruvadikale Saranam Jeeyar Thiruvadikale SaranamBalaji A <

balajimails > wrote: harE krShNa! AzhwArgaL thiruvadigaLE

sharaNam!Dear Sri Ramkumar, very perfectly said and I want to add few more

lines.Dear Sri Anoop, anything we follow, must be questioned as, "Why should I

do? Why should I not do?" So the same thing we must apply here and think,

"Why should I chant the holy names of lord hari and this harE krShNa mahA

manthram specifically? Why not other manthrAs 108 times?" The answer is:

In kalisantharaNa upanishadh, it is stated:harE krShNa harE krShNa krShNa krShNa

harE harEharE rAma harE rAma rAma rAma harE harE |ithi shOdashaka nAmnAm kali

kalmaSha nAshanamnAthaha paratharOpAyaha sarva vEdhEshu dhrshyathE ||

(Proof Link: http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html )"This

collection of sixteen names (of lord nArAyaNa) destroys the evils of the Kali

Yuga. There is no, any other effective means (of liberation) if we look in all

sections of the Vedas." - lord brahma to shrI nAradha, in kalisantharaNa

upanishadh.

[Note: Some consider first harE rAma and then harE krShNa. And some consider,

first harE krShNa and then harE rAma. However you chant, it doesn't matter and

kindly don't bother too much about this. You will get the same result in

whichever way you chant. To read full history for the reason for reversing,

kindly read in the following link:

http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jan/msg00223.html ]So it is

recommended to chant this at least 16 rounds (108 x 16 rounds) as our past

devotees has specifically stressed "at least 16 rounds are must". And in

general time also, if possible one can continue the same. Or else a person can

always utter the holy names of lord viShNu, as stated in brhadh nAradhIya

purANam:

harErnAma harErnAma harErnAmaiva kEvalam |kalou nAsthi kalou nAsthi kalou

nAsthyEva gathiranyatha ||(Proof Link 1:

http://www.bvashram.org/articles/93/1/Prophecy-of-the-Golden-Age

)(Proof Link 2: http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/aug97/0031.html

)(Proof Link 3:

http://www.sssct.org/Discourses/2004/ramanavami.htm )"In the age of Kali there

is no other way to achieve the supreme, other than by chanting the holy names

of Lord Hari. There is no other way, no other way, no other way."

So once if something is stressed for 3 times, one has to take seriously. It is

like "Order! Order! Order!". So kindly do practice continuous chanting of the

holy names of lord hari/viShNu, so that we all can go that undying and

everblissful world where there is no birth, no death, no pains, etc. as

confirmed by lord krShNa in BhagavadhgItha in so many shlOkams:

One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does

not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but

attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna. (BhagavadhgIthA 4.9)

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to

this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the

highest perfection. ( BhagavadhgIthA 8.15)

>From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are

places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who

attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again. ( BhagavadhgIthA

8.16)Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to

this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never

annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it

is. That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the

supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back in this material

world. ( BhagavadhgIthA8.20-21)Those who know the Supreme Brahman (God) pass

away from the world during the influence of the fiery god, in the light, at an

auspicious moment, during the fortnight of the moon and the six months when the

sun travels in the north, never returns in this material world. (

BhagavadhgIthA 8.24)One who is free from illusion, false prestige, and false

association, who understands the eternal, who is done with material lust and

is freed from the duality of happiness and distress, and who knows how to

surrender unto the Supreme Person, attains to that eternal kingdom. That abode

of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who

reaches it never returns to this material world. ( BhagavadhgIthA 15.5-6)So

initially, continuously chanting may be bit difficult and you may find cuts or

gaps in between the chants. But once you practice this activity for just 1 to 2

months continuously, your chanting comes automatically with your breath. Try to

concentrate on the chanting. If not possible, don't get frustrated.

Because in shrImadhBhAgavatham 1.1.14, it is stated, "Living beings who are

entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed

immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krishna, which is

feared by fear personified."

