When is Past Karma burned up?

[Guest guest]

When someone is initiated they have received transcendental knowledge and their

past karma is burned up, they must be a bit like a new born baby. Why is it

they still appear and behave the same and even fall down, where has that divine

knowledge gone?

"When someone is initiated they have received transcendental knowledge and their

past karma is burned up, they must be a bit like a new born baby. Why is it they

still appear and behave the same and even fall down, where has that divine

knowledge gone? "

This is often misunderstood. Formality of initiation: ceremony of name giving

and bananas and sesame seeds thrown in fire yajna is not when past Karma is

burned off. This is why Srila Prabhupada states this formality "That is not

very important thing."

761016iv.cha Conversations Prabhupada:

Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break)

....knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for

knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.

Factually, Karma is burned up when the devotee is on the platform of

understanding AND acting in his svarupa, constitutional relationship with

Krsna. The *initiation* referred in this context is of the MADHYAMA

adhikari."(NoI 5) A madhyama-adhikari has received *spiritual* initiation "

This confirms with Antya 4.192 please read below.

Further evidence to support this is(NoI 5) "and has been *fully* engaged by

him(Spiritual master) in the *transcendental loving service* of the Lord." This

confirms with Antya 4.192 please read below.

The mistake is made by devotees when they disregard this SPIRITUAL INITIATION on

the MADHYAMA ADHIKARI. THIS initiation is NOT formality. This is transcendental

knowledge (dvya jnana or DIKSA) Srila Prabhupada is offering this to us all

PROVIDED we come to surrender unto His Divine Grace and chant PURE offenseless

Hare Krishna. The defect is many "devotees" do not want Srila Prabhupada as

diksa guru and therefore reject his diksa.

Kanistha is not fit for transcendental loving service yet-- because even in the

stage of fully qualified brahmana he is subject to contamination in material

mode of goodness. Brahmana has to transcend the material mode of goodness

(sattava) to come to the scientific understanding, see,hear and experience

Krsna. The Vaisnava platform is superior in that he has attained this unalloyed

position of *loving* God (suddha sattva-- pure goodness). Krsna speaks to the

Vaisnava. There is LOVING receprocation *exchange loving mellows*.

NoI 5 In order to intelligently apply the sixfold

loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse, one must select proper

persons with careful discrimination. Srila Rupa Gosvami therefore advises that

we should meet with the Vaisnavas in an appropriate way, according to their

particular status. In this verse he tells us how to deal with three types of

devotees--the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The

kanistha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from

the spiritual master and is trying to chant the holy name of Krsna. One should

respect such a person within his mind as a kanistha-vaisnava. A

madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master

and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the

Lord. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in

devotional service. The uttama-adhikari, or highest devotee, is one who is very

advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikari is not interested in

blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the

realized state of unalloyed Krsna consciousness. According to Srila Rupa

Gosvami, the association and service of such a maha-bhagavata, or perfect

Vaisnava, are most desirable.

 

Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana sei-kale

krsna tare kare atma-sama

SYNONYMS

diksa-kale--at the time of initiation; bhakta--the devotee; kare--does;

atma--of himself; samarpana--full dedication; sei-kale--at that time;

krsna--Lord Krsna; tare--him; kare--makes; atma-sama--as spiritual as Himself.

TRANSLATION

"At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service

of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.

TEXT 193

sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya aprakrta-dehe

tanra carana bhajaya

SYNONYMS

sei deha--that body; kare--makes; tara--his; cit-ananda-maya--full of

transcendental bliss; aprakrta-dehe--in that transcendental body; tanra--His;

carana--feet; bhajaya--worships.

TRANSLATION

"When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the

devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the

Lord.

TEXT 194

martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma

niveditatma vicikirsito me tadamrtatvam

pratipadyamano mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai

SYNONYMS

martyah--the living entity subjected to birth and death; yada--as soon as;

tyakta--giving up; samasta--all; karmah--fruitive activities; nivedita-atma--a

fully surrendered soul; vicikirsitah--desired to act; me--by Me; tada--at that

time; amrtatvam--immortality; pratipadyamanah--attaining; maya--with Me;

atma-bhuyaya--for becoming of a similar nature; ca--also; kalpate--is eligible;

vai--certainly.

TRANSLATION

" 'The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up

all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and

thus acts according to My direction, at that time he reaches the platform of

immortality, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of exchange of loving

mellows with Me.'

PURPORT

This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of

initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, being

in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated on the

transcendental platform. Thus having attained knowledge and the spiritual

platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual body of Krsna. When

one is freed from material connections in this way, his body immediately becomes

spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service. However, Krsna does not accept

anything from a person with a material conception of life. When a devotee no

longer has any desire for material sense gratification, in his spiritual

identity he engages in the service of the Lord, for his dormant spiritual

consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual consciousness makes his body

spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to render service to the Lord. Karmis may

consider the body of a devotee material, but factually it is not, for a devotee

has no conception of material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure

devotee is material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In

this connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami's Brhad-bhagavatamrta

(1.3.45 and 2.3.139).

