The current state of our sampradayam.

October 31, 2005

SrI:

Today I went to the Local Venkeshwara temple, run by the PudigE Mutt of the

Madhwa Sampradayam. As a routine, the priests sing songs and they allow the

devotees to sing too. An elderly Iyengar (I don't want to call her a

Srivaishnava) lady sang a wonderful song which was pleasant to the ears, which

to my shock, ended with words glorifying sai baba!!

Becoming distraught, I asked her if she had taken "bharanyasam" as she is born

in a family which is supposed to follow Desika Sampradayam (which they don't as

it is apparent), and she says "no, but I intend to, I have taken samashrayanam

though, but Sri Saibaba is my main guru". I told her, "please consider me as

your grandson when I say please follow ONLY Sri dEsikA the great and nobody

else", although I am born in a Thenkalai family, it still pains me, as in a

larger scheme, we should all follow Ramanuja, and Swami Desikan/Swami MM are

representatives of Him, anyway, the elderly lady got offended!!! And her

daughter was even more upset, let me not get to the details of our

conversation. All I am asking is a vadakalai person to follow HER own

sampradayam!!.

This is the fate of our sampradayam, the fact that pains me the most is NOT MANY

of Our AchAryAs of either school stretch the importance of ananya-bhakti, and

Samashrayanam has become just a mere symbolic affair. Although I have my

disagreements with ISKCON, I have seen the way the Gurus of ISKCON stress the

importance of surrender ONLY to Lord Krishna while decrying demi-god or any

other man-god, god-man etc worship, and in a way they inspire me a lot. Why

can't we do that in our sampradayam?? Whom are we afraid of?? Why can't our

AchAryAs say, "hey!! just worship Lord Sriman nArAyaNA and nobody else", why

simply can't they??

First of all, charity begins at home; all of us who are convinced about the path

of Sri Ramanuja, should STRESS the importance of our SiddhAnthA to all our near

and dear ones, talk to them about importance of ananya bhakti, discourage them

from worshipping anybody but Sriman nArAyANA. Also, learn from the ISKCON

devotees. We should give up coffee/tea, onion and garlic, no questions asked.

If a Russian or a Polish guy can give up everything and try to follow our

sampradayam, why simply can't we?? Are we so shamelessly out-of-control that we

can't give up these mundane addictions?? I for one, firmly believe in this: Even

a little compromise leads to the greatest degeneration, as we can see what is

happening now.

I am not talking about leaving everything and going back to the villages. Lord

Sri Krishna talks repeatedly about doing, nay, excelling in one's duty, but as

an act of sacrifice to the Lord Himself.

The problem is that we are not prepared to give up anything, not prepared to

educate/get educated, but then we cry hoarse about the "degeneration of our

sampradayam", or worse, jump at every chance to get into a "kalai" fight.

Again, I got some mails saying that I insulted DEsika, etc.. No, never. All I am

saying is that only should not blindly make statements without knowing the facts

in-toto. My aim was to attack not the great Sri Desikan, not even the Vadakalai

Sampradayam, but only the author whose words were filled with utter dichotomy,

thinking that he can get away with whatever he says/writes. I would anyday take

the association of a sincere Desika Sampradaya person than an also-ran Thenkalai

Iyengar.

Dasan,

Kidambi Soundararajan.

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October 31, 2005

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha

Dear Sri.Soundararajan swamin,

Kindly accept adiyen's pranams. Adiyen read your mails

with much more interest than most of the mails in this

forum. Swamin's focus and input on our sampradhayam

are much needed boost to elementary level students

like me. However, adiyen beg to differ with you that

our sampradhayam is in a bad state. Adiyen for once

feel confident that our sampradhayam is in a strong

state. However, the 'true membership' has dwindled.

Adiyen wish to present three points.

1. What is our bench mark to evaluate the state of our

sampradhayam?

One belongs to Srivaishnavam if one's objective is

Moksham (eternal bhagavath kainkaryam) and moksham

only. If someone is not with that objective how can we

say that they belong to our sampradhayam? In this

light, the experience swamin had with that lady,

singing about a baba or dhabha, she obviously is NOT

interested in moksham and interested in other

materialistic things. How can we say that she belongs

to our sampradhayam? These 'askthika nasthikas' should

simply be ignored as 'moorkas'. Why do we even

evaluate our sampradhayam based on these people? If

this is our bench mark, yes our sampradhayam is in a

bad state.

It is unneccesary for me to say that no one becomes a

SriVaishnava by birth, whatever is the family

background. After going through the samsaric cycle for

many many births and deaths, through bhaghavatha

sambhandham one gets acharya sambhandham. And

eventually acharya sambhandham leads us to maha

viswasam and finally to Emberuman sambhandham. And all

this happens by His nirhetuka krupai only. Adiyen

would view that lady's state as some one who is in

lower rung of this ladder and pray to Emberuman to

make her move faster. But I am not going to evaluate

our sampradhayam based on her, becuase there are

billions like her.