(Proof Link: http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/1/14/en)So I request everyone to

chant on the holy names of lord krShNa and harE krShNa mahA manthram and just

depend primarily on these two, instead of depending on any other means for any

kinds of solutions.

- Balaji - The Servant of Devotees! Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE

Saranamhttp://www.vedics.net

[Guest guest]

Sri Balaji,

 

Let me at the outset state that I have close association with several

Gaudiya Vaishnava devotees and have spent virtually all my life

frequenting our local ISKCON temple. Indeed, I probably speak for many

Sri Vaishnavas when I say that the Gaudiya Vaishnavas were the first to

guide me back to serving the devotee's of the Supreme Being with a

proper understanding of Sri Sampradayam and philosophy.

 

Be that as it may, I would have to be the first to admit some subtle

points of difference between the two schools, especially when it comes

to the recitation of mantras - let us leave aside what mantra should be

recited for the moment. Sri Mukundan has already explained this

position in some detail, but I thought it worthwhile to attempt to

clarify the it further. The Gaudiya Vaishnavas, following the

recommended practice of Kalisantharana Upanishad, recite the Hare Krsna

mahamantra, seeing its recitation as a means to salvation. This

position suggests that there is an upayam, a means, different from the

Lord, that one can undertake to achieve salvation. Yet, at the same

time, all Vaishnavas hold the truth that He is the Supreme Being. His

Supremacy would imply, at least from the Sri Vaishnava perspective, that

Sriman Narayana is the only True Independent Being, Who is completely

free to bestow salvation on any one any time that He chooses, without

any condition or prequalification on the part of the soul. This leads

to a paradox - we say that God is Supreme and at the same time say that

there is way to win His favor so that we reach Him. And, it is in an

effort to clear up this paradox that the Thenkalais are not fully

accepting of the idea that doing so many rounds of japa so many times a

day will lead us to Salvation. I suppose that one way that ISKCON

reconciles this paradox is by saying that the Holy Name is not different

from the Lord, so His Saving Grace is as much a part the Nature of His

Name as much as it is a part of Him.

 

But, from the Sri Vaishnava perspective, there are three mantras that

can be meditated upon that do not inherently hold this paradox. These

three mantras are the Thirumantram, Dvayam, and Charama Slokam, and it

is really not in their recitation, but rather in contemplating upon

their meaning, that the "power" of these mantras takes effect in our

being. For according to the myriad of Acharyas that have contemplated

upon them, all three of these mantras emphatically state that our Sole

Protector and Saviour is Sriman Narayana Alone. Ours is only to accept

this Truth, and this too comes about because of His Efforts to reach us.

 

So, while we are not opposed to any mantra, especially those that are

dedicated to Sriman Narayana, the point of contention presented by the

Sri Sampradaya lies only in the need for ritualistic recitation to them

in an effort to achieve redemption through self-effort.

 

adiyen

[Guest guest]

that LET us Follow our Acharyas rather than DO new things esplly in the matter

of reaching the LORDS abode finally

 

Swamin--- your point is well taken and that is the Quintessance of our Sampradaya actually

 

Azhwar Emberumanar Jeer Thiruvadigale Charanam

AANDAL thiruvadigale Charanam

 

Adiyen

Parthasarathi dasan

On 2/17/06, Mohan Sagar <madhuriandmohan (AT) toast (DOT) net> wrote:

Sri Balaji,Let me at the outset state that I have close association with

severalGaudiya Vaishnava devotees and have spent virtually all my life

frequenting our local ISKCON temple. Indeed, I probably speak for manySri

Vaishnavas when I say that the Gaudiya Vaishnavas were the first toguide me

back to serving the devotee's of the Supreme Being with a

proper understanding of Sri Sampradayam and philosophy.Be that as it may, I

would have to be the first to admit some subtlepoints of difference between the

two schools, especially when it comesto the recitation of mantras - let us leave

aside what mantra should be

recited for the moment. Sri Mukundan has already explained thisposition in some

detail, but I thought it worthwhile to attempt toclarify the it further. The

Gaudiya Vaishnavas, following therecommended practice of Kalisantharana

Upanishad, recite the Hare Krsna

mahamantra, seeing its recitation as a means to salvation. Thisposition

suggests that there is an upayam, a means, different from theLord, that one can

undertake to achieve salvation. Yet, at the sametime, all Vaishnavas hold the

truth that He is the Supreme Being. His

Supremacy would imply, at least from the Sri Vaishnava perspective, thatSriman

Narayana is the only True Independent Being, Who is completelyfree to bestow

salvation on any one any time that He chooses, without

any condition or prequalification on the part of the soul. This leadsto a

paradox - we say that God is Supreme and at the same time say thatthere is way

to win His favor so that we reach Him. And, it is in an

effort to clear up this paradox that the Thenkalais are not fullyaccepting of

the idea that doing so many rounds of japa so many times aday will lead us to

Salvation. I suppose that one way that ISKCONreconciles this paradox is by

saying that the Holy Name is not different

from the Lord, so His Saving Grace is as much a part the Nature of HisName as

much as it is a part of Him.But, from the Sri Vaishnava perspective, there are

three mantras thatcan be meditated upon that do not inherently hold this

paradox. These

three mantras are the Thirumantram, Dvayam, and Charama Slokam, and itis really

not in their recitation, but rather in contemplating upontheir meaning, that

the "power" of these mantras takes effect in our

being. For according to the myriad of Acharyas that have contemplatedupon them,

all three of these mantras emphatically state that our SoleProtector and Saviour

is Sriman Narayana Alone. Ours is only to accept

this Truth, and this too comes about because of His Efforts to reach us.So,

while we are not opposed to any mantra, especially those that arededicated to

Sriman Narayana, the point of contention presented by the

Sri Sampradaya lies only in the need for ritualistic recitation to themin an

effort to achieve redemption through self-effort.adiyenAzhvar EmberumAnAr

JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam

http://www.vedics.net! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go

to: ramanuja/<*> To from this

group, send an email to:

ramanuja<*> Your use of is subject

to:

-- Regards B.R.Parthasarathi

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

I have been following this thread on the power of the

Lord's Holy Names for sometimes. Sri Mohan Sagar has

presented the Sri Vaishnava view, either wholly or

partly, in terms of kalai opinions, in an accurate

manner. However with all due respect to him, his view

of the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint has been

simplisitic. Perhaps the fault does not lie with him,

since this is a forum to discuss Sri Vaishnavism. I

shall not go into the details of the Gaudiya Vaishnava

siddhanta related to nama-tattva on this forum and end

up being deemed irrelevant.

 

However, I wish to only state the following:

 

1. Nama-tattva is a subject that fills volumes of

Gaudiya Vaishnava literature and to summarise just one

side to things, based on one's own reading of one

statement, will not do justice.

 

2. There are different stages of nama japa and kirtana

and the moods differ in terms of the spiritual

maturity of the sadhaka in terms of kanistha

(neophyte), madhyama (middle) and uttama (topmost). As

such, the views of the Holy Names of the Lord are

relative in this regard.

 

3. In the ultimate issue, albeit differences of

semantics, the GV school also says that the recitation

of the Lord's Names is not representative of any

external means. It is done purely for His pleasure

only. But for the conditioned souls who see things as

a matter of sadhana and sadhya or means and end, the

Name functions in that way. But in the ultimate issue,

the Name is the means and end for in reciting It, only

the Lord's pleasure is the purpose.