 

Note: the *transcendental* (above goodness) stage is Uttama thus when one is

acting in his eternal constitutional relationship (svarupa) this is then

UTTAMA adhikari. In contrast Madhyama is the middle stage which enables one

INITIATION (beginning):Leading to UTTAMA into Spritual atmosphere to taste and

exchange loving mellows with Krsna. It is therefore actually the UTTAMA

adhikari(transforming from Madhayama) that relishes loving mellows with Krsna.

This is my understanding, because the words "thus transformed into spiritual

existence" is a good explanation how from Madhyama adhikaris body after

initiation is transformed to render service on the transcendental plane. The

initiation of the Madhyama adhikari is NOT static he moves forward into Uttama

adhakari position after initiation "in his spiritual identity he engages in the

service of the Lord," .

 

"At the time of initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions.

**Therefore, being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is

situated on the transcendental platform.** Thus having attained knowledge and

the spiritual platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual body

of Krsna. When one is freed from material connections in this way, his body

**immediately** becomes spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service."

 

ANTYA 4 TEXT 193

"When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the

devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the

Lord.

Bg 4.19 T Transcendental Knowledge

yasya sarve samarambhah

kama-sankalpa-varjitah jnanagni-dagdha-karmanam

tam ahuh panditam budhah

SYNONYMS

yasya--one whose; sarve--all sorts of; samarambhah--in all attempts;

kama--desire for sense gratification; sankalpa--determination; varjitah--are

devoid of; jnana--of perfect knowledge; agni--fire; dagdha--being burnt by;

karmanam--the performer; tam--him; ahuh--declare; panditam--learned; budhah--of

those who know.

TRANSLATION

One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire

for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive

action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge.

PURPORT

Only a person in full knowledge can understand the activities of a person in

Krsna consciousness. Because the person in Krsna consciousness is devoid of all

kinds of sense-gratificatory propensities, it is to be understood that he has

burned up the reactions of his work by *perfect knowledge of his constitutional

position as the eternal servitor* of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is

actually learned who has attained to such perfection of knowledge. Development

of this knowledge of the eternal servitorship of the Lord is compared to fire.

Such a fire, once kindled, can burn up all kinds of reactions to work.

 

SB 1.2.20 T Divinity and Divine Service

evam prasanna-manaso

bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam

mukta-sangasya jayate

SYNONYMS

evam--thus; prasanna--enlivened; manasah--of the mind; bhagavat-bhakti--the

devotional service of the Lord; yogatah--by contact of; bhagavat--regarding the

Personality of Godhead; tattva--knowledge; vijnanam--scientific;

mukta--liberated; sangasya--of the association; jayate--becomes effective.

TRANSLATION

Thus established in the mode of unalloyed goodness, the man whose mind has

been enlivened by contact with devotional service to the Lord gains positive

scientific knowledge of the Personality of Godhead in the stage of liberation

from all material association.

PURPORT

In the Bhagavad-gita (7.3) it is said that out of many thousands of ordinary

men, one fortunate man endeavors for perfection in life. Mostly men are

conducted by the modes of passion and ignorance, and thus they are engaged

always in lust, desire, hankerings, ignorance and sleep. Out of many such

manlike animals, there is actually a man who knows the responsibility of human

life and thus tries to make life perfect by following the prescribed duties.

And out of many thousands of such persons who have thus attained success in

human life, one may know scientifically about the Personality of Godhead Sri

Krsna. In the same Bhagavad-gita (18.55) it is also said that scientific

knowledge of Sri Krsna is understood only by the process of devotional service

(bhakti-yoga). The very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No

ordinary man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know

scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of human

life is attained when one can understand that he is not the product of matter

but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands that he has nothing to do

with matter, he at once ceases his material hankerings and becomes enlivened as

a spiritual being. This attainment of success is possible when one is above the

modes of passion and ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a

brahmana by qualification. A brahmana is the symbol of sattva-guna, or the mode

of goodness. And others, who are not in the mode of goodness, are either

ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras or less than the sudras. The brahminical stage is

the highest stage of human life because of its good qualities. So one cannot be

a devotee unless one at least qualifies as a brahmana. The devotee is already a

brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. As referred to above, such a

brahmana has to become a Vaisnava in fact to be actually in the transcendental

stage. A pure Vaisnava is a liberated soul and is transcendental even to the

position of a brahmana. In the material stage even a brahmana is also a

conditioned soul because although in the brahminical stage the conception of

Brahman or transcendence is realized, scientific knowledge of the Supreme Lord

is lacking. One has to surpass the brahminical stage and reach the vasudeva

stage to understand the Personality of Godhead Krsna. The science of the

Personality of Godhead is the subject matter for study by the postgraduate

students in the spiritual line. Foolish men, or men with a poor fund of

knowledge, do not understand the Supreme Lord, and they interpret Krsna

according to their respective whims. The fact is, however, that one cannot

understand the science of the Personality of Godhead unless one is freed from

the contamination of the material modes, even up to the stage of a brahmana.

When a qualified brahmana factually becomes a Vaisnava, in the enlivened state

of liberation he can know what is actually the Personality of Godhead.