2. Why are we in the state we are now?

Swamin raised a question that why can’t our acharyas

stress that we should worship ONLY Sriman nArAyaNA and

nobody else. But, it is beyond doubt and with

absolutely no uncertainty that our acharyas have

stressed this point. However, this message is not well

circulated amongst us. That is becuase our

poorvacharyas vyakyanams and exceptional works are in

a state not easily understandable by present

generation. For example, how many of the younger

generation today would even dare to open and read one

page of 'Edu' and try to understand? This is where the

success of ISKCON is obvious. Sri.Prabhupadha made

'all' of their sampradhaya messeges so easily

available in simple english. Adiyen personally know

many many gaudiya vaishnavas follow that sampradhayam

becuase it is presented to them in an easier way.

There is a set of books called ‘Eettin Thamizhakkam’

(meaning Edu in simple Thamizh). These books are

written by a scholar about 30 years before and

published by University of Madras in a set of 10

volumes and provide ‘Edu’ in a simple Thamizh style.

However, this is not available any more. During my

last trip to India, I had to do lot of digging in

University book store to trace some of the volumes of

this book. I found few volumes with total damage lying

in a corner of the room on floor, where as mundane

novels are protected in moisture proof containers.

That is the state of our sampradhayam. So, our focus

must be on bringing in to light these kinds of works

more and more to lime light and strengthening our

foundation. May be even that lady would change.

3. Why are we still arguing about our internal

differences?

Any sampradhayam is bound to have different view

points. As long as the fundamentals and final

objective are the same, these differences in approach

and practice must be viewed in a healthy and positive

way with mutual respect and cooperation. However, even

today in our sampradhayam, I see elders twice my age

from both the schools try to score victory over the

other as if this is a contest. If today’s elders

realize that even after one life time, they could not

dissolve the differences, at least they need not pass

it on to the next generation. May be over a period of

time these differences will die themselves. I don’t

want my grand son or grand daughter to be still

classified as some ‘kalai’ instead of simply

SriVaishnavas.

Swamin, kindly accept adiyen’s apology for any

apacharams. It is not my intention to prove a point or

anything. Adiyen personally feel that if Emberuman

could choose even some one like me to surrender unto

him unconditionally, our sampradhayam is not in any

danger. Even though I am an elementary level student,

I am not young. I am almost 40 (half the well is

crossed) and still in a beginning state. May be that

is the state of our sampradhayam.

Regards

Adiyen

Ramanuja Dasan

Sampath Kumar Padmanaban

Azhwar Emberumanar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

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October 31, 2005

Dear Swamy

Adiyen wish to calrify my thougt process few , I could see that you wish to put

certain hard followed conditions to the human beings , if I am correct , thats

not the way, better way is to tell them whats with Him and try to get into the

reason why she is praying Sai Baba , she is not that much foolish to pray them

, she would have looked for some materialistic return and got it thru them ,

think about the pAsuram "Kama roopam Kondu ElunthalipAn " , its His leela.

What we can make effort is to teach the swaroopam to them , see if you are so

agitated now because you know the swaroopam "Ananya Seshathvam Kazhigy" , not

many people are aware of such things . So in the practice what Adiyen observed

is by putting any rules or regulations you cant change them unless you teach

the swaroopa lakshanam to them .

Let me take your points

>We should give up coffee/tea, onion and garlic, no questions asked. >If a

Russian or a Polish guy can give up everything and try to follow >our

sampradayam, why simply can't we?? Are we so shamelessly >out-of-control that

we can't give up these mundane addictions?? I for >one, firmly believe in this:

Even a little compromise leads to the >greatest degeneration, as we can see what

is happening now.

Why we should give up all these ? if you give up every thing are you sure of

what r u supposed to get , Adiyen feel NO, these are not the upAyam, thats why

our poorvAcharyas never dealt with what is your food habit, what are all the

Vrudhams you should etc , these are pretty ritualistic in nature , to neechan

like me I will think more on those prohibited items rather than Him

Now all the more important is we should try to see why people get into rest of

the demi Gods and how can we address those issues from our side, here I mean

lot of bhAgavada Service rather than Swaroopam etc , pl correct me if I am

wrong

Adiyen

Guna

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 vimalkumar ranganathan wrote :

>SrI:

>

>Today I went to the Local Venkeshwara temple, run by the PudigE Mutt of the

Madhwa Sampradayam. As a routine, the priests sing songs and they allow the

devotees to sing too. An elderly Iyengar (I don't want to call her a

Srivaishnava) lady sang a wonderful song which was pleasant to the ears, which

to my shock, ended with words glorifying sai baba!!

>

>Becoming distraught, I asked her if she had taken "bharanyasam" as she is born