 

The Nama in the ultimate issue while appearing to be

an external sadhana for the conditioned soul, is

ultimately the internal sadhya as well because in the

liberated state, one is doing the same function of

reciting the Names in a spontaneous manner in loving

the Lord. In vaidhi bhakti, rounds are fixed. In raga

bhakti or spontaneous devotion, the name is uttered in

spontaneous joy in full realisation of Its none

difference from the Lord Himself. The emphatic claim

to The Name being the means does not exclude It from

being the end and internally the Lord and the Lord's

pleasure potency as well. Ultimately, it is the Lord's

choice to grant salvation or love of Godhead. But on

the basis of the Acharya's guarantee, one who properly

does the sadhana with faith will come to the platform

of understanding all these issues. So essentially, no

one is saying that parrot-like chanting is a demand

that the Lord will fulfil to give salvation or

devotion. But, when one takes up the process with

faith, then based on the Vaishnava's assurance, the

Lord out of His love for His devotees' words, if He

pleases, helps the sadhaka realise and progress to

chanting the Names only for His pleasure.

I am aware of certain differences between

Visishtadvaita and Achintya-bedha-abedha in

understanding the internal potency of the Lord

vis-a-vis His Name, form, qualities, pastimes, etc.

 

Let us remember that when Srila Prabhupada was ill, he

told his disciples to pray to Lord Nrsimha that "My

Dear Lord, IF YOU SO DESIRE, please help our spiritual

master in executing his will to please You for his

work is unfinished." So besides so much semantic

wrangling, I think it is important to note that Nama

tattva in both schools, is not a matter of just one

slant and one strand but covers substantial

literatures that are not exhaustive by any means.

 

For further accurate information of the GV view,

please read Srila Prabhupada's purports as well as

books such as Hari-nama-chintamani,

Sri-bhajana-rahasya, etc, by Srila Bhaktivinode

Thakura and other books by earlier acharyas. It's not

much of a use speculating based on some personal

understanding of just a few strands of quotations on a

forum external to the sampradaya in focus here.

 

I think it is best to represent one's sampradaya

properly but one should not speak for another line in

half-truth, without knowing the entire gamut of the

issue from the side of the other. And especially

speaking thus in an open forum meant only to

thoroughly discuss one of the sampradayas would mean

limited response with limited options for members of

the other sampradayas in replying and explaining, as

well as possible blurring of full reality by the

overpowering collective views of those affiliated with

the forum and its representative sampradaya.

 

I would likewise urge those posting to keep

discussions to the Sri Vaishnava line. If any views

are sought of the GV position, please send postings to

groups such as achintya. Please do not

cross-post just to pit one against another and do

comparative studies. This is not a comparative forum

in a thoroughly neutral exhaustive sense. The

comparative element is basically the discretion of the

individual but he or she should get each sampradaya's

views from the respective sampradaya adherents and

figure things out for himself / herself.

It should not be the business of sampradaya-based

forums to critically discuss comparative issues in a

forum which is not equally represented by adherents of

the sampradaya whose views are being placed under

scrutiny. There is no option for a well-represented

counter voice. It is basically akin to heralding one's

own superiority in one's own backyard based on one's

own frameworks. It does not present anything

accurately or neutrally or holistically.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

ys

r. jai simman

jakarta

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Balaji's mail. Hoewever, this mail from Sri. Ranagasamy sets the tone as if Sri

Vaishnava members are making half truth statements about other sampradhayas.

This is not true. This chain of email started becuase of a request from a

member belonging to GV sampradhyam requesting every one to chant certain number

of times a mantra for salvation. We merely stated Sri Vaishnava view point as a

response. There is no denial or refutal of any other view points. None of the

Sri Vaishnava members made any critical comment about why GVs are following

certain procedures. That is something outside of Sri Vaishnava sampradhayam and

we are not interested in that. Period. Hence, the recommandations by Sri.

Rangasamy to read certain literature of that sampradhaym is irrelevant and also

statements like Sri Vaishnava members initiating comments about other

sampradhyam in Sri Vaishnava forums and trying to establish someone's

superiority in one's own backyard are

all unwarrented. Each sampradhaym has its own unique procedures and beliefs. It

is with utmost humbless Sri Vaishnavas respect that. Let us just try to follow

what our poorvacharyas have stated rather tham cross questioning some one else.