SB 1.2.21 T Divinity and Divine Service

bhidyate hrdaya-granthis chidyante

sarva-samsayah ksiyante casya karmani

drsta evatmanisvare

SYNONYMS

bhidyate--pierced; hrdaya--heart; granthih--knots; chidyante--cut to pieces;

sarva--all; samsayah--misgivings; ksiyante--terminated; ca--and; asya--his;

karmani--chain of fruitive actions; drste--having seen; eva--certainly;

atmani--unto the self; isvare--dominating.

TRANSLATION

Thus the knot in the heart is pierced, and all misgivings are cut to pieces.

The chain of fruitive actions is terminated when one sees the self as master.

PURPORT

Attaining scientific knowledge of the Personality of Godhead means seeing

one's own self simultaneously. As far as the identity of the living being as

spirit self is concerned, there are a number of speculations and misgivings.

The materialist does not believe in the existence of the spirit self, and

empiric philosophers believe in the impersonal feature of the whole spirit

without individuality of the living beings. But the transcendentalists affirm

that the soul and the Supersoul are two different identities, qualitatively one

but quantitatively different. There are many other theories, but all these

different speculations are at once cleared off as soon as Sri Krsna is realized

in truth by the process of bhakti-yoga. Sri Krsna is like the sun, and the

materialistic speculations about the Absolute Truth are like the darkest

midnight. As soon as the Krsna sun is arisen within one's heart, the darkness

of materialistic speculations about the Absolute Truth and the living beings is

at once cleared off. In the presence of the sun, the darkness cannot stand, and

the relative truths that were hidden within the dense darkness of ignorance

become clearly manifested by the mercy of Krsna, who is residing in everyone's

heart as the Supersoul. In the Bhagavad-gita (10.11) the Lord says that in

order to show special favor to His pure devotees, He personally eradicates the

dense darkness of all misgivings by switching on the light of pure knowledge

within the heart of a devotee. Therefore, because of the Personality of

Godhead's taking charge of illuminating the heart of His devotee, certainly a

devotee, engaged in His service in transcendental love, cannot remain in

darkness. He comes to know everything of the absolute and the relative truths.

The devotee cannot remain in darkness, and because a devotee is enlightened by

the Personality of Godhead, his knowledge is certainly perfect. This is not the

case for those who speculate on the Absolute Truth by dint of their own limited

power of approach. Perfect knowledge is called parampara, or deductive

knowledge coming down from the authority to the submissive aural receiver who

is bona fide by service and surrender. One cannot challenge the authority of

the Supreme and know Him also at the same time. He reserves the right of not

being exposed to such a challenging spirit of an insignificant spark of the

whole, a spark subjected to the control of illusory energy. The devotees are

submissive, and therefore the transcendental knowledge descends from the

Personality of Godhead to Brahma and from Brahma to his sons and disciples in

succession. This process is helped by the Supersoul within such devotees. That

is the perfect way of learning transcendental knowledge. This enlightenment

perfectly enables the devotee to distinguish spirit from matter because the

knot of spirit and matter is untied by the Lord. This knot is called ahankara,

and it falsely obliges a living being to become identified with matter. As soon

as this knot is loosened, therefore, all the clouds of doubt are at once cleared

off. One sees his master and fully engages himself in the transcendental loving

service of the Lord, making a full termination of the chain of fruitive action.

In material existence, a living being creates his own chain of fruitive work and

enjoys the good and bad effects of those actions life after life. But as soon as

he engages himself in the loving service of the Lord, he at once becomes free

from the chain of karma. His actions no longer create any reaction.

Note: the Ritvik system is an arrangement by Srila Prabhupada for the person

to become a neophyte(kanistha adhakari a QUALIFIED brahmana)-- first. And the

neophyte is --a QUALIFIED brahmana. Then advance to become a Vaisnava--under

the instructions of the initiator (Diksa guru) Srila Prabhupada.

 

770214r2.may ConversationsPrabhupada:

Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become

a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.Hari-sauri: No, it's not a

cheap thing.Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become

Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so

many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest

qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is... fall

down.Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas,

Kanistha-adhikari.Prabhupada: Kanistha?Hari-sauri: When one is only on the

platform of neophyte.Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.Hari-sauri:

Varnasrama system is beneficial.Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be

a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari,

means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as

very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.

arcayam eva haraye pujam yah

sraddhayehate na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa

bhaktah prakrtah smrtah

The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the

spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of

Vaisnava.Hari-sauri: No question of?Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.

Note: the main reason for the fall down was the envious attitude towards Srila

Prabhupada (the Vaisnava) : they wanted to imitate him by usurping his His

Divine Grace position to be worshipped as good as God. Power crazy. The

rejection of Srila Prabhupada's July 9th 1977 order of Ritvik system is the

cause of disaster in ISKCON today. The concocted so-called gurus manufactured

by the GBC were envious of Srila Prabhupada's unique position of diksa guru.

Both the GBC and their concocted "gurus" are bereft of real brahmanical

qualities.

Madhya 15.277 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya

Unless one is a fully qualified brahmana, he cannot advance in the spiritual

science. A real brahmana is never envious of Vaisnavas.

ys mahesh