Kindly accept my appologies for any mistakes from my part in initiating this

chain of mails. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. "Jai Simman R. Rangasamy"

<rjsimman > wrote: Hare Krishna. I have been following this thread

on the power of the Lord's Holy Names for sometimes. Sri Mohan Sagar has

presented the Sri Vaishnava view, either wholly or partly, in terms of kalai

opinions, in an accurate manner. However with all due respect to him, his view

of the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint has been simplisitic. Perhaps

the fault does not lie with him, since this is a forum to discuss Sri

Vaishnavism. I shall not go into the details of the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta

related to nama-tattva on this forum and end up being deemed irrelevant.

However, I wish to only state the following: 1. Nama-tattva is a subject that

fills volumes of Gaudiya Vaishnava literature and to summarise just one side to

things, based on one's own reading of one statement, will not do justice. 2.

There are different stages of nama japa and kirtana and the moods differ in

terms of the spiritual maturity of the sadhaka in terms of kanistha (neophyte),

madhyama (middle) and uttama (topmost). As such, the views of the Holy Names of

the Lord are relative in this regard. 3. In the ultimate issue, albeit

differences of semantics, the GV school also says that the recitation of the

Lord's Names is not representative of

any external means. It is done purely for His pleasure only. But for the

conditioned souls who see things as a matter of sadhana and sadhya or means and

end, the Name functions in that way. But in the ultimate issue, the Name is the

means and end for in reciting It, only the Lord's pleasure is the purpose.

The Nama in the ultimate issue while appearing to be an external sadhana for

the conditioned soul, is ultimately the internal sadhya as well because in the

liberated state, one is doing the same function of reciting the Names in a

spontaneous manner in loving the Lord. In vaidhi bhakti, rounds are fixed. In

raga bhakti or spontaneous devotion, the name is uttered in spontaneous joy in

full realisation of Its none difference from the Lord Himself. The emphatic

claim to The Name being the means does not exclude It from being the end and

internally the Lord and the Lord's pleasure potency

as well. Ultimately, it is the Lord's choice to grant salvation or love of

Godhead. But on the basis of the Acharya's guarantee, one who properly does the

sadhana with faith will come to the platform of understanding all these issues.

So essentially, no one is saying that parrot-like chanting is a demand that the

Lord will fulfil to give salvation or devotion. But, when one takes up the

process with faith, then based on the Vaishnava's assurance, the Lord out of

His love for His devotees' words, if He pleases, helps the sadhaka realise and

progress to chanting the Names only for His pleasure. I am aware of certain

differences between Visishtadvaita and Achintya-bedha-abedha in understanding

the internal potency of the Lord vis-a-vis His Name, form, qualities, pastimes,

etc. Let us remember that when Srila Prabhupada was ill, he told his disciples

to pray to Lord Nrsimha that "My Dear

Lord, IF YOU SO DESIRE, please help our spiritual master in executing his will

to please You for his work is unfinished." So besides so much semantic

wrangling, I think it is important to note that Nama tattva in both schools, is

not a matter of just one slant and one strand but covers substantial literatures

that are not exhaustive by any means. For further accurate information of the

GV view, please read Srila Prabhupada's purports as well as books such as

Hari-nama-chintamani, Sri-bhajana-rahasya, etc, by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura

and other books by earlier acharyas. It's not much of a use speculating based

on some personal understanding of just a few strands of quotations on a forum

external to the sampradaya in focus here. I think it is best to represent

one's sampradaya properly but one should not speak for another line in

half-truth, without knowing the entire gamut of the issue from the side of the

other. And especially speaking thus in an open forum meant only to thoroughly

discuss one of the sampradayas would mean limited response with limited options

for members of the other sampradayas in replying and explaining, as well as

possible blurring of full reality by the overpowering collective views of those

affiliated with the forum and its representative sampradaya. I would likewise

urge those posting to keep discussions to the Sri Vaishnava line. If any views

are sought of the GV position, please send postings to groups such as

achintya. Please do not cross-post just to pit one against

another and do comparative studies. This is not a comparative forum in a

thoroughly neutral exhaustive sense. The comparative element is basically the

discretion of the individual but he or she should get each sampradaya's views

from the respective sampradaya

adherents and figure things out for himself / herself. It should not be the

business of sampradaya-based forums to critically discuss comparative issues in

a forum which is not equally represented by adherents of the sampradaya whose

views are being placed under scrutiny. There is no option for a

well-represented counter voice. It is basically akin to heralding one's own

superiority in one's own backyard based on one's own frameworks. It does not

present anything accurately or neutrally or holistically. Hare Krishna ys r.

jai simman jakarta Do You

?

Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

While I understand and appreciate the

moderators' open state of mind to include these kinds of discussions, I request

the Gaudiya Vaishnava brothers to kindly keep in mind that this is a

Srivaishnava forum primarily, and ofcourse, they are free to discuss their

understandings and concerns in their own multitudes of fora. I request Sri

Jaysimhan swamin to consider his own idea. adiyEn, Kidambi Soundararajan.

AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam. Sampath Kumar Padmanaban

<janasampath > wrote: Sri:Dear Bhagavathas,Pranams.

Since adiyen was the first one to respond to Sri. Balaji's original posting on

this subject, adiyen feel a neccessity to respond to the present state on the

subject. In all the earlier emails, including Sri. Mohan swamin's mail, there

were no statements made about GV sampradhayam. None of the members belonging to

the Sri Vaishnava samprahdayam intend to make any such statements about other

sampradhayams, especially GV. Infact Sri. Mohan swamin, very humbly

acknowledged the fact the GV sampradhayam influenced his life. The main point

stressed by members of the Sri Vaishnava sampradhayam is very simple. "We Sri

Vaishnavas do not consider nama samkirtanam as a means for salvation. Hence we

do not agree to the rituals of chanting a prescribed number of times certain

mantras, what ever that mantra be". This in simple terms is the response

provided to Sri. Balaji's mail.Hoewever, this mail from Sri. Ranagasamy sets

the tone as if Sri Vaishnava members are making half truth statements about

other sampradhayas. This is not true. This chain of email started becuase of a

request from a member belonging to GV sampradhyam requesting every one to chant

certain number of times a mantra for salvation. We merely stated Sri Vaishnava

view point as a response. There is no denial or refutal of any other view

points. None of the Sri Vaishnava members made any critical comment about why

GVs are following certain procedures. That is something outside of Sri

Vaishnava sampradhayam and we are not interested in that. Period. Hence, the

recommandations by Sri. Rangasamy to read certain literature of that

sampradhaym is irrelevant and also statements like Sri Vaishnava members

initiating comments about other sampradhyam in Sri Vaishnava forums and trying

to establish someone's superiority in one's own backyard are all unwarrented.

Each sampradhaym has its own unique procedures and beliefs. It is with

utmost humbless Sri Vaishnavas respect that. Let us just try to follow what our

poorvacharyas have stated rather tham cross questioning some one else.Kindly

accept my appologies for any mistakes from my part in initiating this chain of

mails.AdiyenRamanuja Dasan."Jai Simman R. Rangasamy" <rjsimman >

wrote: Hare Krishna.I have been following this thread on the power of theLord's

Holy Names for sometimes. Sri Mohan Sagar haspresented the Sri Vaishnava view,

either wholly orpartly, in terms of kalai opinions, in an accuratemanner.

However with all due respect to him, his viewof the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint

has beensimplisitic. Perhaps the fault does not lie with him,since this is a

forum to discuss Sri Vaishnavism. Ishall not go into the details of the Gaudiya

Vaishnavasiddhanta related to nama-tattva on this forum and endup being deemed

irrelevant.However, I wish to only state the following: 1. Nama-tattva is a

subject that fills volumes ofGaudiya Vaishnava literature and to summarise just

oneside to things, based on one's own reading of onestatement, will not do

justice.2. There are different stages of nama japa and kirtanaand the moods

differ in terms of the spiritualmaturity of the sadhaka in terms of

kanistha(neophyte), madhyama (middle) and uttama (topmost). Assuch, the views

of the Holy Names of the Lord arerelative in this regard.3. In the ultimate

issue, albeit differences ofsemantics, the GV school also says that the

recitationof the Lord's Names is not representative of anyexternal means. It is

done purely for His pleasureonly. But for the conditioned souls who see things

asa matter of sadhana and sadhya or means and end, theName

functions in that way. But in the ultimate issue,the Name is the means and end

for in reciting It, onlythe Lord's pleasure is the purpose. The Nama in the

ultimate issue while appearing to bean external sadhana for the conditioned

soul, isultimately the internal sadhya as well because in theliberated state,

one is doing the same function ofreciting the Names in a spontaneous manner in

lovingthe Lord. In vaidhi bhakti, rounds are fixed. In ragabhakti or

spontaneous devotion, the name is uttered inspontaneous joy in full realisation

of Its nonedifference from the Lord Himself. The emphatic claimto The Name being

the means does not exclude It frombeing the end and internally the Lord and the

Lord'spleasure potency as well. Ultimately, it is the Lord'schoice to grant

salvation or love of Godhead. But onthe basis of the Acharya's guarantee, one

who properlydoes the sadhana with faith will come to the platformof

understanding all these issues. So essentially, noone is saying that parrot-like

chanting is a demandthat the Lord will fulfil to give salvation ordevotion. But,

when one takes up the process withfaith, then based on the Vaishnava's

assurance, theLord out of His love for His devotees' words, if Hepleases, helps

the sadhaka realise and progress tochanting the Names only for His pleasure.I am

aware of certain differences betweenVisishtadvaita and Achintya-bedha-abedha

inunderstanding the internal potency of the Lordvis-a-vis His Name, form,

qualities, pastimes, etc.Let us remember that when Srila Prabhupada was ill,

hetold his disciples to pray to Lord Nrsimha that "MyDear Lord, IF YOU SO

DESIRE, please help our spiritualmaster in executing his will to please You for

hiswork is unfinished." So besides so much semanticwrangling, I think it is

important to note that Namatattva in both schools, is not a matter of

just oneslant and one strand but covers substantialliteratures that are not

exhaustive by any means.For further accurate information of the GV view,please

read Srila Prabhupada's purports as well asbooks such as

Hari-nama-chintamani,Sri-bhajana-rahasya, etc, by Srila BhaktivinodeThakura and

other books by earlier acharyas. It's notmuch of a use speculating based on some

personalunderstanding of just a few strands of quotations on aforum external to

the sampradaya in focus here.I think it is best to represent one's

sampradayaproperly but one should not speak for another line inhalf-truth,

without knowing the entire gamut of theissue from the side of the other. And

especiallyspeaking thus in an open forum meant only tothoroughly discuss one of

the sampradayas would meanlimited response with limited options for members

ofthe other sampradayas in replying and explaining, aswell as possible blurring

of

full reality by theoverpowering collective views of those affiliated withthe

forum and its representative sampradaya.I would likewise urge those posting to

keepdiscussions to the Sri Vaishnava line. If any viewsare sought of the GV

position, please send postings togroups such as achintya.

Please do notcross-post just to pit one against another and docomparative

studies. This is not a comparative forumin a thoroughly neutral exhaustive

sense. Thecomparative element is basically the discretion of theindividual but

he or she should get each sampradaya'sviews from the respective sampradaya

adherents andfigure things out for himself / herself.It should not be the

business of sampradaya-basedforums to critically discuss comparative issues in

aforum which is not equally represented by adherents ofthe sampradaya whose

views are being placed underscrutiny. There is no option for a

well-representedcounter voice. It is basically akin to heralding one'sown

superiority in one's own backyard based on one'sown frameworks. It does not

present anythingaccurately or neutrally or holistically.Hare Krishnaysr. jai

simmanjakartaDo You

?

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